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Ukraine Crisis - Page 117

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There is a new policy in effect in this thread. Anyone not complying will be moderated.

New policy, please read before posting:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21393711
Shield
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Bulgaria4824 Posts
March 01 2014 21:48 GMT
#2321
On March 02 2014 06:47 r.Evo wrote:
UK tl;dr: Concerned with sovereignty of Ukraine, supports new Ukrainian government, Russia should calm down.


It seems like only the UK acts reasonably so far.
r.Evo
Profile Joined August 2006
Germany14080 Posts
March 01 2014 21:49 GMT
#2322
France tl;dr: Please no attitudes that already lead us to ww2, urging everyone involved to show restraint and respect.
"We don't make mistakes here, we call it happy little accidents." ~Bob Ross
DeepElemBlues
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States5079 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-01 21:50:35
March 01 2014 21:50 GMT
#2323
On March 02 2014 06:48 darkness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2014 06:47 r.Evo wrote:
UK tl;dr: Concerned with sovereignty of Ukraine, supports new Ukrainian government, Russia should calm down.


It seems like only the UK acts reasonably so far.


All of these statements by individual Western governments have been worked out with each other beforehand; the US/UK/France know and approve of what Germany is going to say, Germany/UK/France know what the US is going to say and approves, etc. etc. They're on the phone with each other 24/7 right now.
no place i'd rather be than the satellite of love
r.Evo
Profile Joined August 2006
Germany14080 Posts
March 01 2014 21:50 GMT
#2324
It's pretty much all the same in a nutshell, yeah.
"We don't make mistakes here, we call it happy little accidents." ~Bob Ross
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
March 01 2014 21:50 GMT
#2325
On March 02 2014 03:15 Twoflowers wrote:
Does anyone here know how far the crimean autonomy goes? Could they request russian assistance or a referendum for independence on their own?

No. They can't have any foreign policy on their own, and only all-Ukrainian referendums can be held according to the Constitution.
radiatoren
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Denmark1907 Posts
March 01 2014 21:52 GMT
#2326
US primary point: "actions speak larger than words"
USA asking for international observers and sending of diplomatic envoy to Crimea. The rest seems relatively inocuous.
France calling for a dialogue not from another age (unmistakable talking about the world wars). Ukraines neighbors and France/UK/EU involvement in Ukraine is called for by France.
Repeat before me
TheBloodyDwarf
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
Finland7524 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-01 21:53:42
March 01 2014 21:53 GMT
#2327
All those long speeches in UN could have been way shorter:

"We want to find peaceful way to solve situation in Ukraine"
Fusilero: "I still can't believe he did that, like dude what the fuck there's fandom and then there's what he did like holy shit. I still see it when I close my eyes." <- reaction to the original drunk santa post which later caught on
r.Evo
Profile Joined August 2006
Germany14080 Posts
March 01 2014 21:53 GMT
#2328
On March 02 2014 06:52 radiatoren wrote:
US primary point: "actions speak larger than words"
USA asking for international observers and sending of diplomatic envoy to Crimea. The rest seems relatively inocuous.
France calling for a dialogue not from another age (unmistakable talking about the world wars). Ukraines neighbors and France/UK/EU involvement in Ukraine is called for by France.

The US statement was slightly awkward imo, to me it came across as "You're always bitching at us in here when we do this kind of shit (and we get away with it anyway) and now you do it yourselves wtf?" =P
"We don't make mistakes here, we call it happy little accidents." ~Bob Ross
radiatoren
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Denmark1907 Posts
March 01 2014 21:57 GMT
#2329
On March 02 2014 06:53 r.Evo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2014 06:52 radiatoren wrote:
US primary point: "actions speak larger than words"
USA asking for international observers and sending of diplomatic envoy to Crimea. The rest seems relatively inocuous.
France calling for a dialogue not from another age (unmistakable talking about the world wars). Ukraines neighbors and France/UK/EU involvement in Ukraine is called for by France.

The US statement was slightly awkward imo, to me it came across as "You're always bitching at us in here when we do this kind of shit (and we get away with it anyway) and now you do it yourselves wtf?" =P

Russias representative seemed very riled up and to some degree US statement seemed to mirror that (I suspect they have been discussing loudly before the camera was turned on). UK and France seemed like more or less canned statements.
Repeat before me
DeepElemBlues
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States5079 Posts
March 01 2014 21:59 GMT
#2330
On March 02 2014 06:53 r.Evo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2014 06:52 radiatoren wrote:
US primary point: "actions speak larger than words"
USA asking for international observers and sending of diplomatic envoy to Crimea. The rest seems relatively inocuous.
France calling for a dialogue not from another age (unmistakable talking about the world wars). Ukraines neighbors and France/UK/EU involvement in Ukraine is called for by France.

The US statement was slightly awkward imo, to me it came across as "You're always bitching at us in here when we do this kind of shit (and we get away with it anyway) and now you do it yourselves wtf?" =P


That's because other than Iraq all the times the peanut gallery has bitched at the US the US has had Europe on its side. The US has done it and gotten away with it once since the UN was created, Russia's done it over a dozen times since 1945. Most of those were back when the hammer and sickle were flying but it's still Russia.
no place i'd rather be than the satellite of love
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6342 Posts
March 01 2014 22:00 GMT
#2331
On March 02 2014 06:43 DeepElemBlues wrote:
I guess next time America wants to invade a country it'll just pass a law saying it's protecting Americans in that country and everything will be fine, right?

Right?

Bueller?

Russia should have used the old 'Ukraine has weapons of mass destruction'
"No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot." - Mark Twain
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-01 22:04:06
March 01 2014 22:00 GMT
#2332
On March 02 2014 03:29 PaleMan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2014 03:27 LongShot27 wrote:
On March 02 2014 03:26 PaleMan wrote:
On March 02 2014 03:25 LongShot27 wrote:
On March 02 2014 03:10 whiteLotus wrote:
On March 02 2014 03:07 LongShot27 wrote:
Taking politics completely out of the situation. Why isn't the headline "Russia Invades The Ukraine"?


cuz they havent invaded anything yet?

Moving your military into a country without that countries permission is the definition of an invasion


its not that simple

Yanukovich can be considered a legitimate President of Ukraine atm
so if he asked for help...

no, just no


>Being installed at gunpoint by a bunch of guys who took over government buildings is not legitimate in any way whatsoever

he was removed by a bunch of guys who took over government buildings
so maybe it is proper way to install him back

there was only one incident when armed men entered the Parliament, and those were angry police officers before they were forced to leave very quickly. And the Paliament has always been swarmed by reporters. Yanukovich was impeached, deal with it.
Kamille
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Monaco1035 Posts
March 01 2014 22:02 GMT
#2333
On March 02 2014 07:00 zeo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2014 06:43 DeepElemBlues wrote:
I guess next time America wants to invade a country it'll just pass a law saying it's protecting Americans in that country and everything will be fine, right?

Right?

Bueller?

Russia should have used the old 'Ukraine has weapons of mass destruction'


That only gives them the ability to invade. Protecting American citizens includes annexation of territory and all the juicy economic benefits that entails.
Priphea
DeepElemBlues
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States5079 Posts
March 01 2014 22:03 GMT
#2334
On March 02 2014 07:00 zeo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2014 06:43 DeepElemBlues wrote:
I guess next time America wants to invade a country it'll just pass a law saying it's protecting Americans in that country and everything will be fine, right?

Right?

Bueller?

Russia should have used the old 'Ukraine has weapons of mass destruction'


If only they still did. Your "anti"-fascist hero Putin wouldn't have dared lift a finger.
no place i'd rather be than the satellite of love
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
March 01 2014 22:04 GMT
#2335
No doubt the US has done similar stuff in the past, that doesn't make this any better. The whole thing is clearly a breach of the Budapest Memorandum and the obvious goal is to destabilize the Ukraine to gobble up some territory.
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6342 Posts
March 01 2014 22:07 GMT
#2336
On March 02 2014 07:02 Kamille wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2014 07:00 zeo wrote:
On March 02 2014 06:43 DeepElemBlues wrote:
I guess next time America wants to invade a country it'll just pass a law saying it's protecting Americans in that country and everything will be fine, right?

Right?

Bueller?

Russia should have used the old 'Ukraine has weapons of mass destruction'


That only gives them the ability to invade. Protecting American citizens includes annexation of territory and all the juicy economic benefits that entails.

Where do Americans have a serious diaspora? Maybe Mexico?
"No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot." - Mark Twain
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
March 01 2014 22:10 GMT
#2337
Hell, our clown of a president isn't even bothering to attend the national security council meetings concerning the Ukraine. I don't think that he could express more apathy if he tried.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
March 01 2014 22:11 GMT
#2338
On March 02 2014 07:07 zeo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2014 07:02 Kamille wrote:
On March 02 2014 07:00 zeo wrote:
On March 02 2014 06:43 DeepElemBlues wrote:
I guess next time America wants to invade a country it'll just pass a law saying it's protecting Americans in that country and everything will be fine, right?

Right?

Bueller?

Russia should have used the old 'Ukraine has weapons of mass destruction'


That only gives them the ability to invade. Protecting American citizens includes annexation of territory and all the juicy economic benefits that entails.

Where do Americans have a serious diaspora? Maybe Mexico?

Just some communities in Mexico.
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5806 Posts
March 01 2014 22:11 GMT
#2339
On March 02 2014 07:07 zeo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2014 07:02 Kamille wrote:
On March 02 2014 07:00 zeo wrote:
On March 02 2014 06:43 DeepElemBlues wrote:
I guess next time America wants to invade a country it'll just pass a law saying it's protecting Americans in that country and everything will be fine, right?

Right?

Bueller?

Russia should have used the old 'Ukraine has weapons of mass destruction'


That only gives them the ability to invade. Protecting American citizens includes annexation of territory and all the juicy economic benefits that entails.

Where do Americans have a serious diaspora? Maybe Mexico?


Israel.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-01 22:12:14
March 01 2014 22:11 GMT
#2340
Americans don't have a diaspora, people come to America, they don't leave it much.
Mexico has a diaspora in America, not the other way around.

If you wanna take a dim suspicious view of things:
America comes in, maybe sets up a puppet government, and has some corporations make some money. But they always leave after awhile, and any government they propped up will be abandoned to its fate.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
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