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On March 12 2013 03:59 ffadicted wrote:
APM has 0 to do with almost anything related to starcraft skill, especially the new meaningless APM
I hate to break it to you but apm has a lot to do with skill in regards to mechanics and unfortunately for your comment apm is more meaningful right now then it has ever been. Not only does it track actions on a real 60 second minute but it also counts camera keys as far as I know.
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A more realistic idea is to do age classes.
Age tends to effect a player in terms of style and speed (older players [i.e. nestea] play a bit slower but smarter). Age also does not tend to say if a player is good or not.
It is not like a 28 year old is bad because of his age (which is outside of his control) just like a 120 pound fighter might be an amazing fighter in the ring.
The real question is if it makes sense to break the age groups up. In my opinion, at this time, the vast majority of players fall into the same age groups and the groups would be so small (only a few years apart) that it would be weird. If players spanned a much wider group of ages (say age 13-50 had hundreds of thousands at every age and pro gamers among all ages) then it would make sense.
The idea is to break the game up based on the strain of the game. In fighting a 500 pound person vs a 200 pound person just is a bad match of strain and takes skill out of the equation. In sc2, the equivalent would be matching a 38 year old and a 15 year old that both have played the game for 5 years? (notice the ? mark) (the real question is does a persons physical attributes [age, size, speed] require special bracketing similar to how it does in the fighting world).
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I don't like this idea. In SC2, APM doesn't have a lot to do with skill. I have beaten players that have 300+ my APM, and I have seen pros with lesser APM beat pros with High APM.
The biggest problem I see with is how APM can change or manipulated. Couldn't People just play at 60APM to get qualified to the lower divisions and then play at 300 in tourney vs all the people with 60 APM? How can you keep someones APM capped and monitor it ? Players' APM can change based on injuries, condition, etc. This can happen in a matter of few days. I played games on ladder where my APM was 70, then next I had 140 APM. It is common that some days you will play higher or lower your average APM, and to use that and be placed in certain division, doesn't seem right. APM can change in matter of seconds, days. Weight on the other hand you have to workout, burn fat etc and it takes time, days and weeks. Unlike APM, you can't fake your weight
"Those with speed steamrolls every other type of player." This is most certainly not true.
Overall trying to compare weight and APM is bad idea imo.
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On March 12 2013 03:41 USvBleakill wrote:
APM has nothing to do with skill.
Not entirely true unless you're aiming at APM ''spamming''.
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I don't like this idea. It could be good maybe for ladder within a league (If you're 50 apm in silver, you get matched with other 50 apm silver players), but serious competition, forget it.
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Canada11477 Posts
Well first you would have to fix APM to mean Actions per Minute and not whatever it has been for the last 3 years...
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No, just no. I don't think you actually understand how APM works.
Go play a 5 minute game, then a 35 minute game, look at average APM.
Go look at a players APM in a 100 game spread.
APM changes.
What do you do if, at the 40 APM class, one person accidently shoots to 60 APM in just ONE intense engagement, because his adrenline is flowing? Is the game stopped, is he dqed?
APM isn't weight.
this is a really dumb discussion
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A friend of mine was rank 60 in grandmasters on NA for a long while with ~80 APM. Good decisions equal good wins. Having the speed to pull it off well is gravy
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On March 12 2013 08:33 Falling wrote:
Well first you would have to fix APM to mean Actions per Minute and not whatever it has been for the last 3 years...
They did that as of last patch
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It's way easier to gain APM than to gain weight. I don't see how someone could stay at 40 apm if they played a lot unless they were specifically trying to stay at sub 40 apm
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On March 12 2013 08:43 sUgArMaNiAc wrote:
A friend of mine was rank 60 in grandmasters on NA for a long while with ~80 APM. Good decisions equal good wins. Having the speed to pull it off well is gravy
But but that doesn't make sense! Why aren't my 300apm bronze friends at GM yet?!?
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His friend probably has korean blood, does your friend? Otherwise there is no hope
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Because unlike weight, you can fake APM. Also, APM =/= Skill, its how many actions you do per minute, a more effective stat would be EPM, but that doesn't even go into the other 90% of whats important e.g. strategy. Overall, worst idea i've heard all week.
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They're weight category in boxing because a 70kg dude could very well get physically hurt by a similary talented 100kg heavy weight.
How does that relate to e-Sports ?
There's no risk.
Besides, APM is a very weak approximation of fingers agility, and doesn't measure accuracy nor reaction time which are the 2 main pillars of skill.
A man instantly dodging storm with a single or two clicks is much more efficient that a retard freeclicking 5 secs too late and in the wrong direction.
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On March 12 2013 06:03 fourColo wrote:
How about playtime divisions? There's folks that have demanding jobs, but would still like to play competitively. They'll almost never be able to compete with anyone who plays ten times more than them though -- even with better practice methods, simple stuff like muscle memory and experience are so important. I think it would be pretty cool for tournaments for people who play < X hours a week or something.
Imagine if playtime had something to do with skill. Now, let's go out on a limb and say that skill has something to do with league... Holy crap! How about tournaments for lower leagues?!?!?
In my opinion, this thread is wasting bandwidth by being open.
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On March 12 2013 08:45 MattBarry wrote:
It's way easier to gain APM than to gain weight. I don't see how someone could stay at 40 apm if they played a lot unless they were specifically trying to stay at sub 40 apm
Would actually be quite funny. Protoss would probably be the best race, since zlot costs so much and can be 1a'd while the opponent would be APM capped and couldn't micro against it 
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Because the majority of pros have high enough APM that it doesn't matter. Here's what would happen: it would be exactly the same as it is now, except some of the top pros who happen to have lower APM would win the slightly lower divisions, and people who suck at the game would win the lowest divisions and nobody would want to watch them play.
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I don't understand the comparison at all. Its like comparing apples to PCs.
Why is APM related to weight class? In your comparison, wouldn't APM be much more similar to speed/finesse of the boxer? I think you should write a thread in a boxing forum about how boxers should not be divided by weight classes but by how fast they are.
To bring the weight class thing into starcraft, we would probably have to put people into classes based on their internet connection quality and computer specs. That way, people with laggy and slow computers can compete with other people with laggy/slow computers.
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APM has only a weak correlation to performance. While weight can directly cause a certain performance in boxing.
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On March 12 2013 09:41 RifleCow wrote:
APM has only a weak correlation to performance. While weight can directly cause a certain performance in boxing.
Pretty much my thoughts. You can do all of the "smart" moves with comparably little APM....
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EPT
