Seems like that XBOST really is pissed, probably on Kuroky, since we have this video where he is arguing with Kuroky, it looks like that they are blaming each other or something like that. http://www.twitch.tv/dota2ti_pod_2/b/444218873?t=6h07m00s
On August 13 2013 00:26 Plansix wrote: There is a strong chance you are all being trolled. This is Na'Vi after all.
I really doubt it that he will "tweet" on that site where a lot of people follows him, and that he is trolling. If you look at those Cam videos, he really is pissed all the time.
On August 13 2013 00:31 BlitzerSC wrote: Kuroky thinks he is god or something, but he is not. I wouldn't be surprised if XBOCT called Kuroky useless because that's just the truth.
edit: Maybe he was just trolling or drunk, who knows.
On August 13 2013 00:31 BlitzerSC wrote: Kuroky thinks he is god or something, but he is not. I wouldn't be surprised if XBOCT called Kuroky useless because that's just the truth.
edit: Maybe he was just trolling or drunk, who knows.
It's also possible that navi management intends to break up the current roster because they didn't win. If he's being serious this is the only explanation I can buy at this point. Hopefully it was just a troll but he was pretty mad after game 1.
On August 13 2013 00:26 Plansix wrote: There is a strong chance you are all being trolled. This is Na'Vi after all.
I really doubt it that he will "tweet" on that site where a lot of people follows him, and that he is trolling. If you look at those Cam videos, he really is pissed all the time.
It’s Na’Vi, they are the king of troll teams. They love drama, love to get people riled up and cause problems. This is the same team that will pick Skeleton King just to prove they can beat a team with him. Until you hear more, assume you are being trolled, they love to do this stuff. Have no doubt that they would say “Hey, I bet everyone things we are going to break up after the loss. Watch this.”
I'm sure just frustrated. People need to stop immediately assuming the worst case scenario until something has actually been said. They just took 2nd place, nearly 1st. In such a close series I'm sure they are all kicking themselves and sometimes it just boils over during the games. People who don't think the teams who lost get angry at their team mates surprise me, although most of them don't make their comments public
On August 13 2013 00:31 BlitzerSC wrote: Kuroky thinks he is god or something, but he is not. I wouldn't be surprised if XBOCT called Kuroky useless because that's just the truth.
edit: Maybe he was just trolling or drunk, who knows.
Kuroky useless? He's one of the best support and won Game 3 of the Grand finals for na'vi
On August 13 2013 00:37 zeru wrote: He has to be trolling. He should be aware of by now that hes navis weakest player. Dont take it so seriously imo.
I hear this all the time, what are you people thinking. One of the only 3 people who have been to all TI finals is somehow "weak." The fact that he has a tendency to throw only highlights how good of a carry he is when he doesn't.
On August 13 2013 00:37 zeru wrote: He has to be trolling. He should be aware of by now that hes navis weakest player. Dont take it so seriously imo.
I hear this all the time, what are you people thinking. One of the only 3 people who have been to all TI finals is somehow "weak." The fact that he has a tendency to throw only highlights how good of a carry he is when he doesn't.
An individual doesn't make it to the finals of 3 TIs alone. I'd definitely say that XBOCT is the most replaceable part of NaVi atm.
On August 13 2013 00:44 BillGates wrote: WTF? He is the most useless player on Na'Vi, he can easily be replaced by a better carry. I mean how many times has he just thrown the game away?
That is just not true(anymore). He was really solid in this ti. He does look pissed in the videos, but i dont know why he would be pissed at kuro. Puppey drafted "cute" stuff that didnt work out. Also, i dont know how much that affects them, but kuro is the only one who doesnt speak russian so there might be communication problems after all.
Contrary to what most people think, I don't think xboct is the most easily replaced player in Navi. His aggressive style suits Navi perfectly, and you hardly see any other carry play as aggressively as xboct do. Removing xboct would be change Navi's entire style.
On August 13 2013 00:37 zeru wrote: He has to be trolling. He should be aware of by now that hes navis weakest player. Dont take it so seriously imo.
I hear this all the time, what are you people thinking. One of the only 3 people who have been to all TI finals is somehow "weak." The fact that he has a tendency to throw only highlights how good of a carry he is when he doesn't.
An individual doesn't make it to the finals of 3 TIs alone. I'd definitely say that XBOCT is the most replaceable part of NaVi atm.
Making it to the finals with 3 different line ups makes him look better not worse.
The only possible change I could see is kuroky getting swapped out for vanskor but I really don't think the roster will change. Probably post loss frustrations you lose a shot at another million for two years in a row and you'd get pretty frustrated.
On August 13 2013 00:59 Gentso wrote: Sounds like post TI2 all over again.. internal conflict within the team after not getting first place.
It's funny right? All the teams that didn't make it in the money would probably kill to get second but somehow being there and losing makes it feel so much worse.
Anyways, if anything is going to change in Na'vi's lineup you can expect Kuro to be out. XBOCT is just as Na'vi as Dendi is, and truly he gets way more shit than he deserves for his play.
Kuro GGed without everybody agreeing? Interesting.
This is revisionist, but honestly I feel that if Navi had LOH still, they win this tournament. Puppey, Dendi, LOH, Funn1k and Xboct is terrifying. Even if people play a position they don't normally play, the skill would be massive! Players change slots all the time (usually downward as they get in better teams).
Well this team will be different come TI4 anyways. Bring LOH back!
On August 13 2013 00:37 zeru wrote: He has to be trolling. He should be aware of by now that hes navis weakest player. Dont take it so seriously imo.
True, he failed so much during the Grand final series. Only playing alche and dyin a lot of times freely.
Did we watch the same games? You must've been watching with your feet. XBOCT played his ass off as did the rest of Na`Vi. Honestly I don't think it's a troll because as you could've seen from the pod cameras, the second Kky called the 'early' gg in game 1, XBOCT instantly gets mad and starts making a big deal out of it.
Before game 2 started, Dendi had to keep reassuring XBOCT etc.
I don't think anyone knows the facts for sure so it's better to take everything on the INTERNET with a grain of salt until we have confirmed sources. XBOCT might just be a bit pissed, but I doubt Navi will make any significant replacements. Puppey + KKY and XBOCT + Funn1k are two bromances that just can't be broken like that.
On August 13 2013 01:01 BisuDagger wrote: I'd be pissed if I had Dendi on my team in that finals game too. XBOST knows his teammates are no Nature's Prophet TP spam.
On August 13 2013 00:47 Warri wrote: He does look pissed in the videos, but i dont know why he would be pissed at kuro. Puppey drafted "cute" stuff that didnt work out.
This is the difference between the old Na'Vi and the new Na'Vi.
Puppey doesn't just draft "cute" stuff. He drafts what he believes will win. The only flaw is that sometimes this is independent of what Na'Vi's comfort zone is, but with the old Na'Vi this worked because quite simply, LightOfHeaven and Ars-Art had the breadth and the experience to play whatever Puppey wanted them to play.
Funn1k and Kuro don't have this breadth, at least, not yet. They have a pretty clearly defined comfort zone with regard to what they can play well. This causes issues even with regard to some popular heroes, such as Funn1k's lackluster performance on Batrider in the finals. In game 4, Burning was saying on the Chinese stream that Na'Vi should have an almost guaranteed win from the draft, but later attributed the loss almost entirely to Funn1k.
On August 13 2013 01:01 BisuDagger wrote: I'd be pissed if I had Dendi on my team in that finals game too. XBOST knows his teammates are no Nature's Prophet TP spam.
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
On August 13 2013 01:01 BisuDagger wrote: I'd be pissed if I had Dendi on my team in that finals game too. XBOST knows his teammates are no Nature's Prophet TP spam.
Fixed that for you
You can hate greatness all you want. It's just counter intuitive.You should learn to welcome greatness into your hearts.
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
It is so true. Xboct played so well and receoved from some amazing set backs. People who think they can just replace him just don't really understand Dota 2.
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
You don't even have to comprehend DOTA. In case of XBOCT the results speak for themselves and there is no room for interpretation. He is by far the most accomplished carry in DOTA2 and frankly if you think that makes him easily replaceable, then you dont know anything about ESPORTS.
On August 13 2013 00:47 Warri wrote: He does look pissed in the videos, but i dont know why he would be pissed at kuro. Puppey drafted "cute" stuff that didnt work out.
Funn1k and Kuro don't have this breadth, at least, not yet. They have a pretty clearly defined comfort zone with regard to what they can play well. This causes issues even with regard to some popular heroes, such as Funn1k's lackluster performance on Batrider in the finals. In game 4, Burning was saying on the Chinese stream that Na'Vi should have an almost guaranteed win from the draft, but later attributed the loss almost entirely to Funn1k.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed this - Funn1k really did play poorly in the finals.
On August 13 2013 01:01 BisuDagger wrote: I'd be pissed if I had Dendi on my team in that finals game too. XBOST knows his teammates are no Nature's Prophet TP spam.
Fixed that for you
You can hate greatness all you want. It's just counter intuitive.You should learn to welcome greatness into your hearts.
Alliance played great, Bulldog played great, s4 played great during a time of ridiculous pressure. I don't hate split push. But TP everywhere/treants break my heart.
On August 13 2013 01:01 BisuDagger wrote: I'd be pissed if I had Dendi on my team in that finals game too. XBOST knows his teammates are no Nature's Prophet TP spam.
Fixed that for you
You can hate greatness all you want. It's just counter intuitive.You should learn to welcome greatness into your hearts.
Alliance played great, Bulldog played great, s4 played great during a time of ridiculous pressure. I don't hate split push. But TP everywhere/treants break my heart.
Its no better than Chen and his ability to get a lucky harpy with the first pull and just win mid for free.
On August 13 2013 00:47 Warri wrote: He does look pissed in the videos, but i dont know why he would be pissed at kuro. Puppey drafted "cute" stuff that didnt work out.
This is the difference between the old Na'Vi and the new Na'Vi.
Puppey doesn't just draft "cute" stuff. He drafts what he believes will win. The only flaw is that sometimes this is independent of what Na'Vi's comfort zone is, but with the old Na'Vi this worked because quite simply, LightOfHeaven and Ars-Art had the breadth and the experience to play whatever Puppey wanted them to play.
Funn1k and Kuro don't have this breadth, at least, not yet. They have a pretty clearly defined comfort zone with regard to what they can play well. This causes issues even with regard to some popular heroes, such as Funn1k's lackluster performance on Batrider in the finals. In game 4, Burning was saying on the Chinese stream that Na'Vi should have an almost guaranteed win from the draft, but later attributed the loss almost entirely to Funn1k.
This pretty much sums up the current navi team. Funn1k's Batrider is honestly pretty bad compared to most of the other batriders and you can clearly see him not feeling comfortable on him. Kurokys rubick also outshines most of his other heroes and it was really painful to see navi lose the game because of a bad batrider :/
Also people should stop calling xboct the weakest navi player. He has shown this TI that he is one of the best carries and that he can play very versatile. There was a period where his play looked lackluster and he "threw" a few of games , but to be honest he is playing pretty damn well at the moment. Navi's playstyle would change quite a bit if they were to replace xboct with a different carry player. Beside that, there are barely anyother carries with the amount of tournament experience that xboct has. He has always proven himself on LAN
On August 13 2013 01:01 BisuDagger wrote: I'd be pissed if I had Dendi on my team in that finals game too. XBOST knows his teammates are no Nature's Prophet TP spam.
Fixed that for you
You can hate greatness all you want. It's just counter intuitive.You should learn to welcome greatness into your hearts.
Alliance played great, Bulldog played great, s4 played great during a time of ridiculous pressure. I don't hate split push. But TP everywhere/treants break my heart.
Its no better than Chen and his ability to get a lucky harpy with the first pull and just win mid for free.
I'll just pretend like that analogy made sense in terms of gameplay. You win, I totally hated Alliance from when they started way back in Age of Mythology.
On August 13 2013 00:31 BlitzerSC wrote: Kuroky thinks he is god or something, but he is not. I wouldn't be surprised if XBOCT called Kuroky useless because that's just the truth.
edit: Maybe he was just trolling or drunk, who knows.
Any flaming he's directing towards kuroky is likely due to him not speaking Russian, since kuroky's Rubick and wisp games were stellar. I think if anything Xboct would be mad at Funn1k after how questionably he played yesterday (although he made some clutch plays too).
And I don't understand the flaming towards Xboct by people on this site and gosugamers. Yes he has a history of making dumb decisions and throwing games in the past but he was solid in this international. He was easily the best carry player yesterday.
On August 13 2013 00:31 BlitzerSC wrote: Kuroky thinks he is god or something, but he is not. I wouldn't be surprised if XBOCT called Kuroky useless because that's just the truth.
edit: Maybe he was just trolling or drunk, who knows.
No i think kuroky knows he is in deep sh*t lol, look at his face on the interviews before grand finals, i would have flamed the sh*t out of him (as usual) if he didnt win the Game3 for Navi.
On August 13 2013 00:47 Warri wrote: He does look pissed in the videos, but i dont know why he would be pissed at kuro. Puppey drafted "cute" stuff that didnt work out.
This is the difference between the old Na'Vi and the new Na'Vi.
Puppey doesn't just draft "cute" stuff. He drafts what he believes will win. The only flaw is that sometimes this is independent of what Na'Vi's comfort zone is, but with the old Na'Vi this worked because quite simply, LightOfHeaven and Ars-Art had the breadth and the experience to play whatever Puppey wanted them to play.
Funn1k and Kuro don't have this breadth, at least, not yet. They have a pretty clearly defined comfort zone with regard to what they can play well. This causes issues even with regard to some popular heroes, such as Funn1k's lackluster performance on Batrider in the finals. In game 4, Burning was saying on the Chinese stream that Na'Vi should have an almost guaranteed win from the draft, but later attributed the loss almost entirely to Funn1k.
This pretty much sums up the current navi team. Funn1k's Batrider is honestly pretty bad compared to most of the other batriders and you can clearly see him not feeling comfortable on him. Kurokys rubick also outshines most of his other heroes and it was really painful to see navi lose the game because of a bad batrider :/
Also people should stop calling xboct the weakest navi player. He has shown this TI that he is one of the best carries and that he can play very versatile. There was a period where his play looked lackluster and he "threw" a few of games , but to be honest he is playing pretty damn well at the moment. Navi's playstyle would change quite a bit if they were to replace xboct with a different carry player. Beside that, there are barely anyother carries with the amount of tournament experience that xboct has. He has always proven himself on LAN
I think Kuro has a bit more work to do as improving of a support player - I think his performance lately has been a bit lackluster. I often see pretty obviously positioning mistakes on him as compared to someone like EGM, and I think his other heroes besides rubick are typically pretty underwhelming.
On August 13 2013 01:01 BisuDagger wrote: I'd be pissed if I had Dendi on my team in that finals game too. XBOST knows his teammates are no Nature's Prophet TP spam.
Fixed that for you
You can hate greatness all you want. It's just counter intuitive.You should learn to welcome greatness into your hearts.
Alliance played great, Bulldog played great, s4 played great during a time of ridiculous pressure. I don't hate split push. But TP everywhere/treants break my heart.
Its no better than Chen and his ability to get a lucky harpy with the first pull and just win mid for free.
I'll just pretend like that analogy made sense in terms of gameplay. You win, I totally hated Alliance from when they started way back in Age of Mythology.
There is a ton of BS stuff in Dota 2, its why we play it. NP split push of glory is one of them. Puck/lifestealer is also pretty BS. Timber saw and the endless AOEs is pretty dumb. KotL and PL are pretty fucked up. Hell, KotL is pretty fucked up. Who gives out free mana?
The point of the game is to have a number of ways to win. If they don't, then the game becomes stale and no one takes risks.
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
Exactly. Just because xboct's style deviates from the standard carry styles of Black/Burning/Loda/Sylar/Aui_2000 doesn't mean it's a worst style. Navi are an aggressive team that likes to create chaos and disrupt their opponents tempo. Arguably no other carry does this better than xboct.
On August 13 2013 00:47 Warri wrote: He does look pissed in the videos, but i dont know why he would be pissed at kuro. Puppey drafted "cute" stuff that didnt work out.
This is the difference between the old Na'Vi and the new Na'Vi.
Puppey doesn't just draft "cute" stuff. He drafts what he believes will win. The only flaw is that sometimes this is independent of what Na'Vi's comfort zone is, but with the old Na'Vi this worked because quite simply, LightOfHeaven and Ars-Art had the breadth and the experience to play whatever Puppey wanted them to play.
Funn1k and Kuro don't have this breadth, at least, not yet. They have a pretty clearly defined comfort zone with regard to what they can play well. This causes issues even with regard to some popular heroes, such as Funn1k's lackluster performance on Batrider in the finals. In game 4, Burning was saying on the Chinese stream that Na'Vi should have an almost guaranteed win from the draft, but later attributed the loss almost entirely to Funn1k.
Thats why i said i cannot like this new Navi after the roster change, funnik is very talented and all but he really made some questionable decisions on some heroes but that kuroky guy is just.....i ll save some flame this time because of what he did for Navi in that game3.
I love puppey exactly like what you said about those amazing drafting, he is not too bad himself and dendi/xboct almost always deliver on many different heroes and then AA+LoH will compliment/compensate for whatever they lack of, Navi at TI2 was beautiful, because I know this team has unlimited potential, dendi's rubick can make some GREAT shows due to the unsung hero AA supporting the team behind (I miss AA's Lesh so much T_T).
Also, xboct carried the hell out of navi in ti3, it is unbelievable but he really delivered lol even BurNing was impressed by xboct's freefarm alche.
On August 13 2013 00:47 Warri wrote: He does look pissed in the videos, but i dont know why he would be pissed at kuro. Puppey drafted "cute" stuff that didnt work out.
This is the difference between the old Na'Vi and the new Na'Vi.
Puppey doesn't just draft "cute" stuff. He drafts what he believes will win. The only flaw is that sometimes this is independent of what Na'Vi's comfort zone is, but with the old Na'Vi this worked because quite simply, LightOfHeaven and Ars-Art had the breadth and the experience to play whatever Puppey wanted them to play. Funn1k and Kuro don't have this breadth, at least, not yet. They have a pretty clearly defined comfort zone with regard to what they can play well. This causes issues even with regard to some popular heroes, such as Funn1k's lackluster performance on Batrider in the finals. In game 4, Burning was saying on the Chinese stream that Na'Vi should have an almost guaranteed win from the draft, but later attributed the loss almost entirely to Funn1k.
I don't know when Funn1k entered the scene, but saying that Kuroky doesn't have the same 'breath' as LoH and Ars-Art is wrong in my opinion. After all, Kuro is part of the scene for nearly as long as LoH. The first time I heard of LoH was after SP's victory in Pick League Season 2. Shortly after Kuroky became part of World Eaters, who were only a second tier team at that time, but they won PL S1. And Kuro stood out as their best player by far, playing carry or semi-carry back then. LoH was one of the scene's biggest names together with vigoss as Fear's glory time at col was just over (I think). Same with Ars-Art. But from patch 6.52 onwards Kuro was arguably the best (non-Sea) carry player and overly hyped. All of this happened quite some time ago, and I think it doesn't make that much of a difference if someone is in the scene for 5 years or for 6 years. It wasn't until Dota 2, that Kuroky switched his role to support. Which LoH, who was always carry, and Ars-Art, who was mostly ganker or semi-carry, never did. But since Kuroky is used to different roles, and he has shown to be able to excel in both, I just find it wrong to say he doesn't have the breadth of LoH or Ars-Art.
Even if he isn't trolling, that was quite stellar performance by Na'Vi. Yes, they got second, by they played toe-to-toe with Alliance and let's face it, if they didn't misplayed badly and s4 didn't manage to cancel the TPs, they would have probably won that.
Na'Vi have shown times and times again, that if they have their 3 core players (Puppey, XBOCT and Dendi) they are still going to be a top team no matter what. I think if someone was to go, it probably would be KuroKy, purely on that he isn't fluent in Russian. I still hope Smile will end up in the roster once again.
I don't think you can blame him or Funn1k for the bad performance. It is team after all. XBOCT has thrown so much games it is not even funny. Yes, he played quite well in the tournament as a whole, but nobody is immune from having a bad day.
To be honest even if Funn1k didnt play amazingly, they lost the game because they completely panicked when the split push was coming. They were chasing kills, backing, hesitating and couldnt made up their mind and reasonably think about the situation. Game was basically won at this moment for Navi but they completely screwed. That and the fucking roshan bash on Dendi :-/
I still don't get how, after TI3 people can still call Hvost a bad carry, and an easy replaceable. Well whatever, they will recover and everything will be fine.
On August 13 2013 01:01 BisuDagger wrote: I'd be pissed if I had Dendi on my team in that finals game too. XBOST knows his teammates are no Nature's Prophet TP spam.
Fixed that for you
You can hate greatness all you want. It's just counter intuitive.You should learn to welcome greatness into your hearts.
Alliance played great, Bulldog played great, s4 played great during a time of ridiculous pressure. I don't hate split push. But TP everywhere/treants break my heart.
Its no better than Chen and his ability to get a lucky harpy with the first pull and just win mid for free.
I'll just pretend like that analogy made sense in terms of gameplay. You win, I totally hated Alliance from when they started way back in Age of Mythology.
There is a ton of BS stuff in Dota 2, its why we play it. NP split push of glory is one of them. Puck/lifestealer is also pretty BS. Timber saw and the endless AOEs is pretty dumb. KotL and PL are pretty fucked up. Hell, KotL is pretty fucked up. Who gives out free mana?
The point of the game is to have a number of ways to win. If they don't, then the game becomes stale and no one takes risks.
I absolutely agree with this. In Brood War there was tons of BS abilities/units in the right situations. That ability for those tense moments and wow factors made the game so edge of your seat to watch. That is why I really enjoyed watching TI3. It has those elements.
On August 13 2013 00:47 Warri wrote: He does look pissed in the videos, but i dont know why he would be pissed at kuro. Puppey drafted "cute" stuff that didnt work out.
This is the difference between the old Na'Vi and the new Na'Vi.
Puppey doesn't just draft "cute" stuff. He drafts what he believes will win. The only flaw is that sometimes this is independent of what Na'Vi's comfort zone is, but with the old Na'Vi this worked because quite simply, LightOfHeaven and Ars-Art had the breadth and the experience to play whatever Puppey wanted them to play. Funn1k and Kuro don't have this breadth, at least, not yet. They have a pretty clearly defined comfort zone with regard to what they can play well. This causes issues even with regard to some popular heroes, such as Funn1k's lackluster performance on Batrider in the finals. In game 4, Burning was saying on the Chinese stream that Na'Vi should have an almost guaranteed win from the draft, but later attributed the loss almost entirely to Funn1k.
I don't know when Funn1k entered the scene, but saying that Kuroky doesn't have the same 'breath' as LoH and Ars-Art is wrong in my opinion. After all, Kuro is part of the scene for nearly as long as LoH. The first time I heard of LoH was after SP's victory in Pick League Season 2. Shortly after Kuroky became part of World Eaters, who were only a second tier team at that time, but they won PL S1. And Kuro stood out as their best player by far, playing carry or semi-carry back then. LoH was one of the scene's biggest names together with vigoss as Fear's glory time at col was just over (I think). Same with Ars-Art. But from patch 6.52 onwards Kuro was arguably the best (non-Sea) carry player and overly hyped. All of this happened quite some time ago, and I think it doesn't make that much of a difference if someone is in the scene for 5 years or for 6 years. It wasn't until Dota 2, that Kuroky switched his role to support. Which LoH, who was always carry, and Ars-Art, who was mostly ganker or semi-carry, never did. But since Kuroky is used to different roles, and he has shown to be able to excel in both, I just find it wrong to say he doesn't have the breadth of LoH or Ars-Art.
He doesn't though. It doesn't matter where he comes from or what he's done. At this current moment of time he didn't have the breath that AA had in the role KKY is playing. He might one day gain that breath but that is irrelevant to what happened in TI3
On August 13 2013 00:47 Warri wrote: He does look pissed in the videos, but i dont know why he would be pissed at kuro. Puppey drafted "cute" stuff that didnt work out.
This is the difference between the old Na'Vi and the new Na'Vi.
Puppey doesn't just draft "cute" stuff. He drafts what he believes will win. The only flaw is that sometimes this is independent of what Na'Vi's comfort zone is, but with the old Na'Vi this worked because quite simply, LightOfHeaven and Ars-Art had the breadth and the experience to play whatever Puppey wanted them to play. Funn1k and Kuro don't have this breadth, at least, not yet. They have a pretty clearly defined comfort zone with regard to what they can play well. This causes issues even with regard to some popular heroes, such as Funn1k's lackluster performance on Batrider in the finals. In game 4, Burning was saying on the Chinese stream that Na'Vi should have an almost guaranteed win from the draft, but later attributed the loss almost entirely to Funn1k.
I don't know when Funn1k entered the scene, but saying that Kuroky doesn't have the same 'breath' as LoH and Ars-Art is wrong in my opinion. After all, Kuro is part of the scene for nearly as long as LoH. The first time I heard of LoH was after SP's victory in Pick League Season 2. Shortly after Kuroky became part of World Eaters, who were only a second tier team at that time, but they won PL S1. And Kuro stood out as their best player by far, playing carry or semi-carry back then. LoH was one of the scene's biggest names together with vigoss as Fear's glory time at col was just over (I think). Same with Ars-Art. But from patch 6.52 onwards Kuro was arguably the best (non-Sea) carry player and overly hyped. All of this happened quite some time ago, and I think it doesn't make that much of a difference if someone is in the scene for 5 years or for 6 years. It wasn't until Dota 2, that Kuroky switched his role to support. Which LoH, who was always carry, and Ars-Art, who was mostly ganker or semi-carry, never did. But since Kuroky is used to different roles, and he has shown to be able to excel in both, I just find it wrong to say he doesn't have the breadth of LoH or Ars-Art.
He doesn't though. It doesn't matter where he comes from or what he's done. At this current moment of time he didn't have the breath that AA had in the role KKY is playing. He might one day gain that breath but that is irrelevant to what happened in TI3
Absolutely true.
LoH could play practically every offlane / solo role he was put into at a near perfect level - KKY is a support player that doesn't perform as highly on support as AA did.
On August 13 2013 01:01 BisuDagger wrote: I'd be pissed if I had Dendi on my team in that finals game too. XBOST knows his teammates are no Nature's Prophet TP spam.
Fixed that for you
You can hate greatness all you want. It's just counter intuitive.You should learn to welcome greatness into your hearts.
Alliance played great, Bulldog played great, s4 played great during a time of ridiculous pressure. I don't hate split push. But TP everywhere/treants break my heart.
Its no better than Chen and his ability to get a lucky harpy with the first pull and just win mid for free.
I'll just pretend like that analogy made sense in terms of gameplay. You win, I totally hated Alliance from when they started way back in Age of Mythology.
There is a ton of BS stuff in Dota 2, its why we play it. NP split push of glory is one of them. Puck/lifestealer is also pretty BS. Timber saw and the endless AOEs is pretty dumb. KotL and PL are pretty fucked up. Hell, KotL is pretty fucked up. Who gives out free mana?
The point of the game is to have a number of ways to win. If they don't, then the game becomes stale and no one takes risks.
I absolutely agree with this. In Brood War there was tons of BS abilities/units in the right situations. That ability for those tense moments and wow factors made the game so edge of your seat to watch. That is why I really enjoyed watching TI3. It has those elements.
If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him.
On August 13 2013 01:01 BisuDagger wrote: I'd be pissed if I had Dendi on my team in that finals game too. XBOST knows his teammates are no Nature's Prophet TP spam.
Fixed that for you
You can hate greatness all you want. It's just counter intuitive.You should learn to welcome greatness into your hearts.
Alliance played great, Bulldog played great, s4 played great during a time of ridiculous pressure. I don't hate split push. But TP everywhere/treants break my heart.
Its no better than Chen and his ability to get a lucky harpy with the first pull and just win mid for free.
I'll just pretend like that analogy made sense in terms of gameplay. You win, I totally hated Alliance from when they started way back in Age of Mythology.
There is a ton of BS stuff in Dota 2, its why we play it. NP split push of glory is one of them. Puck/lifestealer is also pretty BS. Timber saw and the endless AOEs is pretty dumb. KotL and PL are pretty fucked up. Hell, KotL is pretty fucked up. Who gives out free mana?
The point of the game is to have a number of ways to win. If they don't, then the game becomes stale and no one takes risks.
I absolutely agree with this. In Brood War there was tons of BS abilities/units in the right situations. That ability for those tense moments and wow factors made the game so edge of your seat to watch. That is why I really enjoyed watching TI3. It has those elements.
If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him.
Yup. The nerf or remove approach from blizzard in SC2 only reduced the amount of fun things available. Remember how awesome it was to watch snipe vs ultras in the MVP vs JulyZerg game. Now ghosts suck to watch. I feel like if something is removed something must be added or you are always going backwards.
oh come on just stop arguing who is more useless, who throw more and so on, its painful to recover so many times from elimination and yet lost at the final game. Its XBOCT he may be trolling he may be serious but I really doubt that Na Vi will kick Kuroky cuz xboct wants it its not Alliance and what they've done with EE cuz loda dont like him
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
You don't even have to comprehend DOTA. In case of XBOCT the results speak for themselves and there is no room for interpretation. He is by far the most accomplished carry in DOTA2 and frankly if you think that makes him easily replaceable, then you dont know anything about ESPORTS.
Pretty much this. XBoct played absolutely amazing here in TI3. He farmed many comebacks and made huge plays. In the games where it counted, he barely 'threw' games at all. Sure he played without motivation in many competitions leading up to TI3, which is why he was rated '4' as a carry. But in an enviroment that counts, he has performed extremely well. They definately didn't lose because of him. Does it justify blaming his teammates? No, and its not a very mature thing to do. But he has played computer games his whole life probably, and at some point he will get his reality check.
However, as many have pointed out, funnik and kuroky have a couple of heroes that they play very well, as seen with kurokys rubik and perhaps with funniks bh, but they lack the experience to play a larger pool of heroes, and that is what lost Na'Vi the finals. funniks batrider was really quite mediocre imo
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass. There were multiple times where Hvost got caught with his pants down against Orange and Tongfu, and really it almost cost them the game had they not bailed him out big time.
Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead.
On August 13 2013 01:01 BisuDagger wrote: I'd be pissed if I had Dendi on my team in that finals game too. XBOST knows his teammates are no Nature's Prophet TP spam.
Fixed that for you
You can hate greatness all you want. It's just counter intuitive.You should learn to welcome greatness into your hearts.
Alliance played great, Bulldog played great, s4 played great during a time of ridiculous pressure. I don't hate split push. But TP everywhere/treants break my heart.
Its no better than Chen and his ability to get a lucky harpy with the first pull and just win mid for free.
I'll just pretend like that analogy made sense in terms of gameplay. You win, I totally hated Alliance from when they started way back in Age of Mythology.
There is a ton of BS stuff in Dota 2, its why we play it. NP split push of glory is one of them. Puck/lifestealer is also pretty BS. Timber saw and the endless AOEs is pretty dumb. KotL and PL are pretty fucked up. Hell, KotL is pretty fucked up. Who gives out free mana?
The point of the game is to have a number of ways to win. If they don't, then the game becomes stale and no one takes risks.
I absolutely agree with this. In Brood War there was tons of BS abilities/units in the right situations. That ability for those tense moments and wow factors made the game so edge of your seat to watch. That is why I really enjoyed watching TI3. It has those elements.
If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him.
Natures Prophet has been viable literally forever since the inception of DotA 1 competitive play simply because of teleport. He's one of those conceptually broken heroes because of that one damn skill.
I guess there's a chance that Navi can get LoH back because from what I understand he got replaced because he wasn't practicing enough. Not competing in an international is probably enough motivation to get him back into form, and maybe the return!?
On August 13 2013 01:01 BisuDagger wrote: I'd be pissed if I had Dendi on my team in that finals game too. XBOST knows his teammates are no Nature's Prophet TP spam.
Fixed that for you
You can hate greatness all you want. It's just counter intuitive.You should learn to welcome greatness into your hearts.
Alliance played great, Bulldog played great, s4 played great during a time of ridiculous pressure. I don't hate split push. But TP everywhere/treants break my heart.
Its no better than Chen and his ability to get a lucky harpy with the first pull and just win mid for free.
I'll just pretend like that analogy made sense in terms of gameplay. You win, I totally hated Alliance from when they started way back in Age of Mythology.
There is a ton of BS stuff in Dota 2, its why we play it. NP split push of glory is one of them. Puck/lifestealer is also pretty BS. Timber saw and the endless AOEs is pretty dumb. KotL and PL are pretty fucked up. Hell, KotL is pretty fucked up. Who gives out free mana?
The point of the game is to have a number of ways to win. If they don't, then the game becomes stale and no one takes risks.
I absolutely agree with this. In Brood War there was tons of BS abilities/units in the right situations. That ability for those tense moments and wow factors made the game so edge of your seat to watch. That is why I really enjoyed watching TI3. It has those elements.
If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him.
Yup. The nerf or remove approach from blizzard in SC2 only reduced the amount of fun things available. Remember how awesome it was to watch snipe vs ultras in the MVP vs JulyZerg game. Now ghosts suck to watch. I feel like if something is removed something must be added or you are always going backwards.
I can't really blame or Blizzard for that, though. The only reason I know nerfing is bad is because of SC2. If you asked me when I started playing SC2, I would have said you need to nerf stuff that is to good. It is only through my experience with that game that I now know that nerfing stuff is bad and unstable games are better than stable ones. Unstable games means you have to figure stuff out, stable ones just like you sit back and do what is standard. Also, if Blizzard went that route right now, the community would explode(not that I care that much, they need a good kick in the ass)
Dota 2 benifits a lot from Icefrog giving no fucks about the community or their whining. He didn't nerf anything they begged for(like PL) and only buff stuff that he thought would deal with it. Its the, "Fine, here is some shit thats awesome, you figure it out" approach. Its better, more exciting and generally leads to a more happy community. And the lack of a ladder, which is a great way to make people keep playing your game.
Want to get rid of ladder anxiety? Remove the ladder.
On August 13 2013 00:31 BlitzerSC wrote: Kuroky thinks he is god or something, but he is not. I wouldn't be surprised if XBOCT called Kuroky useless because that's just the truth.
edit: Maybe he was just trolling or drunk, who knows.
Are you kidding me? kuroky is a god, he played great all ti3..
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass.
Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead.
lol dude acutally with LOH and AA, they were great I agreed on that, but they feel as most of the fans that they need a change to grow up as a team, LOH seemed pretty unmotivated, yet I prefer AA over Kuro as a 5th position since he was just amazing. on a side not about xboct he's troll he loves to throw, but when actually did you see him troll important game in important competition ?
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass. There were multiple times where Hvost got caught with his pants down against Orange and Tongfu, and really it almost cost them the game had they not bailed him out big time.
Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead.
On August 13 2013 01:01 BisuDagger wrote: I'd be pissed if I had Dendi on my team in that finals game too. XBOST knows his teammates are no Nature's Prophet TP spam.
Fixed that for you
You can hate greatness all you want. It's just counter intuitive.You should learn to welcome greatness into your hearts.
Alliance played great, Bulldog played great, s4 played great during a time of ridiculous pressure. I don't hate split push. But TP everywhere/treants break my heart.
Its no better than Chen and his ability to get a lucky harpy with the first pull and just win mid for free.
I'll just pretend like that analogy made sense in terms of gameplay. You win, I totally hated Alliance from when they started way back in Age of Mythology.
There is a ton of BS stuff in Dota 2, its why we play it. NP split push of glory is one of them. Puck/lifestealer is also pretty BS. Timber saw and the endless AOEs is pretty dumb. KotL and PL are pretty fucked up. Hell, KotL is pretty fucked up. Who gives out free mana?
The point of the game is to have a number of ways to win. If they don't, then the game becomes stale and no one takes risks.
I absolutely agree with this. In Brood War there was tons of BS abilities/units in the right situations. That ability for those tense moments and wow factors made the game so edge of your seat to watch. That is why I really enjoyed watching TI3. It has those elements.
If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him.
Natures Prophet has been viable literally forever since the inception of DotA 1 competitive play simply because of teleport.
LoH was removed because he wanted to take a step back / retire from dota / Na'Vi.
AA was removed because (speculation) of behavioral / chemistry issues.
Neither of those changes were a mistake.
XBOCT is also one of the top performing carries on LAN, typically, and was one of the (IMO) top3 carry players in TI3. He's a good player.
You can hate greatness all you want. It's just counter intuitive.You should learn to welcome greatness into your hearts.
Alliance played great, Bulldog played great, s4 played great during a time of ridiculous pressure. I don't hate split push. But TP everywhere/treants break my heart.
Its no better than Chen and his ability to get a lucky harpy with the first pull and just win mid for free.
I'll just pretend like that analogy made sense in terms of gameplay. You win, I totally hated Alliance from when they started way back in Age of Mythology.
There is a ton of BS stuff in Dota 2, its why we play it. NP split push of glory is one of them. Puck/lifestealer is also pretty BS. Timber saw and the endless AOEs is pretty dumb. KotL and PL are pretty fucked up. Hell, KotL is pretty fucked up. Who gives out free mana?
The point of the game is to have a number of ways to win. If they don't, then the game becomes stale and no one takes risks.
I absolutely agree with this. In Brood War there was tons of BS abilities/units in the right situations. That ability for those tense moments and wow factors made the game so edge of your seat to watch. That is why I really enjoyed watching TI3. It has those elements.
If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him.
Yup. The nerf or remove approach from blizzard in SC2 only reduced the amount of fun things available. Remember how awesome it was to watch snipe vs ultras in the MVP vs JulyZerg game. Now ghosts suck to watch. I feel like if something is removed something must be added or you are always going backwards.
I can't really blame or Blizzard for that, though. The only reason I know nerfing is bad is because of SC2. If you asked me when I started playing SC2, I would have said you need to nerf stuff that is to good. It is only through my experience with that game that I now know that nerfing stuff is bad and unstable games are better than stable ones. Unstable games means you have to figure stuff out, stable ones just like you sit back and do what is standard. Also, if Blizzard went that route right now, the community would explode(not that I care that much, they need a good kick in the ass)
Dota 2 benifits a lot from Icefrog giving no fucks about the community or their whining. He didn't nerf anything they begged for(like PL) and only buff stuff that he thought would deal with it. Its the, "Fine, here is some shit thats awesome, you figure it out" approach. Its better, more exciting and generally leads to a more happy community. And the lack of a ladder, which is a great way to make people keep playing your game.
Want to get rid of ladder anxiety? Remove the ladder.
He did nerf PL and even other pubstomping heroes in the past though.
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
You don't even have to comprehend DOTA. In case of XBOCT the results speak for themselves and there is no room for interpretation. He is by far the most accomplished carry in DOTA2 and frankly if you think that makes him easily replaceable, then you dont know anything about ESPORTS.
Pretty much this. XBoct played absolutely amazing here in TI3. He farmed many comebacks and made huge plays. In the games where it counted, he barely 'threw' games at all. Sure he played without motivation in many competitions leading up to TI3, which is why he was rated '4' as a carry. But in an enviroment that counts, he has performed extremely well. They definately didn't lose because of him. Does it justify blaming his teammates? No, and its not a very mature thing to do. But he has played computer games his whole life probably, and at some point he will get his reality check.
However, as many have pointed out, funnik and kuroky have a couple of heroes that they play very well, as seen with kurokys rubik and perhaps with funniks bh, but they lack the experience to play a larger pool of heroes, and that is what lost Na'Vi the finals. funniks batrider was really quite mediocre imo
Well I don't think it has something to do with maturity. They go throught intense emotions, and huge frustration. They lost 700k on a dream coil (and no tp on dendi), this is not something you can sweep easily and move on, few hours after.
On August 13 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote: If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him.
I think I have to disagree with this one. Last year yes, and that is what happened. However, with ~85 heroes picked this tournament, the state of balance in dota has (IMO) never been better. Sure, there are certain heroes that are currently a bit too good, but not very many. And there are relatively quite few heroes that need that much help. I expect a big balance patch sure, but not as sweeping as some of the recent ones that saw noticeable changes to half the hero pool. The baseline for "playable" is very very close to flat right now. A few heroes need nudging up or down, but I strongly feel that bringing every other hero up won't succeed at keeping the level of balance that we saw in TI3.
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass. There were multiple times where Hvost got caught with his pants down against Orange and Tongfu, and really it almost cost them the game had they not bailed him out big time.
Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead.
On August 13 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:36 BisuDagger wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:29 Plansix wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:23 ymir233 wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:19 Plansix wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:18 ymir233 wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:15 BisuDagger wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:12 ymir233 wrote: [quote]
Fixed that for you
You can hate greatness all you want. It's just counter intuitive.You should learn to welcome greatness into your hearts.
Alliance played great, Bulldog played great, s4 played great during a time of ridiculous pressure. I don't hate split push. But TP everywhere/treants break my heart.
Its no better than Chen and his ability to get a lucky harpy with the first pull and just win mid for free.
I'll just pretend like that analogy made sense in terms of gameplay. You win, I totally hated Alliance from when they started way back in Age of Mythology.
There is a ton of BS stuff in Dota 2, its why we play it. NP split push of glory is one of them. Puck/lifestealer is also pretty BS. Timber saw and the endless AOEs is pretty dumb. KotL and PL are pretty fucked up. Hell, KotL is pretty fucked up. Who gives out free mana?
The point of the game is to have a number of ways to win. If they don't, then the game becomes stale and no one takes risks.
I absolutely agree with this. In Brood War there was tons of BS abilities/units in the right situations. That ability for those tense moments and wow factors made the game so edge of your seat to watch. That is why I really enjoyed watching TI3. It has those elements.
If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him.
Natures Prophet has been viable literally forever since the inception of DotA 1 competitive play simply because of teleport.
LoH was removed because he wanted to take a step back / retire from dota / Na'Vi.
AA was removed because (speculation) of behavioral / chemistry issues.
Neither of those changes were a mistake.
XBOCT is also one of the top performing carries on LAN, typically, and was one of the (IMO) top3 carry players in TI3. He's a good player.
AA getting removed is a big mistake, especially when finding a carry player is a hell of alot easier than an experienced and quality player of AA's caliber. AA was considered the best support in the world back in his VP days with Vigoss, and won multiple big titles in Dota 1.
LOH didn't take a step back or retire. He ended up joining Empire. I suspect that Hvost pulled the same bullshit last year after they lost.
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
100%.
Xboct was the best carry at TI3.
Statistically the best carries at TI3 were Loda and Burning, but okay.
I don't think Xboct is crap, but lets be real here. He wasn't the best carry at TI3 by really any measure.
As far as him being the "weak link", that's from people who don't understand Dota. Xboct's play style fits Na'vi perfectly, and you couldn't take your standard 4-protect-1 carry and put them on Nav'i...it wouldn't work.
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass. There were multiple times where Hvost got caught with his pants down against Orange and Tongfu, and really it almost cost them the game had they not bailed him out big time.
Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead.
On August 13 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:36 BisuDagger wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:29 Plansix wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:23 ymir233 wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:19 Plansix wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:18 ymir233 wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:15 BisuDagger wrote: [quote] You can hate greatness all you want. It's just counter intuitive.You should learn to welcome greatness into your hearts.
Alliance played great, Bulldog played great, s4 played great during a time of ridiculous pressure. I don't hate split push. But TP everywhere/treants break my heart.
Its no better than Chen and his ability to get a lucky harpy with the first pull and just win mid for free.
I'll just pretend like that analogy made sense in terms of gameplay. You win, I totally hated Alliance from when they started way back in Age of Mythology.
There is a ton of BS stuff in Dota 2, its why we play it. NP split push of glory is one of them. Puck/lifestealer is also pretty BS. Timber saw and the endless AOEs is pretty dumb. KotL and PL are pretty fucked up. Hell, KotL is pretty fucked up. Who gives out free mana?
The point of the game is to have a number of ways to win. If they don't, then the game becomes stale and no one takes risks.
I absolutely agree with this. In Brood War there was tons of BS abilities/units in the right situations. That ability for those tense moments and wow factors made the game so edge of your seat to watch. That is why I really enjoyed watching TI3. It has those elements.
If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him.
Natures Prophet has been viable literally forever since the inception of DotA 1 competitive play simply because of teleport.
LoH was removed because he wanted to take a step back / retire from dota / Na'Vi.
AA was removed because (speculation) of behavioral / chemistry issues.
Neither of those changes were a mistake.
XBOCT is also one of the top performing carries on LAN, typically, and was one of the (IMO) top3 carry players in TI3. He's a good player.
AA getting removed is a big mistake, especially when finding a carry player is a hell of alot easier than an experienced and quality player of AA's caliber. AA was considered the best support in the world back in his VP days with Vigoss, and won multiple big titles in Dota 1.
LOH didn't take a step back or retire. He ended up joining Empire. I suspect that Hvost pulled the same bullshit last year after they lost.
Having a toxic environment is sometimes a lot worse than having a good environment with "mediocre" players - teams fall apart because of toxic environments.
And how many games has Empire played lately? LoH isn't taking competitive gaming very seriously lately.
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
100%.
Xboct was the best carry at TI3.
Statistically the best carries at TI3 were Loda and Burning, but okay.
I don't think his Xboct is crap, but lets be real here. He wasn't the best carry at TI3 by really any measure.
As far as him being the "weak link", that's from people who don't understand Dota. Xboct's play style fits Na'vi perfectly, and you couldn't take your standard 4-protect-1 carry and put them on Nav'i...it wouldn't work.
It is a problem for Na'vi though when Hvost is playing too aggressive and gets constantly picked, which happened alot even at this TI when he was playing way better than he did last year.
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass. There were multiple times where Hvost got caught with his pants down against Orange and Tongfu, and really it almost cost them the game had they not bailed him out big time.
Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead.
On August 13 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:36 BisuDagger wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:29 Plansix wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:23 ymir233 wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:19 Plansix wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:18 ymir233 wrote: [quote]
Alliance played great, Bulldog played great, s4 played great during a time of ridiculous pressure. I don't hate split push. But TP everywhere/treants break my heart.
Its no better than Chen and his ability to get a lucky harpy with the first pull and just win mid for free.
I'll just pretend like that analogy made sense in terms of gameplay. You win, I totally hated Alliance from when they started way back in Age of Mythology.
There is a ton of BS stuff in Dota 2, its why we play it. NP split push of glory is one of them. Puck/lifestealer is also pretty BS. Timber saw and the endless AOEs is pretty dumb. KotL and PL are pretty fucked up. Hell, KotL is pretty fucked up. Who gives out free mana?
The point of the game is to have a number of ways to win. If they don't, then the game becomes stale and no one takes risks.
I absolutely agree with this. In Brood War there was tons of BS abilities/units in the right situations. That ability for those tense moments and wow factors made the game so edge of your seat to watch. That is why I really enjoyed watching TI3. It has those elements.
If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him.
Natures Prophet has been viable literally forever since the inception of DotA 1 competitive play simply because of teleport.
LoH was removed because he wanted to take a step back / retire from dota / Na'Vi.
AA was removed because (speculation) of behavioral / chemistry issues.
Neither of those changes were a mistake.
XBOCT is also one of the top performing carries on LAN, typically, and was one of the (IMO) top3 carry players in TI3. He's a good player.
AA getting removed is a big mistake, especially when finding a carry player is a hell of alot easier than an experienced and quality player of AA's caliber. AA was considered the best support in the world back in his VP days with Vigoss, and won multiple big titles in Dota 1.
LOH didn't take a step back or retire. He ended up joining Empire. I suspect that Hvost pulled the same bullshit last year after they lost.
Having a toxic environment is sometimes a lot worse than having a good environment with "mediocre" players - teams fall apart because of toxic environments.
And how many games has Empire played lately? LoH isn't taking competitive gaming very seriously lately.
Who would you rather remove? The guy that is considered by many the weakest link on the team, or the guy who is a proven winner in DotA 1 and is considered by many as one of the best support players of all time? AA has been a top notch support since like 2007.
Only problem is Hvost is best friends with the sponsor, so it's almost a for sure thing he's never going to get removed.
On August 13 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote: If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him.
I think I have to disagree with this one. Last year yes, and that is what happened. However, with ~85 heroes picked this tournament, the state of balance in dota has (IMO) never been better. Sure, there are certain heroes that are currently a bit too good, but not very many. And there are relatively quite few heroes that need that much help. I expect a big balance patch sure, but not as sweeping as some of the recent ones that saw noticeable changes to half the hero pool. The baseline for "playable" is very very close to flat right now. A few heroes need nudging up or down, but I strongly feel that bringing every other hero up won't succeed at keeping the level of balance that we saw in TI3.
Yes, you can´t just buff everything else when a couple of heroes are too strong, IceFrog knows this. The game just turns to shit with everything being too strong in relation to base stats and items. IceFrog so far has done a really good job tunning down the most OP heroes while buffing the underused ones, I don´t expect he will change his aproach and suddenly stop nerfing heroes.
Eh, XBOCT carried damn well throughout the entire tournament. Also, Na'vi didn't lose the finals because of Kuroky's and Funn1k's inexperience, they lost it because of a retarded draft in game 1 and a couple of unlucky (or lucky on [a]'s side) split-second decisions, like the almost-working all in on Balanar in game 4 and the confused fights @ Roshan and barrack trades in game 5. Of course they're going to be massively frustrated and angry, not because their result is bad but because their result is so amazingly close to being even better. If they do go for any roster changes, it would be dropping Kuro in favour of a Russian-speaking player just to make communication more natural imo, but it makes no sense whatsoever to make any further changes unless there's a huge conflict / falling out that can't be reconciled between players. The line between winning and losing the grand finals had been razor thin, and despite some minor hiccups, they have melted massive amounts of faces on the way to the finals and prior to TI3.
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass. There were multiple times where Hvost got caught with his pants down against Orange and Tongfu, and really it almost cost them the game had they not bailed him out big time.
Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead.
On August 13 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:36 BisuDagger wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:29 Plansix wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:23 ymir233 wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:19 Plansix wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:18 ymir233 wrote: [quote]
Alliance played great, Bulldog played great, s4 played great during a time of ridiculous pressure. I don't hate split push. But TP everywhere/treants break my heart.
Its no better than Chen and his ability to get a lucky harpy with the first pull and just win mid for free.
I'll just pretend like that analogy made sense in terms of gameplay. You win, I totally hated Alliance from when they started way back in Age of Mythology.
There is a ton of BS stuff in Dota 2, its why we play it. NP split push of glory is one of them. Puck/lifestealer is also pretty BS. Timber saw and the endless AOEs is pretty dumb. KotL and PL are pretty fucked up. Hell, KotL is pretty fucked up. Who gives out free mana?
The point of the game is to have a number of ways to win. If they don't, then the game becomes stale and no one takes risks.
I absolutely agree with this. In Brood War there was tons of BS abilities/units in the right situations. That ability for those tense moments and wow factors made the game so edge of your seat to watch. That is why I really enjoyed watching TI3. It has those elements.
If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him.
Natures Prophet has been viable literally forever since the inception of DotA 1 competitive play simply because of teleport.
LoH was removed because he wanted to take a step back / retire from dota / Na'Vi.
AA was removed because (speculation) of behavioral / chemistry issues.
Neither of those changes were a mistake.
XBOCT is also one of the top performing carries on LAN, typically, and was one of the (IMO) top3 carry players in TI3. He's a good player.
AA getting removed is a big mistake, especially when finding a carry player is a hell of alot easier than an experienced and quality player of AA's caliber. AA was considered the best support in the world back in his VP days with Vigoss, and won multiple big titles in Dota 1.
LOH didn't take a step back or retire. He ended up joining Empire. I suspect that Hvost pulled the same bullshit last year after they lost.
Having a toxic environment is sometimes a lot worse than having a good environment with "mediocre" players - teams fall apart because of toxic environments.
And how many games has Empire played lately? LoH isn't taking competitive gaming very seriously lately.
Having a toxic player on a team is the worst thing that could ever happen, no matter how skilled they are. Since there are no coaches for these teams, it would be hard to keep that sort of player under wraps. I don't think Hvost is doing anything and is just fucking with people or poking funny at Puppy. These guys have been friends for a while now.
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass. There were multiple times where Hvost got caught with his pants down against Orange and Tongfu, and really it almost cost them the game had they not bailed him out big time.
Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead.
On August 13 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:36 BisuDagger wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:29 Plansix wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:23 ymir233 wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:19 Plansix wrote: [quote] Its no better than Chen and his ability to get a lucky harpy with the first pull and just win mid for free.
I'll just pretend like that analogy made sense in terms of gameplay. You win, I totally hated Alliance from when they started way back in Age of Mythology.
There is a ton of BS stuff in Dota 2, its why we play it. NP split push of glory is one of them. Puck/lifestealer is also pretty BS. Timber saw and the endless AOEs is pretty dumb. KotL and PL are pretty fucked up. Hell, KotL is pretty fucked up. Who gives out free mana?
The point of the game is to have a number of ways to win. If they don't, then the game becomes stale and no one takes risks.
I absolutely agree with this. In Brood War there was tons of BS abilities/units in the right situations. That ability for those tense moments and wow factors made the game so edge of your seat to watch. That is why I really enjoyed watching TI3. It has those elements.
If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him.
Natures Prophet has been viable literally forever since the inception of DotA 1 competitive play simply because of teleport.
LoH was removed because he wanted to take a step back / retire from dota / Na'Vi.
AA was removed because (speculation) of behavioral / chemistry issues.
Neither of those changes were a mistake.
XBOCT is also one of the top performing carries on LAN, typically, and was one of the (IMO) top3 carry players in TI3. He's a good player.
AA getting removed is a big mistake, especially when finding a carry player is a hell of alot easier than an experienced and quality player of AA's caliber. AA was considered the best support in the world back in his VP days with Vigoss, and won multiple big titles in Dota 1.
LOH didn't take a step back or retire. He ended up joining Empire. I suspect that Hvost pulled the same bullshit last year after they lost.
Having a toxic environment is sometimes a lot worse than having a good environment with "mediocre" players - teams fall apart because of toxic environments.
And how many games has Empire played lately? LoH isn't taking competitive gaming very seriously lately.
Having a toxic player on a team is the worst thing that could ever happen, no matter how skilled they are. Since there are no coaches for these teams, it would be hard to keep that sort of player under wraps. I don't think Hvost is doing anything and is just fucking with people or poking funny at Puppy. These guys have been friends for a while now.
Lol what? Hvost BLATANTLY disregarded Puppy's call in game against Tongfu g3. See Puppy's 'fountain hooking interview'. Hvost is obviously extremely mad at Puppy and Kuroky. To me, it sounds like Hvost is the most toxic player on the team.
On August 13 2013 00:47 Warri wrote: He does look pissed in the videos, but i dont know why he would be pissed at kuro. Puppey drafted "cute" stuff that didnt work out.
This is the difference between the old Na'Vi and the new Na'Vi.
Puppey doesn't just draft "cute" stuff. He drafts what he believes will win. The only flaw is that sometimes this is independent of what Na'Vi's comfort zone is, but with the old Na'Vi this worked because quite simply, LightOfHeaven and Ars-Art had the breadth and the experience to play whatever Puppey wanted them to play.
Funn1k and Kuro don't have this breadth, at least, not yet. They have a pretty clearly defined comfort zone with regard to what they can play well. This causes issues even with regard to some popular heroes, such as Funn1k's lackluster performance on Batrider in the finals. In game 4, Burning was saying on the Chinese stream that Na'Vi should have an almost guaranteed win from the draft, but later attributed the loss almost entirely to Funn1k.
Also, xboct carried the hell out of navi in ti3, it is unbelievable but he really delivered lol even BurNing was impressed by xboct's freefarm alche.
Actually, the only player who received as much criticism as Funn1k in G4 was Hvost's alchemist. Burning criticized his item choice, his propensity to go top jungling without a TP, his targeting, his efficiency, etc.
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
100%.
Xboct was the best carry at TI3.
Statistically the best carries at TI3 were Loda and Burning, but okay.
I don't think his Xboct is crap, but lets be real here. He wasn't the best carry at TI3 by really any measure.
As far as him being the "weak link", that's from people who don't understand Dota. Xboct's play style fits Na'vi perfectly, and you couldn't take your standard 4-protect-1 carry and put them on Nav'i...it wouldn't work.
It is a problem for Na'vi though when Hvost is playing too aggressive and gets constantly picked, which happened alot even at this TI when he was playing way better than he did last year.
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass. There were multiple times where Hvost got caught with his pants down against Orange and Tongfu, and really it almost cost them the game had they not bailed him out big time.
Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead.
On August 13 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:36 BisuDagger wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:29 Plansix wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:23 ymir233 wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:19 Plansix wrote: [quote] Its no better than Chen and his ability to get a lucky harpy with the first pull and just win mid for free.
I'll just pretend like that analogy made sense in terms of gameplay. You win, I totally hated Alliance from when they started way back in Age of Mythology.
There is a ton of BS stuff in Dota 2, its why we play it. NP split push of glory is one of them. Puck/lifestealer is also pretty BS. Timber saw and the endless AOEs is pretty dumb. KotL and PL are pretty fucked up. Hell, KotL is pretty fucked up. Who gives out free mana?
The point of the game is to have a number of ways to win. If they don't, then the game becomes stale and no one takes risks.
I absolutely agree with this. In Brood War there was tons of BS abilities/units in the right situations. That ability for those tense moments and wow factors made the game so edge of your seat to watch. That is why I really enjoyed watching TI3. It has those elements.
If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him.
Natures Prophet has been viable literally forever since the inception of DotA 1 competitive play simply because of teleport.
LoH was removed because he wanted to take a step back / retire from dota / Na'Vi.
AA was removed because (speculation) of behavioral / chemistry issues.
Neither of those changes were a mistake.
XBOCT is also one of the top performing carries on LAN, typically, and was one of the (IMO) top3 carry players in TI3. He's a good player.
AA getting removed is a big mistake, especially when finding a carry player is a hell of alot easier than an experienced and quality player of AA's caliber. AA was considered the best support in the world back in his VP days with Vigoss, and won multiple big titles in Dota 1.
LOH didn't take a step back or retire. He ended up joining Empire. I suspect that Hvost pulled the same bullshit last year after they lost.
Having a toxic environment is sometimes a lot worse than having a good environment with "mediocre" players - teams fall apart because of toxic environments.
And how many games has Empire played lately? LoH isn't taking competitive gaming very seriously lately.
Who would you rather remove? The guy that is considered by many the weakest link on the team, or the guy who is a proven winner in DotA 1 and is considered by many as one of the best support players of all time? AA has been a top notch support since like 2007.
Only problem is Hvost is best friends with the sponsor, so it's almost a for sure thing he's never going to get removed.
I don't think he's the weakest player on the team.
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
100%.
Xboct was the best carry at TI3.
Statistically the best carries at TI3 were Loda and Burning, but okay.
I don't think his Xboct is crap, but lets be real here. He wasn't the best carry at TI3 by really any measure.
As far as him being the "weak link", that's from people who don't understand Dota. Xboct's play style fits Na'vi perfectly, and you couldn't take your standard 4-protect-1 carry and put them on Nav'i...it wouldn't work.
It is a problem for Na'vi though when Hvost is playing too aggressive and gets constantly picked, which happened alot even at this TI when he was playing way better than he did last year.
You could say the same thing about Dendi. That's just Na'vi's style. I've seen Dendi and Puppey make as many crazy "What were you thinking?" aggressive plays as Xboct, but Xboct gets all the crap because he's the carry.
Letting it all hang out is just Na'vis plays style. Most of the time it works, sometimes it doesn't.
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
100%.
Xboct was the best carry at TI3.
Statistically the best carries at TI3 were Loda and Burning, but okay.
I don't think his Xboct is crap, but lets be real here. He wasn't the best carry at TI3 by really any measure.
As far as him being the "weak link", that's from people who don't understand Dota. Xboct's play style fits Na'vi perfectly, and you couldn't take your standard 4-protect-1 carry and put them on Nav'i...it wouldn't work.
It is a problem for Na'vi though when Hvost is playing too aggressive and gets constantly picked, which happened alot even at this TI when he was playing way better than he did last year.
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass. There were multiple times where Hvost got caught with his pants down against Orange and Tongfu, and really it almost cost them the game had they not bailed him out big time.
Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead.
On August 13 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:36 BisuDagger wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:29 Plansix wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:23 ymir233 wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:19 Plansix wrote: [quote] Its no better than Chen and his ability to get a lucky harpy with the first pull and just win mid for free.
I'll just pretend like that analogy made sense in terms of gameplay. You win, I totally hated Alliance from when they started way back in Age of Mythology.
There is a ton of BS stuff in Dota 2, its why we play it. NP split push of glory is one of them. Puck/lifestealer is also pretty BS. Timber saw and the endless AOEs is pretty dumb. KotL and PL are pretty fucked up. Hell, KotL is pretty fucked up. Who gives out free mana?
The point of the game is to have a number of ways to win. If they don't, then the game becomes stale and no one takes risks.
I absolutely agree with this. In Brood War there was tons of BS abilities/units in the right situations. That ability for those tense moments and wow factors made the game so edge of your seat to watch. That is why I really enjoyed watching TI3. It has those elements.
If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him.
Natures Prophet has been viable literally forever since the inception of DotA 1 competitive play simply because of teleport.
LoH was removed because he wanted to take a step back / retire from dota / Na'Vi.
AA was removed because (speculation) of behavioral / chemistry issues.
Neither of those changes were a mistake.
XBOCT is also one of the top performing carries on LAN, typically, and was one of the (IMO) top3 carry players in TI3. He's a good player.
AA getting removed is a big mistake, especially when finding a carry player is a hell of alot easier than an experienced and quality player of AA's caliber. AA was considered the best support in the world back in his VP days with Vigoss, and won multiple big titles in Dota 1.
LOH didn't take a step back or retire. He ended up joining Empire. I suspect that Hvost pulled the same bullshit last year after they lost.
Having a toxic environment is sometimes a lot worse than having a good environment with "mediocre" players - teams fall apart because of toxic environments.
And how many games has Empire played lately? LoH isn't taking competitive gaming very seriously lately.
Who would you rather remove? The guy that is considered by many the weakest link on the team, or the guy who is a proven winner in DotA 1 and is considered by many as one of the best support players of all time? AA has been a top notch support since like 2007.
Only problem is Hvost is best friends with the sponsor, so it's almost a for sure thing he's never going to get removed.
You're so wrong. If having AA was toxic then removing him was the best option. It doesn't matter one bit how good he is, and no one will deny that he was amazing. But if there's internal conflict, it's never worth it.
On August 13 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote: If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him.
I think I have to disagree with this one. Last year yes, and that is what happened. However, with ~85 heroes picked this tournament, the state of balance in dota has (IMO) never been better. Sure, there are certain heroes that are currently a bit too good, but not very many. And there are relatively quite few heroes that need that much help. I expect a big balance patch sure, but not as sweeping as some of the recent ones that saw noticeable changes to half the hero pool. The baseline for "playable" is very very close to flat right now. A few heroes need nudging up or down, but I strongly feel that bringing every other hero up won't succeed at keeping the level of balance that we saw in TI3.
Yes, you can´t just buff everything else when a couple of heroes are too strong, IceFrog knows this. The game just turns to shit with everything being too strong in relation to base stats and items. IceFrog so far has done a really good job tunning down the most OP heroes while buffing the underused ones, I don´t expect he will change his aproach and suddenly stop nerfing heroes.
I assume any nerfs will be minor, like the one to Lifestealer. I expect a minor nerf to wisp to limit the number of relocates that can happen in a period of time and something to bat as well. I also expect something to help characters deal with NP without having to sink 2 supports into chasing him down.
Nothing major, but minor buffs to and nerfs to make everything a little more effective.
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
100%.
Xboct was the best carry at TI3.
Statistically the best carries at TI3 were Loda and Burning, but okay.
I don't think his Xboct is crap, but lets be real here. He wasn't the best carry at TI3 by really any measure.
As far as him being the "weak link", that's from people who don't understand Dota. Xboct's play style fits Na'vi perfectly, and you couldn't take your standard 4-protect-1 carry and put them on Nav'i...it wouldn't work.
It is a problem for Na'vi though when Hvost is playing too aggressive and gets constantly picked, which happened alot even at this TI when he was playing way better than he did last year.
On August 13 2013 01:58 Comeh wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:56 superstartran wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:53 Comeh wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:50 superstartran wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass. There were multiple times where Hvost got caught with his pants down against Orange and Tongfu, and really it almost cost them the game had they not bailed him out big time.
Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead.
On August 13 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:36 BisuDagger wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:29 Plansix wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:23 ymir233 wrote: [quote]
I'll just pretend like that analogy made sense in terms of gameplay. You win, I totally hated Alliance from when they started way back in Age of Mythology.
There is a ton of BS stuff in Dota 2, its why we play it. NP split push of glory is one of them. Puck/lifestealer is also pretty BS. Timber saw and the endless AOEs is pretty dumb. KotL and PL are pretty fucked up. Hell, KotL is pretty fucked up. Who gives out free mana?
The point of the game is to have a number of ways to win. If they don't, then the game becomes stale and no one takes risks.
I absolutely agree with this. In Brood War there was tons of BS abilities/units in the right situations. That ability for those tense moments and wow factors made the game so edge of your seat to watch. That is why I really enjoyed watching TI3. It has those elements.
If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him.
Natures Prophet has been viable literally forever since the inception of DotA 1 competitive play simply because of teleport.
LoH was removed because he wanted to take a step back / retire from dota / Na'Vi.
AA was removed because (speculation) of behavioral / chemistry issues.
Neither of those changes were a mistake.
XBOCT is also one of the top performing carries on LAN, typically, and was one of the (IMO) top3 carry players in TI3. He's a good player.
AA getting removed is a big mistake, especially when finding a carry player is a hell of alot easier than an experienced and quality player of AA's caliber. AA was considered the best support in the world back in his VP days with Vigoss, and won multiple big titles in Dota 1.
LOH didn't take a step back or retire. He ended up joining Empire. I suspect that Hvost pulled the same bullshit last year after they lost.
Having a toxic environment is sometimes a lot worse than having a good environment with "mediocre" players - teams fall apart because of toxic environments.
And how many games has Empire played lately? LoH isn't taking competitive gaming very seriously lately.
Who would you rather remove? The guy that is considered by many the weakest link on the team, or the guy who is a proven winner in DotA 1 and is considered by many as one of the best support players of all time? AA has been a top notch support since like 2007.
Only problem is Hvost is best friends with the sponsor, so it's almost a for sure thing he's never going to get removed.
You're so wrong. If having AA was toxic then removing him was the best option. It doesn't matter one bit how good he is, and no one will deny that he was amazing. But if there's internal conflict, it's never worth it.
And if it was Hvost the only one who had a problem with him? Who do you remove then? You realize that today it just proves to me that it was Hvost who had a problem with AA. The fact that he publicly called out Ppy and Kky kinda seals the deal for me.
I am a huge Navi fan and i also watch the Russian streams so i know what is going on (more or less).
Kuroky There are currently 3 problems with Kuroky. a) Language barrier. They have to speak in English to communicate. (Only Puppey speaks very good English). Who doesn't think this is huge just look (NTH + EE -> [A] + EGM) b) Puppey is a 4 pos player. Kuroky should play like a 5 (hard support) but he plays like a 3.5 (support with a lot of farm). This has obvious complications (map vision). Navi most of the time plays in the dark. Kuroky farms his dagger /force staff /arcane instead of buying wards/sentries. There are more complications with a team not having a true 5 pos player (good dota players understand it). c) Kuroky was captain in Mouz. He wanted to have a lot of influence in draft and ingame decisions. Two captains in a team is more a problem than a help. f.e. Kuroky calling gg in the first game is really really bad. a) He is not the captain b) Teammates didn't want to gg yet c) He is last person (with funnik) who should call gg cause he has the least experience with TI level games.
Kuroky replacement is not a surprise. He will be replaced by a Russian speaking player. Most likely (my opinion) it will be Vanskor.
On August 13 2013 02:06 Navi_fan wrote: I am a huge Navi fan and i also watch the Russian streams so i know what is going on (more or less).
Kuroky There are currently 3 problems with Kuroky. a) Language barrier. They have to speak in English to communicate. (Only Puppey speaks very good English). Who doesn't think this is huge just look (NTH + EE -> [A] + EGM) b) Puppey is a 4 pos player. Kuroky should play like a 5 (hard support) but he plays like a 3.5 (support with a lot of farm). This has obvious complications (map vision). Navi most of the time plays in the dark. Kuroky farms his dagger /force staff /arcane instead of buying wards/sentries. There are more complications with a team not having a true 5 pos player (good dota players understand it). c) Kuroky was captain in Mouz. He wanted to have a lot of influence in draft and ingame decisions. Two captains in a team is more a problem than a help. f.e. Kuroky calling gg in the first game is really really bad. a) He is not the captain b) Teammates didn't want to gg yet c) He is last person (with funnik) who should call gg cause he has the least experience with TI level games.
Kuroky replacement is not a surprise. He will be replaced by a Russian speaking player. Most likely (my opinion) it will be Vanskor.
Kky shouldn't have called the GG on that, but it was very obvious that game was over. Na'vi had no way to comeback into that game because of no carry nor did they have any kind of big aoe ult to 5 man wipe Alliance, and Alliance simply had a far stronger line-up.
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
100%.
Xboct was the best carry at TI3.
Statistically the best carries at TI3 were Loda and Burning, but okay.
I don't think his Xboct is crap, but lets be real here. He wasn't the best carry at TI3 by really any measure.
As far as him being the "weak link", that's from people who don't understand Dota. Xboct's play style fits Na'vi perfectly, and you couldn't take your standard 4-protect-1 carry and put them on Nav'i...it wouldn't work.
It is a problem for Na'vi though when Hvost is playing too aggressive and gets constantly picked, which happened alot even at this TI when he was playing way better than he did last year.
On August 13 2013 01:58 Comeh wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:56 superstartran wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:53 Comeh wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:50 superstartran wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass. There were multiple times where Hvost got caught with his pants down against Orange and Tongfu, and really it almost cost them the game had they not bailed him out big time.
Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead.
On August 13 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:36 BisuDagger wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:29 Plansix wrote: [quote] There is a ton of BS stuff in Dota 2, its why we play it. NP split push of glory is one of them. Puck/lifestealer is also pretty BS. Timber saw and the endless AOEs is pretty dumb. KotL and PL are pretty fucked up. Hell, KotL is pretty fucked up. Who gives out free mana?
The point of the game is to have a number of ways to win. If they don't, then the game becomes stale and no one takes risks.
I absolutely agree with this. In Brood War there was tons of BS abilities/units in the right situations. That ability for those tense moments and wow factors made the game so edge of your seat to watch. That is why I really enjoyed watching TI3. It has those elements.
If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him.
Natures Prophet has been viable literally forever since the inception of DotA 1 competitive play simply because of teleport.
LoH was removed because he wanted to take a step back / retire from dota / Na'Vi.
AA was removed because (speculation) of behavioral / chemistry issues.
Neither of those changes were a mistake.
XBOCT is also one of the top performing carries on LAN, typically, and was one of the (IMO) top3 carry players in TI3. He's a good player.
AA getting removed is a big mistake, especially when finding a carry player is a hell of alot easier than an experienced and quality player of AA's caliber. AA was considered the best support in the world back in his VP days with Vigoss, and won multiple big titles in Dota 1.
LOH didn't take a step back or retire. He ended up joining Empire. I suspect that Hvost pulled the same bullshit last year after they lost.
Having a toxic environment is sometimes a lot worse than having a good environment with "mediocre" players - teams fall apart because of toxic environments.
And how many games has Empire played lately? LoH isn't taking competitive gaming very seriously lately.
Who would you rather remove? The guy that is considered by many the weakest link on the team, or the guy who is a proven winner in DotA 1 and is considered by many as one of the best support players of all time? AA has been a top notch support since like 2007.
Only problem is Hvost is best friends with the sponsor, so it's almost a for sure thing he's never going to get removed.
You're so wrong. If having AA was toxic then removing him was the best option. It doesn't matter one bit how good he is, and no one will deny that he was amazing. But if there's internal conflict, it's never worth it.
And if it was Hvost the only one who had a problem with him? Who do you remove then? You realize that today it just proves to me that it was Hvost who had a problem with AA. The fact that he publicly called out Ppy and Kky kinda seals the deal for me.
Or he is trolling your ass because he thinks its funny. This is Na'Vi we are talking about.
Maybe Na'Vi removes no one and they just play again next year. You do know that it is possible to not change the line up and professional sports teams do it all the time.
I like how everyone is talking like Kuroky already got replaced, or somehow had a crap International. Kuroky played brilliantly this International. Other than the GG issue he was more than fine.
I still feel like Xboct is trolling us all and we're having a six page discussion about it, as if we're the management of Na'vi.
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
100%.
Xboct was the best carry at TI3.
Statistically the best carries at TI3 were Loda and Burning, but okay.
I don't think his Xboct is crap, but lets be real here. He wasn't the best carry at TI3 by really any measure.
As far as him being the "weak link", that's from people who don't understand Dota. Xboct's play style fits Na'vi perfectly, and you couldn't take your standard 4-protect-1 carry and put them on Nav'i...it wouldn't work.
It is a problem for Na'vi though when Hvost is playing too aggressive and gets constantly picked, which happened alot even at this TI when he was playing way better than he did last year.
On August 13 2013 01:58 Comeh wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:56 superstartran wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:53 Comeh wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:50 superstartran wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass. There were multiple times where Hvost got caught with his pants down against Orange and Tongfu, and really it almost cost them the game had they not bailed him out big time.
Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead.
On August 13 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:36 BisuDagger wrote: [quote] I absolutely agree with this. In Brood War there was tons of BS abilities/units in the right situations. That ability for those tense moments and wow factors made the game so edge of your seat to watch. That is why I really enjoyed watching TI3. It has those elements.
If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him.
Natures Prophet has been viable literally forever since the inception of DotA 1 competitive play simply because of teleport.
LoH was removed because he wanted to take a step back / retire from dota / Na'Vi.
AA was removed because (speculation) of behavioral / chemistry issues.
Neither of those changes were a mistake.
XBOCT is also one of the top performing carries on LAN, typically, and was one of the (IMO) top3 carry players in TI3. He's a good player.
AA getting removed is a big mistake, especially when finding a carry player is a hell of alot easier than an experienced and quality player of AA's caliber. AA was considered the best support in the world back in his VP days with Vigoss, and won multiple big titles in Dota 1.
LOH didn't take a step back or retire. He ended up joining Empire. I suspect that Hvost pulled the same bullshit last year after they lost.
Having a toxic environment is sometimes a lot worse than having a good environment with "mediocre" players - teams fall apart because of toxic environments.
And how many games has Empire played lately? LoH isn't taking competitive gaming very seriously lately.
Who would you rather remove? The guy that is considered by many the weakest link on the team, or the guy who is a proven winner in DotA 1 and is considered by many as one of the best support players of all time? AA has been a top notch support since like 2007.
Only problem is Hvost is best friends with the sponsor, so it's almost a for sure thing he's never going to get removed.
You're so wrong. If having AA was toxic then removing him was the best option. It doesn't matter one bit how good he is, and no one will deny that he was amazing. But if there's internal conflict, it's never worth it.
And if it was Hvost the only one who had a problem with him? Who do you remove then? You realize that today it just proves to me that it was Hvost who had a problem with AA. The fact that he publicly called out Ppy and Kky kinda seals the deal for me.
Or he is trolling your ass because he thinks its funny. This is Na'Vi we are talking about.
Maybe Na'Vi removes no one and they just play again next year. You do know that it is possible to not change the line up and professional sports teams do it all the time.
Dude, are you serious?
Hvost is the single reason why Dendi and Puppy had to resort to fountain hooking. Puppy told Hvost to go aggressive tri-lane to avoid Tongfu's aggressive tri-lane, disregards advice, and puts Na'vi at a massive disadvantage at the start. It is in Puppy's own interview regarding the fountain hook situation and why they did it. If you think you are such a badass that you don't have to listen to your Captain (who is by far the BEST captain in the world outside of s4) you are a fucking toxic jackass.
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
100%.
Xboct was the best carry at TI3.
Statistically the best carries at TI3 were Loda and Burning, but okay.
I don't think his Xboct is crap, but lets be real here. He wasn't the best carry at TI3 by really any measure.
As far as him being the "weak link", that's from people who don't understand Dota. Xboct's play style fits Na'vi perfectly, and you couldn't take your standard 4-protect-1 carry and put them on Nav'i...it wouldn't work.
It is a problem for Na'vi though when Hvost is playing too aggressive and gets constantly picked, which happened alot even at this TI when he was playing way better than he did last year.
On August 13 2013 01:58 Comeh wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:56 superstartran wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:53 Comeh wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:50 superstartran wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass. There were multiple times where Hvost got caught with his pants down against Orange and Tongfu, and really it almost cost them the game had they not bailed him out big time.
Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead.
On August 13 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote: [quote] If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him.
Natures Prophet has been viable literally forever since the inception of DotA 1 competitive play simply because of teleport.
LoH was removed because he wanted to take a step back / retire from dota / Na'Vi.
AA was removed because (speculation) of behavioral / chemistry issues.
Neither of those changes were a mistake.
XBOCT is also one of the top performing carries on LAN, typically, and was one of the (IMO) top3 carry players in TI3. He's a good player.
AA getting removed is a big mistake, especially when finding a carry player is a hell of alot easier than an experienced and quality player of AA's caliber. AA was considered the best support in the world back in his VP days with Vigoss, and won multiple big titles in Dota 1.
LOH didn't take a step back or retire. He ended up joining Empire. I suspect that Hvost pulled the same bullshit last year after they lost.
Having a toxic environment is sometimes a lot worse than having a good environment with "mediocre" players - teams fall apart because of toxic environments.
And how many games has Empire played lately? LoH isn't taking competitive gaming very seriously lately.
Who would you rather remove? The guy that is considered by many the weakest link on the team, or the guy who is a proven winner in DotA 1 and is considered by many as one of the best support players of all time? AA has been a top notch support since like 2007.
Only problem is Hvost is best friends with the sponsor, so it's almost a for sure thing he's never going to get removed.
You're so wrong. If having AA was toxic then removing him was the best option. It doesn't matter one bit how good he is, and no one will deny that he was amazing. But if there's internal conflict, it's never worth it.
And if it was Hvost the only one who had a problem with him? Who do you remove then? You realize that today it just proves to me that it was Hvost who had a problem with AA. The fact that he publicly called out Ppy and Kky kinda seals the deal for me.
Or he is trolling your ass because he thinks its funny. This is Na'Vi we are talking about.
Maybe Na'Vi removes no one and they just play again next year. You do know that it is possible to not change the line up and professional sports teams do it all the time.
Dude, are you serious?
Hvost is the single reason why Dendi and Puppy had to resort to fountain hooking. Puppy told Hvost to go aggressive tri-lane to avoid Tongfu's aggressive tri-lane, disregards advice, and puts Na'vi at a massive disadvantage at the start. It is in Puppy's own interview regarding the fountain hook situation and why they did it. If you think you are such a badass that you don't have to listen to your Captain (who is by far the BEST captain in the world outside of s4) you are a fucking toxic jackass.
Your reply quite literally had nothing to do with what he said. You either replied to the wrong person, or you're that guy that replies to people to try and "prove his point" without even reading what they said...because your reply makes zero sense in the context of what you quoted.
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
100%.
Xboct was the best carry at TI3.
Statistically the best carries at TI3 were Loda and Burning, but okay.
I don't think his Xboct is crap, but lets be real here. He wasn't the best carry at TI3 by really any measure.
As far as him being the "weak link", that's from people who don't understand Dota. Xboct's play style fits Na'vi perfectly, and you couldn't take your standard 4-protect-1 carry and put them on Nav'i...it wouldn't work.
It is a problem for Na'vi though when Hvost is playing too aggressive and gets constantly picked, which happened alot even at this TI when he was playing way better than he did last year.
On August 13 2013 01:58 Comeh wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:56 superstartran wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:53 Comeh wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:50 superstartran wrote: [quote]
Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass. There were multiple times where Hvost got caught with his pants down against Orange and Tongfu, and really it almost cost them the game had they not bailed him out big time.
Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead.
[quote]
Natures Prophet has been viable literally forever since the inception of DotA 1 competitive play simply because of teleport.
LoH was removed because he wanted to take a step back / retire from dota / Na'Vi.
AA was removed because (speculation) of behavioral / chemistry issues.
Neither of those changes were a mistake.
XBOCT is also one of the top performing carries on LAN, typically, and was one of the (IMO) top3 carry players in TI3. He's a good player.
AA getting removed is a big mistake, especially when finding a carry player is a hell of alot easier than an experienced and quality player of AA's caliber. AA was considered the best support in the world back in his VP days with Vigoss, and won multiple big titles in Dota 1.
LOH didn't take a step back or retire. He ended up joining Empire. I suspect that Hvost pulled the same bullshit last year after they lost.
Having a toxic environment is sometimes a lot worse than having a good environment with "mediocre" players - teams fall apart because of toxic environments.
And how many games has Empire played lately? LoH isn't taking competitive gaming very seriously lately.
Who would you rather remove? The guy that is considered by many the weakest link on the team, or the guy who is a proven winner in DotA 1 and is considered by many as one of the best support players of all time? AA has been a top notch support since like 2007.
Only problem is Hvost is best friends with the sponsor, so it's almost a for sure thing he's never going to get removed.
You're so wrong. If having AA was toxic then removing him was the best option. It doesn't matter one bit how good he is, and no one will deny that he was amazing. But if there's internal conflict, it's never worth it.
And if it was Hvost the only one who had a problem with him? Who do you remove then? You realize that today it just proves to me that it was Hvost who had a problem with AA. The fact that he publicly called out Ppy and Kky kinda seals the deal for me.
Or he is trolling your ass because he thinks its funny. This is Na'Vi we are talking about.
Maybe Na'Vi removes no one and they just play again next year. You do know that it is possible to not change the line up and professional sports teams do it all the time.
Dude, are you serious?
Hvost is the single reason why Dendi and Puppy had to resort to fountain hooking. Puppy told Hvost to go aggressive tri-lane to avoid Tongfu's aggressive tri-lane, disregards advice, and puts Na'vi at a massive disadvantage at the start. It is in Puppy's own interview regarding the fountain hook situation and why they did it. If you think you are such a badass that you don't have to listen to your Captain (who is by far the BEST captain in the world outside of s4) you are a fucking toxic jackass.
Your reply quite literally had nothing to do with what he said. You either replied to the wrong person, or you're that guy that replies to people to try and "prove his point" without even reading what they said...because your reply makes zero sense in the context of what you quoted.
He's trying to brush off Hvost's egotistical attitude (which is obviously way too big) as trolling. My reply is that Hvost isn't trolling, he's a known jackass.
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
100%.
Xboct was the best carry at TI3.
Statistically the best carries at TI3 were Loda and Burning, but okay.
I don't think his Xboct is crap, but lets be real here. He wasn't the best carry at TI3 by really any measure.
As far as him being the "weak link", that's from people who don't understand Dota. Xboct's play style fits Na'vi perfectly, and you couldn't take your standard 4-protect-1 carry and put them on Nav'i...it wouldn't work.
It is a problem for Na'vi though when Hvost is playing too aggressive and gets constantly picked, which happened alot even at this TI when he was playing way better than he did last year.
On August 13 2013 01:58 Comeh wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:56 superstartran wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:53 Comeh wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:50 superstartran wrote: [quote]
Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass. There were multiple times where Hvost got caught with his pants down against Orange and Tongfu, and really it almost cost them the game had they not bailed him out big time.
Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead.
[quote]
Natures Prophet has been viable literally forever since the inception of DotA 1 competitive play simply because of teleport.
LoH was removed because he wanted to take a step back / retire from dota / Na'Vi.
AA was removed because (speculation) of behavioral / chemistry issues.
Neither of those changes were a mistake.
XBOCT is also one of the top performing carries on LAN, typically, and was one of the (IMO) top3 carry players in TI3. He's a good player.
AA getting removed is a big mistake, especially when finding a carry player is a hell of alot easier than an experienced and quality player of AA's caliber. AA was considered the best support in the world back in his VP days with Vigoss, and won multiple big titles in Dota 1.
LOH didn't take a step back or retire. He ended up joining Empire. I suspect that Hvost pulled the same bullshit last year after they lost.
Having a toxic environment is sometimes a lot worse than having a good environment with "mediocre" players - teams fall apart because of toxic environments.
And how many games has Empire played lately? LoH isn't taking competitive gaming very seriously lately.
Who would you rather remove? The guy that is considered by many the weakest link on the team, or the guy who is a proven winner in DotA 1 and is considered by many as one of the best support players of all time? AA has been a top notch support since like 2007.
Only problem is Hvost is best friends with the sponsor, so it's almost a for sure thing he's never going to get removed.
You're so wrong. If having AA was toxic then removing him was the best option. It doesn't matter one bit how good he is, and no one will deny that he was amazing. But if there's internal conflict, it's never worth it.
And if it was Hvost the only one who had a problem with him? Who do you remove then? You realize that today it just proves to me that it was Hvost who had a problem with AA. The fact that he publicly called out Ppy and Kky kinda seals the deal for me.
Or he is trolling your ass because he thinks its funny. This is Na'Vi we are talking about.
Maybe Na'Vi removes no one and they just play again next year. You do know that it is possible to not change the line up and professional sports teams do it all the time.
Dude, are you serious?
Hvost is the single reason why Dendi and Puppy had to resort to fountain hooking. Puppy told Hvost to go aggressive tri-lane to avoid Tongfu's aggressive tri-lane, disregards advice, and puts Na'vi at a massive disadvantage at the start. It is in Puppy's own interview regarding the fountain hook situation and why they did it. If you think you are such a badass that you don't have to listen to your Captain (who is by far the BEST captain in the world outside of s4) you are a fucking toxic jackass.
Your reply quite literally had nothing to do with what he said. You either replied to the wrong person, or you're that guy that replies to people to try and "prove his point" without even reading what they said...because your reply makes zero sense in the context of what you quoted.
he's been consistently posting a lot of stuff he has no clue about mostly to rage about xboct. it's best to just ignore.
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
100%.
Xboct was the best carry at TI3.
Statistically the best carries at TI3 were Loda and Burning, but okay.
I don't think his Xboct is crap, but lets be real here. He wasn't the best carry at TI3 by really any measure.
As far as him being the "weak link", that's from people who don't understand Dota. Xboct's play style fits Na'vi perfectly, and you couldn't take your standard 4-protect-1 carry and put them on Nav'i...it wouldn't work.
It is a problem for Na'vi though when Hvost is playing too aggressive and gets constantly picked, which happened alot even at this TI when he was playing way better than he did last year.
On August 13 2013 01:58 Comeh wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:56 superstartran wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:53 Comeh wrote: [quote] LoH was removed because he wanted to take a step back / retire from dota / Na'Vi.
AA was removed because (speculation) of behavioral / chemistry issues.
Neither of those changes were a mistake.
XBOCT is also one of the top performing carries on LAN, typically, and was one of the (IMO) top3 carry players in TI3. He's a good player.
AA getting removed is a big mistake, especially when finding a carry player is a hell of alot easier than an experienced and quality player of AA's caliber. AA was considered the best support in the world back in his VP days with Vigoss, and won multiple big titles in Dota 1.
LOH didn't take a step back or retire. He ended up joining Empire. I suspect that Hvost pulled the same bullshit last year after they lost.
Having a toxic environment is sometimes a lot worse than having a good environment with "mediocre" players - teams fall apart because of toxic environments.
And how many games has Empire played lately? LoH isn't taking competitive gaming very seriously lately.
Who would you rather remove? The guy that is considered by many the weakest link on the team, or the guy who is a proven winner in DotA 1 and is considered by many as one of the best support players of all time? AA has been a top notch support since like 2007.
Only problem is Hvost is best friends with the sponsor, so it's almost a for sure thing he's never going to get removed.
You're so wrong. If having AA was toxic then removing him was the best option. It doesn't matter one bit how good he is, and no one will deny that he was amazing. But if there's internal conflict, it's never worth it.
And if it was Hvost the only one who had a problem with him? Who do you remove then? You realize that today it just proves to me that it was Hvost who had a problem with AA. The fact that he publicly called out Ppy and Kky kinda seals the deal for me.
Or he is trolling your ass because he thinks its funny. This is Na'Vi we are talking about.
Maybe Na'Vi removes no one and they just play again next year. You do know that it is possible to not change the line up and professional sports teams do it all the time.
Dude, are you serious?
Hvost is the single reason why Dendi and Puppy had to resort to fountain hooking. Puppy told Hvost to go aggressive tri-lane to avoid Tongfu's aggressive tri-lane, disregards advice, and puts Na'vi at a massive disadvantage at the start. It is in Puppy's own interview regarding the fountain hook situation and why they did it. If you think you are such a badass that you don't have to listen to your Captain (who is by far the BEST captain in the world outside of s4) you are a fucking toxic jackass.
Your reply quite literally had nothing to do with what he said. You either replied to the wrong person, or you're that guy that replies to people to try and "prove his point" without even reading what they said...because your reply makes zero sense in the context of what you quoted.
he's been consistently posting a lot of stuff he has no clue about mostly to rage about xboct. it's best to just ignore.
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
100%.
Xboct was the best carry at TI3.
Statistically the best carries at TI3 were Loda and Burning, but okay.
I don't think his Xboct is crap, but lets be real here. He wasn't the best carry at TI3 by really any measure.
As far as him being the "weak link", that's from people who don't understand Dota. Xboct's play style fits Na'vi perfectly, and you couldn't take your standard 4-protect-1 carry and put them on Nav'i...it wouldn't work.
It is a problem for Na'vi though when Hvost is playing too aggressive and gets constantly picked, which happened alot even at this TI when he was playing way better than he did last year.
On August 13 2013 01:58 Comeh wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:56 superstartran wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:53 Comeh wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:50 superstartran wrote: [quote]
Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass. There were multiple times where Hvost got caught with his pants down against Orange and Tongfu, and really it almost cost them the game had they not bailed him out big time.
Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead.
[quote]
Natures Prophet has been viable literally forever since the inception of DotA 1 competitive play simply because of teleport.
LoH was removed because he wanted to take a step back / retire from dota / Na'Vi.
AA was removed because (speculation) of behavioral / chemistry issues.
Neither of those changes were a mistake.
XBOCT is also one of the top performing carries on LAN, typically, and was one of the (IMO) top3 carry players in TI3. He's a good player.
AA getting removed is a big mistake, especially when finding a carry player is a hell of alot easier than an experienced and quality player of AA's caliber. AA was considered the best support in the world back in his VP days with Vigoss, and won multiple big titles in Dota 1.
LOH didn't take a step back or retire. He ended up joining Empire. I suspect that Hvost pulled the same bullshit last year after they lost.
Having a toxic environment is sometimes a lot worse than having a good environment with "mediocre" players - teams fall apart because of toxic environments.
And how many games has Empire played lately? LoH isn't taking competitive gaming very seriously lately.
Who would you rather remove? The guy that is considered by many the weakest link on the team, or the guy who is a proven winner in DotA 1 and is considered by many as one of the best support players of all time? AA has been a top notch support since like 2007.
Only problem is Hvost is best friends with the sponsor, so it's almost a for sure thing he's never going to get removed.
You're so wrong. If having AA was toxic then removing him was the best option. It doesn't matter one bit how good he is, and no one will deny that he was amazing. But if there's internal conflict, it's never worth it.
And if it was Hvost the only one who had a problem with him? Who do you remove then? You realize that today it just proves to me that it was Hvost who had a problem with AA. The fact that he publicly called out Ppy and Kky kinda seals the deal for me.
Or he is trolling your ass because he thinks its funny. This is Na'Vi we are talking about.
Maybe Na'Vi removes no one and they just play again next year. You do know that it is possible to not change the line up and professional sports teams do it all the time.
Dude, are you serious?
Hvost is the single reason why Dendi and Puppy had to resort to fountain hooking. Puppy told Hvost to go aggressive tri-lane to avoid Tongfu's aggressive tri-lane, disregards advice, and puts Na'vi at a massive disadvantage at the start. It is in Puppy's own interview regarding the fountain hook situation and why they did it. If you think you are such a badass that you don't have to listen to your Captain (who is by far the BEST captain in the world outside of s4) you are a fucking toxic jackass.
Your reply quite literally had nothing to do with what he said. You either replied to the wrong person, or you're that guy that replies to people to try and "prove his point" without even reading what they said...because your reply makes zero sense in the context of what you quoted.
superstartran likes to argue and inform people of how things really are, regardless to what he is responding too. Sometimes I am not sure if he is aware he is being trolled.
Once again, I will need to see more than a single tweet form Hvost before I am convinced of anything.
On August 13 2013 02:06 Navi_fan wrote: I am a huge Navi fan and i also watch the Russian streams so i know what is going on (more or less).
Kuroky There are currently 3 problems with Kuroky. a) Language barrier. They have to speak in English to communicate. (Only Puppey speaks very good English). Who doesn't think this is huge just look (NTH + EE -> [A] + EGM) b) Puppey is a 4 pos player. Kuroky should play like a 5 (hard support) but he plays like a 3.5 (support with a lot of farm). This has obvious complications (map vision). Navi most of the time plays in the dark. Kuroky farms his dagger /force staff /arcane instead of buying wards/sentries. There are more complications with a team not having a true 5 pos player (good dota players understand it). c) Kuroky was captain in Mouz. He wanted to have a lot of influence in draft and ingame decisions. Two captains in a team is more a problem than a help. f.e. Kuroky calling gg in the first game is really really bad. a) He is not the captain b) Teammates didn't want to gg yet c) He is last person (with funnik) who should call gg cause he has the least experience with TI level games.
Kuroky replacement is not a surprise. He will be replaced by a Russian speaking player. Most likely (my opinion) it will be Vanskor.
Kky shouldn't have called the GG on that, but it was very obvious that game was over. Na'vi had no way to comeback into that game because of no carry nor did they have any kind of big aoe ult to 5 man wipe Alliance, and Alliance simply had a far stronger line-up.
It doesn't matter if the game is over or not. Kuroky is not allowed to call gg. a) Navi is the best team for comebacks (vs Tongfu g3, vs Orange g3 etc) b) Sometimes top teams don't gg even if it is 100% a lost game. They are talking what went wrong, trying to collect additional info for the next game, trying to show opponents that they don't surrender easy (psychological effects).
On August 13 2013 01:14 FuzzyJAM wrote: [quote] 100%.
Xboct was the best carry at TI3.
Statistically the best carries at TI3 were Loda and Burning, but okay.
I don't think his Xboct is crap, but lets be real here. He wasn't the best carry at TI3 by really any measure.
As far as him being the "weak link", that's from people who don't understand Dota. Xboct's play style fits Na'vi perfectly, and you couldn't take your standard 4-protect-1 carry and put them on Nav'i...it wouldn't work.
It is a problem for Na'vi though when Hvost is playing too aggressive and gets constantly picked, which happened alot even at this TI when he was playing way better than he did last year.
On August 13 2013 01:58 Comeh wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:56 superstartran wrote: [quote]
AA getting removed is a big mistake, especially when finding a carry player is a hell of alot easier than an experienced and quality player of AA's caliber. AA was considered the best support in the world back in his VP days with Vigoss, and won multiple big titles in Dota 1.
LOH didn't take a step back or retire. He ended up joining Empire. I suspect that Hvost pulled the same bullshit last year after they lost.
Having a toxic environment is sometimes a lot worse than having a good environment with "mediocre" players - teams fall apart because of toxic environments.
And how many games has Empire played lately? LoH isn't taking competitive gaming very seriously lately.
Who would you rather remove? The guy that is considered by many the weakest link on the team, or the guy who is a proven winner in DotA 1 and is considered by many as one of the best support players of all time? AA has been a top notch support since like 2007.
Only problem is Hvost is best friends with the sponsor, so it's almost a for sure thing he's never going to get removed.
You're so wrong. If having AA was toxic then removing him was the best option. It doesn't matter one bit how good he is, and no one will deny that he was amazing. But if there's internal conflict, it's never worth it.
And if it was Hvost the only one who had a problem with him? Who do you remove then? You realize that today it just proves to me that it was Hvost who had a problem with AA. The fact that he publicly called out Ppy and Kky kinda seals the deal for me.
Or he is trolling your ass because he thinks its funny. This is Na'Vi we are talking about.
Maybe Na'Vi removes no one and they just play again next year. You do know that it is possible to not change the line up and professional sports teams do it all the time.
Dude, are you serious?
Hvost is the single reason why Dendi and Puppy had to resort to fountain hooking. Puppy told Hvost to go aggressive tri-lane to avoid Tongfu's aggressive tri-lane, disregards advice, and puts Na'vi at a massive disadvantage at the start. It is in Puppy's own interview regarding the fountain hook situation and why they did it. If you think you are such a badass that you don't have to listen to your Captain (who is by far the BEST captain in the world outside of s4) you are a fucking toxic jackass.
Your reply quite literally had nothing to do with what he said. You either replied to the wrong person, or you're that guy that replies to people to try and "prove his point" without even reading what they said...because your reply makes zero sense in the context of what you quoted.
he's been consistently posting a lot of stuff he has no clue about mostly to rage about xboct. it's best to just ignore.
The fact that you think this has anything to do with the quality of your posts about xboct shows I made the right call in ignoring a dialogue with you. Ppy and Xboct disagreed about lanes and Ppy was right, what a revelation. I bet they've disagreed a lot, more than we will even know. Your posts are still worthless speculation about Na'Vi team dynamic and your assessment of Xboct skill and play is naive at best.
On August 13 2013 02:06 Navi_fan wrote: I am a huge Navi fan and i also watch the Russian streams so i know what is going on (more or less).
Kuroky There are currently 3 problems with Kuroky. a) Language barrier. They have to speak in English to communicate. (Only Puppey speaks very good English). Who doesn't think this is huge just look (NTH + EE -> [A] + EGM) b) Puppey is a 4 pos player. Kuroky should play like a 5 (hard support) but he plays like a 3.5 (support with a lot of farm). This has obvious complications (map vision). Navi most of the time plays in the dark. Kuroky farms his dagger /force staff /arcane instead of buying wards/sentries. There are more complications with a team not having a true 5 pos player (good dota players understand it). c) Kuroky was captain in Mouz. He wanted to have a lot of influence in draft and ingame decisions. Two captains in a team is more a problem than a help. f.e. Kuroky calling gg in the first game is really really bad. a) He is not the captain b) Teammates didn't want to gg yet c) He is last person (with funnik) who should call gg cause he has the least experience with TI level games.
Kuroky replacement is not a surprise. He will be replaced by a Russian speaking player. Most likely (my opinion) it will be Vanskor.
Kky shouldn't have called the GG on that, but it was very obvious that game was over. Na'vi had no way to comeback into that game because of no carry nor did they have any kind of big aoe ult to 5 man wipe Alliance, and Alliance simply had a far stronger line-up.
It doesn't matter if the game is over or not. Kuroky is not allowed to call gg. a) Navi is the best team for comebacks (vs Tongfu g3, vs Orange g3 etc) b) Sometimes top teams don't gg even if it is 100% a lost game. They are talking what went wrong, trying to collect additional info for the next game, trying to show opponents that they don't surrender easy (psychological effects).
In the games they came back, they had a better late game carry in a 1v1 situation. Against Orange g3, Mushi was their only damage dealer, so all they needed were BKBs to avoid the OD ult and pure dmg. Again, Na'vi had no hard carry, and no game changing ult like RP or Blackhole. The game was over.
Statistically the best carries at TI3 were Loda and Burning, but okay.
I don't think his Xboct is crap, but lets be real here. He wasn't the best carry at TI3 by really any measure.
As far as him being the "weak link", that's from people who don't understand Dota. Xboct's play style fits Na'vi perfectly, and you couldn't take your standard 4-protect-1 carry and put them on Nav'i...it wouldn't work.
It is a problem for Na'vi though when Hvost is playing too aggressive and gets constantly picked, which happened alot even at this TI when he was playing way better than he did last year.
On August 13 2013 01:58 Comeh wrote: [quote] Having a toxic environment is sometimes a lot worse than having a good environment with "mediocre" players - teams fall apart because of toxic environments.
And how many games has Empire played lately? LoH isn't taking competitive gaming very seriously lately.
Who would you rather remove? The guy that is considered by many the weakest link on the team, or the guy who is a proven winner in DotA 1 and is considered by many as one of the best support players of all time? AA has been a top notch support since like 2007.
Only problem is Hvost is best friends with the sponsor, so it's almost a for sure thing he's never going to get removed.
You're so wrong. If having AA was toxic then removing him was the best option. It doesn't matter one bit how good he is, and no one will deny that he was amazing. But if there's internal conflict, it's never worth it.
And if it was Hvost the only one who had a problem with him? Who do you remove then? You realize that today it just proves to me that it was Hvost who had a problem with AA. The fact that he publicly called out Ppy and Kky kinda seals the deal for me.
Or he is trolling your ass because he thinks its funny. This is Na'Vi we are talking about.
Maybe Na'Vi removes no one and they just play again next year. You do know that it is possible to not change the line up and professional sports teams do it all the time.
Dude, are you serious?
Hvost is the single reason why Dendi and Puppy had to resort to fountain hooking. Puppy told Hvost to go aggressive tri-lane to avoid Tongfu's aggressive tri-lane, disregards advice, and puts Na'vi at a massive disadvantage at the start. It is in Puppy's own interview regarding the fountain hook situation and why they did it. If you think you are such a badass that you don't have to listen to your Captain (who is by far the BEST captain in the world outside of s4) you are a fucking toxic jackass.
Your reply quite literally had nothing to do with what he said. You either replied to the wrong person, or you're that guy that replies to people to try and "prove his point" without even reading what they said...because your reply makes zero sense in the context of what you quoted.
he's been consistently posting a lot of stuff he has no clue about mostly to rage about xboct. it's best to just ignore.
The fact that you think this has anything to do with the quality of your posts about xboct shows I made the right call in ignoring a dialogue with you. Ppy and Xboct disagreed about lanes and Ppy was right, what a revelation. I bet they've disagreed a lot, more than we will even know. Your posts are still worthless speculation about Na'Vi team dynamic and your assessment of Xboct skill and play is naive at best.
You don't disagree with a call made by your captain who is a better strategic mind then you. You do as he says.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Z7QSvYD.jpg)
<--- master troll
