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On March 04 2014 09:42 Derez wrote:How about linking websites without massive spam?
I attempted to find an article with autarky ratings for various nations, but the only one was a pretty technical one that was behind a paywall (I'm a university student, so I have access to it). Quora was the next best thing sadly.
On March 04 2014 09:43 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +Russia could qualify as the most self-sufficient country. It produces sizable quantities of Oil, Coal, Natural Gas, Metals, Wheat, Corn, timber and livestock. It imports automobiles, technology, medicines and fruits. Except for medicines, none of the others are too critical to stall an economy. This is why the erstwhile USSR was able to sustain that long alienating the world markets (foreign trade contributed to less than 4% of Soviet's GDP). Turning Russia back to the days of the USSR? I actually lived in those times, it would be pretty effective since Putin's premise is that he is created a great modern, european power. Not a neo-Empire. Consumer goods must flow.
It would suck, yes. Most imports in Russia are considered luxuries though (far as I understand), and Russia does have domestic industries producing car, tech, medicine and fruits. While capacity and quality may be issues, Russia is still capable of sustaining itself without trade past the super short term albeit most will be a few years outdated.
On March 04 2014 09:49 mahrgell wrote:Well, it would not have the same effect as an embargo on North Korea, surely... But the way the economy works right now, the blow would still be fatal. Self sufficiency isn't enough in modern economics. Even the damage to the the rest of the world would be big. Surely, Russia is not as crucial to the global economy as China, but still...
Yes we have a very interconnected economy. However, Russia is still primarily a raw materials exporter-- gas, wood, etc. account for a vast majority. They have some heavy industry (military, but to those politically iffy nations who can't afford/ can't buy Western stuff) and civilian stuff (but seriously, what's the last time you bought something that said Made in Russia?). It would suck if we lost the energy exports and such, but I think we'd be ok.
Energy prices would go up in Europe, it would suck though. Not sure about how dependent Europe is on Russian oil and gas.
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On March 04 2014 09:53 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 09:34 TJ31 wrote:On March 04 2014 09:17 BronzeKnee wrote:
The US invasion was terrible and a joke. I'm ashamed the US did that and I stood against it. Still, it doesn't mean Russia can do this.
That's the thing though. USA does the same stuff = everyone complain for a bit (except their allies, like UK) and that's it. Russia does (or just planning to, in this case) this = massive shitstorm. I don't support either one, but I kinda understand Russia's position as well. At least Ukraine is a neighbour country and they don't want to see another NATO base there. While US' excuse to invade Iraq was/is very questionable. Also it would be naive to expect Russia play a fair game in the world of double standards. If other countries allowed to do that, so is Russia. It's kinda sad actually. All those small countries are nothing, but a playgrounds for the big ones. Also it's clear, that all those international laws etc just don't work, big "players' do what they want whenever they want. I wish people would read up more thoroughly, and note the substantial differences between what the us has done and what Russia is doing. Yes, US has done a lot of bad stuff; but there're still a number of very significant differences which people ignore, or they're just spouting off with little understanding of the situation.
Not true, america pretty much did the same stuff russia does (read: not USSR). Just not to their direct neighbors. Not that it would matter in this discussion, anyway.
Fact of the matter is though, sanctions won't work and won't happen. The US may sanctionize as they please, most countries in the EU can't afford to. And they pretty much know it, see the UK paper cited earlier. There might be light visa bans or smth, like a pat on the wrist, but that's it.
And to be honest, what else to expect. It sucks for the ukraine, really bad - but you won't get the support needed for an intervention/sanctions etc in european countries anyway. We're war-tired, the population doesn't want to deal with foreign stuff, and certainly does not want to pay the price coming with sanctions/interventions (economy nosediving etc). And who could blame them, to be honest.
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On March 04 2014 09:45 BronzeKnee wrote:
Condemnation doesn't mean support.
Condemnation is what Poland got from Britian when Germany invaded. Did em no good. Too bad Britain and France promised support.
Stop it with your fucked up version of historical events. At the moment of the invasion of Poland, Britian and France declared war on Germany. The Soviet Union also invaded Poland as well and in the aftermath had full control of Poland. There was literally nothing the British or the French can do to counter Soviet military power at the end of WW2. These are historical facts; what exactly is your motivation for repeatedly trying to propogate your own version of history?
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On March 04 2014 10:02 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 09:53 zlefin wrote:On March 04 2014 09:34 TJ31 wrote:On March 04 2014 09:17 BronzeKnee wrote:
The US invasion was terrible and a joke. I'm ashamed the US did that and I stood against it. Still, it doesn't mean Russia can do this.
That's the thing though. USA does the same stuff = everyone complain for a bit (except their allies, like UK) and that's it. Russia does (or just planning to, in this case) this = massive shitstorm. I don't support either one, but I kinda understand Russia's position as well. At least Ukraine is a neighbour country and they don't want to see another NATO base there. While US' excuse to invade Iraq was/is very questionable. Also it would be naive to expect Russia play a fair game in the world of double standards. If other countries allowed to do that, so is Russia. It's kinda sad actually. All those small countries are nothing, but a playgrounds for the big ones. Also it's clear, that all those international laws etc just don't work, big "players' do what they want whenever they want. I wish people would read up more thoroughly, and note the substantial differences between what the us has done and what Russia is doing. Yes, US has done a lot of bad stuff; but there're still a number of very significant differences which people ignore, or they're just spouting off with little understanding of the situation. Not true, america pretty much did the same stuff russia does (read: not USSR). Just not to their direct neighbors. Not that it would matter in this discussion, anyway. Fact of the matter is though, sanctions won't work and won't happen. The US may sanctionize as they please, most countries in the EU can't afford to. And they pretty much know it, see the UK paper cited earlier. There might be light visa bans or smth, like a pat on the wrist, but that's it. And to be honest, what else to expect. It sucks for the ukraine, really bad - but you won't get the support needed for an intervention/sanctions etc in european countries anyway. We're war-tired, the population doesn't want to deal with foreign stuff, and certainly does not want to pay the price coming with sanctions/interventions (economy nosediving etc). And who could blame them, to be honest.
I think most European countries would go along with sanctions eventually. Sure, it would suck for Germany that relies on Russian gas exports. But opposing Russian expansionalism is a matter of life and death for the Baltic states and Poland.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 04 2014 10:00 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 09:42 Derez wrote:How about linking websites without massive spam? I attempted to find an article with autarky ratings for various nations, but the only one was a pretty technical one that was behind a paywall (I'm a university student, so I have access to it). Quora was the next best thing sadly. Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 09:43 Sub40APM wrote:Russia could qualify as the most self-sufficient country. It produces sizable quantities of Oil, Coal, Natural Gas, Metals, Wheat, Corn, timber and livestock. It imports automobiles, technology, medicines and fruits. Except for medicines, none of the others are too critical to stall an economy. This is why the erstwhile USSR was able to sustain that long alienating the world markets (foreign trade contributed to less than 4% of Soviet's GDP). Turning Russia back to the days of the USSR? I actually lived in those times, it would be pretty effective since Putin's premise is that he is created a great modern, european power. Not a neo-Empire. Consumer goods must flow. It would suck, yes. Most imports in Russia are considered luxuries though (far as I understand), and Russia does have domestic industries producing car, tech, medicine and fruits. While capacity and quality may be issues, Russia is still capable of sustaining itself without trade past the super short term albeit most will be a few years outdated. Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 09:49 mahrgell wrote:Well, it would not have the same effect as an embargo on North Korea, surely... But the way the economy works right now, the blow would still be fatal. Self sufficiency isn't enough in modern economics. Even the damage to the the rest of the world would be big. Surely, Russia is not as crucial to the global economy as China, but still... Yes we have a very interconnected economy. However, Russia is still primarily a raw materials exporter-- gas, wood, etc. account for a vast majority. They have some heavy industry (military, but to those politically iffy nations who can't afford/ can't buy Western stuff) and civilian stuff (but seriously, what's the last time you bought something that said Made in Russia?). It would suck if we lost the energy exports and such, but I think we'd be ok. Energy prices would go up in Europe, it would suck though. Not sure about how dependent Europe is on Russian oil and gas.
Here they keep talking about how potentional sanctions/a war would beneift us because of the prices on our oil & gas increasing. Just like with the sanctions on Iran the oil prices increased and because of that the country earned more money.
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On March 04 2014 10:02 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 09:53 zlefin wrote:On March 04 2014 09:34 TJ31 wrote:On March 04 2014 09:17 BronzeKnee wrote:
The US invasion was terrible and a joke. I'm ashamed the US did that and I stood against it. Still, it doesn't mean Russia can do this.
That's the thing though. USA does the same stuff = everyone complain for a bit (except their allies, like UK) and that's it. Russia does (or just planning to, in this case) this = massive shitstorm. I don't support either one, but I kinda understand Russia's position as well. At least Ukraine is a neighbour country and they don't want to see another NATO base there. While US' excuse to invade Iraq was/is very questionable. Also it would be naive to expect Russia play a fair game in the world of double standards. If other countries allowed to do that, so is Russia. It's kinda sad actually. All those small countries are nothing, but a playgrounds for the big ones. Also it's clear, that all those international laws etc just don't work, big "players' do what they want whenever they want. I wish people would read up more thoroughly, and note the substantial differences between what the us has done and what Russia is doing. Yes, US has done a lot of bad stuff; but there're still a number of very significant differences which people ignore, or they're just spouting off with little understanding of the situation. Not true, america pretty much did the same stuff russia does (read: not USSR). Just not to their direct neighbors. Not that it would matter in this discussion, anyway. Fact of the matter is though, sanctions won't work and won't happen. The US may sanctionize as they please, most countries in the EU can't afford to. And they pretty much know it, see the UK paper cited earlier. There might be light visa bans or smth, like a pat on the wrist, but that's it. And to be honest, what else to expect. It sucks for the ukraine, really bad - but you won't get the support needed for an intervention/sanctions etc in european countries anyway. We're war-tired, the population doesn't want to deal with foreign stuff, and certainly does not want to pay the price coming with sanctions/interventions (economy nosediving etc). And who could blame them, to be honest.
Factually wrong, so no. For one, America spent far more time trying to get support for actions than Russia did here; other stuff as well, not gonna argue further, as I'm trying to work on not correcting all the people wrong on the internet, and you are.
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On March 04 2014 10:11 hypercube wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 10:02 m4ini wrote:On March 04 2014 09:53 zlefin wrote:On March 04 2014 09:34 TJ31 wrote:On March 04 2014 09:17 BronzeKnee wrote:
The US invasion was terrible and a joke. I'm ashamed the US did that and I stood against it. Still, it doesn't mean Russia can do this.
That's the thing though. USA does the same stuff = everyone complain for a bit (except their allies, like UK) and that's it. Russia does (or just planning to, in this case) this = massive shitstorm. I don't support either one, but I kinda understand Russia's position as well. At least Ukraine is a neighbour country and they don't want to see another NATO base there. While US' excuse to invade Iraq was/is very questionable. Also it would be naive to expect Russia play a fair game in the world of double standards. If other countries allowed to do that, so is Russia. It's kinda sad actually. All those small countries are nothing, but a playgrounds for the big ones. Also it's clear, that all those international laws etc just don't work, big "players' do what they want whenever they want. I wish people would read up more thoroughly, and note the substantial differences between what the us has done and what Russia is doing. Yes, US has done a lot of bad stuff; but there're still a number of very significant differences which people ignore, or they're just spouting off with little understanding of the situation. Not true, america pretty much did the same stuff russia does (read: not USSR). Just not to their direct neighbors. Not that it would matter in this discussion, anyway. Fact of the matter is though, sanctions won't work and won't happen. The US may sanctionize as they please, most countries in the EU can't afford to. And they pretty much know it, see the UK paper cited earlier. There might be light visa bans or smth, like a pat on the wrist, but that's it. And to be honest, what else to expect. It sucks for the ukraine, really bad - but you won't get the support needed for an intervention/sanctions etc in european countries anyway. We're war-tired, the population doesn't want to deal with foreign stuff, and certainly does not want to pay the price coming with sanctions/interventions (economy nosediving etc). And who could blame them, to be honest. I think most European countries would go along with sanctions eventually. Sure, it would suck for Germany that relies on Russian gas exports. But opposing Russian expansionalism is a matter of life and death for the Baltic states and Poland.
Tradingsanctions are economical suicide in the general european situation. They won't happen. Even the UK, which were the first to threaten russia with sanctions and didn't hold back verbally, already bailed on that idea.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On March 04 2014 10:00 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 09:42 Derez wrote:How about linking websites without massive spam? I attempted to find an article with autarky ratings for various nations, but the only one was a pretty technical one that was behind a paywall (I'm a university student, so I have access to it). Quora was the next best thing sadly. Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 09:43 Sub40APM wrote:Russia could qualify as the most self-sufficient country. It produces sizable quantities of Oil, Coal, Natural Gas, Metals, Wheat, Corn, timber and livestock. It imports automobiles, technology, medicines and fruits. Except for medicines, none of the others are too critical to stall an economy. This is why the erstwhile USSR was able to sustain that long alienating the world markets (foreign trade contributed to less than 4% of Soviet's GDP). Turning Russia back to the days of the USSR? I actually lived in those times, it would be pretty effective since Putin's premise is that he is created a great modern, european power. Not a neo-Empire. Consumer goods must flow. It would suck, yes. Most imports in Russia are considered luxuries though (far as I understand), and Russia does have domestic industries producing car, tech, medicine and fruits. While capacity and quality may be issues, Russia is still capable of sustaining itself without trade past the super short term albeit most will be a few years outdated. Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 09:49 mahrgell wrote:Well, it would not have the same effect as an embargo on North Korea, surely... But the way the economy works right now, the blow would still be fatal. Self sufficiency isn't enough in modern economics. Even the damage to the the rest of the world would be big. Surely, Russia is not as crucial to the global economy as China, but still... Yes we have a very interconnected economy. However, Russia is still primarily a raw materials exporter-- gas, wood, etc. account for a vast majority. They have some heavy industry (military, but to those politically iffy nations who can't afford/ can't buy Western stuff) and civilian stuff (but seriously, what's the last time you bought something that said Made in Russia?). It would suck if we lost the energy exports and such, but I think we'd be ok. Energy prices would go up in Europe, it would suck though. Not sure about how dependent Europe is on Russian oil and gas.
Europe will just die if there is really cold times. Noone there will go for it just because of Ukraine.
Basically, if we speak about gas for example, only Norway and Denmark afaik don't import gas from Russia. That's something, right?
I really hope that everything will be ok. Highly doubt that there will be some kind of "war", especially after last UN's session.
Ukranian ambassador was just lol to be honest, hope my Ukranian friends won't be hurt.
Going to go to Ukraine this week though, thank God i have less things to do this month, so at least i can check my friends and other stuff.
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On March 04 2014 10:14 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 10:02 m4ini wrote:On March 04 2014 09:53 zlefin wrote:On March 04 2014 09:34 TJ31 wrote:On March 04 2014 09:17 BronzeKnee wrote:
The US invasion was terrible and a joke. I'm ashamed the US did that and I stood against it. Still, it doesn't mean Russia can do this.
That's the thing though. USA does the same stuff = everyone complain for a bit (except their allies, like UK) and that's it. Russia does (or just planning to, in this case) this = massive shitstorm. I don't support either one, but I kinda understand Russia's position as well. At least Ukraine is a neighbour country and they don't want to see another NATO base there. While US' excuse to invade Iraq was/is very questionable. Also it would be naive to expect Russia play a fair game in the world of double standards. If other countries allowed to do that, so is Russia. It's kinda sad actually. All those small countries are nothing, but a playgrounds for the big ones. Also it's clear, that all those international laws etc just don't work, big "players' do what they want whenever they want. I wish people would read up more thoroughly, and note the substantial differences between what the us has done and what Russia is doing. Yes, US has done a lot of bad stuff; but there're still a number of very significant differences which people ignore, or they're just spouting off with little understanding of the situation. Not true, america pretty much did the same stuff russia does (read: not USSR). Just not to their direct neighbors. Not that it would matter in this discussion, anyway. Fact of the matter is though, sanctions won't work and won't happen. The US may sanctionize as they please, most countries in the EU can't afford to. And they pretty much know it, see the UK paper cited earlier. There might be light visa bans or smth, like a pat on the wrist, but that's it. And to be honest, what else to expect. It sucks for the ukraine, really bad - but you won't get the support needed for an intervention/sanctions etc in european countries anyway. We're war-tired, the population doesn't want to deal with foreign stuff, and certainly does not want to pay the price coming with sanctions/interventions (economy nosediving etc). And who could blame them, to be honest. Factually wrong, so no. For one, America spent far more time trying to get support for actions than Russia did here; other stuff as well, not gonna argue further, as I'm trying to work on not correcting all the people wrong on the internet, and you are.
Because they need to, whereas russia does not. Not to mention that pointing on nonexistant WoMD is not what i call "getting support", it's what i call lying and forging reasons to invade a country. Pretty much what russia does right now.
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On March 04 2014 09:59 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 09:49 mahrgell wrote:Well, it would not have the same effect as an embargo on North Korea, surely... But the way the economy works right now, the blow would still be fatal. Self sufficiency isn't enough in modern economics. Even the damage to the the rest of the world would be big. Surely, Russia is not as crucial to the global economy as China, but still... Yeah, well, Russia doesn't have extreme overpopulation and wage slavery that produces goods for cheaper than anywhere else. But to try to intensely hurt Russia or do something that would severely piss them off would not be without extreme reprisals of some sort. I'd hate to imagine what they would do. Even without any reaction from Russia, the global economy would be hard-hit anyways. EDIT: Also what mcc said below.
Actually there is something about Russia that can hurt them really bad. It is a huge country with all kinds of raw materials and everything, but the one thing that they lack is food. USSR had problems feeding themselves during the cold war even with Ukraine (which was called Russia's granary) part of it and many countries from the soviet block exported food for them. China is hardly an option, because they have food problems too.
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Norway28918 Posts
On March 04 2014 09:17 BronzeKnee wrote:
The US invasion was terrible and a joke. I'm ashamed the US did that and I stood against it. Still, it doesn't mean Russia can do this.
The point is that the same thing that happened then is what happens now. Almost everyone outside the US was opposed to the invasion of Iraq. US still followed through, no consequences, because they're so strong. In fact many European countries went directly against the will of their population and supported the invasion. Russia, same thing, war against Russia is not an option, and then we cannot make empty threats. Even North Korea gets away with their insanity because actual war is actually so incredibly terrible - and the atrocities felt by the North Korean people dwarf all possible non-war scenarios for non-Russian Crimeans.
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On March 04 2014 10:22 Pr0wler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 09:49 mahrgell wrote:Well, it would not have the same effect as an embargo on North Korea, surely... But the way the economy works right now, the blow would still be fatal. Self sufficiency isn't enough in modern economics. Even the damage to the the rest of the world would be big. Surely, Russia is not as crucial to the global economy as China, but still... Yeah, well, Russia doesn't have extreme overpopulation and wage slavery that produces goods for cheaper than anywhere else. But to try to intensely hurt Russia or do something that would severely piss them off would not be without extreme reprisals of some sort. I'd hate to imagine what they would do. Even without any reaction from Russia, the global economy would be hard-hit anyways. EDIT: Also what mcc said below. Actually there is something about Russia that can hurt them really bad. It is a huge country with all kinds of raw materials and everything, but the one thing that they lack is food. USSR had problems feeding themselves during the cold war even with Ukraine (which was called Russia's granary) part of it and many countries from the soviet block exported food for them. China is hardly an option, because they have food problems too.
Starving down countries is not really an option usually 
Even North Korea receives food shipments (some paid, some for free)
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On March 04 2014 10:22 Pr0wler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 09:49 mahrgell wrote:Well, it would not have the same effect as an embargo on North Korea, surely... But the way the economy works right now, the blow would still be fatal. Self sufficiency isn't enough in modern economics. Even the damage to the the rest of the world would be big. Surely, Russia is not as crucial to the global economy as China, but still... Yeah, well, Russia doesn't have extreme overpopulation and wage slavery that produces goods for cheaper than anywhere else. But to try to intensely hurt Russia or do something that would severely piss them off would not be without extreme reprisals of some sort. I'd hate to imagine what they would do. Even without any reaction from Russia, the global economy would be hard-hit anyways. EDIT: Also what mcc said below. Actually there is something about Russia that can hurt them really bad. It is a huge country with all kinds of raw materials and everything, but the one thing that they lack is food. USSR had problems feeding themselves during the cold war even with Ukraine (which was called Russia's granary) part of it and many countries from the soviet block exported food for them. China is hardly an option, because they have food problems too.
To be honest, last few years our agriculture is only rising, thank God, weather is decent since 2010.
And in USSR time we could easily evade this kind of problems if collective farms did work for country and not just for honors.
Because trying to grow watermelons and corn on soil which should be used for potatoes, let's say and using soil for potatoes just to grow corn is ridiculous.
And i could miss something in this thread because hadn't watched it close - was there at least one guy who knows that Russia is able to have 25000 troops in Crimea because of 1994 Budapest's Memorandum and now there are only 16000?
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The point is that the same thing happened then as what happens now. Almost everyone outside the US was opposed to the invasion of Iraq. US still followed through, no consequences, because they're so strong. In fact many European countries went directly against the will of their population and supported the invasion. Russia, same thing, war against Russia is not an option, and then we cannot make empty threats. Even North Korea gets away with their insanity because actual war is actually so incredibly terrible - and the atrocities felt by the North Korean people dwarf all possible non-war scenarios for non-Russian Crimeans.
Not to mention, actively mocking france and germany for their stubborn opposition to the war.
Drone, can i PM you regarding an account-problem, or where do i have to go? 
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On March 04 2014 10:29 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 10:22 Pr0wler wrote:On March 04 2014 09:49 mahrgell wrote:Well, it would not have the same effect as an embargo on North Korea, surely... But the way the economy works right now, the blow would still be fatal. Self sufficiency isn't enough in modern economics. Even the damage to the the rest of the world would be big. Surely, Russia is not as crucial to the global economy as China, but still... Yeah, well, Russia doesn't have extreme overpopulation and wage slavery that produces goods for cheaper than anywhere else. But to try to intensely hurt Russia or do something that would severely piss them off would not be without extreme reprisals of some sort. I'd hate to imagine what they would do. Even without any reaction from Russia, the global economy would be hard-hit anyways. EDIT: Also what mcc said below. Actually there is something about Russia that can hurt them really bad. It is a huge country with all kinds of raw materials and everything, but the one thing that they lack is food. USSR had problems feeding themselves during the cold war even with Ukraine (which was called Russia's granary) part of it and many countries from the soviet block exported food for them. China is hardly an option, because they have food problems too. And i could miss something in this thread because hadn't watched it close - was there at least one guy who knows that Russia is able to have 25000 troops in Crimea because of 1994 Budapest's Memorandum and now there are only 16000?
The number of troops was not defined by the Budapest memorandum, but by the leasing pact of the Russian military bases for the Black Sea Fleet. And yes, while the number of 25.000 is true, it also says ' inside the Russian base'
And not everywhere, occupying government buildings, Ukrainian bases, ports and ferries...
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I just read the article. It only analyses the effect of the current situation on gas prices, and if the Ukranian pipeline was shut down, not an analysis of a situation if Russia's energy suuplies were cut off entirely.
The article can be summed up as thus: Reassurance that Gazprom will keep the gas flowing. Don't worry about freezing in winter, it's March right now.
Poor journalism in this case, almost tabloid. Disappointed by the Guardian in this case, they shouldn't post this drivel and carry on their excellent reporting of events insted.
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On March 04 2014 10:22 Pr0wler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 09:59 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On March 04 2014 09:49 mahrgell wrote:Well, it would not have the same effect as an embargo on North Korea, surely... But the way the economy works right now, the blow would still be fatal. Self sufficiency isn't enough in modern economics. Even the damage to the the rest of the world would be big. Surely, Russia is not as crucial to the global economy as China, but still... Yeah, well, Russia doesn't have extreme overpopulation and wage slavery that produces goods for cheaper than anywhere else. But to try to intensely hurt Russia or do something that would severely piss them off would not be without extreme reprisals of some sort. I'd hate to imagine what they would do. Even without any reaction from Russia, the global economy would be hard-hit anyways. EDIT: Also what mcc said below. Actually there is something about Russia that can hurt them really bad. It is a huge country with all kinds of raw materials and everything, but the one thing that they lack is food. USSR had problems feeding themselves during the cold war even with Ukraine (which was called Russia's granary) part of it and many countries from the soviet block exported food for them. China is hardly an option, because they have food problems too.
In the Soviet era, the main problem was huge mismanagement and disastrous collectivism. Does Russia's agriculture have these issues today? It appears things have improved from the Soviet era and 1990s, at least.
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On March 04 2014 10:24 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 09:17 BronzeKnee wrote:
The US invasion was terrible and a joke. I'm ashamed the US did that and I stood against it. Still, it doesn't mean Russia can do this.
The point is that the same thing happened then as what happens now. Almost everyone outside the US was opposed to the invasion of Iraq. US still followed through, no consequences, because they're so strong. In fact many European countries went directly against the will of their population and supported the invasion. Russia, same thing, war against Russia is not an option, and then we cannot make empty threats. Even North Korea gets away with their insanity because actual war is actually so incredibly terrible - and the atrocities felt by the North Korean people dwarf all possible non-war scenarios for non-Russian Crimeans.
What was impossible against the USSR might not be against RU. Push Russia for another month and the price of bread in Russia won't be affordable for the average farmer anymore. Let's fuck them up that way.
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EPT
