|
|
On March 04 2014 08:00 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 03:43 Sub40APM wrote:On March 04 2014 03:40 Saumure wrote:On March 04 2014 03:20 Sub40APM wrote:On March 04 2014 03:16 Saumure wrote:lol, do you really think Russia would invade Poland or something? Putin blocked the invasion of Syria (and what would have followed) and nobody finds it strange that another riot escalates next to russia immediatly after that?  Its all a Western plot, I knew it. Democracy always has such a dirty Western bias and must be prevented at all costs. Please, tell me more about how you brought democracy to Iraq, Afghanistan and Lybia. How about Poland, Czehia, Slovakia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia instead?
And tell me how is democracy working out for you? Every x years (don't know where you live), you get the chance to vote for one out of two parties. Both will do basically the same thing, except for a couple of unimportant issues. You really don't get a say about anyting.
And however shitty it is, its still better than the one party, one tsar state built by Russians. Oh, now I understand Rubio's words, already history is being rewritten and we were given democracy by the West. We were just standing there not knowing what to do and good guys came and taught us democracy, because we never knew such a thing.
You knew it. Then you lost it to the Germans and the Russians. And the Americans removed first the one then the other for you. One took much longer but your own attempt, like all small but proud democratic countries in the face of tanks, stalled.
|
On March 04 2014 08:01 HellRoxYa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 07:53 BronzeKnee wrote:On March 04 2014 07:48 m4ini wrote:On March 04 2014 07:47 BronzeKnee wrote:On March 04 2014 07:46 Ghanburighan wrote:
Please take the talk on military weaponry to some other thread. Yes, because discussing military weaponry has nothing to do with a military conflict. All I've seen you do is sit here and call people out for speaking out about things you don't want to talk about it. You're posts are terrible. It's not a military conflict though, he's right in that regard. For now, it's all politics. It isn't? The military isn't involved? Russian troops aren't in Ukraine? While there isn't fighting currently taking place, Russia has openly told Ukrainian troops to leave Crimea or face a "storm." Military weaponry is tied to this because the armies of two powerful countries are involved with this political situation! On March 04 2014 07:50 r.Evo wrote:On March 04 2014 07:47 BronzeKnee wrote:On March 04 2014 07:46 Ghanburighan wrote:
Please take the talk on military weaponry to some other thread. Yes, because discussing military weaponry has nothing to do with a military conflict. All I've seen you do is sit here and call people out for speaking out about things you don't want to talk about it. You're posts are terrible. Can you stop bitching at someone who actually provides content to the topic at hand and just posted summaries for the entire UNSC council? Only if he stops attacking me for posting too. This is a forum, a place to talk. He alone doesn't get to decide what is important, and I haven't criticized anything he has written up until I said that. So let's leave each other alone. Deal? Done. I'm so confused. You, BronzeKnee, who spoke so dearly of this being the start of a new great war, compairing it to the times before WW2 think that this is a military conflict? Are you to say that when Chamberlain backed down some 80 years ago he was in a military conflict? You have to be consistent here. For now it is all political postering. Yes, it could turn in to a very real conflict, but just like the cold war wasn't a hot war, this isn't a hot war. Rather it's a war of opinions and standings. Russia is hoping to gain, both Crimea and geopolitical power. The west wants the status quo. But please, continue. You're highly amusing.
I never said it was the start of a great war, but feel free to put words into my mouth. I simply stated there similarities between today and the past, and we should learn from them.
Also, this political posturing involves in the military. The military is being used a political tool here just it was "some 80 years ago", and it is important to gauge the strength of the military, since it is indeed a political tool. One important gauge of military strength is the equipment the military uses. That is why that discussion is important and related.
The military and politics are totally separate, but rather interconnected. You use politics to try and get what you want, and if you can't you use your military to take it. The threat of force is often enough for you to get what you want politically, so the military is an important part of politics.
See, you can even from me, a dummy.
|
On March 04 2014 03:50 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 03:49 Kamille wrote:
David Chamberlain's government has already decided for the EU. Confirmed: Anyone leading Great Britain with the last name Chamberlain has no backbone.
European leaders are doing exactly what their populations want from them, which definitely is not a war. Democracy in action. US will do exactly the same. Few warmongering fanatics that never experienced war, yet would love to plunge the continent in it are just pathetic.
|
On March 04 2014 08:06 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 03:50 BronzeKnee wrote:Confirmed: Anyone leading Great Britain with the last name Chamberlain has no backbone. European leaders are doing exactly what their populations want from them, which definitely is not a war. Democracy in action. US will do exactly the same. Few warmongering fanatics that never experienced war, yet would love to plunge the continent in it are just pathetic.
Something tells me that the people in England didn't want to get bombed every night either.
I don't want war, but sometimes you go to war to avoid a worse war. The politics of avoidance of war is why WW2 was so terrible. It didn't have to be that way.
Letting Putin just take Crimea is a tragedy for those in Crimea and Ukraine who don't want it. And it's wrong.
|
At the same time, the speaker of Russia’s lower house of Parliament, Sergei Y. Naryshkin, said that Russia might not need to dispatch additional forces to Crimea or other parts of Ukraine, as the upper house authorized on Saturday at Mr. Putin’s request. In an interview on the television network Rossiya 24, Mr. Naryshkin said there remained hope for a political resolution.
“My colleagues and I do not even want to say the word war,” he said.
|
On March 04 2014 08:02 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +As the Italian blogger Alberto Nardelli and the Reuters Rome correspondent Naomi O’Leary report on Twitter, Silvio Berlusconi’s Forza Italia party suggested a way out of the crisis in Ukraine on Monday: send Italy’s former prime minister to Moscow to negotiate a deal with his old friend Vladimir V. Putin. Forza Italia have called on #Italy’s PM Matteo Renzi to send Silvio Berlusconi to negotiate with Russian President Vladimir Putin. — Alberto Nardelli (@AlbertoNardelli) 3 Mar 14 Forza Italia party newspaper demands leader Silvio Berlusconi be sent to negotiate with Putin http://t.co/Oh4FEsTERh— Naomi O’Leary (@NaomiOhReally) 3 Mar 14
LOL. I guess they are on the same level of power crasiness so it just might work.
|
Mr. Lavrov said ultranationalists in Ukraine had threatened the lives and religion of the entire Russian-speaking population, and added that “new provocations are being committed,” including against Russia’s Black Sea Fleet, which is based in Crimea.
...wait what? the Nazi thing has been since day one...but religion? what?
|
23:11: In Crimea, Ukrainian troops remain blocked by Russian troops at their military bases. Here, family members and friends of the Ukrainian soldiers form a "human chain" in from of the Belbek base, anticipating a possible attack.
|
On March 04 2014 08:11 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +Mr. Lavrov said ultranationalists in Ukraine had threatened the lives and religion of the entire Russian-speaking population, and added that “new provocations are being committed,” including against Russia’s Black Sea Fleet, which is based in Crimea. ...wait what? the Nazi thing has been since day one...but religion? what?
They claimed that a specific church was attacked by euromaidan protesters while in reality the priests that worked there told reporters that euromaidan were just guarding the place standing at a distance outside.
|
On March 04 2014 07:53 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 07:48 m4ini wrote:On March 04 2014 07:47 BronzeKnee wrote:On March 04 2014 07:46 Ghanburighan wrote:
Please take the talk on military weaponry to some other thread. Yes, because discussing military weaponry has nothing to do with a military conflict. All I've seen you do is sit here and call people out for speaking out about things you don't want to talk about it. You're posts are terrible. It's not a military conflict though, he's right in that regard. For now, it's all politics. It isn't? The military isn't involved? Russian troops aren't in Ukraine? While there isn't fighting currently taking place, Russia has openly told Ukrainian troops to leave Crimea or face a "storm." Military weaponry is tied to this because the armies of two powerful countries are involved with this political situation! Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 07:50 r.Evo wrote:On March 04 2014 07:47 BronzeKnee wrote:On March 04 2014 07:46 Ghanburighan wrote:
Please take the talk on military weaponry to some other thread. Yes, because discussing military weaponry has nothing to do with a military conflict. All I've seen you do is sit here and call people out for speaking out about things you don't want to talk about it. You're posts are terrible. Can you stop bitching at someone who actually provides content to the topic at hand and just posted summaries for the entire UNSC council? Only if he stops attacking me for posting too. This is a forum, a place to talk. He alone doesn't get to decide what is important, and I haven't criticized anything he has written up until I said that. So let's leave each other alone. Deal? Done.
he is right. This is not the thread to discuss tanks.
|
get the fuck out with micromanaging the thread.
i was enjoying the discussion on military strength.
it's relevant and interesting. go judicator.
|
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/03/ukraine-crisis-us-europe-putin-crimea
But at an emergency meeting in Brussels the foreign ministers of Germany, France, Italy and Spain resisted calls for trade sanctions, instead limiting discussion to freezing long-running talks with Russia on visa liberalisation that would have made it easier for Russians to visit Europe. Washington is also threatening to kick Russia out of the G8 group of leading economies, but Berlin opposes this.
Britain's attempts to ensure any EU action against Russia over Ukraine would exempt the City of London were embarrassingly revealed when a secret government document detailing the plan was photographed in Downing Street.
Senior Russian government figures insisted they wanted to avoid a war in Ukraine, but also demanded a new and "more inclusive" government in Kiev and that the policies of the country would have to take account of Russian interests.
|
On March 04 2014 08:06 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 03:50 BronzeKnee wrote:Confirmed: Anyone leading Great Britain with the last name Chamberlain has no backbone. European leaders are doing exactly what their populations want from them, which definitely is not a war. Democracy in action. US will do exactly the same. Few warmongering fanatics that never experienced war, yet would love to plunge the continent in it are just pathetic.
Right, that's why all kinds of concessions need to be made to local dictators.
|
New Ukrainian FM appeared on twitter:
|
On March 04 2014 08:27 Cheerio wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 08:06 mcc wrote:On March 04 2014 03:50 BronzeKnee wrote:Confirmed: Anyone leading Great Britain with the last name Chamberlain has no backbone. European leaders are doing exactly what their populations want from them, which definitely is not a war. Democracy in action. US will do exactly the same. Few warmongering fanatics that never experienced war, yet would love to plunge the continent in it are just pathetic. Right, that's why all kinds of concessions need to be made to local dictators.
I think it is for the better of Ukraine, if there is no war between Europe and Russia  So better be thankful, that not everyone on the world is that triggerhappy
|
On March 04 2014 08:27 Cheerio wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 08:06 mcc wrote:On March 04 2014 03:50 BronzeKnee wrote:Confirmed: Anyone leading Great Britain with the last name Chamberlain has no backbone. European leaders are doing exactly what their populations want from them, which definitely is not a war. Democracy in action. US will do exactly the same. Few warmongering fanatics that never experienced war, yet would love to plunge the continent in it are just pathetic. Right, that's why all kinds of concessions need to be made to local dictators.
Its always case for smaller countries. Which is why countries with big hostile neighbors should never give up nuclear weapons. Good luck, nuclear nonproliferation guys convincing Israel or Iran or Pakistan to give up their nuclear weapons.
|
On March 04 2014 08:29 mahrgell wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 08:27 Cheerio wrote:On March 04 2014 08:06 mcc wrote:On March 04 2014 03:50 BronzeKnee wrote:Confirmed: Anyone leading Great Britain with the last name Chamberlain has no backbone. European leaders are doing exactly what their populations want from them, which definitely is not a war. Democracy in action. US will do exactly the same. Few warmongering fanatics that never experienced war, yet would love to plunge the continent in it are just pathetic. Right, that's why all kinds of concessions need to be made to local dictators. I think it is for the better of Ukraine, if there is no war between Europe and Russia So better be thankful, that not everyone on the world is that triggerhappy
You might be surprised but there are actually steps between banning visas and the total war. Europe could at least pass meaningful economic sanctions. Sanctions at the London stock market and freezing accounts of the leadership come to mind.
|
On March 04 2014 08:19 Cheerio wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 07:53 BronzeKnee wrote:On March 04 2014 07:48 m4ini wrote:On March 04 2014 07:47 BronzeKnee wrote:On March 04 2014 07:46 Ghanburighan wrote:
Please take the talk on military weaponry to some other thread. Yes, because discussing military weaponry has nothing to do with a military conflict. All I've seen you do is sit here and call people out for speaking out about things you don't want to talk about it. You're posts are terrible. It's not a military conflict though, he's right in that regard. For now, it's all politics. It isn't? The military isn't involved? Russian troops aren't in Ukraine? While there isn't fighting currently taking place, Russia has openly told Ukrainian troops to leave Crimea or face a "storm." Military weaponry is tied to this because the armies of two powerful countries are involved with this political situation! On March 04 2014 07:50 r.Evo wrote:On March 04 2014 07:47 BronzeKnee wrote:On March 04 2014 07:46 Ghanburighan wrote:
Please take the talk on military weaponry to some other thread. Yes, because discussing military weaponry has nothing to do with a military conflict. All I've seen you do is sit here and call people out for speaking out about things you don't want to talk about it. You're posts are terrible. Can you stop bitching at someone who actually provides content to the topic at hand and just posted summaries for the entire UNSC council? Only if he stops attacking me for posting too. This is a forum, a place to talk. He alone doesn't get to decide what is important, and I haven't criticized anything he has written up until I said that. So let's leave each other alone. Deal? Done. he is right. This is not the thread to discuss tanks.
Right, because tanks are not being used a political tool to achieve politically what Russia wants. The military has nothing to do with this..
Oh wait...
User was warned for this post
|
On March 04 2014 08:32 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 08:29 mahrgell wrote:On March 04 2014 08:27 Cheerio wrote:On March 04 2014 08:06 mcc wrote:On March 04 2014 03:50 BronzeKnee wrote:Confirmed: Anyone leading Great Britain with the last name Chamberlain has no backbone. European leaders are doing exactly what their populations want from them, which definitely is not a war. Democracy in action. US will do exactly the same. Few warmongering fanatics that never experienced war, yet would love to plunge the continent in it are just pathetic. Right, that's why all kinds of concessions need to be made to local dictators. I think it is for the better of Ukraine, if there is no war between Europe and Russia So better be thankful, that not everyone on the world is that triggerhappy You might be surprised but there are actually steps between banning visas and the total war. Europe could at least pass meaningful economic sanctions. Sanctions at the London stock market and freezing accounts of the leadership come to mind.
Germany and UK already said that is off the table.
|
On March 04 2014 08:32 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 08:29 mahrgell wrote:On March 04 2014 08:27 Cheerio wrote:On March 04 2014 08:06 mcc wrote:On March 04 2014 03:50 BronzeKnee wrote:Confirmed: Anyone leading Great Britain with the last name Chamberlain has no backbone. European leaders are doing exactly what their populations want from them, which definitely is not a war. Democracy in action. US will do exactly the same. Few warmongering fanatics that never experienced war, yet would love to plunge the continent in it are just pathetic. Right, that's why all kinds of concessions need to be made to local dictators. I think it is for the better of Ukraine, if there is no war between Europe and Russia So better be thankful, that not everyone on the world is that triggerhappy You might be surprised but there are actually steps between banning visas and the total war. Europe could at least pass meaningful economic sanctions. Sanctions at the London stock market and freezing accounts of the leadership come to mind.
There is no way out, once a spiral of embargos and sanctions is started...
Do it, and don't be surprised, if the whole eastern Ukraine is suddenly occupied... Well... and then suddenly the options look bad for Europe.
Europe can prepare for all cases... and that is what Europe is doing right now. But cutting all ties now surely won't help to solve the issue. Those threats can be made facts, if the Russians try to make facts... Desperado politics are hardly solving any issue, when facing Russia instead of the usual small suspects...
Back in 2008 Georgia made it super easy, by attacking into the Russians... Ukraine learned from it and stands still but firm. And Europe is doing it's part.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
