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On August 13 2013 00:31 BlitzerSC wrote:
Kuroky thinks he is god or something, but he is not. I wouldn't be surprised if XBOCT called Kuroky useless because that's just the truth.
edit: Maybe he was just trolling or drunk, who knows.
Are you kidding me? kuroky is a god, he played great all ti3..
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On August 13 2013 01:50 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote:
you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games. Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass. Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead.
lol dude acutally with LOH and AA, they were great I agreed on that, but they feel as most of the fans that they need a change to grow up as a team, LOH seemed pretty unmotivated, yet I prefer AA over Kuro as a 5th position since he was just amazing. on a side not about xboct he's troll he loves to throw, but when actually did you see him troll important game in important competition ?
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On August 13 2013 01:50 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote:
you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games. Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass. There were multiple times where Hvost got caught with his pants down against Orange and Tongfu, and really it almost cost them the game had they not bailed him out big time. Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead. Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:On August 13 2013 01:36 BisuDagger wrote:On August 13 2013 01:29 Plansix wrote:On August 13 2013 01:23 ymir233 wrote:On August 13 2013 01:19 Plansix wrote:On August 13 2013 01:18 ymir233 wrote:On August 13 2013 01:15 BisuDagger wrote:On August 13 2013 01:12 ymir233 wrote:On August 13 2013 01:01 BisuDagger wrote:
I'd be pissed if I had Dendi on my team in that finals game too. XBOST knows his teammates are no Nature's Prophet TP spam. Fixed that for you  You can hate greatness all you want. It's just counter intuitive.You should learn to welcome greatness into your hearts. Alliance played great, Bulldog played great, s4 played great during a time of ridiculous pressure. I don't hate split push. But TP everywhere/treants break my heart. Its no better than Chen and his ability to get a lucky harpy with the first pull and just win mid for free. I'll just pretend like that analogy made sense in terms of gameplay. You win, I totally hated Alliance from when they started way back in Age of Mythology. There is a ton of BS stuff in Dota 2, its why we play it. NP split push of glory is one of them. Puck/lifestealer is also pretty BS. Timber saw and the endless AOEs is pretty dumb. KotL and PL are pretty fucked up. Hell, KotL is pretty fucked up. Who gives out free mana? The point of the game is to have a number of ways to win. If they don't, then the game becomes stale and no one takes risks. I absolutely agree with this. In Brood War there was tons of BS abilities/units in the right situations. That ability for those tense moments and wow factors made the game so edge of your seat to watch. That is why I really enjoyed watching TI3. It has those elements. If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him. Natures Prophet has been viable literally forever since the inception of DotA 1 competitive play simply because of teleport.
LoH was removed because he wanted to take a step back / retire from dota / Na'Vi.
AA was removed because (speculation) of behavioral / chemistry issues.
Neither of those changes were a mistake.
XBOCT is also one of the top performing carries on LAN, typically, and was one of the (IMO) top3 carry players in TI3. He's a good player.
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On August 13 2013 01:52 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 01:45 BisuDagger wrote:On August 13 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:On August 13 2013 01:36 BisuDagger wrote:On August 13 2013 01:29 Plansix wrote:On August 13 2013 01:23 ymir233 wrote:On August 13 2013 01:19 Plansix wrote:On August 13 2013 01:18 ymir233 wrote:On August 13 2013 01:15 BisuDagger wrote:On August 13 2013 01:12 ymir233 wrote:[quote] Fixed that for you You can hate greatness all you want. It's just counter intuitive.You should learn to welcome greatness into your hearts. Alliance played great, Bulldog played great, s4 played great during a time of ridiculous pressure. I don't hate split push. But TP everywhere/treants break my heart. Its no better than Chen and his ability to get a lucky harpy with the first pull and just win mid for free. I'll just pretend like that analogy made sense in terms of gameplay. You win, I totally hated Alliance from when they started way back in Age of Mythology. There is a ton of BS stuff in Dota 2, its why we play it. NP split push of glory is one of them. Puck/lifestealer is also pretty BS. Timber saw and the endless AOEs is pretty dumb. KotL and PL are pretty fucked up. Hell, KotL is pretty fucked up. Who gives out free mana? The point of the game is to have a number of ways to win. If they don't, then the game becomes stale and no one takes risks. I absolutely agree with this. In Brood War there was tons of BS abilities/units in the right situations. That ability for those tense moments and wow factors made the game so edge of your seat to watch. That is why I really enjoyed watching TI3. It has those elements. If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him. Yup. The nerf or remove approach from blizzard in SC2 only reduced the amount of fun things available. Remember how awesome it was to watch snipe vs ultras in the MVP vs JulyZerg game. Now ghosts suck to watch. I feel like if something is removed something must be added or you are always going backwards. I can't really blame or Blizzard for that, though. The only reason I know nerfing is bad is because of SC2. If you asked me when I started playing SC2, I would have said you need to nerf stuff that is to good. It is only through my experience with that game that I now know that nerfing stuff is bad and unstable games are better than stable ones. Unstable games means you have to figure stuff out, stable ones just like you sit back and do what is standard. Also, if Blizzard went that route right now, the community would explode(not that I care that much, they need a good kick in the ass) Dota 2 benifits a lot from Icefrog giving no fucks about the community or their whining. He didn't nerf anything they begged for(like PL) and only buff stuff that he thought would deal with it. Its the, "Fine, here is some shit thats awesome, you figure it out" approach. Its better, more exciting and generally leads to a more happy community. And the lack of a ladder, which is a great way to make people keep playing your game. Want to get rid of ladder anxiety? Remove the ladder.
He did nerf PL and even other pubstomping heroes in the past though.
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On August 13 2013 01:49 Ahzz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 01:18 1Dhalism wrote:On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote:
you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games. You don't even have to comprehend DOTA. In case of XBOCT the results speak for themselves and there is no room for interpretation. He is by far the most accomplished carry in DOTA2 and frankly if you think that makes him easily replaceable, then you dont know anything about ESPORTS. Pretty much this. XBoct played absolutely amazing here in TI3. He farmed many comebacks and made huge plays. In the games where it counted, he barely 'threw' games at all. Sure he played without motivation in many competitions leading up to TI3, which is why he was rated '4' as a carry. But in an enviroment that counts, he has performed extremely well. They definately didn't lose because of him. Does it justify blaming his teammates? No, and its not a very mature thing to do. But he has played computer games his whole life probably, and at some point he will get his reality check. However, as many have pointed out, funnik and kuroky have a couple of heroes that they play very well, as seen with kurokys rubik and perhaps with funniks bh, but they lack the experience to play a larger pool of heroes, and that is what lost Na'Vi the finals. funniks batrider was really quite mediocre imo
Well I don't think it has something to do with maturity. They go throught intense emotions, and huge frustration. They lost 700k on a dream coil (and no tp on dendi), this is not something you can sweep easily and move on, few hours after.
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On August 13 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:
If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him.
I think I have to disagree with this one. Last year yes, and that is what happened. However, with ~85 heroes picked this tournament, the state of balance in dota has (IMO) never been better. Sure, there are certain heroes that are currently a bit too good, but not very many. And there are relatively quite few heroes that need that much help. I expect a big balance patch sure, but not as sweeping as some of the recent ones that saw noticeable changes to half the hero pool. The baseline for "playable" is very very close to flat right now. A few heroes need nudging up or down, but I strongly feel that bringing every other hero up won't succeed at keeping the level of balance that we saw in TI3.
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On August 13 2013 01:53 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 01:50 superstartran wrote:On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote:
you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games. Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass. There were multiple times where Hvost got caught with his pants down against Orange and Tongfu, and really it almost cost them the game had they not bailed him out big time. Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead. On August 13 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:On August 13 2013 01:36 BisuDagger wrote:On August 13 2013 01:29 Plansix wrote:On August 13 2013 01:23 ymir233 wrote:On August 13 2013 01:19 Plansix wrote:On August 13 2013 01:18 ymir233 wrote:On August 13 2013 01:15 BisuDagger wrote:On August 13 2013 01:12 ymir233 wrote:[quote] Fixed that for you You can hate greatness all you want. It's just counter intuitive.You should learn to welcome greatness into your hearts. Alliance played great, Bulldog played great, s4 played great during a time of ridiculous pressure. I don't hate split push. But TP everywhere/treants break my heart. Its no better than Chen and his ability to get a lucky harpy with the first pull and just win mid for free. I'll just pretend like that analogy made sense in terms of gameplay. You win, I totally hated Alliance from when they started way back in Age of Mythology. There is a ton of BS stuff in Dota 2, its why we play it. NP split push of glory is one of them. Puck/lifestealer is also pretty BS. Timber saw and the endless AOEs is pretty dumb. KotL and PL are pretty fucked up. Hell, KotL is pretty fucked up. Who gives out free mana? The point of the game is to have a number of ways to win. If they don't, then the game becomes stale and no one takes risks. I absolutely agree with this. In Brood War there was tons of BS abilities/units in the right situations. That ability for those tense moments and wow factors made the game so edge of your seat to watch. That is why I really enjoyed watching TI3. It has those elements. If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him. Natures Prophet has been viable literally forever since the inception of DotA 1 competitive play simply because of teleport. LoH was removed because he wanted to take a step back / retire from dota / Na'Vi. AA was removed because (speculation) of behavioral / chemistry issues. Neither of those changes were a mistake. XBOCT is also one of the top performing carries on LAN, typically, and was one of the (IMO) top3 carry players in TI3. He's a good player.
AA getting removed is a big mistake, especially when finding a carry player is a hell of alot easier than an experienced and quality player of AA's caliber. AA was considered the best support in the world back in his VP days with Vigoss, and won multiple big titles in Dota 1.
LOH didn't take a step back or retire. He ended up joining Empire. I suspect that Hvost pulled the same bullshit last year after they lost.
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On August 13 2013 01:14 FuzzyJAM wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote:
you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games. 100%. Xboct was the best carry at TI3.
Statistically the best carries at TI3 were Loda and Burning, but okay.
I don't think Xboct is crap, but lets be real here. He wasn't the best carry at TI3 by really any measure.
As far as him being the "weak link", that's from people who don't understand Dota. Xboct's play style fits Na'vi perfectly, and you couldn't take your standard 4-protect-1 carry and put them on Nav'i...it wouldn't work.
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On August 13 2013 01:56 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 01:53 Comeh wrote:On August 13 2013 01:50 superstartran wrote:On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote:
you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games. Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass. There were multiple times where Hvost got caught with his pants down against Orange and Tongfu, and really it almost cost them the game had they not bailed him out big time. Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead. On August 13 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:On August 13 2013 01:36 BisuDagger wrote:On August 13 2013 01:29 Plansix wrote:On August 13 2013 01:23 ymir233 wrote:On August 13 2013 01:19 Plansix wrote:On August 13 2013 01:18 ymir233 wrote:On August 13 2013 01:15 BisuDagger wrote:
[quote]
You can hate greatness all you want. It's just counter intuitive.You should learn to welcome greatness into your hearts. Alliance played great, Bulldog played great, s4 played great during a time of ridiculous pressure. I don't hate split push. But TP everywhere/treants break my heart. Its no better than Chen and his ability to get a lucky harpy with the first pull and just win mid for free. I'll just pretend like that analogy made sense in terms of gameplay. You win, I totally hated Alliance from when they started way back in Age of Mythology. There is a ton of BS stuff in Dota 2, its why we play it. NP split push of glory is one of them. Puck/lifestealer is also pretty BS. Timber saw and the endless AOEs is pretty dumb. KotL and PL are pretty fucked up. Hell, KotL is pretty fucked up. Who gives out free mana? The point of the game is to have a number of ways to win. If they don't, then the game becomes stale and no one takes risks. I absolutely agree with this. In Brood War there was tons of BS abilities/units in the right situations. That ability for those tense moments and wow factors made the game so edge of your seat to watch. That is why I really enjoyed watching TI3. It has those elements. If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him. Natures Prophet has been viable literally forever since the inception of DotA 1 competitive play simply because of teleport. LoH was removed because he wanted to take a step back / retire from dota / Na'Vi. AA was removed because (speculation) of behavioral / chemistry issues. Neither of those changes were a mistake. XBOCT is also one of the top performing carries on LAN, typically, and was one of the (IMO) top3 carry players in TI3. He's a good player. AA getting removed is a big mistake, especially when finding a carry player is a hell of alot easier than an experienced and quality player of AA's caliber. AA was considered the best support in the world back in his VP days with Vigoss, and won multiple big titles in Dota 1. LOH didn't take a step back or retire. He ended up joining Empire. I suspect that Hvost pulled the same bullshit last year after they lost.
Having a toxic environment is sometimes a lot worse than having a good environment with "mediocre" players - teams fall apart because of toxic environments.
And how many games has Empire played lately? LoH isn't taking competitive gaming very seriously lately.
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On August 13 2013 01:57 Brainling wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 01:14 FuzzyJAM wrote:On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote:
you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games. 100%. Xboct was the best carry at TI3. Statistically the best carries at TI3 were Loda and Burning, but okay. I don't think his Xboct is crap, but lets be real here. He wasn't the best carry at TI3 by really any measure. As far as him being the "weak link", that's from people who don't understand Dota. Xboct's play style fits Na'vi perfectly, and you couldn't take your standard 4-protect-1 carry and put them on Nav'i...it wouldn't work.
It is a problem for Na'vi though when Hvost is playing too aggressive and gets constantly picked, which happened alot even at this TI when he was playing way better than he did last year.
On August 13 2013 01:58 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 01:56 superstartran wrote:On August 13 2013 01:53 Comeh wrote:On August 13 2013 01:50 superstartran wrote:On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote:
you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games. Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass. There were multiple times where Hvost got caught with his pants down against Orange and Tongfu, and really it almost cost them the game had they not bailed him out big time. Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead. On August 13 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:On August 13 2013 01:36 BisuDagger wrote:On August 13 2013 01:29 Plansix wrote:On August 13 2013 01:23 ymir233 wrote:On August 13 2013 01:19 Plansix wrote:On August 13 2013 01:18 ymir233 wrote:
[quote]
Alliance played great, Bulldog played great, s4 played great during a time of ridiculous pressure. I don't hate split push. But TP everywhere/treants break my heart. Its no better than Chen and his ability to get a lucky harpy with the first pull and just win mid for free. I'll just pretend like that analogy made sense in terms of gameplay. You win, I totally hated Alliance from when they started way back in Age of Mythology. There is a ton of BS stuff in Dota 2, its why we play it. NP split push of glory is one of them. Puck/lifestealer is also pretty BS. Timber saw and the endless AOEs is pretty dumb. KotL and PL are pretty fucked up. Hell, KotL is pretty fucked up. Who gives out free mana? The point of the game is to have a number of ways to win. If they don't, then the game becomes stale and no one takes risks. I absolutely agree with this. In Brood War there was tons of BS abilities/units in the right situations. That ability for those tense moments and wow factors made the game so edge of your seat to watch. That is why I really enjoyed watching TI3. It has those elements. If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him. Natures Prophet has been viable literally forever since the inception of DotA 1 competitive play simply because of teleport. LoH was removed because he wanted to take a step back / retire from dota / Na'Vi. AA was removed because (speculation) of behavioral / chemistry issues. Neither of those changes were a mistake. XBOCT is also one of the top performing carries on LAN, typically, and was one of the (IMO) top3 carry players in TI3. He's a good player. AA getting removed is a big mistake, especially when finding a carry player is a hell of alot easier than an experienced and quality player of AA's caliber. AA was considered the best support in the world back in his VP days with Vigoss, and won multiple big titles in Dota 1. LOH didn't take a step back or retire. He ended up joining Empire. I suspect that Hvost pulled the same bullshit last year after they lost. Having a toxic environment is sometimes a lot worse than having a good environment with "mediocre" players - teams fall apart because of toxic environments. And how many games has Empire played lately? LoH isn't taking competitive gaming very seriously lately.
Who would you rather remove? The guy that is considered by many the weakest link on the team, or the guy who is a proven winner in DotA 1 and is considered by many as one of the best support players of all time? AA has been a top notch support since like 2007.
Only problem is Hvost is best friends with the sponsor, so it's almost a for sure thing he's never going to get removed.
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On August 13 2013 01:56 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:
If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him. I think I have to disagree with this one. Last year yes, and that is what happened. However, with ~85 heroes picked this tournament, the state of balance in dota has (IMO) never been better. Sure, there are certain heroes that are currently a bit too good, but not very many. And there are relatively quite few heroes that need that much help. I expect a big balance patch sure, but not as sweeping as some of the recent ones that saw noticeable changes to half the hero pool. The baseline for "playable" is very very close to flat right now. A few heroes need nudging up or down, but I strongly feel that bringing every other hero up won't succeed at keeping the level of balance that we saw in TI3.
Yes, you can´t just buff everything else when a couple of heroes are too strong, IceFrog knows this. The game just turns to shit with everything being too strong in relation to base stats and items. IceFrog so far has done a really good job tunning down the most OP heroes while buffing the underused ones, I don´t expect he will change his aproach and suddenly stop nerfing heroes.
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Eh, XBOCT carried damn well throughout the entire tournament. Also, Na'vi didn't lose the finals because of Kuroky's and Funn1k's inexperience, they lost it because of a retarded draft in game 1 and a couple of unlucky (or lucky on [a]'s side) split-second decisions, like the almost-working all in on Balanar in game 4 and the confused fights @ Roshan and barrack trades in game 5. Of course they're going to be massively frustrated and angry, not because their result is bad but because their result is so amazingly close to being even better. If they do go for any roster changes, it would be dropping Kuro in favour of a Russian-speaking player just to make communication more natural imo, but it makes no sense whatsoever to make any further changes unless there's a huge conflict / falling out that can't be reconciled between players. The line between winning and losing the grand finals had been razor thin, and despite some minor hiccups, they have melted massive amounts of faces on the way to the finals and prior to TI3.
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On August 13 2013 01:58 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 01:56 superstartran wrote:On August 13 2013 01:53 Comeh wrote:On August 13 2013 01:50 superstartran wrote:On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote:
you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games. Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass. There were multiple times where Hvost got caught with his pants down against Orange and Tongfu, and really it almost cost them the game had they not bailed him out big time. Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead. On August 13 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:On August 13 2013 01:36 BisuDagger wrote:On August 13 2013 01:29 Plansix wrote:On August 13 2013 01:23 ymir233 wrote:On August 13 2013 01:19 Plansix wrote:On August 13 2013 01:18 ymir233 wrote:
[quote]
Alliance played great, Bulldog played great, s4 played great during a time of ridiculous pressure. I don't hate split push. But TP everywhere/treants break my heart. Its no better than Chen and his ability to get a lucky harpy with the first pull and just win mid for free. I'll just pretend like that analogy made sense in terms of gameplay. You win, I totally hated Alliance from when they started way back in Age of Mythology. There is a ton of BS stuff in Dota 2, its why we play it. NP split push of glory is one of them. Puck/lifestealer is also pretty BS. Timber saw and the endless AOEs is pretty dumb. KotL and PL are pretty fucked up. Hell, KotL is pretty fucked up. Who gives out free mana? The point of the game is to have a number of ways to win. If they don't, then the game becomes stale and no one takes risks. I absolutely agree with this. In Brood War there was tons of BS abilities/units in the right situations. That ability for those tense moments and wow factors made the game so edge of your seat to watch. That is why I really enjoyed watching TI3. It has those elements. If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him. Natures Prophet has been viable literally forever since the inception of DotA 1 competitive play simply because of teleport. LoH was removed because he wanted to take a step back / retire from dota / Na'Vi. AA was removed because (speculation) of behavioral / chemistry issues. Neither of those changes were a mistake. XBOCT is also one of the top performing carries on LAN, typically, and was one of the (IMO) top3 carry players in TI3. He's a good player. AA getting removed is a big mistake, especially when finding a carry player is a hell of alot easier than an experienced and quality player of AA's caliber. AA was considered the best support in the world back in his VP days with Vigoss, and won multiple big titles in Dota 1. LOH didn't take a step back or retire. He ended up joining Empire. I suspect that Hvost pulled the same bullshit last year after they lost. Having a toxic environment is sometimes a lot worse than having a good environment with "mediocre" players - teams fall apart because of toxic environments. And how many games has Empire played lately? LoH isn't taking competitive gaming very seriously lately.
Having a toxic player on a team is the worst thing that could ever happen, no matter how skilled they are. Since there are no coaches for these teams, it would be hard to keep that sort of player under wraps. I don't think Hvost is doing anything and is just fucking with people or poking funny at Puppy. These guys have been friends for a while now.
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On August 13 2013 02:02 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 01:58 Comeh wrote:On August 13 2013 01:56 superstartran wrote:On August 13 2013 01:53 Comeh wrote:On August 13 2013 01:50 superstartran wrote:On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote:
you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games. Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass. There were multiple times where Hvost got caught with his pants down against Orange and Tongfu, and really it almost cost them the game had they not bailed him out big time. Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead. On August 13 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:On August 13 2013 01:36 BisuDagger wrote:On August 13 2013 01:29 Plansix wrote:On August 13 2013 01:23 ymir233 wrote:On August 13 2013 01:19 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Its no better than Chen and his ability to get a lucky harpy with the first pull and just win mid for free. I'll just pretend like that analogy made sense in terms of gameplay. You win, I totally hated Alliance from when they started way back in Age of Mythology. There is a ton of BS stuff in Dota 2, its why we play it. NP split push of glory is one of them. Puck/lifestealer is also pretty BS. Timber saw and the endless AOEs is pretty dumb. KotL and PL are pretty fucked up. Hell, KotL is pretty fucked up. Who gives out free mana? The point of the game is to have a number of ways to win. If they don't, then the game becomes stale and no one takes risks. I absolutely agree with this. In Brood War there was tons of BS abilities/units in the right situations. That ability for those tense moments and wow factors made the game so edge of your seat to watch. That is why I really enjoyed watching TI3. It has those elements. If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him. Natures Prophet has been viable literally forever since the inception of DotA 1 competitive play simply because of teleport. LoH was removed because he wanted to take a step back / retire from dota / Na'Vi. AA was removed because (speculation) of behavioral / chemistry issues. Neither of those changes were a mistake. XBOCT is also one of the top performing carries on LAN, typically, and was one of the (IMO) top3 carry players in TI3. He's a good player. AA getting removed is a big mistake, especially when finding a carry player is a hell of alot easier than an experienced and quality player of AA's caliber. AA was considered the best support in the world back in his VP days with Vigoss, and won multiple big titles in Dota 1. LOH didn't take a step back or retire. He ended up joining Empire. I suspect that Hvost pulled the same bullshit last year after they lost. Having a toxic environment is sometimes a lot worse than having a good environment with "mediocre" players - teams fall apart because of toxic environments. And how many games has Empire played lately? LoH isn't taking competitive gaming very seriously lately. Having a toxic player on a team is the worst thing that could ever happen, no matter how skilled they are. Since there are no coaches for these teams, it would be hard to keep that sort of player under wraps. I don't think Hvost is doing anything and is just fucking with people or poking funny at Puppy. These guys have been friends for a while now.
Lol what? Hvost BLATANTLY disregarded Puppy's call in game against Tongfu g3. See Puppy's 'fountain hooking interview'. Hvost is obviously extremely mad at Puppy and Kuroky. To me, it sounds like Hvost is the most toxic player on the team.
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On August 13 2013 01:33 BurningSera wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 01:13 TheYango wrote:On August 13 2013 00:47 Warri wrote:
He does look pissed in the videos, but i dont know why he would be pissed at kuro. Puppey drafted "cute" stuff that didnt work out. This is the difference between the old Na'Vi and the new Na'Vi. Puppey doesn't just draft "cute" stuff. He drafts what he believes will win. The only flaw is that sometimes this is independent of what Na'Vi's comfort zone is, but with the old Na'Vi this worked because quite simply, LightOfHeaven and Ars-Art had the breadth and the experience to play whatever Puppey wanted them to play. Funn1k and Kuro don't have this breadth, at least, not yet. They have a pretty clearly defined comfort zone with regard to what they can play well. This causes issues even with regard to some popular heroes, such as Funn1k's lackluster performance on Batrider in the finals. In game 4, Burning was saying on the Chinese stream that Na'Vi should have an almost guaranteed win from the draft, but later attributed the loss almost entirely to Funn1k. Also, xboct carried the hell out of navi in ti3, it is unbelievable but he really delivered lol even BurNing was impressed by xboct's freefarm alche.
Actually, the only player who received as much criticism as Funn1k in G4 was Hvost's alchemist. Burning criticized his item choice, his propensity to go top jungling without a TP, his targeting, his efficiency, etc.
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On August 13 2013 01:58 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 01:57 Brainling wrote:On August 13 2013 01:14 FuzzyJAM wrote:On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote:
you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games. 100%. Xboct was the best carry at TI3. Statistically the best carries at TI3 were Loda and Burning, but okay. I don't think his Xboct is crap, but lets be real here. He wasn't the best carry at TI3 by really any measure. As far as him being the "weak link", that's from people who don't understand Dota. Xboct's play style fits Na'vi perfectly, and you couldn't take your standard 4-protect-1 carry and put them on Nav'i...it wouldn't work. It is a problem for Na'vi though when Hvost is playing too aggressive and gets constantly picked, which happened alot even at this TI when he was playing way better than he did last year. Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 01:58 Comeh wrote:On August 13 2013 01:56 superstartran wrote:On August 13 2013 01:53 Comeh wrote:On August 13 2013 01:50 superstartran wrote:On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote:
you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games. Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass. There were multiple times where Hvost got caught with his pants down against Orange and Tongfu, and really it almost cost them the game had they not bailed him out big time. Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead. On August 13 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:On August 13 2013 01:36 BisuDagger wrote:On August 13 2013 01:29 Plansix wrote:On August 13 2013 01:23 ymir233 wrote:On August 13 2013 01:19 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Its no better than Chen and his ability to get a lucky harpy with the first pull and just win mid for free. I'll just pretend like that analogy made sense in terms of gameplay. You win, I totally hated Alliance from when they started way back in Age of Mythology. There is a ton of BS stuff in Dota 2, its why we play it. NP split push of glory is one of them. Puck/lifestealer is also pretty BS. Timber saw and the endless AOEs is pretty dumb. KotL and PL are pretty fucked up. Hell, KotL is pretty fucked up. Who gives out free mana? The point of the game is to have a number of ways to win. If they don't, then the game becomes stale and no one takes risks. I absolutely agree with this. In Brood War there was tons of BS abilities/units in the right situations. That ability for those tense moments and wow factors made the game so edge of your seat to watch. That is why I really enjoyed watching TI3. It has those elements. If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him. Natures Prophet has been viable literally forever since the inception of DotA 1 competitive play simply because of teleport. LoH was removed because he wanted to take a step back / retire from dota / Na'Vi. AA was removed because (speculation) of behavioral / chemistry issues. Neither of those changes were a mistake. XBOCT is also one of the top performing carries on LAN, typically, and was one of the (IMO) top3 carry players in TI3. He's a good player. AA getting removed is a big mistake, especially when finding a carry player is a hell of alot easier than an experienced and quality player of AA's caliber. AA was considered the best support in the world back in his VP days with Vigoss, and won multiple big titles in Dota 1. LOH didn't take a step back or retire. He ended up joining Empire. I suspect that Hvost pulled the same bullshit last year after they lost. Having a toxic environment is sometimes a lot worse than having a good environment with "mediocre" players - teams fall apart because of toxic environments. And how many games has Empire played lately? LoH isn't taking competitive gaming very seriously lately. Who would you rather remove? The guy that is considered by many the weakest link on the team, or the guy who is a proven winner in DotA 1 and is considered by many as one of the best support players of all time? AA has been a top notch support since like 2007. Only problem is Hvost is best friends with the sponsor, so it's almost a for sure thing he's never going to get removed.
I don't think he's the weakest player on the team.
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On August 13 2013 01:58 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 01:57 Brainling wrote:On August 13 2013 01:14 FuzzyJAM wrote:On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote:
you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games. 100%. Xboct was the best carry at TI3. Statistically the best carries at TI3 were Loda and Burning, but okay. I don't think his Xboct is crap, but lets be real here. He wasn't the best carry at TI3 by really any measure. As far as him being the "weak link", that's from people who don't understand Dota. Xboct's play style fits Na'vi perfectly, and you couldn't take your standard 4-protect-1 carry and put them on Nav'i...it wouldn't work. It is a problem for Na'vi though when Hvost is playing too aggressive and gets constantly picked, which happened alot even at this TI when he was playing way better than he did last year.
You could say the same thing about Dendi. That's just Na'vi's style. I've seen Dendi and Puppey make as many crazy "What were you thinking?" aggressive plays as Xboct, but Xboct gets all the crap because he's the carry.
Letting it all hang out is just Na'vis plays style. Most of the time it works, sometimes it doesn't.
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On August 13 2013 01:58 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 01:57 Brainling wrote:On August 13 2013 01:14 FuzzyJAM wrote:On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote:
you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games. 100%. Xboct was the best carry at TI3. Statistically the best carries at TI3 were Loda and Burning, but okay. I don't think his Xboct is crap, but lets be real here. He wasn't the best carry at TI3 by really any measure. As far as him being the "weak link", that's from people who don't understand Dota. Xboct's play style fits Na'vi perfectly, and you couldn't take your standard 4-protect-1 carry and put them on Nav'i...it wouldn't work. It is a problem for Na'vi though when Hvost is playing too aggressive and gets constantly picked, which happened alot even at this TI when he was playing way better than he did last year. Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 01:58 Comeh wrote:On August 13 2013 01:56 superstartran wrote:On August 13 2013 01:53 Comeh wrote:On August 13 2013 01:50 superstartran wrote:On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote:
you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games. Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass. There were multiple times where Hvost got caught with his pants down against Orange and Tongfu, and really it almost cost them the game had they not bailed him out big time. Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead. On August 13 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:On August 13 2013 01:36 BisuDagger wrote:On August 13 2013 01:29 Plansix wrote:On August 13 2013 01:23 ymir233 wrote:On August 13 2013 01:19 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Its no better than Chen and his ability to get a lucky harpy with the first pull and just win mid for free. I'll just pretend like that analogy made sense in terms of gameplay. You win, I totally hated Alliance from when they started way back in Age of Mythology. There is a ton of BS stuff in Dota 2, its why we play it. NP split push of glory is one of them. Puck/lifestealer is also pretty BS. Timber saw and the endless AOEs is pretty dumb. KotL and PL are pretty fucked up. Hell, KotL is pretty fucked up. Who gives out free mana? The point of the game is to have a number of ways to win. If they don't, then the game becomes stale and no one takes risks. I absolutely agree with this. In Brood War there was tons of BS abilities/units in the right situations. That ability for those tense moments and wow factors made the game so edge of your seat to watch. That is why I really enjoyed watching TI3. It has those elements. If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him. Natures Prophet has been viable literally forever since the inception of DotA 1 competitive play simply because of teleport. LoH was removed because he wanted to take a step back / retire from dota / Na'Vi. AA was removed because (speculation) of behavioral / chemistry issues. Neither of those changes were a mistake. XBOCT is also one of the top performing carries on LAN, typically, and was one of the (IMO) top3 carry players in TI3. He's a good player. AA getting removed is a big mistake, especially when finding a carry player is a hell of alot easier than an experienced and quality player of AA's caliber. AA was considered the best support in the world back in his VP days with Vigoss, and won multiple big titles in Dota 1. LOH didn't take a step back or retire. He ended up joining Empire. I suspect that Hvost pulled the same bullshit last year after they lost. Having a toxic environment is sometimes a lot worse than having a good environment with "mediocre" players - teams fall apart because of toxic environments. And how many games has Empire played lately? LoH isn't taking competitive gaming very seriously lately. Who would you rather remove? The guy that is considered by many the weakest link on the team, or the guy who is a proven winner in DotA 1 and is considered by many as one of the best support players of all time? AA has been a top notch support since like 2007. Only problem is Hvost is best friends with the sponsor, so it's almost a for sure thing he's never going to get removed.
You're so wrong. If having AA was toxic then removing him was the best option. It doesn't matter one bit how good he is, and no one will deny that he was amazing. But if there's internal conflict, it's never worth it.
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On August 13 2013 02:00 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 01:56 Sn0_Man wrote:On August 13 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:
If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him. I think I have to disagree with this one. Last year yes, and that is what happened. However, with ~85 heroes picked this tournament, the state of balance in dota has (IMO) never been better. Sure, there are certain heroes that are currently a bit too good, but not very many. And there are relatively quite few heroes that need that much help. I expect a big balance patch sure, but not as sweeping as some of the recent ones that saw noticeable changes to half the hero pool. The baseline for "playable" is very very close to flat right now. A few heroes need nudging up or down, but I strongly feel that bringing every other hero up won't succeed at keeping the level of balance that we saw in TI3. Yes, you can´t just buff everything else when a couple of heroes are too strong, IceFrog knows this. The game just turns to shit with everything being too strong in relation to base stats and items. IceFrog so far has done a really good job tunning down the most OP heroes while buffing the underused ones, I don´t expect he will change his aproach and suddenly stop nerfing heroes.
I assume any nerfs will be minor, like the one to Lifestealer. I expect a minor nerf to wisp to limit the number of relocates that can happen in a period of time and something to bat as well. I also expect something to help characters deal with NP without having to sink 2 supports into chasing him down.
Nothing major, but minor buffs to and nerfs to make everything a little more effective.
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On August 13 2013 02:05 Duka08 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 01:58 superstartran wrote:On August 13 2013 01:57 Brainling wrote:On August 13 2013 01:14 FuzzyJAM wrote:On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote:
you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games. 100%. Xboct was the best carry at TI3. Statistically the best carries at TI3 were Loda and Burning, but okay. I don't think his Xboct is crap, but lets be real here. He wasn't the best carry at TI3 by really any measure. As far as him being the "weak link", that's from people who don't understand Dota. Xboct's play style fits Na'vi perfectly, and you couldn't take your standard 4-protect-1 carry and put them on Nav'i...it wouldn't work. It is a problem for Na'vi though when Hvost is playing too aggressive and gets constantly picked, which happened alot even at this TI when he was playing way better than he did last year. On August 13 2013 01:58 Comeh wrote:On August 13 2013 01:56 superstartran wrote:On August 13 2013 01:53 Comeh wrote:On August 13 2013 01:50 superstartran wrote:On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote:
you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games. Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass. There were multiple times where Hvost got caught with his pants down against Orange and Tongfu, and really it almost cost them the game had they not bailed him out big time. Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead. On August 13 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:On August 13 2013 01:36 BisuDagger wrote:On August 13 2013 01:29 Plansix wrote:On August 13 2013 01:23 ymir233 wrote:
[quote]
I'll just pretend like that analogy made sense in terms of gameplay. You win, I totally hated Alliance from when they started way back in Age of Mythology. There is a ton of BS stuff in Dota 2, its why we play it. NP split push of glory is one of them. Puck/lifestealer is also pretty BS. Timber saw and the endless AOEs is pretty dumb. KotL and PL are pretty fucked up. Hell, KotL is pretty fucked up. Who gives out free mana? The point of the game is to have a number of ways to win. If they don't, then the game becomes stale and no one takes risks. I absolutely agree with this. In Brood War there was tons of BS abilities/units in the right situations. That ability for those tense moments and wow factors made the game so edge of your seat to watch. That is why I really enjoyed watching TI3. It has those elements. If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him. Natures Prophet has been viable literally forever since the inception of DotA 1 competitive play simply because of teleport. LoH was removed because he wanted to take a step back / retire from dota / Na'Vi. AA was removed because (speculation) of behavioral / chemistry issues. Neither of those changes were a mistake. XBOCT is also one of the top performing carries on LAN, typically, and was one of the (IMO) top3 carry players in TI3. He's a good player. AA getting removed is a big mistake, especially when finding a carry player is a hell of alot easier than an experienced and quality player of AA's caliber. AA was considered the best support in the world back in his VP days with Vigoss, and won multiple big titles in Dota 1. LOH didn't take a step back or retire. He ended up joining Empire. I suspect that Hvost pulled the same bullshit last year after they lost. Having a toxic environment is sometimes a lot worse than having a good environment with "mediocre" players - teams fall apart because of toxic environments. And how many games has Empire played lately? LoH isn't taking competitive gaming very seriously lately. Who would you rather remove? The guy that is considered by many the weakest link on the team, or the guy who is a proven winner in DotA 1 and is considered by many as one of the best support players of all time? AA has been a top notch support since like 2007. Only problem is Hvost is best friends with the sponsor, so it's almost a for sure thing he's never going to get removed. You're so wrong. If having AA was toxic then removing him was the best option. It doesn't matter one bit how good he is, and no one will deny that he was amazing. But if there's internal conflict, it's never worth it.
And if it was Hvost the only one who had a problem with him? Who do you remove then? You realize that today it just proves to me that it was Hvost who had a problem with AA. The fact that he publicly called out Ppy and Kky kinda seals the deal for me.
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