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Why not Treat APM like weight classes? - Page 5

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NubainMuscle
Profile Joined June 2005
South Africa423 Posts
March 11 2013 21:10 GMT
#81
I like the concept, in theory, but it is too easy to manipulate APM and it is too variable (APM varies significantly depending on race, build order, strategy, etc.). The APM range would have to be expanded for each league with a firm ceiling. For example, a sub-100 APM league where a player's APM never, at any points, exceeds 100, but that would be difficult to control and at any time a player could spam or stop spamming to significantly alter their average.
http://sc.gosugamers.net/bilder/members/9801.jpg
HardlyNever
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States1258 Posts
March 11 2013 21:10 GMT
#82
How in the world would you control this?

While you can do some funny things with your weight before/after weigh-ins and actual fights, you generally can't get from one weight class to another easily (there are checks for this in most organizations).

However, you could definitely tank your apm in any given test or trial, then play way faster in the actual game. Would you immediately end the game the second a player crests the apm cap for his class?

This could be abused worse than those league-restricted tournaments are.
Out there, the Kid learned to fend for himself. Learned to build. Learned to break.
jinorazi
Profile Joined October 2004
Korea (South)4948 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-11 22:18:47
March 11 2013 21:26 GMT
#83
apm fluctuation has more to do with playstyle than skill imo.

some players, like me, try to have low apm (low redundant apm %) on purpose and there are others vice versa.

apm follows the skill output , skill does not follow apm (apm itself does not determine who is better/worse but rather how they're distributed, isnt there a master player using xbox controller???). apm restriction does nothing more than hampering a competent player for the sake of non competent.


its useless restriction honestly.

there are plenty of other sports that does not take "weight class" into equation, one sided view i think the OP is.


i think this is the lazy american mentality. hear me out, popular UMS(custom) maps in NA are stuff like desert strike, nexus wars where you choose unit composition and thats that, units do the work on their own. on the other hand the popular UMS maps in KR are same thing, composition based BUT you micro those spawned units. interesting phenomenon i say that makes me say americans like it lazy mode.

so, apm cap = i can compete.
age: 84 | location: california | sex: 잘함
R3DT1D3
Profile Joined January 2012
285 Posts
March 11 2013 21:40 GMT
#84
This would only work if the races had relatively similar APM ouptut at different levels. This is clearly not the case if you look at any racial statistics.
Pulimuli
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Sweden2766 Posts
March 11 2013 22:11 GMT
#85
Having "APM Classes" is pretty useless

there were D ranked players in BW with 400+ apm

the classes should be regarded by skill,like they are now - Code A,Code S etc
dpurple
Profile Joined November 2010
Turkmenistan592 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-11 22:31:51
March 11 2013 22:31 GMT
#86
Not to be critical but Ive had much better threads than this being shut down by first glance from a mod.
AnachronisticAnarchy
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States2957 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-11 22:33:10
March 11 2013 22:32 GMT
#87
I don't like this idea because:

1. APM is extremely dissociated with skill in SC2. I've heard the argument that speed is important, but APM =/= speed either. Some people can be horrendously inefficient with their APM, others can be efficient but have bad multitasking and thus not feel the full results of their APM.

2. Different races have different APM. The APM disparity between races is sometimes pretty impressive, even at the same skill level. By capping APM in a tournament, you could very easily force certain divisions to be dominated to an unfair degree by a single race.

3. Not enough players at the higher levels. While I cannot say that we don't have enough players to form stuff like a semi-pro league, that separation of players is done in such a way that actually reflects their skill. We don't have a big enough scene to just arbitrarily divide our pros into APM divisions that have very little basis on their actual skill.

4. Freaks of nature. If we make this idea a reality, we're going to have to look forward to standouts in all the divisions, whether they be a Merz fighting among top Koreans (which is unfair for Merz) or an Elfi fighting among baddies (which is unfair for everyone). Not exactly fun, especially in the latter scenario.

I could come up with way more, but this post is already getting pretty bloated.
"How are you?" "I am fine, because it is not normal to scream in pain."
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
March 11 2013 22:33 GMT
#88
Weight classes exist because weight effectively gives a BIG advantage in most fighting sports.
Useless APM don't give you anything.
epidGoaty
Profile Joined December 2010
United States219 Posts
March 11 2013 22:36 GMT
#89
Didn't even read to make this reply...

I can fake APM, can't fake my weight
ePGoaty - Manager, Team Epidemic - www.team-epidemic.com
snakeeyez
Profile Joined May 2011
United States1231 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-11 22:40:24
March 11 2013 22:37 GMT
#90
Well APM does matter its silly to say it doesnt. Its not a good consistent indicator though and its certainly not as important as the comparison to say fighting and weight classes. So its not a good idea really and its better to just put people in divisions by skill like say blizzard does it right now. APM is just one small factor not anywhere near a deciding one.
Also you would need to make the argument that the system Blizzard uses now to rank people is not working well enough. That would be a hard argument to make its very accurate.
FatkiddsLag
Profile Joined May 2010
United States413 Posts
March 11 2013 22:40 GMT
#91
what happens when you just play at a low apm to weigh in and then play for real during a tournament?
playa
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1284 Posts
March 11 2013 22:44 GMT
#92
APM doesn't matter! The top pros would be just as good if they started playing with 100 apm. Captain oblivious strikes again. Obviously it helps. If there is a clown that has wrong answers for all of the problems, but he's sure of himself and likes to click a lot, then yeah, he's going to end up "losing faster." But for anyone with any idea how to play, if they're able to execute what they want faster, then, *gasp*, they're going to end up getting better results.

There's only so much you can accomplish with 100 apm, 200 apm, 300 apm, etc. I can't believe anyone would debate the concept of having an adv with more apm. Jesus... how's bronze league. The only debate is how much of an adv.
Aveng3r
Profile Joined February 2012
United States2411 Posts
March 11 2013 22:44 GMT
#93
I guess in concept it makes sense, but people spam apm, others dont, different races have different apm requirements...
dont like the idea.
I carve marble busts of assassinated world leaders - PM for a quote
dpurple
Profile Joined November 2010
Turkmenistan592 Posts
March 11 2013 22:47 GMT
#94
On March 12 2013 07:44 playa wrote:
APM doesn't matter! The top pros would be just as good if they started playing with 100 apm. Captain oblivious strikes again. Obviously it helps. If there is a clown that has wrong answers for all of the problems, but he's sure of himself and likes to click a lot, then yeah, he's going to end up "losing faster." But for anyone with any idea how to play, if they're able to execute what they want faster, then, *gasp*, they're going to end up getting better results.

There's only so much you can accomplish with 100 apm, 200 apm, 300 apm, etc. I can't believe anyone would debate the concept of having an adv with more apm. Jesus... how's bronze league. The only debate is how much of an adv.


Ofc more apm is better. But thats not what the thread is about.
playa
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1284 Posts
March 11 2013 22:48 GMT
#95
On March 12 2013 07:47 dpurple wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 12 2013 07:44 playa wrote:
APM doesn't matter! The top pros would be just as good if they started playing with 100 apm. Captain oblivious strikes again. Obviously it helps. If there is a clown that has wrong answers for all of the problems, but he's sure of himself and likes to click a lot, then yeah, he's going to end up "losing faster." But for anyone with any idea how to play, if they're able to execute what they want faster, then, *gasp*, they're going to end up getting better results.

There's only so much you can accomplish with 100 apm, 200 apm, 300 apm, etc. I can't believe anyone would debate the concept of having an adv with more apm. Jesus... how's bronze league. The only debate is how much of an adv.


Ofc more apm is better. But thats not what the thread is about.


I'm just saying, I saw some people saying APM doesn't matter. Should be banned.
MannerMan
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
371 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-11 22:50:26
March 11 2013 22:48 GMT
#96
Nobody would watch it, it would be like creating a basketball league for people under six feet tall.

edit: or perhaps more accurately, people who can't dunk
IndyO
Profile Joined June 2012
392 Posts
March 11 2013 22:50 GMT
#97
It's a cool novelty concept, too complicated for reality but still kind of interesting. I feel like any talk about APM gets negative backlash straight away though o.o, surprised at alot of the responses in this thread.
playa
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1284 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-11 22:51:48
March 11 2013 22:50 GMT
#98
On March 12 2013 07:48 MannerMan wrote:
Nobody would watch it, it would be like creating a basketball league for people under six feet tall.


I'd watch basketball if it was broken up into height categories. Sounds interesting.

As for your edit, no I wouldn't watch women's basketball now that Jackie Stiles is retired. No dunking, just not the same.
TechNoTrance
Profile Joined May 2012
Canada1007 Posts
March 11 2013 22:52 GMT
#99
I play at a lower APM than most of my opponents. Cool now I get to smurf all of the lower apm tournaments.
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.
Eggi
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
478 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-11 22:54:22
March 11 2013 22:54 GMT
#100
i guess efli is the -50APM Champion
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