On March 02 2014 08:24 PaleMan wrote: you have no proofs about snipers but you are so sure it was police sniper any evidence? that's right - none but somehow you are so sure it was ukrainian police sniper
Sniper in police uniform, shooting protesters opposing their employer after being ordered so = EU sniper.
That totally makes sense. Did your media confirm that as well?
The issue here is that none of us can say which side was firing those shots. On one hand you have a special unit on edge with orders we don't know about on the other side you have a protesting mob for which the best thing to happen is getting shot at to have the world on their side when it comes to an escalation. We simply don't know.
Imagine "Ukrainians" opening fire on Russian soldiers sitting in their own military base right now. Technically it would be the best thing possible for Russia but it would also be reasonable to assume someone on the Ukrainian side actually just did something incredibly stupid.
In situations like these it's almost impossible to know which side is actually doing what since we're dealing with extremists on both sides.
The issue here is that none of us can say which side was firing those shots. On one hand you have a special unit on edge with orders we don't know about on the other side you have a protesting mob for which the best thing to happen is getting shot at to have the world on their side when it comes to an escalation. We simply don't know.
In what book is a "special unit on edge" a "eu-sniper"?
I wasn't talking about who shot first. I was talking about where they came from.
On March 02 2014 07:41 Knuty wrote: just wait one more year, that should take away all the corruption......
just make Maidan and all corruption will go away instantly
Maidan was a symbol of hope, symbol that led to awakening of minds. Just waiting 1 year would leave people vulnerable for propaganda, for your usual pre-election tricks and technologies and most importably wouldn't give anything to hold on for.
What Maidan have achieved is far beyond just toppling a dictator (Yanukovich). It showed people that government must be and can be controlled by people. It should allow us to reboot the country (something that Georgia did). Wonderful things, but than there is a Putin with his everlasting bloody imperial ambitions. How many times he will pull the same trick before world and russians stop believing him?
Today a guy from Moscow put a russian flag on city hall of Kharkiv (second largest city in Ukraine). What would you think if it was guy from Paris putting french flag on city hall of Manchester (and also burns the Union Jack afterwards)? There is strong russian community in Crimea. True. But now imagine. Some people from russian neighbourhood in New York capture a local administrative building, locks there and call for Putin to protect them from afro-american-nazis. Putin sends war fleet and politics to New York, declaring war on USA. Absurd? Well thats what happening in Crimea.
Putin call us nazis. But his propaganda and methods is painfully similar to Hitler's.
No offence to France, UK, USA, and peaceful russian people.
I'm sorry that my thoughts is a bit messy, thats because my country is at war, u know. So please, give your support to stop this war. Also, your support is needed for Venezuela and Thailand. Thanks.
The issue here is that none of us can say which side was firing those shots. On one hand you have a special unit on edge with orders we don't know about on the other side you have a protesting mob for which the best thing to happen is getting shot at to have the world on their side when it comes to an escalation. We simply don't know.
In what book is a "special unit on edge" a "eu-sniper"?
I wasn't talking about who shot first. I was talking about where they came from.
I was talking about Berkut when I mentioned the special units on edge.
Do you know where that specific shot came from? No, you don't and I don't know either. Do you know whether Berkut was ordered to shoot any civilians? Only confirmed armed people? People who appear to be armed? If they do start firing the best possible thing for the protesters as an entity is if someone unarmed and as innocent as possible being shot. It's also the worst thing possible for the "police" side in this scenario.
Was it a single policeman not giving a fuck and shooting a medic for fun or out of hatred? Was it a general order? Was the shot coming from someone completely different? We. Just. Don't. Know. That's why arguing either side is utterly pointless at this stage.
The issue here is that none of us can say which side was firing those shots. On one hand you have a special unit on edge with orders we don't know about on the other side you have a protesting mob for which the best thing to happen is getting shot at to have the world on their side when it comes to an escalation. We simply don't know.
In what book is a "special unit on edge" a "eu-sniper"?
I wasn't talking about who shot first. I was talking about where they came from.
I was talking about Berkut when I mentioned the special units on edge.
Do you know where that specific shot came from? No, you don't and I don't know either. Do you know whether Berkut was ordered to shoot any civilians? Only confirmed armed people? People who appear to be armed? If they do start firing the best possible thing for the protesters as an entity is if someone unarmed and as innocent as possible being shot. It's also the worst thing possible for the "police" side in this scenario.
Was it a single policeman not giving a fuck and shooting a medic for fun or out of hatred? Was it a general order? Was the shot coming from someone completely different? We. Just. Don't. Know. That's why arguing either side is utterly pointless at this stage.
Sigh, okay. So where in all that is the german/french/british sniper? And what gain would that bring us, since the EU completely "lost" on every front, and it was pretty predictable that this would happen?
See, i like to stay in the realm of reasonable assumptions. Assuming this whole thing was set up by the EU to, i don't know, lose the ukraine to russia (Oo) is just stupid.
The issue here is that none of us can say which side was firing those shots. On one hand you have a special unit on edge with orders we don't know about on the other side you have a protesting mob for which the best thing to happen is getting shot at to have the world on their side when it comes to an escalation. We simply don't know.
In what book is a "special unit on edge" a "eu-sniper"?
I wasn't talking about who shot first. I was talking about where they came from.
I was talking about Berkut when I mentioned the special units on edge.
Do you know where that specific shot came from? No, you don't and I don't know either. Do you know whether Berkut was ordered to shoot any civilians? Only confirmed armed people? People who appear to be armed? If they do start firing the best possible thing for the protesters as an entity is if someone unarmed and as innocent as possible being shot. It's also the worst thing possible for the "police" side in this scenario.
Was it a single policeman not giving a fuck and shooting a medic for fun or out of hatred? Was it a general order? Was the shot coming from someone completely different? We. Just. Don't. Know. That's why arguing either side is utterly pointless at this stage.
Sigh, okay. So where in all that is the german/french/british sniper?
There wasn't german/french and other foreigners, there were only our, local policemans and snipers.
Which is obvious and fine, since they also did their orders.
The issue here is that none of us can say which side was firing those shots. On one hand you have a special unit on edge with orders we don't know about on the other side you have a protesting mob for which the best thing to happen is getting shot at to have the world on their side when it comes to an escalation. We simply don't know.
In what book is a "special unit on edge" a "eu-sniper"?
I wasn't talking about who shot first. I was talking about where they came from.
I was talking about Berkut when I mentioned the special units on edge.
Do you know where that specific shot came from? No, you don't and I don't know either. Do you know whether Berkut was ordered to shoot any civilians? Only confirmed armed people? People who appear to be armed? If they do start firing the best possible thing for the protesters as an entity is if someone unarmed and as innocent as possible being shot. It's also the worst thing possible for the "police" side in this scenario.
Was it a single policeman not giving a fuck and shooting a medic for fun or out of hatred? Was it a general order? Was the shot coming from someone completely different? We. Just. Don't. Know. That's why arguing either side is utterly pointless at this stage.
Sigh, okay. So where in all that is the german/french/british sniper?
There wasn't german/french and other foreigners, there were only our, local policemans and snipers.
Which is obvious and fine, since they also did their orders.
As i said, wether i agree to their actions or not, does not matter in this regard. It's purely about a russian living in a fantasy world about the EU sending snipers into the ukraine to shoot protesters.
The issue here is that none of us can say which side was firing those shots. On one hand you have a special unit on edge with orders we don't know about on the other side you have a protesting mob for which the best thing to happen is getting shot at to have the world on their side when it comes to an escalation. We simply don't know.
In what book is a "special unit on edge" a "eu-sniper"?
I wasn't talking about who shot first. I was talking about where they came from.
I was talking about Berkut when I mentioned the special units on edge.
Do you know where that specific shot came from? No, you don't and I don't know either. Do you know whether Berkut was ordered to shoot any civilians? Only confirmed armed people? People who appear to be armed? If they do start firing the best possible thing for the protesters as an entity is if someone unarmed and as innocent as possible being shot. It's also the worst thing possible for the "police" side in this scenario.
Was it a single policeman not giving a fuck and shooting a medic for fun or out of hatred? Was it a general order? Was the shot coming from someone completely different? We. Just. Don't. Know. That's why arguing either side is utterly pointless at this stage.
Sigh, okay. So where in all that is the german/french/british sniper?
There wasn't german/french and other foreigners, there were only our, local policemans and snipers.
Which is obvious and fine, since they also did their orders.
As i said, wether i agree to their actions or not, does not matter in this regard. It's purely about a russian living in a fantasy world about the EU sending snipers into the ukraine to shoot protesters.
Than leave him in his own dream, no reason to debate with such persons that belive in such madness, one day he would prove about reptiloids in right sector :D
The issue here is that none of us can say which side was firing those shots. On one hand you have a special unit on edge with orders we don't know about on the other side you have a protesting mob for which the best thing to happen is getting shot at to have the world on their side when it comes to an escalation. We simply don't know.
In what book is a "special unit on edge" a "eu-sniper"?
I wasn't talking about who shot first. I was talking about where they came from.
I was talking about Berkut when I mentioned the special units on edge.
Do you know where that specific shot came from? No, you don't and I don't know either. Do you know whether Berkut was ordered to shoot any civilians? Only confirmed armed people? People who appear to be armed? If they do start firing the best possible thing for the protesters as an entity is if someone unarmed and as innocent as possible being shot. It's also the worst thing possible for the "police" side in this scenario.
Was it a single policeman not giving a fuck and shooting a medic for fun or out of hatred? Was it a general order? Was the shot coming from someone completely different? We. Just. Don't. Know. That's why arguing either side is utterly pointless at this stage.
Sigh, okay. So where in all that is the german/french/british sniper?
There wasn't german/french and other foreigners, there were only our, local policemans and snipers.
Which is obvious and fine, since they also did their orders.
As i said, wether i agree to their actions or not, does not matter in this regard. It's purely about a russian living in a fantasy world about the EU sending snipers into the ukraine to shoot protesters.
I don't think anyone seriously believes there were EU snipers, I assume he was just mocking you since you wanted him to produce proof, and he is saying you can't produce any, might as well be EU snipers, just my guess though.
The issue here is that none of us can say which side was firing those shots. On one hand you have a special unit on edge with orders we don't know about on the other side you have a protesting mob for which the best thing to happen is getting shot at to have the world on their side when it comes to an escalation. We simply don't know.
In what book is a "special unit on edge" a "eu-sniper"?
I wasn't talking about who shot first. I was talking about where they came from.
I was talking about Berkut when I mentioned the special units on edge.
Do you know where that specific shot came from? No, you don't and I don't know either. Do you know whether Berkut was ordered to shoot any civilians? Only confirmed armed people? People who appear to be armed? If they do start firing the best possible thing for the protesters as an entity is if someone unarmed and as innocent as possible being shot. It's also the worst thing possible for the "police" side in this scenario.
Was it a single policeman not giving a fuck and shooting a medic for fun or out of hatred? Was it a general order? Was the shot coming from someone completely different? We. Just. Don't. Know. That's why arguing either side is utterly pointless at this stage.
Sigh, okay. So where in all that is the german/french/british sniper? And what gain would that bring us, since the EU completely "lost" on every front, and it was pretty predictable that this would happen?
See, i like to stay in the realm of reasonable assumptions. Assuming this whole thing was set up by the EU to, i don't know, lose the ukraine to russia (Oo) is just stupid.
That's not what I'm trying to say.
When someone says "Berkut Snipers shot a medic!" and the guy answers "Bullshit, those were protesters trying to make Berkut look bad!" neither side has any actual proof to prove their point.
In my personal opinion it's obviously a lot more likely that it came from the side of Berkut but all I have as an argument is "Well they're kind of nuts, have easier to access to guns and it kinda makes sense" - which isn't exactly convincing. To my knowledge there is just no clear proof that makes me say "This is the way it was and you're a moron for saying otherwise because of this, this and this" and there most likely never will be.
The issue here is that none of us can say which side was firing those shots. On one hand you have a special unit on edge with orders we don't know about on the other side you have a protesting mob for which the best thing to happen is getting shot at to have the world on their side when it comes to an escalation. We simply don't know.
In what book is a "special unit on edge" a "eu-sniper"?
I wasn't talking about who shot first. I was talking about where they came from.
I was talking about Berkut when I mentioned the special units on edge.
Do you know where that specific shot came from? No, you don't and I don't know either. Do you know whether Berkut was ordered to shoot any civilians? Only confirmed armed people? People who appear to be armed? If they do start firing the best possible thing for the protesters as an entity is if someone unarmed and as innocent as possible being shot. It's also the worst thing possible for the "police" side in this scenario.
Was it a single policeman not giving a fuck and shooting a medic for fun or out of hatred? Was it a general order? Was the shot coming from someone completely different? We. Just. Don't. Know. That's why arguing either side is utterly pointless at this stage.
Sigh, okay. So where in all that is the german/french/british sniper?
There wasn't german/french and other foreigners, there were only our, local policemans and snipers.
Which is obvious and fine, since they also did their orders.
As i said, wether i agree to their actions or not, does not matter in this regard. It's purely about a russian living in a fantasy world about the EU sending snipers into the ukraine to shoot protesters.
I don't think anyone seriously believes there were EU snipers, I assume he was just mocking you since you wanted him to produce proof, and he is saying you can't produce any, might as well be EU snipers, just my guess though.
Sadly people like Paleman and Zeo are very much real.
Btw, Ukrainian oligarhs decided to take responsibility for their native regions instead of facing the opportunity to leave everything on Putin's decisions. We're going to have a lot of new governors in eastern cities very soon.
On March 02 2014 08:02 Knuty wrote: not saying maiden will make all corruption go away instantly,but when common people in your country protest in the streets while getting beat up , shot and arrested, somethings not right. And to call those people thieves and nazis is just .....
don't make me search youtube to show you HOW potesters treated in YOUR country
Go find one where medics are shot by police snipers Go find one where there leaders are kidnapped and tortured Go find one where they are shot at with live ammo.
Oh wait you cant....
Man, this is pathetic. Medics shot by police snipers? Any proof? The police started firing live ammo long after several policemen died to gunshot wounds. He doesn't need to go find any videos, since you are spouting your fantasies.
The issue here is that none of us can say which side was firing those shots. On one hand you have a special unit on edge with orders we don't know about on the other side you have a protesting mob for which the best thing to happen is getting shot at to have the world on their side when it comes to an escalation. We simply don't know.
In what book is a "special unit on edge" a "eu-sniper"?
I wasn't talking about who shot first. I was talking about where they came from.
I was talking about Berkut when I mentioned the special units on edge.
Do you know where that specific shot came from? No, you don't and I don't know either. Do you know whether Berkut was ordered to shoot any civilians? Only confirmed armed people? People who appear to be armed? If they do start firing the best possible thing for the protesters as an entity is if someone unarmed and as innocent as possible being shot. It's also the worst thing possible for the "police" side in this scenario.
Was it a single policeman not giving a fuck and shooting a medic for fun or out of hatred? Was it a general order? Was the shot coming from someone completely different? We. Just. Don't. Know. That's why arguing either side is utterly pointless at this stage.
Sigh, okay. So where in all that is the german/french/british sniper? And what gain would that bring us, since the EU completely "lost" on every front, and it was pretty predictable that this would happen?
See, i like to stay in the realm of reasonable assumptions. Assuming this whole thing was set up by the EU to, i don't know, lose the ukraine to russia (Oo) is just stupid.
That's not what I'm trying to say.
When someone says "Berkut Snipers shot a medic!" and the guy answers "Bullshit, those were protesters trying to make Berkut look bad!" neither side has any actual proof to prove their point.
In my personal opinion it's obviously a lot more likely that it came from the side of Berkut but all I have as an argument is "Well they're kind of nuts, have easier to access to guns and it kinda makes sense" - which isn't exactly convincing. To my knowledge there is just no clear proof that makes me say "This is the way it was and you're a moron for saying otherwise because of this, this and this" and there most likely never will be.
But this was at no point a point that was argued, i have no idea what you were trying to say. Point was that PaleMan steif und fest argues that the snipers that shot are from the EU.
I don't think anyone seriously believes there were EU snipers, I assume he was just mocking you since you wanted him to produce proof, and he is saying you can't produce any, might as well be EU snipers, just my guess though.
Read PaleMans history please.
Man, this is pathetic. Medics shot by police snipers? Any proof? The police started firing live ammo long after several policemen died to gunshot wounds. He doesn't need to go find any videos, since you are spouting your fantasies.
There definately was a medic with a gunshot wound in her neck. Don't know in what context, but there's a couple of videos around of people shooting basically aimless into crowds, spraying bullets.
Just curious, I see a lot of criticism from both sides, but what is a good solution for an area like Crimea, that has historically been Russian, has a vast majority of people that consider themselves Russian, want to join Russia, don't want anything to do with the current government of Ukraine. Personally I know its not that easy, but seems like its logical they join Russia.
On March 02 2014 09:14 kukarachaa wrote: Just curious, I see a lot of criticism from both sides, but what is a good solution for an area like Crimea, that has historically been Russian, has a vast majority of people that consider themselves Russian, want to join Russia, don't want anything to do with the current government of Ukraine. Personally I know its not that easy, but seems like its logical they join Russia.
Problem is that Russia is also most likely to annex eastern part of Ukraine along with Crimea at this point.
On March 02 2014 09:14 kukarachaa wrote: Just curious, I see a lot of criticism from both sides, but what is a good solution for an area like Crimea, that has historically been Russian, has a vast majority of people that consider themselves Russian, want to join Russia, don't want anything to do with the current government of Ukraine. Personally I know its not that easy, but seems like its logical they join Russia.
So let them decide that themselves. Why does it need to happen with a Russian Army standing in the street? The problem isn't Crimea's desire of independence. Its about Russia invading the Ukraine over non existent reasons.(so called aggression against Russian minority that isn't happening)
A public voting in the most popular CIS social network vk.com around citizens of Kharkov. Voters been suggested to answer if they want to join Kharkov in Russian Federation. Results are:
On March 02 2014 09:14 kukarachaa wrote: Just curious, I see a lot of criticism from both sides, but what is a good solution for an area like Crimea, that has historically been Russian, has a vast majority of people that consider themselves Russian, want to join Russia, don't want anything to do with the current government of Ukraine. Personally I know its not that easy, but seems like its logical they join Russia.
So let them decide that themselves. Why does it need to happen with a Russian Army standing in the street? The problem isn't Crimea's desire of independence. Its about Russia invading the Ukraine over non existent reasons.(so called aggression against Russian minority that isn't happening)
I don't think the current government will ever allow them to decide for themselves, since it will set a bad precedent for other Eastern Ukraine Territories that are in a similar situation.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i054.radikal.ru/1403/fc/b56687ac49cd.jpg)
