EPTLight and Flying retire - Page 15
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DyEnasTy
United States3720 Posts
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Arco
United States2090 Posts
On September 18 2013 10:46 GTPGlitch wrote: Silly me, how could I not notice all the 4M pushing and forcefields and colossi and infestors in bw, a game where the pathing had units way more spread than in star2 and had much longer engagements Obviously you never played BW because you never tried to A-Move dragoons into chokes which clumped up and got massacred by splash damage against Siege Tanks (which had higher damage in BW by far) and Spider Mines, played Bio TvZ against Plague and Lurkers, or split Muta stacks via cloning 1 by 1 against Irradiate. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On September 18 2013 11:06 Arco wrote: - Splitting is in Brood War - Wraith/Mutalisk micro - Vulture micro - Shuttle/Reaver micro - Cloning spells (no smartcast) - 12 units per control group - The need to create concaves before every battle while dealing with terrible AI Most importantly of all: - Units in Brood War can be manipulated to increase their effectiveness in some cases by a whopping 10x, whereas in StarCraft 2 units can be manipulated to increase their effectiveness between 1.5 and 1.55x, according to Day9. Video below. + Show Spoiler + Day9 video about SC vs SC2 micro Day9 in Korea at a BW MSL Ro8 match instead of a SC2 GSTL Final (SlayerS going for a second GSTL title) Idk you are forgetting manly things here... Such as tank positioning. Lurker/Defiler composition MnM control, yes the REAL kind Carrier micro Storm casting Zealot bombing Dragoon moving. | ||
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Arco
United States2090 Posts
On September 18 2013 11:13 Xiphos wrote: Idk you are forgetting manly things here... Such as tank positioning. Lurker/Defiler composition MnM control, yes the REAL kind Carrier micro Storm casting Zealot bombing Dragoon moving. Yes, just a small list of examples...there are many many techniques in BW. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
BUT BUT because of the other aspects like actual harass units like toss' storm drop, Terran's vulture raids and bionic drops, Zerg, overlord drop/muta supports AND by the fact that macroing was much harder and had a more effect into the gameplay, you can sort of CLAW your way back into the game unlike SC2. | ||
Darkhorse
United States23455 Posts
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9175 Posts
On September 18 2013 11:20 Xiphos wrote: you can sort of CLAW your way back into the game unlike SC2. You're so biased it's ridiculous, comebacks happen regularly in SC2 and if there's a significant skill difference the weaker player virtually can't win, even if they get a lead. If you can't claw your way back it's because you're not as good as you think you are. | ||
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LuckyMacro
United States1482 Posts
On September 18 2013 02:12 Crisium wrote: Light is the best TvZ player to never win a SL, certainly. But his TvP was always considered sub par, and his TvT was only good; rarely great. Best Terrans to never win a SL, I'd say: 1. Sea 2. Midas 3. Light 4. Iris Light's really only known for his TvZ, but my god that TvZ... Unspoiler for awesomeness: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Atf34Tz.png) The only blip was a 9 game (!!) TvZ span where he only played JD and still went an impressive 4-5 against the Tyrant. Midas number 1 for me  Light's tvz wassss pretty freaken beautiful. Should rewatch some of those games. | ||
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GTPGlitch
5061 Posts
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On September 18 2013 11:37 Scarecrow wrote: You're so biased it's ridiculous, comebacks happen regularly in SC2 and if there's a significant skill difference the weaker player virtually can't win, even if they get a lead. If you can't claw your way back it's because you're not as good as you think you are. Everytime I see a comeback happening, it is mostly because of the lead player blew it by doing something stupid. Like Innovation vs MVP in WCS Grand Final Season 1 Inno got a huge lead with his medivac/hellbat combination and gained a huge map presence. Then MVP tech switched to Vikings to shut down medivac. Innovation went bogus and dogmatically stuck with Medivac/hellbat marine tank combosition and got all of his medivac shut down and gg for him. Case in point: being adamantly stupid. MVP did have a few good engagement there with what he have but it was mainly due to Bogus' stubbornness that he won. And there is no reason for petulances like name calling. EDIT: It was actually in WCS Grand Final Season 1 | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On September 18 2013 02:12 Crisium wrote: Light is the best TvZ player to never win a SL, certainly. But his TvP was always considered sub par, and his TvT was only good; rarely great. Best Terrans to never win a SL, I'd say: 1. Sea 2. Midas 3. Light 4. Iris Light's really only known for his TvZ, but my god that TvZ... Unspoiler for awesomeness: + Show Spoiler + The only blip was a 9 game (!!) TvZ span where he only played JD and still went an impressive 4-5 against the Tyrant. Holy, all those wins :O I've only ever watched several of his TvZs but man, this guy is frickin good if his TvZ record is like that Oo; Where does he compare with Flash? I'm guessing equal in TvZ? Either way, sad to see light and flying go. I remember light's first PL SCII game where he rolled over Fantasy with sheer macro and flying knocked out Stephano with the same 4 gate build(+1 attack as well, more delayed in 2nd) back in Code S or something. | ||
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palexhur
Colombia730 Posts
On September 18 2013 11:54 Xiphos wrote: Everytime I see a comeback happening, it is mostly because of the lead player blew it by doing something stupid. Like Innovation vs MVP in MLG. Inno got a huge lead with his medivac/hellbat combination and gained a huge map presence. Then MVP tech switched to Vikings to shut down medivac. Innovation went bogus and dogmatically stuck with Medivac/hellbat marine tank combosition and got all of his medivac shut down and gg for him. Case in point: being adamantly stupid. MVP did have a few good engagement there with what he have but it was mainly due to Bogus' stubbornness that he won. Actually you are right Xiphos, when I see a comeback in SC2, most of the time is becuase the leading player just threw the game, I dont even remember the name of the players but that happens in DH Bucarest like two or three times (one game was TvT with one having a very bad engagement where he lost all his army), I like much more BW than SC2 but I watch SC2 and I think the one being biased is you Scarecrow. | ||
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shaftofpleasure
Korea (North)1375 Posts
I'm tired of all these SC2 people claiming that their game is as equally hard as BW yet in BW few can claim to be the best while in SC2, almost everyone in a sponsored is considered the best by their peers. | ||
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DreamChaser
1649 Posts
On September 17 2013 16:04 Delphiki wrote: Too many retirements  I don't visit TL as often but i swear i see at least one decent name retiring every time i look on that side bar. | ||
lichter
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On September 18 2013 12:04 shaftofpleasure wrote: SC2 should make their own pimpest plays. With the amount of players claiming they are hella good, there should be a long list of pimp plays we can watch and let's try to compare those to BW. for example, are there any games comparable to Boxer vs Joyo? I'm tired of all these SC2 people claiming that their game is as equally hard as BW yet in BW few can claim to be the best while in SC2, almost everyone in a sponsored is considered the best by their peers. BW is clearly harder mechanically. Anyone who argues otherwise is nuts. But mechanics isn't the only thing that makes a game difficult. Decision making and strategy in SC2 is far more difficult because everything is so punishing and quick. Unless you keep making the right decisions you can let your opponent back in the game. In a way, the fact that there isn't a steady list of dominant players just shows how difficult it is to master that side of SC2; basically, noone has done it yet. Whether or not that is the kind of 'difficult' or 'hard' that makes the game more pleasing to watch is beside the point that both games have facets that are harder than the other. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On September 18 2013 11:54 Xiphos wrote: Everytime I see a comeback happening, it is mostly because of the lead player blew it by doing something stupid. Like Innovation vs MVP in MLG. Inno got a huge lead with his medivac/hellbat combination and gained a huge map presence. Then MVP tech switched to Vikings to shut down medivac. Innovation went bogus and dogmatically stuck with Medivac/hellbat marine tank combosition and got all of his medivac shut down and gg for him. Case in point: being adamantly stupid. MVP did have a few good engagement there with what he have but it was mainly due to Bogus' stubbornness that he won. And there is no reason for petulances like name calling. gotta agree with this. MVP won that game because Innovation didn't take advantage of being ahead so much and just sat back allowing MVP to macro up then lost lots of engagements then mvp made the right decision and sieging his natural = GG. I gotta agree. It's easier to come back in BW because of how macro works. Forgetting to go back and make units compared to forgetting to click a control group and make units. One is easier and one is harder imo. Anyways, let's focus on light and flying retiring. Someone mentioned light said he won't stream BW | ||
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shaftofpleasure
Korea (North)1375 Posts
On September 18 2013 12:11 lichter wrote: BW is clearly harder mechanically. Anyone who argues otherwise is nuts. But mechanics isn't the only thing that makes a game difficult. Decision making and strategy in SC2 is far more difficult because everything is so punishing and quick. Unless you keep making the right decisions you can let your opponent back in the game. In a way, the fact that there isn't a steady list of dominant players just shows how difficult it is to master that side of SC2; basically, noone has done it yet. Whether or not that is the kind of 'difficult' or 'hard' that makes the game more pleasing to watch is beside the point that both games have facets that are harder than the other. What the fuck are you talking about? Do you think BW doesn't have this? It practically created the Decision making + strategy in RTS. SC2 is a rock/paper/scissors game. It is not complicated. Decision making and strategy is almost non-existent in SC2 because there is no time for it. It's all about countering what your opponents is making and that is not fucking strategy and this is based on most games I saw. You do not see that in BW. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On September 18 2013 12:04 shaftofpleasure wrote: SC2 should make their own pimpest plays. With the amount of players claiming they are hella good, there should be a long list of pimp plays we can watch and let's try to compare those to BW. for example, are there any games comparable to Boxer vs Joyo? I'm tired of all these SC2 people claiming that their game is as equally hard as BW yet in BW few can claim to be the best while in SC2, almost everyone in a sponsored is considered the best by their peers. What? Doesn't make any sense haha. There are like 4-5 players that we say can pretend to the title of "best". Like 1 or 2 per race... And players don't claim shit, it's the community who likes to give them titles and make power rankings. | ||
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shaftofpleasure
Korea (North)1375 Posts
On September 18 2013 12:19 ZenithM wrote: What? Doesn't make any sense haha. There are like 4-5 players that we say can pretend to the title of "best". Like 1 or 2 per race... and in BW there's 1. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
Well, there is hardly more than one guy playing the game now so it's not that hard. But seriously, was there? You're thinking Flash? He was certainly the most successful, but was he the best at the end of BW? Not Jangbi? Not Fantasy? | ||
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