EPTSavior and Movie invited to SCNTV's BW tournament - Page 5
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King[Neikos]
Costa Rica506 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On November 20 2013 08:48 King[Neikos] wrote: Savior should not be involved in anything esports related, I guess the tournament organizers do not really understand the bad press this represents for it. I really don't think that outside of Korea this is as big of a deal as people seem to think it is. Match fixing scandals happen across every sport in the world and eventually people move on, forgive the people and just get on with it. This eternal hate for Saviour when he was far from the main reason this happened I think is over the top. Admittedly I understand the anti-saviour points too, but I think it's time to move on. Saviour didn't kill BW in Korea, lack of Sponsorships killed BW and although it can partly be attributed to the match fixing, I hardly think it's the true reason. Anyway, BW is still alive in it's own way so we should just be happy about that. | ||
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N.geNuity
United States5112 Posts
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On November 20 2013 04:37 Hesmyrr wrote:
What's wrong with this statement if it was the truth. The court findings does not contradict this. On November 20 2013 04:37 Hesmyrr wrote:
These are all things that I have done or will do if I was in his position. Savior isn't a saint. He's just sinner like everyone else. When he tries to go away but still end up streaming on Afreeca later, it just makes him authentic. He just can't move away from the game. It might be a feeling that you might have felt if you grew up with starcraft. | ||
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lemmata
468 Posts
What is it about Savior that makes the crazies and mental midgets come out in full force? 1) Savior may not have killed Brood War by himself. However, he did kill Air Force Ace. If you do think that the end of Air Force Ace had a negligible impact on Brood War, then you are either ignorant or logically impaired. 2) Savior fixed matches out of greed, not out of need. Savior was a huge star with a large salary and large accumulated prize money. He did not need money. He was known for his expensive habits and his love for luxury brands like Gucci and Dior. 3) The players who Savior recruited to fix matches were in very vulnerable positions. They made a lot less money than Savior, and they were not huge stars. The people he recruited may be partially excused for being in bad financial situations with bad future prospects. Savior? He's like a gang leader who recruited the poor children in his neighborhood to be his drug dealers on the street. This just disgusting. 4) Savior was not a "kid". He was an adult. He knew that he was doing something very bad and went to great lengths to cover his tracks. During his public trial in court, testimony revealed that Savior used money laundering techniques like transferring payments to the members of his match-fixing ring in multiple small increments to avoid the suspicion that lump sum payments would attract. Sounds more like the behavior of a seasoned crook than that of a naive kid who stumbled onto the wrong side of the tracks. 5) The match-fixing scandal had a definite effect on the attitudes of government officials in Korea. Boxer was invited to meet the president prior to the scandal. The government created Air Force Ace to support pro gaming as a viable career and take advantage of the positive images associated with pro gaming. What kind of things happened post-scandal? The government killed Air Force Ace. Korea instituted a policy of shutting down online gaming at midnight---a policy that had been repeatedly rejected earlier in the decade. Legislators pushed to classify computer gaming as one of the four evils of society to be regulated along with gambling, drugs, and alcohol. The connection between organized illegal gambling and the match-fixing scandal is not something we can ignore. 6) Yes, Blizzard killed Brood War with its broadcasting rights disputes and that boring non-sequel. Yes, MBC Music killed Brood War by replacing MBC Game. Yes, the KeSPA system had (and still has) some inherent flaws that leave its weaker players vulnerable to predatory criminal recruiters. BUT!! Would Brood War have been better able to fight back against the tides if it was not punched in the kidneys by the scandal? Yes. Would the executive decision to shut down MBC Game have been more difficult had the game not been tainted by the stink of Savior's diarrhea? Yes. Would KeSPA have had more time to make corrections to the way that it treated the marginal players and improve their welfare (just as other sports did over longer periods of time) had the scandal not happened? Yes. A person who is dismissive of the impact that the match-fixing scandal had on the demise of professional Brood War reveals that his/her counterfactual reasoning module is defective or absent. 7) Does anyone honestly believe that reminding the general public (and the authorities) about Savior's connection with Brood War is helpful to the future of the game? Even if Savior repented and was forgiven, this is just a stupid thing to do. He can find a temp job working at a grocery store. Heck, I don't care if he runs his own personal channel on Afreeca. Just keep him out of events that appear to be sanctioned by the Brood War community. Such a punishment is neither inhumane nor disproportionate. The asshole was profiting off Brood War even while he was serving his sentence for crying out loud! 8) I could forgive Savior if he displays some goddamn contrition. Telling his crazy fans that he was "only" a broker and did not fix his own matches tells me all I need to know about that. He's still making excuses for himself and trying to downplay his role. Fuck him. 9) Really, fuck Savior. 10) There are plenty of awesome zergs to love. Zero has come to Afreeca. Hero and Killer provide entertaining competition. Hopefully, Jaedong eventually tires of SC2 and retires to stream Brood War while having his shoulders massaged by a harem of models. Get some perspective and stop making excuses for this has-been who is nothing but a burden on the rest of the community. | ||
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
Considering you butchered my format to deal with each point I made. I'm not going to re-quote you: Savior was approached and facilitated the other players like an intermediary. If you actually paid attention to the court case you would know this. These players were in a lose-lose scenario. Once they knew about it and who was involved (follow your Hyungs) do you want to be the one who exposes what big brother is doing not knowing the consequences or how it will affect your own livelihood? Come on. It's not so easy to be in their shoes. That doesn't mean you were around when our forums were flooded about the scandal and the aftermath. Just because a convict gets out of prison doesn't mean they learned their lesson. Repeat offenders man. Ofc we're generalizing now, but that doesn't give them a right to return to the game. Just like Pete Rose isn't allowed to return to baseball for placing bets. I can see why people would frown upon this. | ||
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puppykiller
United States3126 Posts
Savior was a high profile scapegoat for the match-fixing scandal, an issue that was blown completely out of proportion by the Korean media. Of course he should have been banned from SC but this bizarre hatred of him is absurd and conveniently misplaced. The main problem with BW and what is also a huge issue with SC2 and all esports to the best of my knowledge is a winner take all mentality that rewards the best and most lucky many times more than the other players. The fact that so many devote so much time to this game and develop such amazing talent yet hardly make anything while others who are only slightly better accrue absurd amounts of cash is fucked up. Sadly enough, match-fixing is a step away from this zero-sum-game. | ||
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miercat
394 Posts
On November 20 2013 04:37 Hesmyrr wrote: By the way, Lee Seung Won stated that MBC Game did not have to disband but was forced to due to the channel's director. Apparently MBC Game was still pretty well off at the time compared to some other MBC channels, but the director told the channel to stop doing special events that were the main source of channel's income, then when MBC Game started losing money because of it, used it as excuse to replace it with MBC Music. Thought I should mention this tidbit since this seems to be information not widely known. OH. MY. GOD. ... Is there source for this information? | ||
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endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
edit: offline finals are going to be played there: 上海市瞿溪路988号汇景生活广场B2层 edit: Alright so Savior vs Movie is actually a wildcard match to determine which of the two will qualify the offline finals in Shanghai in 10 days. Also it says time 19:00, but that's Chinese time, so for everyone planning to watch, that's 20:00 KST. | ||
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BearAttack
33 Posts
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white_horse
1019 Posts
People wanting savior back just want to see more of his play to entertain themselves. That's selfish. That kind of attitude wouldn't happen if you actually cared about professional BW. | ||
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blueblimp
Canada297 Posts
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Jaaaaasper
United States10225 Posts
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lichter
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
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Gescom
Canada3370 Posts
On November 20 2013 09:22 lemmata wrote: 1) Savior may not have killed Brood War by himself. However, he did kill Air Force Ace. If you do think that the end of Air Force Ace had a negligible impact on Brood War, then you are either ignorant or logically impaired. Forgive my ignorance, my ACE fielded an awesome squad all the way until the very end of BW SPL, almost three years after the match fixing scandal. How did he kill ACE? On November 20 2013 09:22 lemmata wrote: 5) The match-fixing scandal had a definite effect on the attitudes of government officials in Korea. Boxer was invited to meet the president prior to the scandal. The government created Air Force Ace to support pro gaming as a viable career and take advantage of the positive images associated with pro gaming. What kind of things happened post-scandal? The government killed Air Force Ace. Korea instituted a policy of shutting down online gaming at midnight---a policy that had been repeatedly rejected earlier in the decade. Legislators pushed to classify computer gaming as one of the four evils of society to be regulated along with gambling, drugs, and alcohol. The connection between organized illegal gambling and the match-fixing scandal is not something we can ignore. That's completely baseless and it's an absolutely huge stretch. I'd guess that the kids dropping dead, the parents neglecting children, the rampant online addiction, cyberbullying, etc, were a way bigger deal. On November 20 2013 09:22 lemmata wrote: 6) Yes, Blizzard killed Brood War with its broadcasting rights disputes and that boring non-sequel. Yes, MBC Music killed Brood War by replacing MBC Game. Yes, the KeSPA system had (and still has) some inherent flaws that leave its weaker players vulnerable to predatory criminal recruiters. BUT!! Would Brood War have been better able to fight back against the tides if it was not punched in the kidneys by the scandal? Yes. Would the executive decision to shut down MBC Game have been more difficult had the game not been tainted by the stink of Savior's diarrhea? Yes. Would KeSPA have had more time to make corrections to the way that it treated the marginal players and improve their welfare (just as other sports did over longer periods of time) had the scandal not happened? Yes. A person who is dismissive of the impact that the match-fixing scandal had on the demise of professional Brood War reveals that his/her counterfactual reasoning module is defective or absent. Again, all of those things were two years after... I can completely agree that "fuck Saviour", and I completely love BW, but to me, the argument that 'Savior killed BW!1' is just a BW apologist mentality that the game could have possibly succeeded into 2012 and onwards. It's ludicrous. | ||
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ChriS-X
Malaysia1374 Posts
On November 20 2013 13:15 Gescom wrote: Forgive my ignorance, my ACE fielded an awesome squad all the way until the very end of BW SPL, almost three years after the match fixing scandal. How did he kill ACE? That's completely baseless and it's an absolutely huge stretch. I'd guess that the kids dropping dead, the parents neglecting children, the rampant online addiction, cyberbullying, etc, were a way bigger deal. Again, all of those things were two years after... I can completely agree that "fuck Saviour", and I completely love BW, but to me, the argument that 'Savior killed BW!1' is just a BW apologist mentality that the game could have possibly succeeded into 2012 and onwards. It's ludicrous. so things can't have an effect down the road? it was mentioned earlier that were it not for the existing infrastructure in place, it WOULD have shut down there and then, just so happens that we managed to delay the demise by another 2 years. | ||
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
I'm not condoning their actions, but please let those of us who want to remember him as the Messiah of Zerg do so without having to read this bullshit in every single thread. | ||
itsjustatank
Hong Kong9153 Posts
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ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
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