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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
KwarK
United States42609 Posts
On January 24 2018 04:06 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: This was probably said during slavery or the holocaust. Which is why context matters. If you're poor and you have a pregnant wife it's probably okay to take a job selling timeshares for the health insurance or whatever. But it's probably not okay to take a job as a concentration camp guard, even if the SS have great benefits programs. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8982 Posts
On January 24 2018 04:08 KwarK wrote: Which is why context matters. If you're poor and you have a pregnant wife it's probably okay to take a job selling timeshares for the health insurance or whatever. But it's probably not okay to take a job as a concentration camp guard, even if the SS have great benefits programs. Agreed. Just wanted tongive p6 a bit of shit because I'm bored at work. | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
Housing and Urban Development Secretary Ben Carson, whose biggest headline to date came from getting stuck in an elevator in Miami, is an easy target for progressives who are angry about Trump administration officials who lack qualifications. Carson’s leadership has been messy at best, and his callousness shows in his support for budget cuts and belief that poverty is “a state of mind.” But while it’s easy blame HUD’s inadequacies on incompetent administrators, the agency’s problems can’t be solved by simply changing personnel. Its failures have persisted for decades regardless of who is in charge — ever since its predecessor, the Federal Housing Administration, began issuing mortgage insurance. That’s because racism was built into the FHA’s lending programs, guiding who had access to home-buying credit. When HUD was established in 1965, it continued that legacy, but rather than using credit policy to advance segregation, it simply left minority homeowners subject to financial predation. From the beginning, U.S. housing agencies have failed to provide equal opportunities for affordable housing. The New Deal’s housing revolution, which used federal dollars to open up homeownership to a generation of Americans, largely excluded nonwhite citizens. The National Housing Act of 1937 offered public housing on a segregated basis — the price of getting the legislation through a Southern-dominated Congress — and the FHA, which was created to insure mortgage loans at a time when banks were nervous to lend money, made poorer areas with higher concentrations of African Americans ineligible for FHA-insured mortgages — a practice known as “redlining.” For the next several decades, funding for public housing and the FHA mortgage program failed to address the needs of the urban and largely nonwhite poor. President Lyndon B. Johnson attempted to open the housing market to racial minorities with the creation of HUD and, three years later, the 1968 Fair Housing Act. But President Richard M. Nixon reversed these gains and diminished the federal government’s role in the housing market. By 1972, no HUD office was insuring FHA mortgages in central city areas. As government-backed loans dried up, predatory lending filled the void. Speculators took advantage of the influx of new buyers entering the market after Section 223(e) of Johnson’s 1968 Housing and Urban Development Act extended mortgage insurance to low-income urban areas, thereby including racial minorities previously excluded from homeownership. They preyed on these buyers in such volume that by the 1970s their efforts had become a full-fledged scandal. www.washingtonpost.com Well I guess it's not exactly a visibly awful job. Just a mediocre performance consistent across administrations. | ||
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farvacola
United States18825 Posts
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On January 24 2018 04:14 LegalLord wrote: So, I was a bit curious about our sight-unseen executive nominations, so I decided to look into Ben Carson. www.washingtonpost.com Well I guess it's not exactly a visibly awful job. Just a mediocre performance consistent across administrations. just cuz it was consistently poor doesn't mean carson isn't doing an even worse job. at any rate, I cna't read the full article, and the quoted section doesn't get into much detail on how carson is actually doing. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
WASHINGTON — Attorney General Jeff Sessions was questioned for several hours last week as part of the special counsel investigation, a Justice Department spokeswoman said on Tuesday, and the former F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, was interviewed by the office last year, according to two people briefed on the matter. The meeting with Mr. Sessions marked the first time that investigators for the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, are known to have interviewed a member of President Trump’s cabinet. The interview with Mr. Comey focused on a series of memos he wrote about his interactions with Mr. Trump that unnerved Mr. Comey. In one memo, Mr. Comey said that Mr. Trump had asked him to end the F.B.I.’s investigation into the former national security adviser, Michael T. Flynn. After the president’s request was disclosed, the deputy attorney general, Rod J. Rosenstein, appointed Mr. Mueller as the special counsel to lead the Russia investigation and examine whether the president obstructed justice. The disclosure about Mr. Comey’s interview came hours after the Justice Department spokeswoman, Sarah Isgur Flores, confirmed that the interview with Mr. Sessions occurred. Mr. Sessions was accompanied by the longtime Washington lawyer Chuck Cooper to the interview. The attorney general announced in March that he had recused himself from all matters related to the 2016 election, including the Russia inquiry. The disclosure came after it was revealed that Mr. Sessions had not told Congress that he met twice with the Russian ambassador to the United States at the time, Sergey I. Kislyak, during the campaign. Mr. Sessions, an early supporter of Mr. Trump’s presidential run, had been among a small group of senior campaign and administration officials whom Mr. Mueller had been expected to interview. Mr. Mueller’s interest in Mr. Sessions shows how the president’s own actions helped prompt a broader inquiry. What began as a Justice Department counterintelligence investigation into Russia’s election interference is now also an examination of whether Mr. Trump tried to obstruct the inquiry, and the nation’s top law enforcement officer is a witness in the case. For Mr. Mueller, Mr. Sessions is a key witness to two of the major issues he is investigating: the campaign’s possible ties to the Russians and whether the president tried to obstruct the Russia investigation. Mr. Mueller can question Mr. Sessions about his role as the head of the campaign’s foreign policy team. Mr. Sessions was involved in developing Mr. Trump’s position toward Russia and met with Russian officials, including the ambassador. Along with Mr. Trump, Mr. Sessions led a March 2016 meeting at the Trump International Hotel in Washington, where one of the campaign’s foreign policy advisers, George Papadopoulos, pitched the idea of a personal meeting between Mr. Trump and Mr. Putin. Mr. Papadopoulos plead guilty in October to lying to federal authorities about the nature of his contacts with the Russians and agreed to cooperate with the special counsel’s office. As attorney general, Mr. Sessions was deeply involved in the firing of the former F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, and the president has repeatedly criticized Mr. Sessions publicly and privately for recusing himself from the Russia investigation. When Mr. Trump learned in March that Mr. Sessions was considering whether to recuse himself, the president had the White House’s top lawyer, Donald F. McGahn II, lobby Mr. Sessions to remain in charge of the Russia investigation. Mr. Sessions instead followed the guidance of career prosecutors at the Justice Department, who advised him that he should not be involved with the investigation. When Mr. Trump was told of this, the president erupted in anger, saying he needed an attorney general to protect him. After Mr. Mueller was appointed in May, Mr. Trump again erupted at Mr. Sessions and Mr. Sessions offered to resign. Several days later, Mr. Trump rejected Mr. Sessions’s offer. Two weeks ago, Mr. Mueller subpoenaed Mr. Trump’s former chief strategist, Stephen K. Bannon, to testify before a grand jury. Mr. Mueller is expected to forgo the grand jury appearance for now and will have his investigators interview Mr. Bannon in the coming weeks. Source | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 24 2018 04:09 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: Agreed. Just wanted tongive p6 a bit of shit because I'm bored at work. Its fine. I’m not mad about you giving me shit. Just disappointed that how unoriginal it was. I expected more, tbh. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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KwarK
United States42609 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23209 Posts
On January 24 2018 04:08 KwarK wrote: Which is why context matters. If you're poor and you have a pregnant wife it's probably okay to take a job selling timeshares for the health insurance or whatever. But it's probably not okay to take a job as a concentration camp guard, even if the SS have great benefits programs. Context does matter, and while our prison industrial complex isn't the exact same as slavery or the early stages of the holocaust, there's enough overlap that it's reasonable to argue it should be a revenue source of last resort, particularly if you expressly feel no obligation to help victims (yes victims, because even if you commit crimes our justice system has no intention of rehabilitating you) of the justice system as much as you can in your role. It's legitimately hard to be a decent human being in this system, and there is no ethical consumption in capitalism but we gotta own our trash. I gotta remember I'm using a computer created by exploited people from the mines to the factories, to the retail outlets and make sure on net I use it more to fix those problems than perpetuate them. From a satellite perspective I think all citizens of the US share a similar burden as our nation is built off the exploitation of others and there's not a citizen among us that doesn't benefit from that exploitation, though some much more than others. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
Damn, Democrats are learning something. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
So basically this whole shutdown the Republicans could have averted if they had used their 2018 reconciliation bill for the year to actually reconcile the budget and keep the government open with only 51 votes. Just shows how bad the dems are at messaging... still... somehow. | ||
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IyMoon
United States1249 Posts
On January 24 2018 05:50 Logo wrote: It took awhile, but someone brought up reconciliation for the shutdown. I didn't realize it but the reason the Republicans couldn't use it to keep the government open was because they already used it for the tax bill. So basically this whole shutdown the Republicans could have averted if they had used their 2018 reconciliation bill for the year to actually reconcile the budge and keep the government open with only 51 votes. Just shows how bad the dems are at messaging... still... somehow. I mean... that does not seem like a good message. R's cant do it this way because they already used it to do something they all really wanted? | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On January 24 2018 05:55 IyMoon wrote: I mean... that does not seem like a good message. R's cant do it this way because they already used it to do something they all really wanted? "The Rs misused a congressional process and as a result got the government shut down" or "The Rs used budget reconciliation to pass a really unpopular bill which then also caused a government shutdown" seems reasonable messaging? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 24 2018 05:57 Logo wrote: "The Rs misused a congressional process and as a result got the government shut down" or "The Rs used budget reconciliation to pass a really unpopular bill which then also caused a government shutdown" seems reasonable messaging? Democrats used it first to pass the ACA. That opened up Pandora’s box. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On January 24 2018 05:59 Plansix wrote: Yes. Reconciliation can only be used once a fiscal year. And I am not really sure the Democrats have messed this one up. The reality is they only have limited power in the Senate. It sounds like moderate republicans are willing to have a full debate on immigration and pass a bill, but it will likely never get voted on by the House. The harsh reality is that the Dreamer’s fate might have been sealed back on November 8, 2016. The Republicans might be totally willing to let the Dreamers be deported rather than vote on immigration, they are just not willing to say that out loud. And if that is true, there is nothing the Democrats can do in 2018. Democrats used it first to pass the ACA. That opened up Pandora’s box. Hypocrisy has never stopped a politician from making a point before. Why now? | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23209 Posts
On January 24 2018 05:26 Danglars wrote: https://twitter.com/tackettdc/status/955893645751840768 Damn, Democrats are learning something. I don't think it's what you think it is. This is more of a "Trumpian" thing where some billionaire is faking it better than they can by just selling people the comforting lie (which they started). He's got 3 million+ people who signed his petition which is what he was really after in the first place (the mailing list). Democrat politicians are just wary of what seems to be their replacements (wealthy celebs) who are much better at what their roles have become, which is convincing people they want shitty policies that benefit a wealthy few. I understand the impulse, but I don't think this is the news you think it is. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On January 24 2018 06:01 Logo wrote: Hypocrisy has never stopped a politician from making a point before. Why now? That messaging would spring back to hurt Dems. You don't want us to use a process you have used before and will likely use when you get back into power? Bad messaging. They're way better off putting blame on DACA negotiations or the House. Maybe they can sell the population that Republicans want too much border security in exchange for amnesty, and push a shutdown to improve their negotiating position. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On January 24 2018 06:07 GreenHorizons wrote: I don't think it's what you think it is. This is more of a "Trumpian" thing where some billionaire is faking it better than they can by just selling people the comforting lie (which they started). He's got 3 million+ people who signed his petition which is what he was really after in the first place (the mailing list). Democrat politicians are just wary of what seems to be their replacements (wealthy celebs) who are much better at what their roles have become, which is convincing people they want shitty policies that benefit a wealthy few. I understand the impulse, but I don't think this is the news you think it is. They've got some tough races in Trump country. They're attacking more fruitful ground, like Republicans under Trump are bad for the economy, rather than catering to the more radical parts of their base and saying to vote for their side to #Resist #ImpeachTrump. Thus far, with the ineffectual shutdown, they've been too conciliatory to their radical fringe. | ||
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