How has this thread been open this long? Everyone busy watching the hots stream? :X Weight correlates directly to performance (i.e. amount of weight lifted). APM does not. I'm pretty sure it's really as simple as that.

Luepert

United States1933 Posts

March 12 2013 00:57 GMT

#123

I don't think I can control my APM. I fluctuate based on mood.

Azelja

Japan762 Posts

March 12 2013 00:58 GMT

#124

This is the most redundant thing I've heard today... It's only 2 AM here but I think this is going to stay the most useless idea that I'm going to hear today. APM classes... Wow, gotta wrap your head around that one xD

Reminds me of that one time, when a friend of mine got kicked out of class because he was "too slow" when asked to pick up some paper from the ground...

SongMeister

United States20 Posts

March 12 2013 01:08 GMT

#125

this idea is so out of the world .. i just dont know if the scene is big enough. who cares about some 40 apm kid champ? Everyone will be watching life tear up his enemies

ffadicted

United States3545 Posts

March 12 2013 01:15 GMT

#126

On March 12 2013 08:10 DanLee wrote:

Show nested quote +

I hate to break it to you but apm has a lot to do with skill in regards to mechanics and unfortunately for your comment apm is more meaningful right now then it has ever been. Not only does it track actions on a real 60 second minute but it also counts camera keys as far as I know.

Regardless of your first argument about apm being relative to skill, no one can deny current APM means d*ck all lol

TheLunatic

309 Posts

March 12 2013 04:17 GMT

#127

This idea sounds fun to me, my viewing would greatly be skewed to the top players at my apm capabilities........could hurt the current pro scene though, because I believe there are many players like me that view to get better and to get new ideas, not simply for fun or to root for one team or the next

alexanderzero

United States659 Posts

March 12 2013 06:00 GMT

#128

How are you supposed to enforce an APM cap? Just stop allowing the player to issue commands until enough time has passed to keep them from going over it? Stupid...

ETisME

12384 Posts

March 12 2013 06:24 GMT

#129

There was once I played against a bronze league for fun.
My keyboard broke and I could only use mouse click.
I used a warp prism dt tactics and won, I had to select the warp button and click the dt and place it to warp a single dt.

I checked the replay and he had apm over 600 moving the zerglings.
I only had 20 apm

Boxing weights limitation is there because weight affects lots of things, how heavy your punches are and how much you can take etc.
Apm doesn't, at least not as significant anyway

IcedBacon

Canada906 Posts

March 12 2013 06:28 GMT

#130

APM definitely does correlate with skill. However it just isn't a definitive measure of who is the better player.

ALPINA

3791 Posts

March 12 2013 07:13 GMT

#131

7 pages on this pointless thread?

okay let me ask you. When you determine player's APM "league" how do you prevent from playing at higher apms in the game?

NarutO

Germany18839 Posts

March 12 2013 07:26 GMT

#132

former G.s)KyO , Julyzerg ... will be a lonely league for them

Olli

Austria24417 Posts

March 12 2013 07:34 GMT

#133

I don't really know if the two are comparable. I could beat a bronze player without using my keyboard, even in a 20 minute macro game probably. Having higher APM isn't necessarily connected with skill.

Also about the tournament idea, how many people would really watch a tournament of say your 40 APM division? I find online competitions with league restrictment like a Diamond or Gold League Cup more than enough. There should be more of these though, I for one had tons of fun playing in the LBNT cups for example.

Toxi78

966 Posts

March 12 2013 07:43 GMT

#134

this is the most stupid thread i've seen on teamliquid in a very long time, it's simply totally dumb.
it is actually so retarded i don't even know what to say.

MysteryMeat1

United States3291 Posts

March 12 2013 07:50 GMT

#135

On March 12 2013 16:26 Type|NarutO wrote:
former G.s)KyO , Julyzerg ... will be a lonely league for them

does he get paid to be champ in a league of 1?

Chairman Ray

United States11903 Posts

March 12 2013 07:57 GMT

#136

so what happens when a player goes over a certain apm? Does he just get disqualified? Does his keyboard stop working temporarily?

ALPINA

3791 Posts

March 12 2013 08:00 GMT

#137

On March 12 2013 16:57 Chairman Ray wrote:
so what happens when a player goes over a certain apm? Does he just get disqualified? Does his keyboard stop working temporarily?

Screen goes blank for 10 seconds.

Ryder.

1117 Posts

March 12 2013 08:03 GMT

#138

The point of weight classes is to separate fighters who have an innate advantage over others. Kind of like how they have men's sports and women's sports. A featherweight will have little to no chance of ever beating a heavyweight, nor is there really anything he can do to put on the weight required to compete vs the heavyweight whilst still staying athletic.

How is APM an innate advantage? I don't think anyone can argue that as you improve your APM will increase (to an extent) so it is hard to argue that high APM is an inherent trait. You also can't argue against the fact that your APM may differ based on things such as race played, strategy used, whether you are tired. Not only that but it is easy for players to artificially inflate or deflate their APM if they really wanted to.

Pretty bad idea IMO and terrible comparison.

Edit:

On March 12 2013 16:43 Toxi78 wrote:
this is the most stupid thread i've seen on teamliquid in a very long time, it's simply totally dumb.
it is actually so retarded i don't even know what to say.

What this guy said

Goj

2 Posts

March 12 2013 08:09 GMT

#139

I think the apm!=skill people miss the point. The reason why weight classes exists is because weight does not equal skill. A lightweight champion is not less skilled than a heavyweight one, even if he would lose every match in direct competition.

And a 300 pound fat guy wouldn't stand a chance against a lightweight champion, just like a 300 apm bronze player wouldn't stand a chance against goody.

But i still think that it wouldn't make any sense in SC2 and i don't think that apm is the right comparison to the weight. apm is more like if you test the punch strength. There is no equation to weight in video games.

Danglars

United States12133 Posts

March 12 2013 08:25 GMT

#140

Under your advice, it would be too easy to game the system, period. The really "close-enough" way to separate skills to play one another are based on match results. We can observe as third person and see that one player plays faster and that offers an advantage in micro or decision making, but that's an observer task. The player with high APM playing the game is facing an opponent seeded because he beats and loses to similar players.

We would have more variety and, I think it would be good for the game as far as international exposure is concerned. Koreans can dominate the high and no-limit divisions because their culture allows the volume of practice needed, and other countries can try and catch up because they can setup small-time scenes with low APM tournaments.

I mean, we can be sure at the time of this posting, the #1 no-APM-limit pro is Korean. But, once you put a limit, everything changes. A guy anywhere in the world can be 40 APM champion by strategy and efficiency --without the volume of practice/traning a no-limit guy needs.

So, is this a good idea?

How are you even close to proving that an APM system would gather more variety? A bunch of fast speed Koreans beating each other, and a bunch of mediocre players trying to improve their APM and only THEN their skill. Trolls in the lowest of the low maximizing cheese builds with absurd APM. They can farm unabated if they issue very precise commands at 50 APM.

What would even be the further point of divisions if you can win 50-50 at a higher spam speed (make no mistake, you can micro spam to defeat any EPM calculation) and get promoted? You want diamond? Just do X build with these kind of mechanics routines!! For a ladder system, it is a terrible idea.

For after-match analysis, it aint so bad. You can rate and compare Koreans with it, and foreigners as well. The possibility exists, but as yet I have not seen a forum frequenter making tiers for APM and declaring who's the best in the top 3 tiers.