EPTUkraine Crisis - Page 123
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
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Feartheguru
Canada1334 Posts
On March 02 2014 10:38 Sub40APM wrote: Yes. A country that has acted badly in one stance has no right to speak against the bad actions of another country in a totally different context. We should all just follow the principle that might makes right and prepare for nuclear armed Taiwan and Japan. One?? Let me give you a list of interventions where the people of the country did NOT ask for the U.S. to come but the government was overthrown anyways in the last few decades. Panama Chile Iran Iraq Afghanistan Nicaragua Vietnam(fail) Cuba(fail) Bonus: Killing people with drones with civilians as collateral damage. The principle that might is right has worked for the U.S. for 70 years, so other countries will also do it when they can, that's the reality, not saying's it's right. | ||
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LongShot27
United States2084 Posts
Courtesy of Russia today | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
Cuba also had an anti-Castro insurgency that wasn't made up entirely of Cuban exiles working with the CIA who fought against Castro until they were annihilated in the late 60s. Guess you didn't know about that. Pretty sure they would have asked us to remove Castro if we'd shown them we would be serious if they did ask which we weren't after the Bay of Pigs, unless you think Kennedy asking his mistress to talk up her other squeeze Sam Giancomo to put a horse in Castro's bed constitutes serious attempts to overthrow Castro's government. Also lollerskates Libya, you had every two-bit rebel in Libya begging for the US to bomb Gaddhafi which we did. Pretty sure in each of those countries there were people who wanted the US to kick out their current government actually, and again lollerskates Manuel Noriega such a fine guy and the Sandinistas such fine folks and yeah again those South Vietnamese actually did ask the US to help them, guess you forgot that part too. Maybe you also forgot where 3 million South Vietnamese fled the country when the communists took over, pretty sure that was one of the greatest refugee crises of the 20th century and pretty sure those people would have been just fine with the US continuing to fight North Vietnam. Oh hey look let's add Iraq and Afghanistan... Afghanistan, the Northern Alliance wanted us to come in for years and we finally did, Iraq the Kurds wanted us to come in for years and we finally did. Also seem to remember huge celebrations in Baghdad when Saddam's government fell. So again, these countries where no one wanted us to come in, plenty of people did. Shocker huh? So out of your whole list you have Chile. Congratulations, you're an ignorant anti-American demagogue. Bonus: Killing people with drones with civilians as collateral damage Yeah, the one way of bombing that has reduced civilian casualties to less than 10% of the total dead from bombing for the first time in human history ever since bombing was invented is an example of horrific American brutality. roflmao | ||
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LongShot27
United States2084 Posts
On March 02 2014 10:50 DeepElemBlues wrote: Oh hey look, time for some more cheap anti-Americanism masquerading as principle. The US also didn't overthrow Cuba's government... unless you mean back at the start of the 20th century when the Cubans were pretty happy we kicked the Spanish out. Cuba also had an anti-Castro insurgency that wasn't made up entirely of Cuban exiles working with the CIA who fought against Castro until they were annihilated in the late 60s. Guess you didn't know about that. Pretty sure they would have asked us to remove Castro if we'd shown them we would be serious if they did ask which we weren't after the Bay of Pigs, unless you think Kennedy asking his mistress to talk up her other squeeze Sam Giancomo to put a horse in Castro's bed constitutes serious attempts to overthrow Castro's government. Also lollerskates Libya, you had every two-bit rebel in Libya begging for the US to bomb Gaddhafi which we did. Pretty sure in each of those countries there were people who wanted the US to kick out their current government actually, and again lollerskates Manuel Noriega such a fine guy and the Sandinistas such fine folks and yeah again those South Vietnamese actually did ask the US to help them, guess you forgot that part too. So out of your whole list you have Chile. Congratulations, you're an ignorant anti-American demagogue. Yeah, the one way of bombing that has reduced civilian casualties to less than 10% of the total dead from bombing for the first time in human history ever since bombing was invented is an example of horrific American brutality. roflmao Dude the US sucks, we all know it, we've accepted it, its alright | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On March 02 2014 10:44 Feartheguru wrote: One?? Let me give you a list of interventions where the people of the country did NOT ask for the U.S. to come but the government was overthrown anyways in the last few decades. Panama Chile Iran Iraq Afghanistan Nicaragua Vietnam(fail) Cuba(fail) Bonus: Killing people with drones with civilians as collateral damage I guess I dont get the point of your hyper edgy-anti-Americanism. Sucks for all those countries, how does it pertain to the current crisis where Putin is annexing pieces of the country? Can we draw out all the democratic the Americans helped set up and shepherd through as a balance? Or should the Ukrainians be looking at help from a country without a history, like San Marino or Leichetenstein, to help out? Can the Germans be involved? I mean sure they had that whole WW2 problem and the Russians love to scream Nazi while zeo gives us photoshops of Hitler but it seems like the current federal republic is a whole new country, with people with a completely different attitude? | ||
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Feartheguru
Canada1334 Posts
On March 02 2014 10:50 DeepElemBlues wrote: Oh hey look, time for some more cheap anti-Americanism masquerading as principle. The US also didn't overthrow Cuba's government... unless you mean back at the start of the 20th century when the Cubans were pretty happy we kicked the Spanish out. Cuba also had an anti-Castro insurgency that wasn't made up entirely of Cuban exiles working with the CIA who fought against Castro until they were annihilated in the late 60s. Guess you didn't know about that. Pretty sure they would have asked us to remove Castro if we'd shown them we would be serious if they did ask which we weren't after the Bay of Pigs, unless you think Kennedy asking his mistress to talk up her other squeeze Sam Giancomo to put a horse in Castro's bed constitutes serious attempts to overthrow Castro's government. Also lollerskates Libya, you had every two-bit rebel in Libya begging for the US to bomb Gaddhafi which we did. Pretty sure in each of those countries there were people who wanted the US to kick out their current government actually, and again lollerskates Manuel Noriega such a fine guy and the Sandinistas such fine folks and yeah again those South Vietnamese actually did ask the US to help them, guess you forgot that part too. So out of your whole list you have Chile. Congratulations, you're an ignorant anti-American demagogue. Yeah, the one way of bombing that has reduced civilian casualties to less than 10% of the total dead from bombing for the first time in human history ever since bombing was invented is an example of horrific American brutality. roflmao A very tiny portion of the Vietnamese wanted the U.S. (pretty obvious with the huge insurgency lol...) You admit CIA worked with exiles to overthrow the Cuban government enough said. A small group in Nicaragua asked for the U.S. One way of bombing that the country asks the U.S. to stop, but it doesn't anyways, so it doesn't matter if it's 0% or 100%. Sorry, something this stupid doesn't deserve more of my time. | ||
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Feartheguru
Canada1334 Posts
On March 02 2014 10:52 Sub40APM wrote: I guess I dont get the point of your hyper edgy-anti-Americanism. Sucks for all those countries, how does it pertain to the current crisis where Putin is annexing pieces of the country? Can we draw out all the democratic the Americans helped set up and shepherd through as a balance? Or should the Ukrainians be looking at help from a country without a history, like San Marino or Leichetenstein, to help out? Can the Germans be involved? I mean sure they had that whole WW2 problem and the Russians love to scream Nazi while zeo gives us photoshops of Hitler but it seems like the current federal republic is a whole new country, with people with a completely different attitude? Nothing, didn't say what Russia is doing is right, all I said is you're a hypocrit. | ||
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On March 02 2014 10:50 DeepElemBlues wrote: Oh hey look, time for some more cheap anti-Americanism masquerading as principle. Well, there's plenty to work with there, you gotta admit. | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On March 02 2014 10:56 Feartheguru wrote: Nothing, didn't say what Russia is doing is right, all I said is you're a hypocrit. That really hurts my feelings. | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
On March 02 2014 10:55 Feartheguru wrote: A very tiny portion of the Vietnamese wanted the U.S. (pretty obvious with the huge insurgency lol...) You admit CIA worked with exiles to overthrow the Cuban government enough said. A small group in Nicaragua asked for the U.S. One way of bombing that the country asks the U.S. to stop, but it doesn't anyways, so it doesn't matter if it's 0% or 100%. Sorry, something this stupid doesn't deserve more of my time. A very tiny portion? Dzzzzzzzzzzzr wrong. Enough said? Here's you: la la la fingers in my ears I can't hear you except the things you say that I want to hear loo lay loo lay loo Small group? So what, you said NO ONE didn't you? The Pakistani government lets us use their air bases to launch drones from to bomb Taliban. They give us intelligence on targets. But that means zero to you because the Pakistani government also says we don't like drones so their allowing us to use their military airbases to launch drones from means zero, because la la la I can't hear you it doesn't matter America evil. I agree, something this stupid doesn't deserve anyone's time, so the question is why did you bring it up. On March 02 2014 10:57 hypercube wrote: Well, there's plenty to work with there, you gotta admit. Only to people who forget or don't care about when the Soviet Union was sending tanks into Czechoslovakia. Or Poland (to their credit even the commie Poles said they'd fight back and the Russians backed down). Or Hungary. Or giving Kim il-Sun the weapons and the green light to invade South Korea. Or invading Afghanistan. Or the fifty or so other things the USSR did that were all worse than anything the US did during the Cold War. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On March 02 2014 10:55 Feartheguru wrote: I'm surprised he even responded to your mindless America-bashing; it didn't merit a response. Bash America -> ??? -> America stay out of Ukraine? Look at my laundry list of countries I simultaneously have gripes with American on and won't bother defending those gripes! Quench the drivel and tell us something sensible regarding Ukraine and America.A very tiny portion of the Vietnamese wanted the U.S. (pretty obvious with the huge insurgency lol...) You admit CIA worked with exiles to overthrow the Cuban government enough said. A small group in Nicaragua asked for the U.S. One way of bombing that the country asks the U.S. to stop, but it doesn't anyways, so it doesn't matter if it's 0% or 100%. Sorry, something this stupid doesn't deserve more of my time. | ||
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SilentchiLL
Germany1405 Posts
On March 02 2014 10:35 Feartheguru wrote: Yes, and I wanted to point out some of the hypocrisy in this thread regarding Russia's actions (and more generally China's actions and their discussion in other threads) and I think it rang pretty true if you see Sub40APM's response above. The person I quoted in hindsight wasn't part of the hypocrisy so my quoting him didn't make much sense, oops .. I pretty much picked one at random since it was mostly a circlejerk. So you're admitting that you didn't even bother reading up on the conversations you're talking about and just threw that in there because you were already convinced that the people were acting like you thought they would anyway? EDIT: And why exactly are you calling Americans hypocrits for things they had no personal involvement in (and which are also a good bit more complicated than you're portraying here and far less bad than the things the USSR/Russia has done), just because they condemn the acts of Putin? Even IF they would have been the ones to, let's say, launch the drone strikes, how exactly would that make them hypocrites? The situations are quite different and you're acting as if every American who condemns Putin's actions doesn't comdemn all (or atleast some) of the stuff you mentioned here. For somebody who talks about "anti-chinese and anti-russian rhetoric" you show a suprising lack of the ability to differentiate and look at the actual people you're talking to instead of just the picture you have of them in your mind, the quote in this post is the best example for that. It seems to me like you're the hypocrite since you condemn and insult people here randomely based on opinions you had before you even decided not to read their posts, so you treat them as you would treat the silly image you have in your head instead of seeing them as individuals. Disappointing, to say the least. | ||
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craaaaack
479 Posts
It also looks like russians (people working for the state like teachers etc.) are being forced to attend a "pro-invasion-of-crimea" demonstration in Moscow tomorrow. The credibility of the sources might be speculated about but if there is a lot of people showing up the probability of it being true seems rather high. I don't see how on any place on earth it might just happen that ONE day after the leader of your country decided to do something people managed to organize rallies. In addition to that, since when do people demonstrate because they are happy with something? both sources in russian/ukrainian: + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + COULD YOU PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC AND STOP ARGUING ABOUT HOW EVIL THE US IS? THANKS | ||
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On March 02 2014 11:00 DeepElemBlues wrote: Only to people who forget or don't care about when the Soviet Union was sending tanks into Czechoslovakia. Or Poland (to their credit even the commie Poles said they'd fight back and the Russians backed down). Or Hungary. Or giving Kim il-Sun the weapons and the green light to invade South Korea. Or invading Afghanistan. Or the fifty or so other things the USSR did that were all worse than anything the US did during the Cold War. Yes, and it's just as annoying to see Russians deny or minimize the crimes of the Soviet Union. The suggestion that the only reason someone would bring up past US aggression is stupid. Most of the time it's just because they are annoyed how hard some people are trying not to remember. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On March 02 2014 11:24 craaaaack wrote: At least in some towns in Ukraine people are being recruited to go to Crimea and take part in pro-russian demonstrations. I can't cite a source for this (I've been told by relatives in Ukraine) but it would fit with what happened earlier at Maidan as people were payed to go to pro-government demonstrations. It also looks like russians (people working for the state like teachers etc.) are being forced to attend a "pro-invasion-of-crimea" demonstration in Moscow tomorrow. The credibility of the sources might be speculated about but if there is a lot of people showing up the probability of it being true seems rather high. I don't see how on any place on earth it might just happen that ONE day after the leader of your country decided to do something people managed to organize rallies. In addition to that, since when do people demonstrate because they are happy with something? both sources in russian/ukrainian: + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + COULD YOU PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC AND STOP ARGUING ABOUT HOW EVIL THE US IS? THANKS So, welcome to Russian way of getting population support? I suppose it *could* be the same in other parts of this world, but whatever. Do note, however, they are not confirmed (though i have a gut feeling that it is right, it always is). And just as planned, Russian media already started "preparing" electorate for whatever the hell will happen next. And in this particular case, i am fairly certain i have 0 clue on who is right T_T (i did have a clue in August 2008, for obvious reasons). On March 02 2014 11:26 hypercube wrote: Yes, and it's just as annoying to see Russians deny or minimize the crimes of the Soviet Union. The suggestion that the only reason someone would bring up past US aggression is stupid. Most of the time it's just because they are annoyed how hard some people are trying not to remember. Let's be honest, in this world nobody is clear, and US are in particularly rather dirty. Russia's envy and tries it's best to catch up, huh! | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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vndestiny
Singapore3440 Posts
On March 02 2014 10:55 Feartheguru wrote: A very tiny portion of the Vietnamese wanted the U.S. (pretty obvious with the huge insurgency lol...) You admit CIA worked with exiles to overthrow the Cuban government enough said. A small group in Nicaragua asked for the U.S. One way of bombing that the country asks the U.S. to stop, but it doesn't anyways, so it doesn't matter if it's 0% or 100%. Sorry, something this stupid doesn't deserve more of my time. Now you are just talking out of your ass =/ | ||
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LongShot27
United States2084 Posts
On March 02 2014 12:19 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Urgh typical paleman. If there is a thread pertaining to show Russia in a negative light, he immediately say "but USA!" in an attempt to change the subject. The USA and Russian both suck I think that period from 1945-1990 and beyond kinda show that | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
"Canada has suspended its engagement in preparations for the G-8 Summit, currently planned for Sochi, and the Canadian ambassador in Moscow is being recalled for consultations," http://news.yahoo.com/canada-says-recalling-ambassador-russia-consultations-003958694--business.html | ||
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