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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
Thank god the politicians know what to do though. Rep. James Comer, R-Ky., tweeted condolences: "My thoughts & prayers go out to the students & faculty at Marshall County High School where there has been a tragic school shooting," Comer said. Thoughts and prayers, as usual. Helped so much the last time. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
“Thoughts and prayers” is a fine way to express sympathy in brief. | ||
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IyMoon
United States1249 Posts
On January 24 2018 01:36 LegalLord wrote: Better than exploiting the situation for pushing gun control I guess? “Thoughts and prayers” is a fine way to express sympathy in brief. It's a fine way to do absolutely nothing | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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IyMoon
United States1249 Posts
On January 24 2018 01:41 LegalLord wrote: Expressing sympathy isn’t supposed to do anything. It’s a brief response in the moment. It ends there though, it never goes beyond 'thoughts and prayers' to fix the actual problem Edit: Also, sympathy does not mean shit without action. You're not really sympathetic without at least trying to help. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8281 Posts
On January 24 2018 01:34 m4ini wrote: Three weeks into the new year. https://twitter.com/GovMattBevin/status/955813278877454337 Thank god the politicians know what to do though. Thoughts and prayers, as usual. Helped so much the last time. What do you want them to do tho? Attack random groups of X genetics/religion/race just in case? The Trump way of handling things? If you don't know anything about the situation and you can't do anything personally to help, shutting up or "thoughts and prayers" is exactly what you're suppose to do. If, on the other hand, a spesific reason is cited for this happening and nothing is done X weeks from now, then you have something to whine about. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 24 2018 01:36 LegalLord wrote: Better than exploiting the situation for pushing gun control I guess? “Thoughts and prayers” is a fine way to express sympathy in brief. Remember that time that FDR exploited the bombing of pearl harbor to declare war on Japan? Or that time that all the banks almost failed in 2007 that let the democrats exploit the situation to pass new regulations? My governor is currently exploiting the opioids crisis to file a lawsuit against the people making and marketing opioids. Its terrible, really terrible. So much exploitation of tragic events to push these political agendas designed to “fix prevent further tragities.” | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On January 24 2018 01:43 Excludos wrote: What do you want them to do tho? Attack random groups of X genetics/religion/race just in case? The Trump way of handling things? If you don't know anything about the situation and you can't do anything personally to help, shutting up or "thoughts and prayers" is exactly what you're suppose to do. If, on the other hand, a spesific reason is cited for this happening and nothing is done X weeks from now, then you have something to whine about. they're referring to a persistent pattern of republicans blocking gun control legislation meant to prevent these kinds of attacks. I trust that suffices on its own to explain the situation, but can elaborate if needed. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On January 24 2018 01:43 IyMoon wrote: It ends there though, it never goes beyond 'thoughts and prayers' to fix the actual problem Edit: Also, sympathy does not mean shit without action. You're not really sympathetic without at least trying to help. I really hope you're just blowing off steam here. Expressing sympathy can be honest and intentioned to comfort. Some random blowhard on the internet that doesn't like your future efforts to express compassion (say: you should support gun control if you're truly sympathetic) does not change it. You leave yourself wide open to accusations that you employ tragedies to pursue your favored political agenda by shaming and guilting fellow citizens. Be better. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On January 24 2018 01:46 zlefin wrote: they're referring to a persistent pattern of republicans blocking gun control legislation meant to prevent these kinds of attacks. I trust that suffices on its own to explain the situation, but can elaborate if needed. Talk about Gun Control. Response that said Gun Control measure would've done nothing. Response to the response that a lawfully armed citizen couldn't have stopped anything. Accusations of bad faith all around. End with a few speeches generalizing the situation as something wrong with America. | ||
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IyMoon
United States1249 Posts
On January 24 2018 01:57 Danglars wrote: I really hope you're just blowing off steam here. Expressing sympathy can be honest and intentioned to comfort. Some random blowhard on the internet that doesn't like your future efforts to express compassion (say: you should support gun control if you're truly sympathetic) does not change it. You leave yourself wide open to accusations that you employ tragedies to pursue your favored political agenda by shaming and guilting fellow citizens. Be better. No, if you go 'thoughts and prayers' and leave it there you are not sympathetic. The idea does not have to be gun control, hell people go we should have armed guards at schools to prevent these things( I disagree with this idea but at least its a fucking idea that can be debated). You are not really sympathetic to a problem if you are not trying to help in some way. This applies to my life as well. I don't consider myself really sympathetic to a lot of problems because I don't actually care to help in anyway. Thinking a situation is bad is not being sympathetic edit: maybe I am confusing sympathy with empathy. In which case I think sympathy is useless | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
There's a difference between 'thoughts and prayers' for someone who tripped and broke their hip (an accident) and a mass shooting, where arguably we could take action to reduce further occurrences. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On January 24 2018 02:01 IyMoon wrote: No, if you go 'thoughts and prayers' and leave it there you are not sympathetic. The idea does not have to be gun control, hell people go we should have armed guards at schools to prevent these things( I disagree with this idea but at least its a fucking idea that can be debated). You are not really sympathetic to a problem if you are not trying to help in some way. This applies to my life as well. I don't consider myself really sympathetic to a lot of problems because I don't actually care to help in anyway. Thinking a situation is bad is not being sympathetic Sympathy is a human emotion. You show pity and sorrow with words. You are a very callous and ignorant man to suggest the sympathy is faulty, because you stand in judgment of policy debate afterwards. Maybe they don't make a big show of giving afterwards, or talking about community support systems, or at-risk teen programs ... because their job isn't to prove to you their sympathy is genuine by putting on a public show for the nasty sort of people that have Puritanical urges. | ||
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IyMoon
United States1249 Posts
On January 24 2018 02:16 Danglars wrote: Sympathy is a human emotion. You show pity and sorrow with words. You are a very callous and ignorant man to suggest the sympathy is faulty, because you stand in judgment of policy debate afterwards. Maybe they don't make a big show of giving afterwards, or talking about community support systems, or at-risk teen programs ... because their job isn't to prove to you their sympathy is genuine by putting on a public show for the nasty sort of people that have Puritanical urges. I don't really care what random joe does on the street after a shooting, I care what my politician does because holy shit that is the job of the american people to judge what our politicians are doing! Also, go back and look at my edit from the post you quoted because it might change what we talk about | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
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IyMoon
United States1249 Posts
I dislike when a politician goes 'thoughts and prayers' and I find it a useless gesture. A politician expressing sympathy without moving to change things is useless in my opinion. I don't judge a random person who does the same in the same way I judge a person in power. Does this make my position clearer? | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On January 24 2018 02:22 IyMoon wrote: I don't really care what random joe does on the street after a shooting, I care what my politician does because holy shit that is the job of the american people to judge what our politicians are doing! Also, go back and look at my edit from the post you quoted because it might change what we talk about No, you’re judging that a non-political solution is not proper sympathy, now changed to empathy (still a human emotion, sharing the feelings in the wake of a tragedy in this case). That’s judgement. And it’s faulty thinking that I hope you have better sense of in real life instead of outrage and staking opinions on the internet. You sit in judgement of sympathy and empathy in the wake of a tragedy because you demand a political response angle. Disgusting. | ||
KwarK
United States44428 Posts
With that in mind, I think it's okay to say that you're sorry that a thing happened while also not fixing it. If you weren't fixing it out of apathy that would be one thing, but not fixing it because you believe the fix is worse than the current problem is fine. I don't see the issue with "I'm sorry X happened, I wish it hadn't happened" while allowing it to happen. I think a classic example of this is war. If you believe a war is necessary you can simultaneously embrace the likelihood for casualties while regretting the specific reality of casualties without hypocrisy. | ||
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