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On January 13 2018 01:49 bo1b wrote:
I agree Gh, completely. It's a tragedy of the first order that America is not a borderline utopia, and that some of the problems it has, it really really has.
This is even lower tier trash argument than I was referring to. There's plenty of space between the wealthiest country on the planet that throws away as much food as it eats making sure kids aren't hungry and parents aren't in debt to buy them school lunches and Utopia.
The idea that it's this or fictional utopia is atrociously ignorant.
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sorry somehow double posted.
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On January 13 2018 01:54 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2018 01:47 Sbrubbles wrote:On January 13 2018 01:44 bo1b wrote:On January 13 2018 01:43 Sbrubbles wrote:On January 13 2018 01:38 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2018 01:37 Sbrubbles wrote:On January 13 2018 01:24 bo1b wrote:On January 13 2018 01:22 Sbrubbles wrote:On January 13 2018 01:15 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Second, if you reduce the scale of the military's mission, you will see profound consequences for both the U.S. and the world as a whole.
Quite the overstatement, if I've ever seen one. We're actively seeing expansionist policy from China and Russia in their respective areas of interest, mind explaining whats an overstatement about what he said? Are you claiming China and Russia would be outright invading their neighbors if it wasn't the size of big brother USA's military spending? They both already are. Ukraine and Tibet. Then it sounds like the US is powerless in either case, in spite of wasting money on the world's biggest military. Interesting conclusion. That's me trying to avoid moderation for what it's worth. Hey, it's your money, not mine. Kind of funny that you say that when Navy medicine just spent quite a bit of money to send a team of Navy doctors up the Amazon on a humanitarian mission in Brazil to rural indigenous populations, assisting your military medicine in doing so. Meanwhile, American service members train for combat with faulty equipment, live in dilapidated barracks, and continue to have their benefits cut. I'm a foremost supporter of all of the aid we give countries around the world, but it's ironic and kind of sad to see how ignorant some people are to the wide variety of missions and geopolitical effects that our military has on the world.
You've probably noticed but it drives me insane to see people denigrating the U.S when almost every nation on the planet is benefiting from them.
On January 13 2018 01:54 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2018 01:49 bo1b wrote:
I agree Gh, completely. It's a tragedy of the first order that America is not a borderline utopia, and that some of the problems it has, it really really has. This is even lower tier trash argument than I was referring to. There's plenty of space between the wealthiest country on the planet that throws away as much food as it eats making sure kids aren't hungry and parents aren't in debt to buy them school lunches and Utopia. The idea that it's this or fictional utopia is atrociously ignorant.
I was actually quite serious that the U.S in it's position should be a borderline utopia. I think you misread what I wrote.
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On January 13 2018 01:48 GreenHorizons wrote:
Flint STILL doesn't have clean water, Americans in Puerto Rico are going months without power and basic services, Kids in Baltimore had to skip school because temperatures were near freezing in their schools, we pay more for less in health care, education, and military (though with the military we pay sooo much more than anyone else it's hard to tell), yet veterans go hungry, without homes, and/or insane (they are a significant number of recent terrorist/mass shooters), but we're sooner to find another country to "democratize" than make sure the people we send are capable of reintegrating into the society we told them they were risking their lives for.
I know people like to make endless excuses, but in the wealthiest country on earth, that throws out nearly half of our consumable food, it's shamefully embarrassing that we have hungry children and parents in debt trying to pay for their school lunches.
Stop letting people tell you that there's no reasonable alternative to hungry kids, homeless mentally ill veterans, more people in prison than ANY other country, more than 1000 people killed by police every year, working poor, bankruptcy from healthcare, and so on.
This highlights the issues with the US really well. In the end, it all comes down to inequality. There is too much inequality. One of the very unfortunate sides of inequality is how complacent the non-suffering can be. The people who aren't suffering from the things you are listing simply don't care enough. Too low a % of people in the "actual middle class" care about actually taking action to fix these things. It is really sad.
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On January 13 2018 01:53 bo1b wrote:
I'd consider doing some reading into the subject of Pax Americana before writing a series of stupid posts on holding hands in a post nuclear war, and boiling it down greedy leaders wanting more influence.
So, if it's not leaders wanting more influence, or at the very least pushing back other leaders wanting more influence (what's the difference?) what is it then?
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On January 13 2018 01:57 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2018 01:48 GreenHorizons wrote:
Flint STILL doesn't have clean water, Americans in Puerto Rico are going months without power and basic services, Kids in Baltimore had to skip school because temperatures were near freezing in their schools, we pay more for less in health care, education, and military (though with the military we pay sooo much more than anyone else it's hard to tell), yet veterans go hungry, without homes, and/or insane (they are a significant number of recent terrorist/mass shooters), but we're sooner to find another country to "democratize" than make sure the people we send are capable of reintegrating into the society we told them they were risking their lives for.
I know people like to make endless excuses, but in the wealthiest country on earth, that throws out nearly half of our consumable food, it's shamefully embarrassing that we have hungry children and parents in debt trying to pay for their school lunches.
Stop letting people tell you that there's no reasonable alternative to hungry kids, homeless mentally ill veterans, more people in prison than ANY other country, more than 1000 people killed by police every year, working poor, bankruptcy from healthcare, and so on. This highlights the issues with the US really well. In the end, it all comes down to inequality. There is too much inequality. One of the very unfortunate sides of inequality is how complacent the non-suffering can be. The people who aren't suffering from the things you are listing simply don't care enough. Too low a % of people in the "actual middle class" care about actually taking action to fix these things. It is really sad.
Inequality also very strongly directly correlates with poor health outcomes, independent of other factors.
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On January 13 2018 01:54 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2018 01:47 Sbrubbles wrote:On January 13 2018 01:44 bo1b wrote:On January 13 2018 01:43 Sbrubbles wrote:On January 13 2018 01:38 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2018 01:37 Sbrubbles wrote:On January 13 2018 01:24 bo1b wrote:On January 13 2018 01:22 Sbrubbles wrote:On January 13 2018 01:15 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Second, if you reduce the scale of the military's mission, you will see profound consequences for both the U.S. and the world as a whole.
Quite the overstatement, if I've ever seen one. We're actively seeing expansionist policy from China and Russia in their respective areas of interest, mind explaining whats an overstatement about what he said? Are you claiming China and Russia would be outright invading their neighbors if it wasn't the size of big brother USA's military spending? They both already are. Ukraine and Tibet. Then it sounds like the US is powerless in either case, in spite of wasting money on the world's biggest military. Interesting conclusion. That's me trying to avoid moderation for what it's worth. Hey, it's your money, not mine. Kind of funny that you say that when Navy medicine just spent quite a bit of money to send a team of Navy doctors up the Amazon on a humanitarian mission in Brazil to rural indigenous populations, assisting your military medicine in doing so. Meanwhile, American service members train for combat with faulty equipment, live in dilapidated barracks, and continue to have their benefits cut. Don't get me started on work hours, on the job health, mental health support, etc. I'm a foremost supporter of all of the aid we give countries around the world, but it's ironic and kind of sad to see how ignorant some people are to the wide variety of missions and geopolitical effects that our military has on the world.
I appreciate it, though I would point out the same aid could have been given through a non-military group. Thanks again, though.
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On January 13 2018 01:55 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2018 01:54 Stratos_speAr wrote:On January 13 2018 01:47 Sbrubbles wrote:On January 13 2018 01:44 bo1b wrote:On January 13 2018 01:43 Sbrubbles wrote:On January 13 2018 01:38 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2018 01:37 Sbrubbles wrote:On January 13 2018 01:24 bo1b wrote:On January 13 2018 01:22 Sbrubbles wrote:On January 13 2018 01:15 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Second, if you reduce the scale of the military's mission, you will see profound consequences for both the U.S. and the world as a whole.
Quite the overstatement, if I've ever seen one. We're actively seeing expansionist policy from China and Russia in their respective areas of interest, mind explaining whats an overstatement about what he said? Are you claiming China and Russia would be outright invading their neighbors if it wasn't the size of big brother USA's military spending? They both already are. Ukraine and Tibet. Then it sounds like the US is powerless in either case, in spite of wasting money on the world's biggest military. Interesting conclusion. That's me trying to avoid moderation for what it's worth. Hey, it's your money, not mine. Kind of funny that you say that when Navy medicine just spent quite a bit of money to send a team of Navy doctors up the Amazon on a humanitarian mission in Brazil to rural indigenous populations, assisting your military medicine in doing so. Meanwhile, American service members train for combat with faulty equipment, live in dilapidated barracks, and continue to have their benefits cut. I'm a foremost supporter of all of the aid we give countries around the world, but it's ironic and kind of sad to see how ignorant some people are to the wide variety of missions and geopolitical effects that our military has on the world. You've probably noticed but it drives me insane to see people denigrating the U.S when almost every nation on the planet is benefiting from them. Show nested quote +On January 13 2018 01:54 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 13 2018 01:49 bo1b wrote:
I agree Gh, completely. It's a tragedy of the first order that America is not a borderline utopia, and that some of the problems it has, it really really has. This is even lower tier trash argument than I was referring to. There's plenty of space between the wealthiest country on the planet that throws away as much food as it eats making sure kids aren't hungry and parents aren't in debt to buy them school lunches and Utopia. The idea that it's this or fictional utopia is atrociously ignorant. I was actually quite serious that the U.S in it's position should be a borderline utopia. I think you misread what I wrote.
Haha, fair enough. I haven't really seen people use it non-pejoratively in a while.
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On January 13 2018 01:59 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2018 01:54 Stratos_speAr wrote:On January 13 2018 01:47 Sbrubbles wrote:On January 13 2018 01:44 bo1b wrote:On January 13 2018 01:43 Sbrubbles wrote:On January 13 2018 01:38 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2018 01:37 Sbrubbles wrote:On January 13 2018 01:24 bo1b wrote:On January 13 2018 01:22 Sbrubbles wrote:On January 13 2018 01:15 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Second, if you reduce the scale of the military's mission, you will see profound consequences for both the U.S. and the world as a whole.
Quite the overstatement, if I've ever seen one. We're actively seeing expansionist policy from China and Russia in their respective areas of interest, mind explaining whats an overstatement about what he said? Are you claiming China and Russia would be outright invading their neighbors if it wasn't the size of big brother USA's military spending? They both already are. Ukraine and Tibet. Then it sounds like the US is powerless in either case, in spite of wasting money on the world's biggest military. Interesting conclusion. That's me trying to avoid moderation for what it's worth. Hey, it's your money, not mine. Kind of funny that you say that when Navy medicine just spent quite a bit of money to send a team of Navy doctors up the Amazon on a humanitarian mission in Brazil to rural indigenous populations, assisting your military medicine in doing so. Meanwhile, American service members train for combat with faulty equipment, live in dilapidated barracks, and continue to have their benefits cut. Don't get me started on work hours, on the job health, mental health support, etc. I'm a foremost supporter of all of the aid we give countries around the world, but it's ironic and kind of sad to see how ignorant some people are to the wide variety of missions and geopolitical effects that our military has on the world. I appreciate it, though I would point out the same aid could have been given through a non-military group. Thanks again, though.
Do you understand the infrastructure and legal hurdles that need to be dealt with to do anything like that?
And you really think that some random civilian group could give your military medicine the training that we did? Do you know anything about the military?
There's a reason that the military is one of the leading humanitarian forces in this country.
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On January 13 2018 01:59 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2018 01:57 Mohdoo wrote:On January 13 2018 01:48 GreenHorizons wrote:
Flint STILL doesn't have clean water, Americans in Puerto Rico are going months without power and basic services, Kids in Baltimore had to skip school because temperatures were near freezing in their schools, we pay more for less in health care, education, and military (though with the military we pay sooo much more than anyone else it's hard to tell), yet veterans go hungry, without homes, and/or insane (they are a significant number of recent terrorist/mass shooters), but we're sooner to find another country to "democratize" than make sure the people we send are capable of reintegrating into the society we told them they were risking their lives for.
I know people like to make endless excuses, but in the wealthiest country on earth, that throws out nearly half of our consumable food, it's shamefully embarrassing that we have hungry children and parents in debt trying to pay for their school lunches.
Stop letting people tell you that there's no reasonable alternative to hungry kids, homeless mentally ill veterans, more people in prison than ANY other country, more than 1000 people killed by police every year, working poor, bankruptcy from healthcare, and so on. This highlights the issues with the US really well. In the end, it all comes down to inequality. There is too much inequality. One of the very unfortunate sides of inequality is how complacent the non-suffering can be. The people who aren't suffering from the things you are listing simply don't care enough. Too low a % of people in the "actual middle class" care about actually taking action to fix these things. It is really sad. Inequality also very strongly directly correlates with poor health outcomes, independent of other factors.
For the average person or also for people in the actual middle class? I end up spending more than the average person because I try to use the same preventative care schedules as countries with better healthcare. Insurance doesn't cover the same level of care as other countries, so I just spend out of pocket for a check here and a check there.
My thought is that countries that have tried to just overall increase health and decrease total costs have this well figured out. They do all the preventative screening they do because it prevents costs later. The US system is braindead, so we don't do that as much, but the option is there if you wanna pay. So I pay. It is kinda lame, but whatever. I guess my point is that the option is there for me, but it plain and simply isn't an option for my brother or my mom because they are distinctly lower-class. They can't afford it.
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On January 13 2018 02:02 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2018 01:55 bo1b wrote:On January 13 2018 01:54 Stratos_speAr wrote:On January 13 2018 01:47 Sbrubbles wrote:On January 13 2018 01:44 bo1b wrote:On January 13 2018 01:43 Sbrubbles wrote:On January 13 2018 01:38 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2018 01:37 Sbrubbles wrote:On January 13 2018 01:24 bo1b wrote:On January 13 2018 01:22 Sbrubbles wrote:
[quote]
Quite the overstatement, if I've ever seen one. We're actively seeing expansionist policy from China and Russia in their respective areas of interest, mind explaining whats an overstatement about what he said? Are you claiming China and Russia would be outright invading their neighbors if it wasn't the size of big brother USA's military spending? They both already are. Ukraine and Tibet. Then it sounds like the US is powerless in either case, in spite of wasting money on the world's biggest military. Interesting conclusion. That's me trying to avoid moderation for what it's worth. Hey, it's your money, not mine. Kind of funny that you say that when Navy medicine just spent quite a bit of money to send a team of Navy doctors up the Amazon on a humanitarian mission in Brazil to rural indigenous populations, assisting your military medicine in doing so. Meanwhile, American service members train for combat with faulty equipment, live in dilapidated barracks, and continue to have their benefits cut. I'm a foremost supporter of all of the aid we give countries around the world, but it's ironic and kind of sad to see how ignorant some people are to the wide variety of missions and geopolitical effects that our military has on the world. You've probably noticed but it drives me insane to see people denigrating the U.S when almost every nation on the planet is benefiting from them. On January 13 2018 01:54 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 13 2018 01:49 bo1b wrote:
I agree Gh, completely. It's a tragedy of the first order that America is not a borderline utopia, and that some of the problems it has, it really really has. This is even lower tier trash argument than I was referring to. There's plenty of space between the wealthiest country on the planet that throws away as much food as it eats making sure kids aren't hungry and parents aren't in debt to buy them school lunches and Utopia. The idea that it's this or fictional utopia is atrociously ignorant. I was actually quite serious that the U.S in it's position should be a borderline utopia. I think you misread what I wrote. Haha, fair enough. I haven't really seen people use it non-pejoratively in a while.
It's not quick enough but I genuinely believe those problems will be fixed in the near future, at least I hope they are. There's a really bright light shining down on them, and some of them don't even make sense given the political climate eg. homeless veterans. One side might as well be called the militarians, and the other side acts as if they should be called the humanitarians.
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The problem is, good health care is rooted in socialism, something your country is afraid of.
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Good health care is rooted in effective spending of money at a high enough level to maintain a certain level of care. The U.S spends more per person then any other nation, so really, I don't think they're too afraid of healthcare at all.
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On January 13 2018 02:02 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2018 01:59 Sbrubbles wrote:On January 13 2018 01:54 Stratos_speAr wrote:On January 13 2018 01:47 Sbrubbles wrote:On January 13 2018 01:44 bo1b wrote:On January 13 2018 01:43 Sbrubbles wrote:On January 13 2018 01:38 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2018 01:37 Sbrubbles wrote:On January 13 2018 01:24 bo1b wrote:On January 13 2018 01:22 Sbrubbles wrote:
[quote]
Quite the overstatement, if I've ever seen one. We're actively seeing expansionist policy from China and Russia in their respective areas of interest, mind explaining whats an overstatement about what he said? Are you claiming China and Russia would be outright invading their neighbors if it wasn't the size of big brother USA's military spending? They both already are. Ukraine and Tibet. Then it sounds like the US is powerless in either case, in spite of wasting money on the world's biggest military. Interesting conclusion. That's me trying to avoid moderation for what it's worth. Hey, it's your money, not mine. Kind of funny that you say that when Navy medicine just spent quite a bit of money to send a team of Navy doctors up the Amazon on a humanitarian mission in Brazil to rural indigenous populations, assisting your military medicine in doing so. Meanwhile, American service members train for combat with faulty equipment, live in dilapidated barracks, and continue to have their benefits cut. Don't get me started on work hours, on the job health, mental health support, etc. I'm a foremost supporter of all of the aid we give countries around the world, but it's ironic and kind of sad to see how ignorant some people are to the wide variety of missions and geopolitical effects that our military has on the world. I appreciate it, though I would point out the same aid could have been given through a non-military group. Thanks again, though. Do you understand the infrastructure and legal hurdles that need to be dealt with to do anything like that? And you really think that some random civilian group could give your military medicine the training that we did? Do you know anything about the military? There's a reason that the military is one of the leading humanitarian forces in this country.
I thought the point was the aid to the indigenous peoples, not the aid to the Brazillian military. True, only a military group can do the latter.
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On January 13 2018 02:09 bo1b wrote:
Good health care is rooted in effective spending of money at a high enough level to maintain a certain level of care. The U.S spends more per person then any other nation, so really, I don't think they're too afraid of healthcare at all.
The US is afraid of risk pooling ("I aint paying for you being sick") which is what is needed to keep health insurance affordable and they are afraid of intervening in a 'free' market which is how you keep prices low. (Free market doesn't work in healthcare because you often don't have a choice where to be treated for your sudden Stroke or other illness).
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On January 13 2018 02:06 Uldridge wrote:
The problem is, good health care is rooted in socialism, something your country is afraid of.
Isn’t socialism where someone works half as hard as me and we both receive equal pay and benefits?
Or is that capitalist propaganda bs
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I think that's true to an extent, but it's also wanting/having to pay a mandatory fee even when you never get sick. I don't think many people have this mentality in the US. It's just not your culture. At least, a large part of your country doesn't have that mentality.
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On January 13 2018 01:59 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2018 01:57 Mohdoo wrote:On January 13 2018 01:48 GreenHorizons wrote:
Flint STILL doesn't have clean water, Americans in Puerto Rico are going months without power and basic services, Kids in Baltimore had to skip school because temperatures were near freezing in their schools, we pay more for less in health care, education, and military (though with the military we pay sooo much more than anyone else it's hard to tell), yet veterans go hungry, without homes, and/or insane (they are a significant number of recent terrorist/mass shooters), but we're sooner to find another country to "democratize" than make sure the people we send are capable of reintegrating into the society we told them they were risking their lives for.
I know people like to make endless excuses, but in the wealthiest country on earth, that throws out nearly half of our consumable food, it's shamefully embarrassing that we have hungry children and parents in debt trying to pay for their school lunches.
Stop letting people tell you that there's no reasonable alternative to hungry kids, homeless mentally ill veterans, more people in prison than ANY other country, more than 1000 people killed by police every year, working poor, bankruptcy from healthcare, and so on. This highlights the issues with the US really well. In the end, it all comes down to inequality. There is too much inequality. One of the very unfortunate sides of inequality is how complacent the non-suffering can be. The people who aren't suffering from the things you are listing simply don't care enough. Too low a % of people in the "actual middle class" care about actually taking action to fix these things. It is really sad. Inequality also very strongly directly correlates with poor health outcomes, independent of other factors.
It's almost like having a market or any vestige thereof for distributing healthcare will necessarily make the rich live longer and better than the poor.
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Isn't that already the case everywhere anyway? I mean, rich people will always be able to afford the best health care possible, universal health care or not.
On January 13 2018 02:16 Emnjay808 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2018 02:06 Uldridge wrote:
The problem is, good health care is rooted in socialism, something your country is afraid of. Isn’t socialism where someone works half as hard as me and we both receive equal pay and benefits? Or is that capitalist propaganda bs
Hah, good one.
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