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Ukraine Crisis - Page 166
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On March 04 2014 05:26 SilentchiLL wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_modern_equipment_of_the_German_Army Looks okay to me, though to be honest, with the German weapon manufracturers it'd be pretty disappointing if we wouldn't have modern equipment. Depends what you consider "modern". Most of the modern equipment shown on that page is not existant or only existant in dismissable numbers (SPz Puma for example, replacement of "my" marder - looks good on paper, but we don't have it yet). It's off topic though, sorry. Until 2 weeks ago, we didn't even know why our superduper awesome G36 fails to hit anything after 30 minutes of combat... (while other nations had no issue with the G36) Turned out the outer parts of the ammo by some German manufacturer melted under the heat... brilliant, truly brilliant That's not the only problem with the G36. Try shooting with it after you dropped it by accident. Was fun. | ||
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SilentchiLL
Germany1405 Posts
On March 04 2014 05:31 Eisregen wrote: The german army does not lack that much in technology, even though the armoured infantry still uses a 70s model "Marder", which still is okish looking at what it might face and for what purpose it was built for. But the problem is much more the whole stuff behind the operating forces and their material. We lack the capability to supply enough spare parts (many vehicles are down for maintenance or serving as spare part sources), to re-locate heavy gear and troops in sufficient numbers and the numbers of vehicles overall (downsized several times, as the german army was intended as a pure defensive army). And dont call my beloved MG3 a downgraded MG42 please! the MG3 is a beast and a better MG than the MG42 was. =P Well, the German army IS designed as a defensive force, as you said. Contrary to some other bigger countries like France or the US we also don't really have good reasons to get in smaller countries for economical reasons, so I really don't mind that. On March 04 2014 05:33 m4ini wrote: Depends what you consider "modern". Most of the modern equipment shown on that page is not existant or only existant in dismissable numbers (SPz Puma for example, replacement of "my" marder - looks good on paper, but we don't have it yet). It's off topic though, sorry. That's fine, since the army is mostly defensive and any operations outside of our country would be made with only a small part of the whole army that's not an actual problem. | ||
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likeasu
Russian Federation88 Posts
First of all, I wanna You switch ON your brains. Russia will never start war against Ukraine. NEVER. The only one thing why Russia can enter troopers on Crimea- is save Crimea people from quality of new Ukraine goverment. New Ukraine politic faces (Turchinov, Yaceniuk, Klichko) are EMPTY places in fact. They are only PR-persons. They havnt a really power in country. Anothers person rules Ukraine now- people with money and guns in hands (far right extremists form "Praviy sektor" UNA UNSO and so on). And these extrimists used Euromaidan to take power in hands. People who was on Euromaidan are about 0,1% of all Ukraine. The most of them were standing for bright and good ideas. And do you think these ordinary people won? NO! They were just used and fucked by terrorists and Ukraine aligarhs (if you dont belive my words - check up that 2 aligarhs are already now regional governors). And dont blame Russia if you know all facts. Better ask yourself about United States. USA bombed more then 10 countries last 15 years. USA supported military revolutions is East, S.America, Africa. And now in Ukraine. Goverment of USA is really hypocriticals fucking bustards. Russia WILL NEVER FIGHT against Ukranian. Casual people of Russia and Ukraine are brothers. | ||
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
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Liman
Serbia681 Posts
On March 04 2014 05:11 Nyxisto wrote: Apart from the nukes the EU military could probably blast the Russians off the map in a week. Wow this went way off topic. As for military might it is not just about armament,important factors are combat experience and motivation. Only EU troops which have serious combat experience are British (Afghanistan and Iraq).As for Russians they have some experienced troops from Chechnya and Caucasus conflicts. Motivation.No EU soldier will be motivated enough to fight for foreign country.On the other side Russian soldier is motivated to fight for its people and,more importantly,for restoring great Russia. As for armament,the most important part of every modern war is air control. Russian air force is slightly outdated but still numerous and capable,however they have extremely strong anti air defense systems,S300,S400,etc. In a military conflict between EU and Russia in Ukraine,Russia would be clear winner (dont forget they have bases near and ready). Anyways as i said this is way of topic,there wont be any conflict between EU or NATO with Russia. They all know where that would lead. | ||
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Saumure
France404 Posts
On March 04 2014 05:10 xDaunt wrote: I think you're shortselling EU power a bit and overestimating the Russians. Correct me if I am wrong, but the Russians are more or less using the same shit that Saddam used back in 1991. The EU has better stuff than that. Russia has this http://english.irib.ir/news/world/europe/item/180619-russia,-china-‘in-agreement’-on-ukraine On March 04 2014 05:09 Sermokala wrote: Article 4 is just people coming togeather to talk. Article 5 is the one that means war is coming and has only been invoked once after 9/11 2001 for obvious reasons. If anything I think the largest thing to come out of this may be that ukraine joins NATO as well possible the baltic states. I laughed at that one | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
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Godwrath
Spain10126 Posts
On March 04 2014 05:26 SilentchiLL wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_modern_equipment_of_the_German_Army Looks okay to me, though to be honest, with the German weapon manufracturers it'd be pretty disappointing if we wouldn't have modern equipment. At this point, we don't have much to envy germany to be honest. What i was speaking about with "regulars", was the meat, the numbers. At this point for example we use the G36 (i was one of the first to actually get and shoot one, lucky me), but you don't have the modern equipment for everybody, specially if you need to pull from reserves in case of a war. I don't know if it was you, but you are definitly short selling Russian army when it comes to operational companies using "saddam's era" equipment, when they are likely to have gear to match our operational ones, with a few exceptions. Regulars will (again, the meat) have the shitty equipment, as would ours. I don't know how knowledgeable you are on mechanized vehicles, but maybe you can clear this out for me. As i remember a few years ago, most of German's leopards were not upgraded to L2A6, while most of them being L2A4 or lower, which aren't exactly top notch when it comes to tank technologic (filters, computer, etc). I see they are planning for the 2A6, so i guess most of them are L2A5 now or i am wrong in my assumption. Disgregard that, let's not de rail the topic. Just say we agree to disagree. | ||
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Makro
France16890 Posts
plus our nuclear dissuasion cost us too much, we can cut it and still be able to launch nuclear missile all over the planet (they replaced our perfect m45 by m51 who did the same .. 15 billions of euros in it) but i agree with some people here that we(major european power) have still a very efficient air army that could crush russia | ||
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Adreme
United States5574 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On March 04 2014 05:34 likeasu wrote: hey, guys from US, UK and another. Relax, ok? First of all, I wanna You switch ON your brains. Russia will never start war against Ukraine. NEVER. The only one thing why Russia can enter troopers on Crimea- is save Crimea people from quality of new Ukraine goverment. New Ukraine politic faces (Turchinov, Yaceniuk, Klichko) are EMPTY places in fact. They are only PR-persons. They havnt a really power in country. Anothers person rules Ukraine now- people with money and guns in hands (far right extremists form "Praviy sektor" UNA UNSO and so on). And these extrimists used Euromaidan to take power in hands. People who was on Euromaidan are about 0,1% of all Ukraine. The most of them were standing for bright and good ideas. And do you think these ordinary people won? NO! They were just used and fucked by terrorists and Ukraine aligarhs (if you dont belive my words - check up that 2 aligarhs are already now regional governors). And dont blame Russia if you know all facts. Better ask yourself about United States. USA bombed more then 10 countries last 15 years. USA supported military revolutions is East, S.America, Africa. And now in Ukraine. Goverment of USA is really hypocriticals fucking bustards. Russia WILL NEVER FIGHT against Ukranian. Casual people of Russia and Ukraine are brothers. Russia won't have to fight, actually. | ||
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nunez
Norway4003 Posts
On March 04 2014 03:31 BronzeKnee wrote: You want recent history? Let's talk about Georgia. embarassing that you think the south-ossetian conflict speaks your case, but welcome to the club. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
That's fine, since the army is mostly defensive and any operations outside of our country would be made with only a small part of the whole army that's not an actual problem. It is, though. Last time on that topic, but it's important that you consider that people are not trained on those vehicles (Puma, Boxer etc). There is no experience whatsoever in these. After 25 years in a tank as analog as the SPz Marder, i bet alot of my former Kameraden will have trouble using the SPz Puma efficiently. Sorry again. -,- edit I don't know how knowledgeable you are on mechanized vehicles, but maybe you can clear this out for me. As i remember a few years ago, most of German's leopards were not upgraded to L2A6, while most of them being L2A4 or lower, which aren't exactly top notch when it comes to tank technologic (filters, computer, etc). I see they are planning for the 2A6, so i guess most of them are L2A5 now or i am wrong in my assumption. All Leo2s in the "crisis intervention force" are A6s, plus some PSOs. | ||
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SCST
Mexico1609 Posts
On March 04 2014 05:34 likeasu wrote: hey, guys from US, UK and another. Relax, ok? First of all, I wanna You switch ON your brains. Russia will never start war against Ukraine. NEVER. The only one thing why Russia can enter troopers on Crimea- is save Crimea people from quality of new Ukraine goverment. New Ukraine politic faces (Turchinov, Yaceniuk, Klichko) are EMPTY places in fact. They are only PR-persons. They havnt a really power in country. Anothers person rules Ukraine now- people with money and guns in hands (far right extremists form "Praviy sektor" UNA UNSO and so on). And these extrimists used Euromaidan to take power in hands. People who was on Euromaidan are about 0,1% of all Ukraine. The most of them were standing for bright and good ideas. And do you think these ordinary people won? NO! They were just used and fucked by terrorists and Ukraine aligarhs (if you dont belive my words - check up that 2 aligarhs are already now regional governors). And dont blame Russia if you know all facts. Better ask yourself about United States. USA bombed more then 10 countries last 15 years. USA supported military revolutions is East, S.America, Africa. And now in Ukraine. Goverment of USA is really hypocriticals fucking bustards. Russia WILL NEVER FIGHT against Ukranian. Casual people of Russia and Ukraine are brothers. Russian propaganda. | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On March 04 2014 05:34 likeasu wrote: hey, guys from US, UK and another. Relax, ok? First of all, I wanna You switch ON your brains. Russia will never start war against Ukraine. NEVER. The only one thing why Russia can enter troopers on Crimea- is save Crimea people from quality of new Ukraine goverment. New Ukraine politic faces (Turchinov, Yaceniuk, Klichko) are EMPTY places in fact. They are only PR-persons. They havnt a really power in country. Anothers person rules Ukraine now- people with money and guns in hands (far right extremists form "Praviy sektor" UNA UNSO and so on). And these extrimists used Euromaidan to take power in hands. People who was on Euromaidan are about 0,1% of all Ukraine. The most of them were standing for bright and good ideas. And do you think these ordinary people won? NO! They were just used and fucked by terrorists and Ukraine aligarhs (if you dont belive my words - check up that 2 aligarhs are already now regional governors). And dont blame Russia if you know all facts. Better ask yourself about United States. USA bombed more then 10 countries last 15 years. USA supported military revolutions is East, S.America, Africa. And now in Ukraine. Goverment of USA is really hypocriticals fucking bustards. Russia WILL NEVER FIGHT against Ukranian. Casual people of Russia and Ukraine are brothers. You have no proof of anything that you say here The fact that we do know is that Russia has already invaded Ukraine. Would it be okay for us to send troops into Russia to protect Russian people from their own government? That is exactly what you are saying that Russia is doing. | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On March 04 2014 05:34 likeasu wrote: hey, guys from US, UK and another. Relax, ok? First of all, I wanna You switch ON your brains. Russia will never start war against Ukraine. NEVER. The only one thing why Russia can enter troopers on Crimea- is save Crimea people from quality of new Ukraine goverment. Save them from what? Elections that were going to happen in May? New Ukraine politic faces (Turchinov, Yaceniuk, Klichko) are EMPTY places in fact. They are only PR-persons. They havnt a really power in country. Anothers person rules Ukraine now- people with money and guns in hands The way Medvedev was a PR-person for Putin? (far right extremists form "Praviy sektor" UNA UNSO and so on). And these extrimists used Euromaidan to take power in hands. People who was on Euromaidan are about 0,1% of all Ukraine. The most of them were standing for bright and good ideas. And do you think these ordinary people won? NO! They were just used and fucked by terrorists and Ukraine aligarhs (if you dont belive my words - check up that 2 aligarhs are already now regional governors). So the fascists are in control of Ukraine or the Russian speaking, Jewish oligarchs who were appointed in the East? And dont blame Russia if you know all facts. We seem to know more facts than you do. Better ask yourself about United States. USA bombed more then 10 countries last 15 years. USA supported military revolutions is East, S.America, Africa. And now in Ukraine. Goverment of USA is really hypocriticals fucking bustards. So far the only troops on the territory of Ukraine pointing guns at Ukrainian soldiers and demanding that Ukrainian soldiers surrender are Russians. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
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SCST
Mexico1609 Posts
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Roman666
Poland1440 Posts
On March 04 2014 05:34 likeasu wrote: hey, guys from US, UK and another. Relax, ok? First of all, I wanna You switch ON your brains. Russia will never start war against Ukraine. NEVER. The only one thing why Russia can enter troopers on Crimea- is save Crimea people from quality of new Ukraine goverment. New Ukraine politic faces (Turchinov, Yaceniuk, Klichko) are EMPTY places in fact. They are only PR-persons. They havnt a really power in country. Anothers person rules Ukraine now- people with money and guns in hands (far right extremists form "Praviy sektor" UNA UNSO and so on). And these extrimists used Euromaidan to take power in hands. People who was on Euromaidan are about 0,1% of all Ukraine. The most of them were standing for bright and good ideas. And do you think these ordinary people won? NO! They were just used and fucked by terrorists and Ukraine aligarhs (if you dont belive my words - check up that 2 aligarhs are already now regional governors). And dont blame Russia if you know all facts. Better ask yourself about United States. USA bombed more then 10 countries last 15 years. USA supported military revolutions is East, S.America, Africa. And now in Ukraine. Goverment of USA is really hypocriticals fucking bustards. Russia WILL NEVER FIGHT against Ukranian. Casual people of Russia and Ukraine are brothers. But USA! | ||
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