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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
IyMoon
Profile Joined April 2016
United States1249 Posts
January 22 2018 19:17 GMT
#195121
On January 23 2018 04:16 Introvert wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2018 04:15 IyMoon wrote:
On January 23 2018 04:14 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On January 23 2018 03:25 ticklishmusic wrote:
And Nunes has his memo detailing wrongdoing at the FBI which he refuses to release.


He won't even release it the director of the FBI, apparently.


Because its nothing. This is just something so the crazies can get all riled up


I thought that at the very least the committee has to vote to release it. I can see why the Democrats would block the memo, but I think they are also blocking the whole thing.

I don't think Nunes can release it by himself.


The committee is not under democrat control afaik. So if it really hurts the dems, the Rs would release it
Something witty
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
January 22 2018 19:17 GMT
#195122
Democrats caved to end the shutdown. Just ask them.

You don't need me to tell you that Democrats just caved when it comes to ending the government shutdown; even some of their leading senators are admitting it. Here's Sen. Kamala D. Harris (D-Calif.), a potential 2020 Democratic presidential candidate:

Here's another critic, Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.):


And here's a statement from OFA, the political offshoot of Barack Obama's presidential campaigns: “Let’s be clear: This stopgap measure is not a solution. It’s merely a band-aid for a self-inflicted wound that remains untreated.” Another liberal group, CREDO Action, offered this:

[image loading]
To be clear, most Senate Democrats wound up voting to reopen the government. They did so after a deal was struck in which Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) was assured that the Senate would vote on some kind of immigration deal by Feb. 8 — and if they didn't have a deal, there would be an up-or-down vote on DACA, the program protecting the children of illegal immigrants from deportation. Just 16 of the 49 members of the Senate Democratic caucus voted no, and it's a group that is full of potential 2020 contenders like Harris who have a clear interest in appealing to the base.

But that's also the point. Those members have made appealing to the Democratic base their raison d'etre, and they've quickly wagered that this thing isn't going to fly with that same base. The base was cheering Democrats for taking a stand on behalf of so-called dreamers and demanding that they be protected; instead, Schumer has merely been assured of a vote on something to-be-determined that may or may not succeed.

Washington Post

WaPo is pretty spicey on it. Interesting.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
January 22 2018 19:18 GMT
#195123
They get CHIP and McConnell has three weeks to get his party on the same page. People forget that that in 2017 the Republicans were looking to fund the government all the way through 2018, past the mid terms. Now they are settling for 3 weeks stop gap measures.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
January 22 2018 19:20 GMT
#195124
On January 23 2018 04:17 IyMoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2018 04:16 Introvert wrote:
On January 23 2018 04:15 IyMoon wrote:
On January 23 2018 04:14 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On January 23 2018 03:25 ticklishmusic wrote:
And Nunes has his memo detailing wrongdoing at the FBI which he refuses to release.


He won't even release it the director of the FBI, apparently.


Because its nothing. This is just something so the crazies can get all riled up


I thought that at the very least the committee has to vote to release it. I can see why the Democrats would block the memo, but I think they are also blocking the whole thing.

I don't think Nunes can release it by himself.


The committee is not under democrat control afaik. So if it really hurts the dems, the Rs would release it

One thing I have learned in 2017 is that there isn’t much a committee can do if one of their members decides just leak a memo or transcript. If he wanted it out in the world, it would be out in the world.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
January 22 2018 19:20 GMT
#195125
On January 23 2018 04:16 Introvert wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2018 04:15 IyMoon wrote:
On January 23 2018 04:14 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On January 23 2018 03:25 ticklishmusic wrote:
And Nunes has his memo detailing wrongdoing at the FBI which he refuses to release.


He won't even release it the director of the FBI, apparently.


Because its nothing. This is just something so the crazies can get all riled up


I thought that at the very least the committee has to vote to release it. I can see why the Democrats would block the memo, but I think they are also blocking the whole thing.

I don't think Nunes can release it by himself.

He can’t declassify it. Some people were talking about a never-used-before rule that might work.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-22 19:21:30
January 22 2018 19:20 GMT
#195126
On January 23 2018 04:16 IyMoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2018 04:15 Introvert wrote:
They support the same bill but a week shorter and with a pinky promise from McConnell. It's certainly not the activists on the dem side were demanding (See Harris, Kamala). Future circumstances can change but this looks like treading water at best for Democrats.


I think this is a great play for the long game. If the R can't keep their promises then the next shutdown in 3 weeks has a whole new reason behind it.


Conversely the Republicans can push some moderate solution outside of a shutdown and claim credit on getting something done when they had to be dragged kicking and screaming to get to this point. Which like that's fine or good because it solves this dumb issue, but seems like a terrible political gameplan.
Logo
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-22 19:23:35
January 22 2018 19:21 GMT
#195127
Double post please delete
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-22 19:23:47
January 22 2018 19:23 GMT
#195128
CHIP better be in this CR.

On January 23 2018 04:16 Introvert wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2018 04:15 IyMoon wrote:
On January 23 2018 04:14 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On January 23 2018 03:25 ticklishmusic wrote:
And Nunes has his memo detailing wrongdoing at the FBI which he refuses to release.


He won't even release it the director of the FBI, apparently.


Because its nothing. This is just something so the crazies can get all riled up


I thought that at the very least the committee has to vote to release it. I can see why the Democrats would block the memo, but I think they are also blocking the whole thing.

I don't think Nunes can release it by himself.


I'm pretty sure he can release it to the Trump-appointed director of the FBI, though.

Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4748 Posts
January 22 2018 19:23 GMT
#195129
On January 23 2018 04:17 IyMoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2018 04:16 Introvert wrote:
On January 23 2018 04:15 IyMoon wrote:
On January 23 2018 04:14 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On January 23 2018 03:25 ticklishmusic wrote:
And Nunes has his memo detailing wrongdoing at the FBI which he refuses to release.


He won't even release it the director of the FBI, apparently.


Because its nothing. This is just something so the crazies can get all riled up


I thought that at the very least the committee has to vote to release it. I can see why the Democrats would block the memo, but I think they are also blocking the whole thing.

I don't think Nunes can release it by himself.


The committee is not under democrat control afaik. So if it really hurts the dems, the Rs would release it


Ok, I did some googling. Basically they'd have to use a never-before-used rule and some Republicans are arguing about what needs to be redacted.

From the story it doesn't look like Dems want anything released.

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/20/politics/house-intelligence-nunes-fisa-memo/index.html
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-22 19:27:51
January 22 2018 19:24 GMT
#195130
On January 23 2018 04:16 Introvert wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2018 04:15 IyMoon wrote:
On January 23 2018 04:14 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On January 23 2018 03:25 ticklishmusic wrote:
And Nunes has his memo detailing wrongdoing at the FBI which he refuses to release.


He won't even release it the director of the FBI, apparently.


Because its nothing. This is just something so the crazies can get all riled up


I thought that at the very least the committee has to vote to release it. I can see why the Democrats would block the memo, but I think they are also blocking the whole thing.

I don't think Nunes can release it by himself.


The democrats want him to release the memo. Nunes is crying about releasing a memo that he has the power to release.

That article is about a partial release so that Republicans can release bits and pieces that discredit the investigation and shield transition members like Nunes who knew about Russian interference during the election. Democrats do oppose this yes.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
January 22 2018 19:28 GMT
#195131
On January 23 2018 04:24 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2018 04:16 Introvert wrote:
On January 23 2018 04:15 IyMoon wrote:
On January 23 2018 04:14 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On January 23 2018 03:25 ticklishmusic wrote:
And Nunes has his memo detailing wrongdoing at the FBI which he refuses to release.


He won't even release it the director of the FBI, apparently.


Because its nothing. This is just something so the crazies can get all riled up


I thought that at the very least the committee has to vote to release it. I can see why the Democrats would block the memo, but I think they are also blocking the whole thing.

I don't think Nunes can release it by himself.


The democrats want him to release the memo. Nunes is crying about releasing a memo that he has the power to release.

That article is about a partial release so that Republicans can release bits and pieces that discredit the investigation and shield transition members like Nunes who knew about Russian interference during the election.

Democrats have repeatedly said its false and argued against its release. See: Schiff. Most recently on the record justifying the stance by saying Americans wouldn’t understand it. This guy rofl.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
January 22 2018 19:31 GMT
#195132
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
January 22 2018 19:35 GMT
#195133
If it’s classified, why is Nunes yelling about it to the press? That isn’t how stuff being classified is supposed to work.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
IyMoon
Profile Joined April 2016
United States1249 Posts
January 22 2018 19:46 GMT
#195134
On January 23 2018 04:31 Doodsmack wrote:
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/955507864243789825


People always say that 'X' is on their way out. I would be surprised if this is true
Something witty
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-22 19:51:34
January 22 2018 19:47 GMT
#195135
On January 23 2018 04:28 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2018 04:24 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
On January 23 2018 04:16 Introvert wrote:
On January 23 2018 04:15 IyMoon wrote:
On January 23 2018 04:14 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On January 23 2018 03:25 ticklishmusic wrote:
And Nunes has his memo detailing wrongdoing at the FBI which he refuses to release.


He won't even release it the director of the FBI, apparently.


Because its nothing. This is just something so the crazies can get all riled up


I thought that at the very least the committee has to vote to release it. I can see why the Democrats would block the memo, but I think they are also blocking the whole thing.

I don't think Nunes can release it by himself.


The democrats want him to release the memo. Nunes is crying about releasing a memo that he has the power to release.

That article is about a partial release so that Republicans can release bits and pieces that discredit the investigation and shield transition members like Nunes who knew about Russian interference during the election.

Democrats have repeatedly said its false and argued against its release. See: Schiff. Most recently on the record justifying the stance by saying Americans wouldn’t understand it. This guy rofl.


I hadn't seen that. I agree that Schiff is an idiot.

I do still standby the statement that a partial release where Republicans pick and choose what to redact is unacceptable. You're either being transparent and releasing the memo in it's entirety or you're not transparent and should shut up about the classified information that you can't release.

If the FBI is half as corrupt as Nunes is insisting he should become a whistle blower post haste.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
January 22 2018 19:47 GMT
#195136
On January 23 2018 04:35 Plansix wrote:
If it’s classified, why is Nunes yelling about it to the press? That isn’t how stuff being classified is supposed to work.

To urge the administration to declassify and release it. Something he can’t do without publicity.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4748 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-22 19:51:57
January 22 2018 19:49 GMT
#195137
I posted the whole thing because it's so short, sorry web traffic!

On Monday afternoon, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer addressed a scrum of reporters in the Capitol to announce that Democrats would provide the votes to keep the government open until February 8, given Mitch McConnell’s agreement to address “Dreamers” on the Senate floor next month.

The White House was quick to boast that Democrats had “cave[d].” “Win for White House; Loss for Schumer,” one official who had been involved in the talks texted me. “He didn’t really get much.”

Of course, the reality is that President Donald Trump didn’t have much to do with the deal—his last meeting with Schumer to avoid a shutdown was famously unproductive. Yet the official, speaking on condition of anonymity so as to describe confidential conversations, assured me that Trump’s legislative affairs team has been on the Hill in the last several days “working this” and giving “regular updates” to the president, who, the source added, “has been very engaged.” The official added that a group of senators supportive of Trump’s immigration vision were meeting at the White House on Monday afternoon.

Democrats are already struggling with how to spin this development, especially when, just three days ago, they held a hard line against funding the government, energizing their base with the promise to protect DACA recipients. But one Senate Democratic source, who asked not to be named so as to discuss private conversations with senators, told me that something like reality has shone through in the interim. The Democratic caucus became increasingly uncomfortable with the “mixed poll numbers” on which side would take the blame should the shutdown continue. And with Democrats’ edge over Republicans in the upcoming midterm elections softening, continuing the shutdown didn’t seem worth the gamble. I asked the source how Democrats would try to frame the day, and the source, who’s been on the Hill for over a decade, was at a loss: “If you had told me yesterday this is where we’d be, I would not have believed it. Yet here we are.”

House Republicans are “confused” as to what Democrats expect to happen on DACA, one senior Republican staffer told me. The staffer, who requested anonymity due to the confidential nature of the discussions, said House Republicans had “no clue” what legislation to address DACA would even look like in this moment—a sign of the flimsiness of the deal to which Schumer assented. “Sooner or later we’ll have to vote on something here [regarding DACA], but what that is, I don’t know,” the source said. “I don’t know the substance. I don’t know the process.”

The three-week stopgap bill to fund the government will sail through the House, the staffer said, “as fast as they can get the papers turned around.” The fate of a bipartisan compromise on DACA, however—not to mention one that both chambers can agree on—is far less promising.


https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/01/gop-shutdown/551159/

Edit: and look at this politico headline lol: Democrats get rolled in shutdown standoff

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/22/government-shutdown-deal-democrats-lose-355997
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15686 Posts
January 22 2018 19:49 GMT
#195138
On January 23 2018 04:46 IyMoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2018 04:31 Doodsmack wrote:
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/955507864243789825


People always say that 'X' is on their way out. I would be surprised if this is true

Yeah, how long ago did we hear tillerson was moments from quitting?
IyMoon
Profile Joined April 2016
United States1249 Posts
January 22 2018 19:53 GMT
#195139
On January 23 2018 04:49 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2018 04:46 IyMoon wrote:
On January 23 2018 04:31 Doodsmack wrote:
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/955507864243789825


People always say that 'X' is on their way out. I would be surprised if this is true

Yeah, how long ago did we hear tillerson was moments from quitting?


The better question is how many TIMES have we heard he was quitting.
Something witty
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
January 22 2018 20:01 GMT
#195140
On January 23 2018 04:49 Introvert wrote:
I posted the whole thing because it's so short, sorry web traffic!

Show nested quote +
On Monday afternoon, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer addressed a scrum of reporters in the Capitol to announce that Democrats would provide the votes to keep the government open until February 8, given Mitch McConnell’s agreement to address “Dreamers” on the Senate floor next month.

The White House was quick to boast that Democrats had “cave[d].” “Win for White House; Loss for Schumer,” one official who had been involved in the talks texted me. “He didn’t really get much.”

Of course, the reality is that President Donald Trump didn’t have much to do with the deal—his last meeting with Schumer to avoid a shutdown was famously unproductive. Yet the official, speaking on condition of anonymity so as to describe confidential conversations, assured me that Trump’s legislative affairs team has been on the Hill in the last several days “working this” and giving “regular updates” to the president, who, the source added, “has been very engaged.” The official added that a group of senators supportive of Trump’s immigration vision were meeting at the White House on Monday afternoon.

Democrats are already struggling with how to spin this development, especially when, just three days ago, they held a hard line against funding the government, energizing their base with the promise to protect DACA recipients. But one Senate Democratic source, who asked not to be named so as to discuss private conversations with senators, told me that something like reality has shone through in the interim. The Democratic caucus became increasingly uncomfortable with the “mixed poll numbers” on which side would take the blame should the shutdown continue. And with Democrats’ edge over Republicans in the upcoming midterm elections softening, continuing the shutdown didn’t seem worth the gamble. I asked the source how Democrats would try to frame the day, and the source, who’s been on the Hill for over a decade, was at a loss: “If you had told me yesterday this is where we’d be, I would not have believed it. Yet here we are.”

House Republicans are “confused” as to what Democrats expect to happen on DACA, one senior Republican staffer told me. The staffer, who requested anonymity due to the confidential nature of the discussions, said House Republicans had “no clue” what legislation to address DACA would even look like in this moment—a sign of the flimsiness of the deal to which Schumer assented. “Sooner or later we’ll have to vote on something here [regarding DACA], but what that is, I don’t know,” the source said. “I don’t know the substance. I don’t know the process.”

The three-week stopgap bill to fund the government will sail through the House, the staffer said, “as fast as they can get the papers turned around.” The fate of a bipartisan compromise on DACA, however—not to mention one that both chambers can agree on—is far less promising.


https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/01/gop-shutdown/551159/

Edit: and look at this politico headline lol: Democrats get rolled in shutdown standoff

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/22/government-shutdown-deal-democrats-lose-355997

The hot take factory begins to churn. Republicans got so much, after all. 3 weeks and this entire fight can happen again and the shut down can still take place. They were looking for over a year before, but how they are settling to fund the government in 3 week agreements.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
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