On March 02 2014 17:00 Ghanburighan wrote: Stop responding to this conspiracy theory touting troll. You're just allowing him to fill up this thread with crap.
To all ppl that use brains, stop replying to PaleMan!
On March 02 2014 08:02 Knuty wrote: not saying maiden will make all corruption go away instantly,but when common people in your country protest in the streets while getting beat up , shot and arrested, somethings not right. And to call those people thieves and nazis is just .....
Yet again we return to this. These people almost call fascists themselves. Most of them are the followers of Stepan Bandera who cooperated with Hitler. In the current reality they formed different groups with the most organized and armed called Right Sector.
If you are worried about their small numbers, don't worry. There are several cities like Lviv who publicly support Bandera movement for the last 20 years and all previous governments did not care about this fact. The number of Ukrainian Insurgent Army flags was pretty big + Show Spoiler +
It's just for you to see that they are not "common people" as you said. If you don't believe this video, it is not from ru-media channel. Now you see that this resulted in violence and don't tell that molotov cocktails came from police and protesters did not succeed in destroying 2 Ukrainian armoured personnel carriers (dunno how to call them properly).
Who says that radical forces outnumber peaceful protesters? But those who have guns and ready to kill are a lot more active.
Once I asked in this thread was it the best solution to take authority with the help of violence and protests supporter did not answer. Because most likely he is against Bandera movement violence as well as majority of people in Ukraine. Just give people some time and they will organise defences against radicals themselves. Russian forces are needless.
The issue here is that none of us can say which side was firing those shots. On one hand you have a special unit on edge with orders we don't know about on the other side you have a protesting mob for which the best thing to happen is getting shot at to have the world on their side when it comes to an escalation. We simply don't know.
In what book is a "special unit on edge" a "eu-sniper"?
I wasn't talking about who shot first. I was talking about where they came from.
I was talking about Berkut when I mentioned the special units on edge.
Do you know where that specific shot came from? No, you don't and I don't know either. Do you know whether Berkut was ordered to shoot any civilians? Only confirmed armed people? People who appear to be armed? If they do start firing the best possible thing for the protesters as an entity is if someone unarmed and as innocent as possible being shot. It's also the worst thing possible for the "police" side in this scenario.
Was it a single policeman not giving a fuck and shooting a medic for fun or out of hatred? Was it a general order? Was the shot coming from someone completely different? We. Just. Don't. Know. That's why arguing either side is utterly pointless at this stage.
Sigh, okay. So where in all that is the german/french/british sniper?
There wasn't german/french and other foreigners, there were only our, local policemans and snipers.
Which is obvious and fine, since they also did their orders.
As i said, wether i agree to their actions or not, does not matter in this regard. It's purely about a russian living in a fantasy world about the EU sending snipers into the ukraine to shoot protesters.
Of course shooting at demonstrators was needed especially for people to say that "russian living in a fantasy" and not because there were wounded policemen with rifle shots before police got permission to use guns and they had to defend. Ukrainian policemen just wanted to escalate conflict, to kill their own Ukrainian brothers, to get threat at their families and so on... political kamikaze in other words.
On March 02 2014 03:39 kukarachaa wrote: I am not 100% but haven't a lot of members of President's party left Kiev, so basically half of the Ukraine wasn't represented or was represented in a very limited capacity when those decisions were made?
Correct. To be more correct they were forced to leave Rada.
328 votes, almost everyone present voted yes. There were lots of empty seats though. But whatever their vote, the decision would have passed anyway.
Do you check the date? It was 22th. And resonant decisions like replacing constitutional courts were made later after Regions party left. Why they could stay in Rada before? Because Berkut defended them until Yanukovich commanded to stop defending buildings. Moreover the proper procedure of impeachment did not happen, it's really a question why. Probably Maidan chiefs wanted authority so quick that they bypassed impeachment process.
On March 02 2014 08:02 Knuty wrote: not saying maiden will make all corruption go away instantly,but when common people in your country protest in the streets while getting beat up , shot and arrested, somethings not right. And to call those people thieves and nazis is just .....
don't make me search youtube to show you HOW potesters treated in YOUR country
Go find one where medics are shot by police snipers Go find one where there leaders are kidnapped and tortured Go find one where they are shot at with live ammo.
Oh wait you cant....
Go find one where protesters crush police with a tractor. Go find one where protesters throw stone paving into police. Go find one where protesters throw molotov cocktails and burn police. Go find one where protesters shower police for a long time with water during winter. Go find one where protesters succeeded in assaulting of government buildings.
I can prove any of these statements for Maidan protesters.
The United States condemns the Russian Federation's invasion and occupation of Ukrainian territory, and its violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity in full contravention of Russia’s obligations under the UN Charter, the Helsinki Final Act, its 1997 military basing agreement with Ukraine, and the 1994 Budapest Memorandum. This action is a threat to the peace and security of Ukraine, and the wider region.
I spoke with President Turchynov this morning to assure him he had the strong support of the United States and commend the new government for showing the utmost restraint in the face of the clear and present danger to the integrity of their state, and the assaults on their sovereignty. We also urge that the Government of Ukraine continue to make clear, as it has from throughout this crisis, its commitment to protect the rights of all Ukrainians and uphold its international obligations.
As President Obama has said, we call for Russia to withdraw its forces back to bases, refrain from interference elsewhere in Ukraine, and support international mediation to address any legitimate issues regarding the protection of minority rights or security.
From day one, we've made clear that we recognize and respect Russia’s ties to Ukraine and its concerns about treatment of ethnic Russians. But these concerns can and must be addressed in a way that does not violate Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, by directly engaging the Government of Ukraine.
Unless immediate and concrete steps are taken by Russia to deescalate tensions, the effect on U.S.-Russian relations and on Russia’s international standing will be profound. I convened a call this afternoon with my counterparts from around the world, to coordinate on next steps. We were unified in our assessment and will work closely together to support Ukraine and its people at this historic hour.
In the coming days, emergency consultations will commence in the UN Security Council, the North Atlantic Council, and the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe in defense of the underlying principles critical to the maintenance of international peace and security. We continue to believe in the importance of an international presence from the UN or OSCE to gather facts, monitor for violations or abuses and help protect rights. As a leading member of both organizations, Russia can actively participate and make sure its interests are taken into account.
The people of Ukraine want nothing more than the right to define their own future – peacefully, politically and in stability. They must have the international community’s full support at this vital moment. The United States stands with them, as we have for 22 years, in seeing their rights restored.
The bolded part seems to communicate to Russia that the US accepts Russian interests in its near-abroad, something that a large number of US allies (Baltics, Poland, Georgia, etc) will be very worried about. Secondly, it gives some legitimacy to the ethnic minority argument.
Especially the Baltics, at least you guys were smart enough to get into NATO asap. Otherwise I am sure ethnic Russians oppressed by you fascism loving fascists would be demanding to join Russia, now that they have 'legal' ability to welcome them without anything messy like referendums or negotiations with their neighbors.
Under Russia's existing law, a neighbouring state would have to sign a treaty with Russia to allow part of its territory to become a new "subject" of the Russian Federation.
But Mikhail Yemelyanov, deputy leader of A Just Russia, said the law had been drafted for peaceful times, and did not go far enough for situations where a state was falling apart.
"In conditions where a neighbouring state is disintegrating I don't think the Russian Federation should be restricted in its ability to accept a territory whose people have expressed a clear will and desire to be in Russia," he said.
The United States condemns the Russian Federation's invasion and occupation of Ukrainian territory, and its violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity in full contravention of Russia’s obligations under the UN Charter, the Helsinki Final Act, its 1997 military basing agreement with Ukraine, and the 1994 Budapest Memorandum. This action is a threat to the peace and security of Ukraine, and the wider region.
I spoke with President Turchynov this morning to assure him he had the strong support of the United States and commend the new government for showing the utmost restraint in the face of the clear and present danger to the integrity of their state, and the assaults on their sovereignty. We also urge that the Government of Ukraine continue to make clear, as it has from throughout this crisis, its commitment to protect the rights of all Ukrainians and uphold its international obligations.
As President Obama has said, we call for Russia to withdraw its forces back to bases, refrain from interference elsewhere in Ukraine, and support international mediation to address any legitimate issues regarding the protection of minority rights or security.
From day one, we've made clear that we recognize and respect Russia’s ties to Ukraine and its concerns about treatment of ethnic Russians. But these concerns can and must be addressed in a way that does not violate Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, by directly engaging the Government of Ukraine.
Unless immediate and concrete steps are taken by Russia to deescalate tensions, the effect on U.S.-Russian relations and on Russia’s international standing will be profound. I convened a call this afternoon with my counterparts from around the world, to coordinate on next steps. We were unified in our assessment and will work closely together to support Ukraine and its people at this historic hour.
In the coming days, emergency consultations will commence in the UN Security Council, the North Atlantic Council, and the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe in defense of the underlying principles critical to the maintenance of international peace and security. We continue to believe in the importance of an international presence from the UN or OSCE to gather facts, monitor for violations or abuses and help protect rights. As a leading member of both organizations, Russia can actively participate and make sure its interests are taken into account.
The people of Ukraine want nothing more than the right to define their own future – peacefully, politically and in stability. They must have the international community’s full support at this vital moment. The United States stands with them, as we have for 22 years, in seeing their rights restored.
The bolded part seems to communicate to Russia that the US accepts Russian interests in its near-abroad, something that a large number of US allies (Baltics, Poland, Georgia, etc) will be very worried about. Secondly, it gives some legitimacy to the ethnic minority argument.
Especially the Baltics, at least you guys were smart enough to get into NATO asap. Otherwise I am sure ethnic Russians oppressed by you fascism loving fascists would be demanding to join Russia, now that they have 'legal' ability to welcome them without anything messy like referendums or negotiations with their neighbors.
they have nazi veterans parades every year i don't know why EU is not taking any action
On March 02 2014 08:02 Knuty wrote: not saying maiden will make all corruption go away instantly,but when common people in your country protest in the streets while getting beat up , shot and arrested, somethings not right. And to call those people thieves and nazis is just .....
Yet again we return to this. These people almost call fascists themselves. Most of them are the followers of Stepan Bandera who cooperated with Hitler. In the current reality they formed different groups with the most organized and armed called Right Sector.
If you are worried about their small numbers, don't worry. There are several cities like Lviv who publicly support Bandera movement for the last 20 years and all previous governments did not care about this fact. The number of Ukrainian Insurgent Army flags was pretty big + Show Spoiler +
http://youtu.be/1Qqpdo5UiPo
It's just for you to see that they are not "common people" as you said. If you don't believe this video, it is not from ru-media channel. Now you see that this resulted in violence and don't tell that molotov cocktails came from police and protesters did not succeed in destroying 2 Ukrainian armoured personnel carriers (dunno how to call them properly).
Who says that radical forces outnumber peaceful protesters? But those who have guns and ready to kill are a lot more active.
Once I asked in this thread was it the best solution to take authority with the help of violence and protests supporter did not answer. Because most likely he is against Bandera movement violence as well as majority of people in Ukraine. Just give people some time and they will organise defences against radicals themselves. Russian forces are needless.
The issue here is that none of us can say which side was firing those shots. On one hand you have a special unit on edge with orders we don't know about on the other side you have a protesting mob for which the best thing to happen is getting shot at to have the world on their side when it comes to an escalation. We simply don't know.
In what book is a "special unit on edge" a "eu-sniper"?
I wasn't talking about who shot first. I was talking about where they came from.
I was talking about Berkut when I mentioned the special units on edge.
Do you know where that specific shot came from? No, you don't and I don't know either. Do you know whether Berkut was ordered to shoot any civilians? Only confirmed armed people? People who appear to be armed? If they do start firing the best possible thing for the protesters as an entity is if someone unarmed and as innocent as possible being shot. It's also the worst thing possible for the "police" side in this scenario.
Was it a single policeman not giving a fuck and shooting a medic for fun or out of hatred? Was it a general order? Was the shot coming from someone completely different? We. Just. Don't. Know. That's why arguing either side is utterly pointless at this stage.
Sigh, okay. So where in all that is the german/french/british sniper?
There wasn't german/french and other foreigners, there were only our, local policemans and snipers.
Which is obvious and fine, since they also did their orders.
As i said, wether i agree to their actions or not, does not matter in this regard. It's purely about a russian living in a fantasy world about the EU sending snipers into the ukraine to shoot protesters.
Of course shooting at demonstrators was needed especially for people to say that "russian living in a fantasy" and not because there were wounded policemen with rifle shots before police got permission to use guns and they had to defend. Ukrainian policemen just wanted to escalate conflict, to kill their own Ukrainian brothers, to get threat at their families and so on... political kamikaze in other words.
On March 02 2014 03:39 kukarachaa wrote: I am not 100% but haven't a lot of members of President's party left Kiev, so basically half of the Ukraine wasn't represented or was represented in a very limited capacity when those decisions were made?
Correct. To be more correct they were forced to leave Rada.
328 votes, almost everyone present voted yes. There were lots of empty seats though. But whatever their vote, the decision would have passed anyway.
Do you check the date? It was 22th. And resonant decisions like replacing constitutional courts were made later after Regions party left. Why they could stay in Rada before? Because Berkut defended them until Yanukovich commanded to stop defending buildings. Moreover the proper procedure of impeachment did not happen, it's really a question why. Probably Maidan chiefs wanted authority so quick that they bypassed impeachment process.
On March 02 2014 08:02 Knuty wrote: not saying maiden will make all corruption go away instantly,but when common people in your country protest in the streets while getting beat up , shot and arrested, somethings not right. And to call those people thieves and nazis is just .....
don't make me search youtube to show you HOW potesters treated in YOUR country
Go find one where medics are shot by police snipers Go find one where there leaders are kidnapped and tortured Go find one where they are shot at with live ammo.
Oh wait you cant....
Go find one where protesters crush police with a tractor. Go find one where protesters throw stone paving into police. Go find one where protesters throw molotov cocktails and burn police. Go find one where protesters shower police for a long time with water during winter. Go find one where protesters succeeded in assaulting of government buildings.
I can prove any of these statements for Maidan protesters.
Yanoukovich got impeached live on television. Why do you keep denying it?
I don't like Bandera, but for clarification: When Germany invaded the USSR, Bandera hoped the Germans would create an independent Ukraine. However he became quickly disillusioned at the intentions of the nazis and got arrested and was sent to a concentration camp for the duration of the war. He is not a nazi or a fascist, just a radical Ukrainian nationalist.
On March 02 2014 08:02 Knuty wrote: not saying maiden will make all corruption go away instantly,but when common people in your country protest in the streets while getting beat up , shot and arrested, somethings not right. And to call those people thieves and nazis is just .....
don't make me search youtube to show you HOW potesters treated in YOUR country
Go find one where medics are shot by police snipers Go find one where there leaders are kidnapped and tortured Go find one where they are shot at with live ammo.
Oh wait you cant....
Man, this is pathetic. Medics shot by police snipers? Any proof? The police started firing live ammo long after several policemen died to gunshot wounds. He doesn't need to go find any videos, since you are spouting your fantasies.
You just lying. Here is the medic-volonteer girl shot by sniper
so where is the proof it was police sniper? and what benefits for police this shot will bring? only negatives - crowd will be even more angry and kill policeman after that
and who is benefactor if crowd is more angry and impulsive? definitely not Yanykovich and polivce
and shots in the neck are trademark of british snipers
srsly, ppl can't use their brains nowadays
great stuff.
Him going a step further and trying to claim things he can't prove doesn't make the initial claim that there is no proof for either side invalid.
What we know is that a girl dressed up as a medic got shot in the neck area, was filmed, used her Twitter to post "I'm dieing" and was proclaimed fine a day or two later. Those are the known facts.
Anything that goes beyond that are speculations. It's really that simple. Despite Mr. PaleMan going over the top in a lot of cases there simply is no proof for a Berkut sniper shooting said medic. I was among the first to call it disgusting that "they" are shooting unarmed civilians but if I'm completely honest there is no rational argument besides "Berkut has snipers" backing it up when someone tries to argue "The other side has people with guns, too!"
On March 02 2014 08:02 Knuty wrote: not saying maiden will make all corruption go away instantly,but when common people in your country protest in the streets while getting beat up , shot and arrested, somethings not right. And to call those people thieves and nazis is just .....
don't make me search youtube to show you HOW potesters treated in YOUR country
Go find one where medics are shot by police snipers Go find one where there leaders are kidnapped and tortured Go find one where they are shot at with live ammo.
Oh wait you cant....
Man, this is pathetic. Medics shot by police snipers? Any proof? The police started firing live ammo long after several policemen died to gunshot wounds. He doesn't need to go find any videos, since you are spouting your fantasies.
so where is the proof it was police sniper? and what benefits for police this shot will bring? only negatives - crowd will be even more angry and kill policeman after that
and who is benefactor if crowd is more angry and impulsive? definitely not Yanykovich and polivce
and shots in the neck are trademark of british snipers
srsly, ppl can't use their brains nowadays
great stuff.
Him going a step further and trying to claim things he can't prove doesn't make the initial claim that there is no proof for either side invalid.
What we know is that a girl dressed up as a medic got shot in the neck area, was filmed, used her Twitter to post "I'm dieing" and was proclaimed fine a day or two later. Those are the known facts.
Anything that goes beyond that are speculations. It's really that simple. Despite Mr. PaleMan going over the top in a lot of cases there simply is no proof for a Berkut sniper shooting said medic. I was among the first to call it disgusting that "they" are shooting unarmed civilians but if I'm completely honest there is no rational argument besides "Berkut has snipers" backing it up when someone tries to argue "The other side has people with guns, too!"
totally agree How do we know it was berkut sniper who shot her? It could be one of the riots. It could be some random citizen who got drunk and started to shoot left n right. May be it was berkut who was aiming at the guy with a gun but hit her accidently. God damn, we don't even know if it was ketchup lol It's hard to believe in anything that media feeds us nowadays. We are living in a century where information is the most important weapon you know...
thats waht i'm trying to say, but guys like Sub40IQ already made up their minds and everything which not corresponding with their point of view is fake, troll, propaganda etc.
On March 02 2014 08:02 Knuty wrote: not saying maiden will make all corruption go away instantly,but when common people in your country protest in the streets while getting beat up , shot and arrested, somethings not right. And to call those people thieves and nazis is just .....
don't make me search youtube to show you HOW potesters treated in YOUR country
Go find one where medics are shot by police snipers Go find one where there leaders are kidnapped and tortured Go find one where they are shot at with live ammo.
Oh wait you cant....
Man, this is pathetic. Medics shot by police snipers? Any proof? The police started firing live ammo long after several policemen died to gunshot wounds. He doesn't need to go find any videos, since you are spouting your fantasies.
so where is the proof it was police sniper? and what benefits for police this shot will bring? only negatives - crowd will be even more angry and kill policeman after that
and who is benefactor if crowd is more angry and impulsive? definitely not Yanykovich and polivce
and shots in the neck are trademark of british snipers
srsly, ppl can't use their brains nowadays
great stuff.
Him going a step further and trying to claim things he can't prove doesn't make the initial claim that there is no proof for either side invalid.
What we know is that a girl dressed up as a medic got shot in the neck area, was filmed, used her Twitter to post "I'm dieing" and was proclaimed fine a day or two later. Those are the known facts.
Anything that goes beyond that are speculations. It's really that simple. Despite Mr. PaleMan going over the top in a lot of cases there simply is no proof for a Berkut sniper shooting said medic. I was among the first to call it disgusting that "they" are shooting unarmed civilians but if I'm completely honest there is no rational argument besides "Berkut has snipers" backing it up when someone tries to argue "The other side has people with guns, too!"
Well thats nice to see, at least we went from British spies and Ukrainian fascists created fake crisis to we dont know what happened, anything could have happened. Progress.
Процедура імпічменту * не менш як 226 народних депутатів ініціюють питання про усунення Президента України з поста; * парламент створює спеціальну тимчасову слідчу комісію, до якої входять спеціальний прокурор і спеціальні слідчі; * висновки і пропозиції тимчасової слідчої комісії розглядаються на засіданні Верховної Ради України; * за наявності підстав не менш як 300 народних депутатів приймають рішення про звинувачення Президента України; * Конституційний суд виносить висновок щодо додержання конституційної процедури розслідування і розгляду справи про імпічмент; * Верховний Суд України підтверджує наявність у діях обвинувачуваного ознак державної зради чи іншого злочину; * не менш як 338 парламентаріїв приймають рішення про усунення Президента України з поста; * виконання обов'язків Президента України покладається на Прем'єр-міністра України
On March 02 2014 17:43 PaleMan wrote: thats waht i'm trying to say, but guys like Sub40IQ already made up their minds and everything which is not correspondents with their point of view is fake, troll, propaganda etc.
i blame TV
I understand that this is a touchy subject but please keep the personal attacks and insults out. Any attacks will be actioned from page 83 onwards.
Good piece on the Information War being conducted:
As specialists in Russian and Ukrainian nationalism have been predicting for weeks, the claim that the Ukrainian revolution is a “nationalist coup,” as Yanukovych, in Russian exile, said on Friday, has become a pretext for Russian intervention. This now appears to be underway in the Crimea, where the Russian flag has been raised over the regional parliament and gunmen have occupied the airports. Meanwhile, Russia has put army battle groups on alert and sent naval cruisers from the Baltic Sea to the Black Sea.
Whatever course the Russian intervention may take, it is not an attempt to stop a fascist coup, since nothing of the kind has taken place. What has taken place is a popular revolution, with all of the messiness, confusion, and opposition that entails. The young leaders of the Maidan, some of them radical leftists, have risked their lives to oppose a regime that represented, at an extreme, the inequalities that we criticize at home. They have an experience of revolution that we do not. Part of that experience, unfortunately, is that Westerners are provincial, gullible, and reactionary.
Thus far the new Ukrainian authorities have reacted with remarkable calm. It is entirely possible that a Russian attack on Ukraine will provoke a strong nationalist reaction: indeed, it would be rather surprising if it did not, since invasions have a way of bringing out the worst in people. If this is what does happen, we should see events for what they are: an entirely unprovoked attack by one nation upon the sovereign territory of another.
Insofar as we have accepted the presentation of the revolution as a fascist coup, we have delayed policies that might have stopped the killing earlier, and helped prepare the way for war. Insofar as we wish for peace and democracy, we are going to have to begin by getting the story right. Read the rest here.
Процедура імпічменту * не менш як 226 народних депутатів ініціюють питання про усунення Президента України з поста; * парламент створює спеціальну тимчасову слідчу комісію, до якої входять спеціальний прокурор і спеціальні слідчі; * висновки і пропозиції тимчасової слідчої комісії розглядаються на засіданні Верховної Ради України; * за наявності підстав не менш як 300 народних депутатів приймають рішення про звинувачення Президента України; * Конституційний суд виносить висновок щодо додержання конституційної процедури розслідування і розгляду справи про імпічмент; * Верховний Суд України підтверджує наявність у діях обвинувачуваного ознак державної зради чи іншого злочину; * не менш як 338 парламентаріїв приймають рішення про усунення Президента України з поста; * виконання обов'язків Президента України покладається на Прем'єр-міністра України
Here is the actual text of the constitution, not a wikipedia page.
Стаття 111. Президент України може бути усунений з поста Верховною Радою України в порядку імпічменту у разі вчинення ним державної зради або іншого злочину.
{Офіційне тлумачення частини першої статті 111 див. в Рішенні Конституційного Суду № 19-рп/2003 від 10.12.2003}
Питання про усунення Президента України з поста в порядку імпічменту ініціюється більшістю від конституційного складу Верховної Ради України.
Для проведення розслідування Верховна Рада України створює спеціальну тимчасову слідчу комісію, до складу якої включаються спеціальний прокурор і спеціальні слідчі.
Висновки і пропозиції тимчасової слідчої комісії розглядаються на засіданні Верховної Ради України.
За наявності підстав Верховна Рада України не менш як двома третинами від її конституційного складу приймає рішення про звинувачення Президента України.
Рішення про усунення Президента України з поста в порядку імпічменту приймається Верховною Радою України не менш як трьома четвертими від її конституційного складу після перевірки справи Конституційним Судом України і отримання його висновку щодо додержання конституційної процедури розслідування і розгляду справи про імпічмент та отримання висновку Верховного Суду України про те, що діяння, в яких звинувачується Президент України, містять ознаки державної зради або іншого злочину.
Процедура імпічменту * не менш як 226 народних депутатів ініціюють питання про усунення Президента України з поста; * парламент створює спеціальну тимчасову слідчу комісію, до якої входять спеціальний прокурор і спеціальні слідчі; * висновки і пропозиції тимчасової слідчої комісії розглядаються на засіданні Верховної Ради України; * за наявності підстав не менш як 300 народних депутатів приймають рішення про звинувачення Президента України; * Конституційний суд виносить висновок щодо додержання конституційної процедури розслідування і розгляду справи про імпічмент; * Верховний Суд України підтверджує наявність у діях обвинувачуваного ознак державної зради чи іншого злочину; * не менш як 338 парламентаріїв приймають рішення про усунення Президента України з поста; * виконання обов'язків Президента України покладається на Прем'єр-міністра України
Here is the actual text of the constitution, not a wikipedia page.
Стаття 111. Президент України може бути усунений з поста Верховною Радою України в порядку імпічменту у разі вчинення ним державної зради або іншого злочину.
{Офіційне тлумачення частини першої статті 111 див. в Рішенні Конституційного Суду № 19-рп/2003 від 10.12.2003}
Питання про усунення Президента України з поста в порядку імпічменту ініціюється більшістю від конституційного складу Верховної Ради України.
Для проведення розслідування Верховна Рада України створює спеціальну тимчасову слідчу комісію, до складу якої включаються спеціальний прокурор і спеціальні слідчі.
Висновки і пропозиції тимчасової слідчої комісії розглядаються на засіданні Верховної Ради України.
За наявності підстав Верховна Рада України не менш як двома третинами від її конституційного складу приймає рішення про звинувачення Президента України.
Рішення про усунення Президента України з поста в порядку імпічменту приймається Верховною Радою України не менш як трьома четвертими від її конституційного складу після перевірки справи Конституційним Судом України і отримання його висновку щодо додержання конституційної процедури розслідування і розгляду справи про імпічмент та отримання висновку Верховного Суду України про те, що діяння, в яких звинувачується Президент України, містять ознаки державної зради або іншого злочину.
I will just post google translate of this so that you won't say that I composed it: The decision to remove the President of Ukraine from office on impeachment adopted by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine of not less than three-fourths of its constitutional composition after checking case the Constitutional Court of Ukraine and getting his opinion on compliance with the constitutional procedure of investigation and impeachment proceedings and obtaining the opinion of the Supreme Court of Ukraine that of which the accused the President of Ukraine, contain elements of state treason or other crime.
Only Verhovna Rada of Ukraine made decision without any court.
On March 02 2014 18:23 PaleMan wrote: people of Crimea protest against invasion!
oh wait...
doesn't matter if true or staged propaganda, like RT reported demonstrations in eastern Ukraine. Russia has essentially invaded Ukraine already and broken number or international laws and the 94 promise to safeguard Ukraine's sovereignty. Its basicly the same as if USA suddenly just landed troops in St.Peterburg and called its helping the population there. Doesnt matter how some of the population reacts to invaders.
While crimea used to belong to russia, so did a lot of places used to belong to a lot of nations during the extent of human history. Should scandinavians invade russia because the first russian nation was formed by viking descendants?
On March 02 2014 08:02 Knuty wrote: not saying maiden will make all corruption go away instantly,but when common people in your country protest in the streets while getting beat up , shot and arrested, somethings not right. And to call those people thieves and nazis is just .....
don't make me search youtube to show you HOW potesters treated in YOUR country
Go find one where medics are shot by police snipers Go find one where there leaders are kidnapped and tortured Go find one where they are shot at with live ammo.
Oh wait you cant....
Man, this is pathetic. Medics shot by police snipers? Any proof? The police started firing live ammo long after several policemen died to gunshot wounds. He doesn't need to go find any videos, since you are spouting your fantasies.
so where is the proof it was police sniper? and what benefits for police this shot will bring? only negatives - crowd will be even more angry and kill policeman after that
and who is benefactor if crowd is more angry and impulsive? definitely not Yanykovich and polivce
and shots in the neck are trademark of british snipers
srsly, ppl can't use their brains nowadays
great stuff.
Him going a step further and trying to claim things he can't prove doesn't make the initial claim that there is no proof for either side invalid.
What we know is that a girl dressed up as a medic got shot in the neck area, was filmed, used her Twitter to post "I'm dieing" and was proclaimed fine a day or two later. Those are the known facts.
Anything that goes beyond that are speculations. It's really that simple. Despite Mr. PaleMan going over the top in a lot of cases there simply is no proof for a Berkut sniper shooting said medic. I was among the first to call it disgusting that "they" are shooting unarmed civilians but if I'm completely honest there is no rational argument besides "Berkut has snipers" backing it up when someone tries to argue "The other side has people with guns, too!"
totally agree How do we know it was berkut sniper who shot her? It could be one of the riots. It could be some random citizen who got drunk and started to shoot left n right. May be it was berkut who was aiming at the guy with a gun but hit her accidently. God damn, we don't even know if it was ketchup lol It's hard to believe in anything that media feeds us nowadays. We are living in a century where information is the most important weapon you know...
And who goes onto social media networks to post that they are dieing? I mean if I was shot in the neck and fighting for my life, the last thing I would do would be to pull out my phone and post that I am dieing on twitter.
What is wrong with young people today? Next people will be setting up livestreams of themselves dieing when they get stabbed or shot.
On March 02 2014 08:02 Knuty wrote: not saying maiden will make all corruption go away instantly,but when common people in your country protest in the streets while getting beat up , shot and arrested, somethings not right. And to call those people thieves and nazis is just .....
don't make me search youtube to show you HOW potesters treated in YOUR country
Go find one where medics are shot by police snipers Go find one where there leaders are kidnapped and tortured Go find one where they are shot at with live ammo.
Oh wait you cant....
Man, this is pathetic. Medics shot by police snipers? Any proof? The police started firing live ammo long after several policemen died to gunshot wounds. He doesn't need to go find any videos, since you are spouting your fantasies.
so where is the proof it was police sniper? and what benefits for police this shot will bring? only negatives - crowd will be even more angry and kill policeman after that
and who is benefactor if crowd is more angry and impulsive? definitely not Yanykovich and polivce
and shots in the neck are trademark of british snipers
srsly, ppl can't use their brains nowadays
great stuff.
Him going a step further and trying to claim things he can't prove doesn't make the initial claim that there is no proof for either side invalid.
What we know is that a girl dressed up as a medic got shot in the neck area, was filmed, used her Twitter to post "I'm dieing" and was proclaimed fine a day or two later. Those are the known facts.
Anything that goes beyond that are speculations. It's really that simple. Despite Mr. PaleMan going over the top in a lot of cases there simply is no proof for a Berkut sniper shooting said medic. I was among the first to call it disgusting that "they" are shooting unarmed civilians but if I'm completely honest there is no rational argument besides "Berkut has snipers" backing it up when someone tries to argue "The other side has people with guns, too!"
totally agree How do we know it was berkut sniper who shot her? It could be one of the riots. It could be some random citizen who got drunk and started to shoot left n right. May be it was berkut who was aiming at the guy with a gun but hit her accidently. God damn, we don't even know if it was ketchup lol It's hard to believe in anything that media feeds us nowadays. We are living in a century where information is the most important weapon you know...
And who goes onto social media networks to post that they are dieing? I mean if I was shot in the neck and fighting for my life, the last thing I would do would be to pull out my phone and post that I am dieing on twitter.
What is wrong with young people today? Next people will be setting up livestreams of themselves dieing when they get stabbed or shot.
The United States condemns the Russian Federation's invasion and occupation of Ukrainian territory, and its violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity in full contravention of Russia’s obligations under the UN Charter, the Helsinki Final Act, its 1997 military basing agreement with Ukraine, and the 1994 Budapest Memorandum. This action is a threat to the peace and security of Ukraine, and the wider region.
I spoke with President Turchynov this morning to assure him he had the strong support of the United States and commend the new government for showing the utmost restraint in the face of the clear and present danger to the integrity of their state, and the assaults on their sovereignty. We also urge that the Government of Ukraine continue to make clear, as it has from throughout this crisis, its commitment to protect the rights of all Ukrainians and uphold its international obligations.
As President Obama has said, we call for Russia to withdraw its forces back to bases, refrain from interference elsewhere in Ukraine, and support international mediation to address any legitimate issues regarding the protection of minority rights or security.
From day one, we've made clear that we recognize and respect Russia’s ties to Ukraine and its concerns about treatment of ethnic Russians. But these concerns can and must be addressed in a way that does not violate Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, by directly engaging the Government of Ukraine.
Unless immediate and concrete steps are taken by Russia to deescalate tensions, the effect on U.S.-Russian relations and on Russia’s international standing will be profound. I convened a call this afternoon with my counterparts from around the world, to coordinate on next steps. We were unified in our assessment and will work closely together to support Ukraine and its people at this historic hour.
In the coming days, emergency consultations will commence in the UN Security Council, the North Atlantic Council, and the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe in defense of the underlying principles critical to the maintenance of international peace and security. We continue to believe in the importance of an international presence from the UN or OSCE to gather facts, monitor for violations or abuses and help protect rights. As a leading member of both organizations, Russia can actively participate and make sure its interests are taken into account.
The people of Ukraine want nothing more than the right to define their own future – peacefully, politically and in stability. They must have the international community’s full support at this vital moment. The United States stands with them, as we have for 22 years, in seeing their rights restored.
The bolded part seems to communicate to Russia that the US accepts Russian interests in its near-abroad, something that a large number of US allies (Baltics, Poland, Georgia, etc) will be very worried about. Secondly, it gives some legitimacy to the ethnic minority argument.
Especially the Baltics, at least you guys were smart enough to get into NATO asap. Otherwise I am sure ethnic Russians oppressed by you fascism loving fascists would be demanding to join Russia, now that they have 'legal' ability to welcome them without anything messy like referendums or negotiations with their neighbors.
Under Russia's existing law, a neighbouring state would have to sign a treaty with Russia to allow part of its territory to become a new "subject" of the Russian Federation.
But Mikhail Yemelyanov, deputy leader of A Just Russia, said the law had been drafted for peaceful times, and did not go far enough for situations where a state was falling apart.
"In conditions where a neighbouring state is disintegrating I don't think the Russian Federation should be restricted in its ability to accept a territory whose people have expressed a clear will and desire to be in Russia," he said.
do you like honestly believe for example if Russia tried to take over someone like Lithuania again, cuz they need to protect their russian speakers ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^_^^^^^, NATO would lift a finger ? no way. It would be all this political talk and nothing more. "please dont cross our red lines pretty please"
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