I am a huge Navi fan and i also watch the Russian streams so i know what is going on (more or less).
Kuroky There are currently 3 problems with Kuroky. a) Language barrier. They have to speak in English to communicate. (Only Puppey speaks very good English). Who doesn't think this is huge just look (NTH + EE -> [A] + EGM) b) Puppey is a 4 pos player. Kuroky should play like a 5 (hard support) but he plays like a 3.5 (support with a lot of farm). This has obvious complications (map vision). Navi most of the time plays in the dark. Kuroky farms his dagger /force staff /arcane instead of buying wards/sentries. There are more complications with a team not having a true 5 pos player (good dota players understand it). c) Kuroky was captain in Mouz. He wanted to have a lot of influence in draft and ingame decisions. Two captains in a team is more a problem than a help. f.e. Kuroky calling gg in the first game is really really bad. a) He is not the captain b) Teammates didn't want to gg yet c) He is last person (with funnik) who should call gg cause he has the least experience with TI level games.
Kuroky replacement is not a surprise. He will be replaced by a Russian speaking player. Most likely (my opinion) it will be Vanskor.
On August 13 2013 02:06 Navi_fan wrote: I am a huge Navi fan and i also watch the Russian streams so i know what is going on (more or less).
Kuroky There are currently 3 problems with Kuroky. a) Language barrier. They have to speak in English to communicate. (Only Puppey speaks very good English). Who doesn't think this is huge just look (NTH + EE -> [A] + EGM) b) Puppey is a 4 pos player. Kuroky should play like a 5 (hard support) but he plays like a 3.5 (support with a lot of farm). This has obvious complications (map vision). Navi most of the time plays in the dark. Kuroky farms his dagger /force staff /arcane instead of buying wards/sentries. There are more complications with a team not having a true 5 pos player (good dota players understand it). c) Kuroky was captain in Mouz. He wanted to have a lot of influence in draft and ingame decisions. Two captains in a team is more a problem than a help. f.e. Kuroky calling gg in the first game is really really bad. a) He is not the captain b) Teammates didn't want to gg yet c) He is last person (with funnik) who should call gg cause he has the least experience with TI level games.
Kuroky replacement is not a surprise. He will be replaced by a Russian speaking player. Most likely (my opinion) it will be Vanskor.
Kky shouldn't have called the GG on that, but it was very obvious that game was over. Na'vi had no way to comeback into that game because of no carry nor did they have any kind of big aoe ult to 5 man wipe Alliance, and Alliance simply had a far stronger line-up.
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
100%.
Xboct was the best carry at TI3.
Statistically the best carries at TI3 were Loda and Burning, but okay.
I don't think his Xboct is crap, but lets be real here. He wasn't the best carry at TI3 by really any measure.
As far as him being the "weak link", that's from people who don't understand Dota. Xboct's play style fits Na'vi perfectly, and you couldn't take your standard 4-protect-1 carry and put them on Nav'i...it wouldn't work.
It is a problem for Na'vi though when Hvost is playing too aggressive and gets constantly picked, which happened alot even at this TI when he was playing way better than he did last year.
On August 13 2013 01:58 Comeh wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:56 superstartran wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:53 Comeh wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:50 superstartran wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass. There were multiple times where Hvost got caught with his pants down against Orange and Tongfu, and really it almost cost them the game had they not bailed him out big time.
Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead.
On August 13 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:36 BisuDagger wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:29 Plansix wrote: [quote] There is a ton of BS stuff in Dota 2, its why we play it. NP split push of glory is one of them. Puck/lifestealer is also pretty BS. Timber saw and the endless AOEs is pretty dumb. KotL and PL are pretty fucked up. Hell, KotL is pretty fucked up. Who gives out free mana?
The point of the game is to have a number of ways to win. If they don't, then the game becomes stale and no one takes risks.
I absolutely agree with this. In Brood War there was tons of BS abilities/units in the right situations. That ability for those tense moments and wow factors made the game so edge of your seat to watch. That is why I really enjoyed watching TI3. It has those elements.
If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him.
Natures Prophet has been viable literally forever since the inception of DotA 1 competitive play simply because of teleport.
LoH was removed because he wanted to take a step back / retire from dota / Na'Vi.
AA was removed because (speculation) of behavioral / chemistry issues.
Neither of those changes were a mistake.
XBOCT is also one of the top performing carries on LAN, typically, and was one of the (IMO) top3 carry players in TI3. He's a good player.
AA getting removed is a big mistake, especially when finding a carry player is a hell of alot easier than an experienced and quality player of AA's caliber. AA was considered the best support in the world back in his VP days with Vigoss, and won multiple big titles in Dota 1.
LOH didn't take a step back or retire. He ended up joining Empire. I suspect that Hvost pulled the same bullshit last year after they lost.
Having a toxic environment is sometimes a lot worse than having a good environment with "mediocre" players - teams fall apart because of toxic environments.
And how many games has Empire played lately? LoH isn't taking competitive gaming very seriously lately.
Who would you rather remove? The guy that is considered by many the weakest link on the team, or the guy who is a proven winner in DotA 1 and is considered by many as one of the best support players of all time? AA has been a top notch support since like 2007.
Only problem is Hvost is best friends with the sponsor, so it's almost a for sure thing he's never going to get removed.
You're so wrong. If having AA was toxic then removing him was the best option. It doesn't matter one bit how good he is, and no one will deny that he was amazing. But if there's internal conflict, it's never worth it.
And if it was Hvost the only one who had a problem with him? Who do you remove then? You realize that today it just proves to me that it was Hvost who had a problem with AA. The fact that he publicly called out Ppy and Kky kinda seals the deal for me.
Or he is trolling your ass because he thinks its funny. This is Na'Vi we are talking about.
Maybe Na'Vi removes no one and they just play again next year. You do know that it is possible to not change the line up and professional sports teams do it all the time.
I like how everyone is talking like Kuroky already got replaced, or somehow had a crap International. Kuroky played brilliantly this International. Other than the GG issue he was more than fine.
I still feel like Xboct is trolling us all and we're having a six page discussion about it, as if we're the management of Na'vi.
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
100%.
Xboct was the best carry at TI3.
Statistically the best carries at TI3 were Loda and Burning, but okay.
I don't think his Xboct is crap, but lets be real here. He wasn't the best carry at TI3 by really any measure.
As far as him being the "weak link", that's from people who don't understand Dota. Xboct's play style fits Na'vi perfectly, and you couldn't take your standard 4-protect-1 carry and put them on Nav'i...it wouldn't work.
It is a problem for Na'vi though when Hvost is playing too aggressive and gets constantly picked, which happened alot even at this TI when he was playing way better than he did last year.
On August 13 2013 01:58 Comeh wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:56 superstartran wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:53 Comeh wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:50 superstartran wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass. There were multiple times where Hvost got caught with his pants down against Orange and Tongfu, and really it almost cost them the game had they not bailed him out big time.
Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead.
On August 13 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:36 BisuDagger wrote: [quote] I absolutely agree with this. In Brood War there was tons of BS abilities/units in the right situations. That ability for those tense moments and wow factors made the game so edge of your seat to watch. That is why I really enjoyed watching TI3. It has those elements.
If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him.
Natures Prophet has been viable literally forever since the inception of DotA 1 competitive play simply because of teleport.
LoH was removed because he wanted to take a step back / retire from dota / Na'Vi.
AA was removed because (speculation) of behavioral / chemistry issues.
Neither of those changes were a mistake.
XBOCT is also one of the top performing carries on LAN, typically, and was one of the (IMO) top3 carry players in TI3. He's a good player.
AA getting removed is a big mistake, especially when finding a carry player is a hell of alot easier than an experienced and quality player of AA's caliber. AA was considered the best support in the world back in his VP days with Vigoss, and won multiple big titles in Dota 1.
LOH didn't take a step back or retire. He ended up joining Empire. I suspect that Hvost pulled the same bullshit last year after they lost.
Having a toxic environment is sometimes a lot worse than having a good environment with "mediocre" players - teams fall apart because of toxic environments.
And how many games has Empire played lately? LoH isn't taking competitive gaming very seriously lately.
Who would you rather remove? The guy that is considered by many the weakest link on the team, or the guy who is a proven winner in DotA 1 and is considered by many as one of the best support players of all time? AA has been a top notch support since like 2007.
Only problem is Hvost is best friends with the sponsor, so it's almost a for sure thing he's never going to get removed.
You're so wrong. If having AA was toxic then removing him was the best option. It doesn't matter one bit how good he is, and no one will deny that he was amazing. But if there's internal conflict, it's never worth it.
And if it was Hvost the only one who had a problem with him? Who do you remove then? You realize that today it just proves to me that it was Hvost who had a problem with AA. The fact that he publicly called out Ppy and Kky kinda seals the deal for me.
Or he is trolling your ass because he thinks its funny. This is Na'Vi we are talking about.
Maybe Na'Vi removes no one and they just play again next year. You do know that it is possible to not change the line up and professional sports teams do it all the time.
Dude, are you serious?
Hvost is the single reason why Dendi and Puppy had to resort to fountain hooking. Puppy told Hvost to go aggressive tri-lane to avoid Tongfu's aggressive tri-lane, disregards advice, and puts Na'vi at a massive disadvantage at the start. It is in Puppy's own interview regarding the fountain hook situation and why they did it. If you think you are such a badass that you don't have to listen to your Captain (who is by far the BEST captain in the world outside of s4) you are a fucking toxic jackass.
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
100%.
Xboct was the best carry at TI3.
Statistically the best carries at TI3 were Loda and Burning, but okay.
I don't think his Xboct is crap, but lets be real here. He wasn't the best carry at TI3 by really any measure.
As far as him being the "weak link", that's from people who don't understand Dota. Xboct's play style fits Na'vi perfectly, and you couldn't take your standard 4-protect-1 carry and put them on Nav'i...it wouldn't work.
It is a problem for Na'vi though when Hvost is playing too aggressive and gets constantly picked, which happened alot even at this TI when he was playing way better than he did last year.
On August 13 2013 01:58 Comeh wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:56 superstartran wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:53 Comeh wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:50 superstartran wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass. There were multiple times where Hvost got caught with his pants down against Orange and Tongfu, and really it almost cost them the game had they not bailed him out big time.
Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead.
On August 13 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote: [quote] If anything, I want to see them buff stuff on other heroes deal with these issues. I want PA's dart to cancel teleports and slark to be able to run down a natures prophet and lock him down. The key to making the game better is to get more heroes in the line ups in new ways. Rather than nerfing, they should happy NP is viable and get new heroes in to counter him.
Natures Prophet has been viable literally forever since the inception of DotA 1 competitive play simply because of teleport.
LoH was removed because he wanted to take a step back / retire from dota / Na'Vi.
AA was removed because (speculation) of behavioral / chemistry issues.
Neither of those changes were a mistake.
XBOCT is also one of the top performing carries on LAN, typically, and was one of the (IMO) top3 carry players in TI3. He's a good player.
AA getting removed is a big mistake, especially when finding a carry player is a hell of alot easier than an experienced and quality player of AA's caliber. AA was considered the best support in the world back in his VP days with Vigoss, and won multiple big titles in Dota 1.
LOH didn't take a step back or retire. He ended up joining Empire. I suspect that Hvost pulled the same bullshit last year after they lost.
Having a toxic environment is sometimes a lot worse than having a good environment with "mediocre" players - teams fall apart because of toxic environments.
And how many games has Empire played lately? LoH isn't taking competitive gaming very seriously lately.
Who would you rather remove? The guy that is considered by many the weakest link on the team, or the guy who is a proven winner in DotA 1 and is considered by many as one of the best support players of all time? AA has been a top notch support since like 2007.
Only problem is Hvost is best friends with the sponsor, so it's almost a for sure thing he's never going to get removed.
You're so wrong. If having AA was toxic then removing him was the best option. It doesn't matter one bit how good he is, and no one will deny that he was amazing. But if there's internal conflict, it's never worth it.
And if it was Hvost the only one who had a problem with him? Who do you remove then? You realize that today it just proves to me that it was Hvost who had a problem with AA. The fact that he publicly called out Ppy and Kky kinda seals the deal for me.
Or he is trolling your ass because he thinks its funny. This is Na'Vi we are talking about.
Maybe Na'Vi removes no one and they just play again next year. You do know that it is possible to not change the line up and professional sports teams do it all the time.
Dude, are you serious?
Hvost is the single reason why Dendi and Puppy had to resort to fountain hooking. Puppy told Hvost to go aggressive tri-lane to avoid Tongfu's aggressive tri-lane, disregards advice, and puts Na'vi at a massive disadvantage at the start. It is in Puppy's own interview regarding the fountain hook situation and why they did it. If you think you are such a badass that you don't have to listen to your Captain (who is by far the BEST captain in the world outside of s4) you are a fucking toxic jackass.
Your reply quite literally had nothing to do with what he said. You either replied to the wrong person, or you're that guy that replies to people to try and "prove his point" without even reading what they said...because your reply makes zero sense in the context of what you quoted.
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
100%.
Xboct was the best carry at TI3.
Statistically the best carries at TI3 were Loda and Burning, but okay.
I don't think his Xboct is crap, but lets be real here. He wasn't the best carry at TI3 by really any measure.
As far as him being the "weak link", that's from people who don't understand Dota. Xboct's play style fits Na'vi perfectly, and you couldn't take your standard 4-protect-1 carry and put them on Nav'i...it wouldn't work.
It is a problem for Na'vi though when Hvost is playing too aggressive and gets constantly picked, which happened alot even at this TI when he was playing way better than he did last year.
On August 13 2013 01:58 Comeh wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:56 superstartran wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:53 Comeh wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:50 superstartran wrote: [quote]
Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass. There were multiple times where Hvost got caught with his pants down against Orange and Tongfu, and really it almost cost them the game had they not bailed him out big time.
Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead.
[quote]
Natures Prophet has been viable literally forever since the inception of DotA 1 competitive play simply because of teleport.
LoH was removed because he wanted to take a step back / retire from dota / Na'Vi.
AA was removed because (speculation) of behavioral / chemistry issues.
Neither of those changes were a mistake.
XBOCT is also one of the top performing carries on LAN, typically, and was one of the (IMO) top3 carry players in TI3. He's a good player.
AA getting removed is a big mistake, especially when finding a carry player is a hell of alot easier than an experienced and quality player of AA's caliber. AA was considered the best support in the world back in his VP days with Vigoss, and won multiple big titles in Dota 1.
LOH didn't take a step back or retire. He ended up joining Empire. I suspect that Hvost pulled the same bullshit last year after they lost.
Having a toxic environment is sometimes a lot worse than having a good environment with "mediocre" players - teams fall apart because of toxic environments.
And how many games has Empire played lately? LoH isn't taking competitive gaming very seriously lately.
Who would you rather remove? The guy that is considered by many the weakest link on the team, or the guy who is a proven winner in DotA 1 and is considered by many as one of the best support players of all time? AA has been a top notch support since like 2007.
Only problem is Hvost is best friends with the sponsor, so it's almost a for sure thing he's never going to get removed.
You're so wrong. If having AA was toxic then removing him was the best option. It doesn't matter one bit how good he is, and no one will deny that he was amazing. But if there's internal conflict, it's never worth it.
And if it was Hvost the only one who had a problem with him? Who do you remove then? You realize that today it just proves to me that it was Hvost who had a problem with AA. The fact that he publicly called out Ppy and Kky kinda seals the deal for me.
Or he is trolling your ass because he thinks its funny. This is Na'Vi we are talking about.
Maybe Na'Vi removes no one and they just play again next year. You do know that it is possible to not change the line up and professional sports teams do it all the time.
Dude, are you serious?
Hvost is the single reason why Dendi and Puppy had to resort to fountain hooking. Puppy told Hvost to go aggressive tri-lane to avoid Tongfu's aggressive tri-lane, disregards advice, and puts Na'vi at a massive disadvantage at the start. It is in Puppy's own interview regarding the fountain hook situation and why they did it. If you think you are such a badass that you don't have to listen to your Captain (who is by far the BEST captain in the world outside of s4) you are a fucking toxic jackass.
Your reply quite literally had nothing to do with what he said. You either replied to the wrong person, or you're that guy that replies to people to try and "prove his point" without even reading what they said...because your reply makes zero sense in the context of what you quoted.
He's trying to brush off Hvost's egotistical attitude (which is obviously way too big) as trolling. My reply is that Hvost isn't trolling, he's a known jackass.
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
100%.
Xboct was the best carry at TI3.
Statistically the best carries at TI3 were Loda and Burning, but okay.
I don't think his Xboct is crap, but lets be real here. He wasn't the best carry at TI3 by really any measure.
As far as him being the "weak link", that's from people who don't understand Dota. Xboct's play style fits Na'vi perfectly, and you couldn't take your standard 4-protect-1 carry and put them on Nav'i...it wouldn't work.
It is a problem for Na'vi though when Hvost is playing too aggressive and gets constantly picked, which happened alot even at this TI when he was playing way better than he did last year.
On August 13 2013 01:58 Comeh wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:56 superstartran wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:53 Comeh wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:50 superstartran wrote: [quote]
Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass. There were multiple times where Hvost got caught with his pants down against Orange and Tongfu, and really it almost cost them the game had they not bailed him out big time.
Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead.
[quote]
Natures Prophet has been viable literally forever since the inception of DotA 1 competitive play simply because of teleport.
LoH was removed because he wanted to take a step back / retire from dota / Na'Vi.
AA was removed because (speculation) of behavioral / chemistry issues.
Neither of those changes were a mistake.
XBOCT is also one of the top performing carries on LAN, typically, and was one of the (IMO) top3 carry players in TI3. He's a good player.
AA getting removed is a big mistake, especially when finding a carry player is a hell of alot easier than an experienced and quality player of AA's caliber. AA was considered the best support in the world back in his VP days with Vigoss, and won multiple big titles in Dota 1.
LOH didn't take a step back or retire. He ended up joining Empire. I suspect that Hvost pulled the same bullshit last year after they lost.
Having a toxic environment is sometimes a lot worse than having a good environment with "mediocre" players - teams fall apart because of toxic environments.
And how many games has Empire played lately? LoH isn't taking competitive gaming very seriously lately.
Who would you rather remove? The guy that is considered by many the weakest link on the team, or the guy who is a proven winner in DotA 1 and is considered by many as one of the best support players of all time? AA has been a top notch support since like 2007.
Only problem is Hvost is best friends with the sponsor, so it's almost a for sure thing he's never going to get removed.
You're so wrong. If having AA was toxic then removing him was the best option. It doesn't matter one bit how good he is, and no one will deny that he was amazing. But if there's internal conflict, it's never worth it.
And if it was Hvost the only one who had a problem with him? Who do you remove then? You realize that today it just proves to me that it was Hvost who had a problem with AA. The fact that he publicly called out Ppy and Kky kinda seals the deal for me.
Or he is trolling your ass because he thinks its funny. This is Na'Vi we are talking about.
Maybe Na'Vi removes no one and they just play again next year. You do know that it is possible to not change the line up and professional sports teams do it all the time.
Dude, are you serious?
Hvost is the single reason why Dendi and Puppy had to resort to fountain hooking. Puppy told Hvost to go aggressive tri-lane to avoid Tongfu's aggressive tri-lane, disregards advice, and puts Na'vi at a massive disadvantage at the start. It is in Puppy's own interview regarding the fountain hook situation and why they did it. If you think you are such a badass that you don't have to listen to your Captain (who is by far the BEST captain in the world outside of s4) you are a fucking toxic jackass.
Your reply quite literally had nothing to do with what he said. You either replied to the wrong person, or you're that guy that replies to people to try and "prove his point" without even reading what they said...because your reply makes zero sense in the context of what you quoted.
he's been consistently posting a lot of stuff he has no clue about mostly to rage about xboct. it's best to just ignore.
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
100%.
Xboct was the best carry at TI3.
Statistically the best carries at TI3 were Loda and Burning, but okay.
I don't think his Xboct is crap, but lets be real here. He wasn't the best carry at TI3 by really any measure.
As far as him being the "weak link", that's from people who don't understand Dota. Xboct's play style fits Na'vi perfectly, and you couldn't take your standard 4-protect-1 carry and put them on Nav'i...it wouldn't work.
It is a problem for Na'vi though when Hvost is playing too aggressive and gets constantly picked, which happened alot even at this TI when he was playing way better than he did last year.
On August 13 2013 01:58 Comeh wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:56 superstartran wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:53 Comeh wrote: [quote] LoH was removed because he wanted to take a step back / retire from dota / Na'Vi.
AA was removed because (speculation) of behavioral / chemistry issues.
Neither of those changes were a mistake.
XBOCT is also one of the top performing carries on LAN, typically, and was one of the (IMO) top3 carry players in TI3. He's a good player.
AA getting removed is a big mistake, especially when finding a carry player is a hell of alot easier than an experienced and quality player of AA's caliber. AA was considered the best support in the world back in his VP days with Vigoss, and won multiple big titles in Dota 1.
LOH didn't take a step back or retire. He ended up joining Empire. I suspect that Hvost pulled the same bullshit last year after they lost.
Having a toxic environment is sometimes a lot worse than having a good environment with "mediocre" players - teams fall apart because of toxic environments.
And how many games has Empire played lately? LoH isn't taking competitive gaming very seriously lately.
Who would you rather remove? The guy that is considered by many the weakest link on the team, or the guy who is a proven winner in DotA 1 and is considered by many as one of the best support players of all time? AA has been a top notch support since like 2007.
Only problem is Hvost is best friends with the sponsor, so it's almost a for sure thing he's never going to get removed.
You're so wrong. If having AA was toxic then removing him was the best option. It doesn't matter one bit how good he is, and no one will deny that he was amazing. But if there's internal conflict, it's never worth it.
And if it was Hvost the only one who had a problem with him? Who do you remove then? You realize that today it just proves to me that it was Hvost who had a problem with AA. The fact that he publicly called out Ppy and Kky kinda seals the deal for me.
Or he is trolling your ass because he thinks its funny. This is Na'Vi we are talking about.
Maybe Na'Vi removes no one and they just play again next year. You do know that it is possible to not change the line up and professional sports teams do it all the time.
Dude, are you serious?
Hvost is the single reason why Dendi and Puppy had to resort to fountain hooking. Puppy told Hvost to go aggressive tri-lane to avoid Tongfu's aggressive tri-lane, disregards advice, and puts Na'vi at a massive disadvantage at the start. It is in Puppy's own interview regarding the fountain hook situation and why they did it. If you think you are such a badass that you don't have to listen to your Captain (who is by far the BEST captain in the world outside of s4) you are a fucking toxic jackass.
Your reply quite literally had nothing to do with what he said. You either replied to the wrong person, or you're that guy that replies to people to try and "prove his point" without even reading what they said...because your reply makes zero sense in the context of what you quoted.
he's been consistently posting a lot of stuff he has no clue about mostly to rage about xboct. it's best to just ignore.
On August 13 2013 01:11 crms wrote: you can immediately tell how bad someones comprehension of dota is when they call xboct bad, easily replaceable, or na'vi's worst player.
funny how words like throw become so common people just parrot each other. Xboct is god tier player, especially on LAN in high stress games.
100%.
Xboct was the best carry at TI3.
Statistically the best carries at TI3 were Loda and Burning, but okay.
I don't think his Xboct is crap, but lets be real here. He wasn't the best carry at TI3 by really any measure.
As far as him being the "weak link", that's from people who don't understand Dota. Xboct's play style fits Na'vi perfectly, and you couldn't take your standard 4-protect-1 carry and put them on Nav'i...it wouldn't work.
It is a problem for Na'vi though when Hvost is playing too aggressive and gets constantly picked, which happened alot even at this TI when he was playing way better than he did last year.
On August 13 2013 01:58 Comeh wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:56 superstartran wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:53 Comeh wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:50 superstartran wrote: [quote]
Hvost is still easily the weakest player on his team when LOH and AA were on that team. And Hvost also does throw very hard, just that he played well enough in the other games to compensate in the games he threw. For him not to listen to Puppey's calls (the captain of the team) is a pretty big deal. Don't care how good you are, if you don't listen to a call, you're probably being a jackass. There were multiple times where Hvost got caught with his pants down against Orange and Tongfu, and really it almost cost them the game had they not bailed him out big time.
Like I said, it was a massive mistake to remove LOH and AA. If LOH and AA were still on this team and performing up to par, they probably win this easily. LOH is probably one of the few offlaners that can go toe to toe with Bulldog and actually come out ahead.
[quote]
Natures Prophet has been viable literally forever since the inception of DotA 1 competitive play simply because of teleport.
LoH was removed because he wanted to take a step back / retire from dota / Na'Vi.
AA was removed because (speculation) of behavioral / chemistry issues.
Neither of those changes were a mistake.
XBOCT is also one of the top performing carries on LAN, typically, and was one of the (IMO) top3 carry players in TI3. He's a good player.
AA getting removed is a big mistake, especially when finding a carry player is a hell of alot easier than an experienced and quality player of AA's caliber. AA was considered the best support in the world back in his VP days with Vigoss, and won multiple big titles in Dota 1.
LOH didn't take a step back or retire. He ended up joining Empire. I suspect that Hvost pulled the same bullshit last year after they lost.
Having a toxic environment is sometimes a lot worse than having a good environment with "mediocre" players - teams fall apart because of toxic environments.
And how many games has Empire played lately? LoH isn't taking competitive gaming very seriously lately.
Who would you rather remove? The guy that is considered by many the weakest link on the team, or the guy who is a proven winner in DotA 1 and is considered by many as one of the best support players of all time? AA has been a top notch support since like 2007.
Only problem is Hvost is best friends with the sponsor, so it's almost a for sure thing he's never going to get removed.
You're so wrong. If having AA was toxic then removing him was the best option. It doesn't matter one bit how good he is, and no one will deny that he was amazing. But if there's internal conflict, it's never worth it.
And if it was Hvost the only one who had a problem with him? Who do you remove then? You realize that today it just proves to me that it was Hvost who had a problem with AA. The fact that he publicly called out Ppy and Kky kinda seals the deal for me.
Or he is trolling your ass because he thinks its funny. This is Na'Vi we are talking about.
Maybe Na'Vi removes no one and they just play again next year. You do know that it is possible to not change the line up and professional sports teams do it all the time.
Dude, are you serious?
Hvost is the single reason why Dendi and Puppy had to resort to fountain hooking. Puppy told Hvost to go aggressive tri-lane to avoid Tongfu's aggressive tri-lane, disregards advice, and puts Na'vi at a massive disadvantage at the start. It is in Puppy's own interview regarding the fountain hook situation and why they did it. If you think you are such a badass that you don't have to listen to your Captain (who is by far the BEST captain in the world outside of s4) you are a fucking toxic jackass.
Your reply quite literally had nothing to do with what he said. You either replied to the wrong person, or you're that guy that replies to people to try and "prove his point" without even reading what they said...because your reply makes zero sense in the context of what you quoted.
superstartran likes to argue and inform people of how things really are, regardless to what he is responding too. Sometimes I am not sure if he is aware he is being trolled.
Once again, I will need to see more than a single tweet form Hvost before I am convinced of anything.
On August 13 2013 02:06 Navi_fan wrote: I am a huge Navi fan and i also watch the Russian streams so i know what is going on (more or less).
Kuroky There are currently 3 problems with Kuroky. a) Language barrier. They have to speak in English to communicate. (Only Puppey speaks very good English). Who doesn't think this is huge just look (NTH + EE -> [A] + EGM) b) Puppey is a 4 pos player. Kuroky should play like a 5 (hard support) but he plays like a 3.5 (support with a lot of farm). This has obvious complications (map vision). Navi most of the time plays in the dark. Kuroky farms his dagger /force staff /arcane instead of buying wards/sentries. There are more complications with a team not having a true 5 pos player (good dota players understand it). c) Kuroky was captain in Mouz. He wanted to have a lot of influence in draft and ingame decisions. Two captains in a team is more a problem than a help. f.e. Kuroky calling gg in the first game is really really bad. a) He is not the captain b) Teammates didn't want to gg yet c) He is last person (with funnik) who should call gg cause he has the least experience with TI level games.
Kuroky replacement is not a surprise. He will be replaced by a Russian speaking player. Most likely (my opinion) it will be Vanskor.
Kky shouldn't have called the GG on that, but it was very obvious that game was over. Na'vi had no way to comeback into that game because of no carry nor did they have any kind of big aoe ult to 5 man wipe Alliance, and Alliance simply had a far stronger line-up.
It doesn't matter if the game is over or not. Kuroky is not allowed to call gg. a) Navi is the best team for comebacks (vs Tongfu g3, vs Orange g3 etc) b) Sometimes top teams don't gg even if it is 100% a lost game. They are talking what went wrong, trying to collect additional info for the next game, trying to show opponents that they don't surrender easy (psychological effects).
On August 13 2013 01:14 FuzzyJAM wrote: [quote] 100%.
Xboct was the best carry at TI3.
Statistically the best carries at TI3 were Loda and Burning, but okay.
I don't think his Xboct is crap, but lets be real here. He wasn't the best carry at TI3 by really any measure.
As far as him being the "weak link", that's from people who don't understand Dota. Xboct's play style fits Na'vi perfectly, and you couldn't take your standard 4-protect-1 carry and put them on Nav'i...it wouldn't work.
It is a problem for Na'vi though when Hvost is playing too aggressive and gets constantly picked, which happened alot even at this TI when he was playing way better than he did last year.
On August 13 2013 01:58 Comeh wrote:
On August 13 2013 01:56 superstartran wrote: [quote]
AA getting removed is a big mistake, especially when finding a carry player is a hell of alot easier than an experienced and quality player of AA's caliber. AA was considered the best support in the world back in his VP days with Vigoss, and won multiple big titles in Dota 1.
LOH didn't take a step back or retire. He ended up joining Empire. I suspect that Hvost pulled the same bullshit last year after they lost.
Having a toxic environment is sometimes a lot worse than having a good environment with "mediocre" players - teams fall apart because of toxic environments.
And how many games has Empire played lately? LoH isn't taking competitive gaming very seriously lately.
Who would you rather remove? The guy that is considered by many the weakest link on the team, or the guy who is a proven winner in DotA 1 and is considered by many as one of the best support players of all time? AA has been a top notch support since like 2007.
Only problem is Hvost is best friends with the sponsor, so it's almost a for sure thing he's never going to get removed.
You're so wrong. If having AA was toxic then removing him was the best option. It doesn't matter one bit how good he is, and no one will deny that he was amazing. But if there's internal conflict, it's never worth it.
And if it was Hvost the only one who had a problem with him? Who do you remove then? You realize that today it just proves to me that it was Hvost who had a problem with AA. The fact that he publicly called out Ppy and Kky kinda seals the deal for me.
Or he is trolling your ass because he thinks its funny. This is Na'Vi we are talking about.
Maybe Na'Vi removes no one and they just play again next year. You do know that it is possible to not change the line up and professional sports teams do it all the time.
Dude, are you serious?
Hvost is the single reason why Dendi and Puppy had to resort to fountain hooking. Puppy told Hvost to go aggressive tri-lane to avoid Tongfu's aggressive tri-lane, disregards advice, and puts Na'vi at a massive disadvantage at the start. It is in Puppy's own interview regarding the fountain hook situation and why they did it. If you think you are such a badass that you don't have to listen to your Captain (who is by far the BEST captain in the world outside of s4) you are a fucking toxic jackass.
Your reply quite literally had nothing to do with what he said. You either replied to the wrong person, or you're that guy that replies to people to try and "prove his point" without even reading what they said...because your reply makes zero sense in the context of what you quoted.
he's been consistently posting a lot of stuff he has no clue about mostly to rage about xboct. it's best to just ignore.
The fact that you think this has anything to do with the quality of your posts about xboct shows I made the right call in ignoring a dialogue with you. Ppy and Xboct disagreed about lanes and Ppy was right, what a revelation. I bet they've disagreed a lot, more than we will even know. Your posts are still worthless speculation about Na'Vi team dynamic and your assessment of Xboct skill and play is naive at best.
On August 13 2013 02:06 Navi_fan wrote: I am a huge Navi fan and i also watch the Russian streams so i know what is going on (more or less).
Kuroky There are currently 3 problems with Kuroky. a) Language barrier. They have to speak in English to communicate. (Only Puppey speaks very good English). Who doesn't think this is huge just look (NTH + EE -> [A] + EGM) b) Puppey is a 4 pos player. Kuroky should play like a 5 (hard support) but he plays like a 3.5 (support with a lot of farm). This has obvious complications (map vision). Navi most of the time plays in the dark. Kuroky farms his dagger /force staff /arcane instead of buying wards/sentries. There are more complications with a team not having a true 5 pos player (good dota players understand it). c) Kuroky was captain in Mouz. He wanted to have a lot of influence in draft and ingame decisions. Two captains in a team is more a problem than a help. f.e. Kuroky calling gg in the first game is really really bad. a) He is not the captain b) Teammates didn't want to gg yet c) He is last person (with funnik) who should call gg cause he has the least experience with TI level games.
Kuroky replacement is not a surprise. He will be replaced by a Russian speaking player. Most likely (my opinion) it will be Vanskor.
Kky shouldn't have called the GG on that, but it was very obvious that game was over. Na'vi had no way to comeback into that game because of no carry nor did they have any kind of big aoe ult to 5 man wipe Alliance, and Alliance simply had a far stronger line-up.
It doesn't matter if the game is over or not. Kuroky is not allowed to call gg. a) Navi is the best team for comebacks (vs Tongfu g3, vs Orange g3 etc) b) Sometimes top teams don't gg even if it is 100% a lost game. They are talking what went wrong, trying to collect additional info for the next game, trying to show opponents that they don't surrender easy (psychological effects).
In the games they came back, they had a better late game carry in a 1v1 situation. Against Orange g3, Mushi was their only damage dealer, so all they needed were BKBs to avoid the OD ult and pure dmg. Again, Na'vi had no hard carry, and no game changing ult like RP or Blackhole. The game was over.
Statistically the best carries at TI3 were Loda and Burning, but okay.
I don't think his Xboct is crap, but lets be real here. He wasn't the best carry at TI3 by really any measure.
As far as him being the "weak link", that's from people who don't understand Dota. Xboct's play style fits Na'vi perfectly, and you couldn't take your standard 4-protect-1 carry and put them on Nav'i...it wouldn't work.
It is a problem for Na'vi though when Hvost is playing too aggressive and gets constantly picked, which happened alot even at this TI when he was playing way better than he did last year.
On August 13 2013 01:58 Comeh wrote: [quote] Having a toxic environment is sometimes a lot worse than having a good environment with "mediocre" players - teams fall apart because of toxic environments.
And how many games has Empire played lately? LoH isn't taking competitive gaming very seriously lately.
Who would you rather remove? The guy that is considered by many the weakest link on the team, or the guy who is a proven winner in DotA 1 and is considered by many as one of the best support players of all time? AA has been a top notch support since like 2007.
Only problem is Hvost is best friends with the sponsor, so it's almost a for sure thing he's never going to get removed.
You're so wrong. If having AA was toxic then removing him was the best option. It doesn't matter one bit how good he is, and no one will deny that he was amazing. But if there's internal conflict, it's never worth it.
And if it was Hvost the only one who had a problem with him? Who do you remove then? You realize that today it just proves to me that it was Hvost who had a problem with AA. The fact that he publicly called out Ppy and Kky kinda seals the deal for me.
Or he is trolling your ass because he thinks its funny. This is Na'Vi we are talking about.
Maybe Na'Vi removes no one and they just play again next year. You do know that it is possible to not change the line up and professional sports teams do it all the time.
Dude, are you serious?
Hvost is the single reason why Dendi and Puppy had to resort to fountain hooking. Puppy told Hvost to go aggressive tri-lane to avoid Tongfu's aggressive tri-lane, disregards advice, and puts Na'vi at a massive disadvantage at the start. It is in Puppy's own interview regarding the fountain hook situation and why they did it. If you think you are such a badass that you don't have to listen to your Captain (who is by far the BEST captain in the world outside of s4) you are a fucking toxic jackass.
Your reply quite literally had nothing to do with what he said. You either replied to the wrong person, or you're that guy that replies to people to try and "prove his point" without even reading what they said...because your reply makes zero sense in the context of what you quoted.
he's been consistently posting a lot of stuff he has no clue about mostly to rage about xboct. it's best to just ignore.
The fact that you think this has anything to do with the quality of your posts about xboct shows I made the right call in ignoring a dialogue with you. Ppy and Xboct disagreed about lanes and Ppy was right, what a revelation. I bet they've disagreed a lot, more than we will even know. Your posts are still worthless speculation about Na'Vi team dynamic and your assessment of Xboct skill and play is naive at best.
You don't disagree with a call made by your captain who is a better strategic mind then you. You do as he says.
EPT
