EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 9755
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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farvacola
United States18874 Posts
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On January 23 2018 02:46 farvacola wrote: Turtle boy made the commitment publicly and in a manner he hasn't previously, so maybe there's reason to hope. Didn't he do the same during the Tax bill to a few of the Republican holdouts? What about the whole bump-stock thing? ----- On another note, how is this CHIP extension being funded? Is it just a clean spending measure rather than the cut from medicare one? Is there anything else in this stopgap measure that's notable, but not headline worthy? | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
Trump can justy veto any DACA reform he doesn't like (read: all of them that doesn't result in people getting deported) which obviously would result in another shutdown in 3weeks from now. Will have to see what the DACA reform ends up being and wether Trump signs it before judging this. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24499 Posts
On January 23 2018 02:51 farvacola wrote: Depends on what you mean by winning; if Republicans don't come through on their promise, this whole thing could happen again and/or Dreamers could start getting deported. Thankfully it's totally rational to assume Republicans are being honest and will stick to their word. On January 23 2018 02:57 Mohdoo wrote: I'm puzzled by the idea of ever trusting a turtle, but I imagine McConnell realizes violating this trust will completely eliminate any hope of ever working well together. What hope? But seriously they work together fine on things like endless funding for a military that mysteriously has money for multi-billion dollar ships but not adequate healthcare for the people who run it. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 23 2018 02:51 farvacola wrote: Depends on what you mean by winning; if Republicans don't come through on their promise, this whole thing could happen again and/or Dreamers could start getting deported. This is when Republicans really lose. Deporting the Dreamers is super unpopular and will dominate the headlines for the rest of 2018. It isn’t hard to find these people and they are all basically model immigrants. I think around 900 of them are service members. The same with the folks from Haiti and El Salvador. They are all legal immigrants that are getting deported because people like Miller and Cotton want them out of the country. They made lives here, pay taxes and are doing fine, but now need to go home to countries that do not have room for them. Once those deportations start, it will be an endless line of stories about model immigrants getting thrown out for no real reason. Republicans don’t’ want this bad PR. But they also don’t want to stop promising to cracking down on “illegal immigration” which is basically all immigration to a good chunk of their base. On January 23 2018 02:56 GreenHorizons wrote: Thankfully it's totally rational to assume Republicans are being honest and will stick to their word. I'm willing to bet they are going to put it in writing and say it on the Senate floor. Personally, I'm willing to wait three weeks to watch them go back on their word, not vote and have the government shut down again. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
Both sides claim victory. We’ll see what’s in the DACA bill to know for sure. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
Had they not hardlined on it there would not be a discussion scheduled for it in the first place, neither would there be a bill and if hell froze together and they somehow got it Trump would still veto it. So claiming they got nothing is a bit silly. They got exactly what they wanted. Now, wether or not it was worth will be seen after those 3 weeks. If the bill turns out a hot piece of garbage it will easily be a GOP win. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
The latest news that five months’ worth of text messages between FBI agent Peter Strzok and DOJ attorney Lisa Page is sure to make supporters of President Donald Trump continue to claim that the Russia investigation is a politically-motivated scheme. More importantly, however, Trump’s lawyers will now be able to do the same. Strzok has already been outed as anti-Trump, leading to his dismissal from the probe, and his past communications with Page showed a potential Justice Department bias towards Hillary Clinton. The fact that now nearly half a year’s worth of text messages between Strzok and Page during the time leading up to Robert Mueller‘s appointment as Special Counsel weren’t preserved by the Justice Department will surely fuel motions from Team Trump’s lawyers against the investigation. Months of text messages don’t just accidentally disappear. One past conversation between Strzok and Page indicated that former Attorney General Loretta Lynch knew there would be no charges filed against Clinton well before that investigation ended. Given the significant evidence of impropriety in the Clinton case, a foregone conclusion of innocence before the FBI wrapped up their investigation looks shady at best. Trump’s lawyers will surely argue that after those messages came to light, the DOJ intentionally “lost” those five months’ worth of other messages. Look for Paul Manafort to jump all over this. He’s already fighting his indictment, claiming that Mueller is overstepping his authority and shouldn’t be running the investigation. Throw in this evidence that the investigation may have been tainted before Mueller even took over, and that the DOJ could be covering up damaging information, and a motion to dismiss alleging prosecutorial misconduct is a near certainty. FBI Agent Strzok was reportedly heading up the Manafort investigation before he was taken off the Mueller probe. Manafort’s attorney might try to say that the missing text messages could contain exculpatory evidence (or evidence favorable to the defendant) and therefore the court should get to the bottom of what the two said. However, two former federal prosecutors who spoke to Law&Crime both contend it would be difficult to get the entire indictment dismissed based on the text messages alone. lawandcrime (lawnewz) The missing texts cover a six month period up to the appointment of Mueller. Congressional oversight is currently probing the excuse offered for their deletion. Texts successfully turned over to congressional inquiry committees show discussions of an insurance policy in the event of Trump’s election as well as texts saying the Hillary investigation had a shorter timetable because Trump won the primary. Its not enough to ease headaches for those under investigation, but it will have investigators all over the Trump DOJ for the foreseeable future. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On January 23 2018 02:57 Mohdoo wrote: I'm puzzled by the idea of ever trusting a turtle, but I imagine McConnell realizes violating this trust will completely eliminate any hope of ever working well together. From a messaging standpoint - if McConnell tries to weasel (mixed animal metaphors) his way out of this, Dems can paint Republicans are the party that can't be trusted - they lied to the Dems, they lied to their constituents and they're lying liars. And if the government shuts down in 3 weeks, it's not the Dems 'holding things hostage', it's the Reps reneging on a promise. I think the Dems came out ahead on this exchange. And bonus, Trump had to stay in DC for the weekend. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On January 23 2018 02:52 Logo wrote: Didn't he do the same during the Tax bill to a few of the Republican holdouts? What about the whole bump-stock thing? ----- On another note, how is this CHIP extension being funded? Is it just a clean spending measure rather than the cut from medicare one? Is there anything else in this stopgap measure that's notable, but not headline worthy? Congress has done nothing and a bunch of states(I believe it was somewhere in the mid teens) are trying to ban them at the state level. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 23 2018 03:24 Gahlo wrote: Congress has done nothing and a bunch of states(I believe it was somewhere in the mid teens) are trying to ban them at the state level. Paul Ryan talked about debating it and then it died in the House. Because that man has no control over the floor or that chamber. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On January 23 2018 03:05 Toadesstern wrote: i mean if it's a decent DACA bill it's easily a DEM win because they got everything they wanted. They just wanted the assurance that there will be a hearing and a bill for it. Had they not hardlined on it there would not be a discussion scheduled for it in the first place, neither would there be a bill and if hell froze together and they somehow got it Trump would still veto it. So claiming they got nothing is a bit silly. They got exactly what they wanted. Now, wether or not it was worth will be seen after those 3 weeks. If the bill turns out a hot piece of garbage it will easily be a GOP win. My state senator (and local 2020 heartthrob) thinks there wasn’t even a commitment made to go back on. It doesn’t square with people telling me they got exactly what they wanted. Otherwise, why go public. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On January 23 2018 03:20 ticklishmusic wrote: From a messaging standpoint - if McConnell tries to weasel (mixed animal metaphors) his way out of this, Dems can paint Republicans are the party that can't be trusted - they lied to the Dems, they lied to their constituents and they're lying liars. And if the government shuts down in 3 weeks, it's not the Dems 'holding things hostage', it's the Reps reneging on a promise. I think the Dems came out ahead on this exchange. And bonus, Trump had to stay in DC for the weekend. Yeah, this is what I am starting to think. This is somewhat deflating, but I think this is more so just set up to be extremely stubborn in a few weeks. As it currently stands, it was easy to see both sides as being too stubborn or uncooperative. In 3 weeks, if the dems do nothing but filibuster for months, it will appear entirely justified. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On January 23 2018 03:24 Gahlo wrote: Congress has done nothing and a bunch of states(I believe it was somewhere in the mid teens) are trying to ban them at the state level. Wasn't it a promise that the Senate would look into them though? Looking it up it seems like it sort of was, but never concretely and never by McConnell or the party as a whole so that "makes sense" for a pretty liberal use of that phrase. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On January 23 2018 03:24 Plansix wrote: The FBI agent and his texts throws a cloud over the investigation. But they fired the guy instantly and I don't think he was a lead on the investigation. But I fully expect the House Republicans to use this as a way to attack the investigation and the FBI. Especially when the investigation could lead to any congress member's campaign, because this isn't just about Trump. Paul Ryan talked about debating it and then it died in the House. Because that man has no control over the floor or that chamber. Mueller’s solid in there. Any firing and somebody else would resume. This is about FBI rep and accusations of politicization without the DOJ. You don’t tell the FBI that six months of texts got disappeared, but they just told that to Congress. This will resonate. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On January 23 2018 03:26 Danglars wrote: https://twitter.com/stevebruskcnn/status/955498423628726273 My state senator (and local 2020 heartthrob) thinks there wasn’t even a commitment made to go back on. It doesn’t square with people telling me they got exactly what they wanted. Otherwise, why go public. In many ways, it doesn't matter if it was some kinda official guarantee. If democrats make such a clear gesture towards reaching an agreement, and things don't go well in 3 weeks, they can pretty much do whatever they want without being the bad guys. This is more of an optics thing, the fight happens again in 3 weeks. This just gives democrats more room to be obnoxious later. | ||
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