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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 9535

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-14 22:23:45
December 14 2017 22:17 GMT
#190681
if you access things where traffic is routed via US servers, you're also impacted.

an example is let's say you live in europe but use netflix. netflix has to cut some deal ($$$) with ISP's in the US in order for their content to be delivered at speeds where streaming works. that cost gets passed on to all consumers.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13927 Posts
December 14 2017 22:17 GMT
#190682
On December 15 2017 07:12 Simberto wrote:
Does that have an effect on people outside the US, or are you just fucking your own internet up?

Maybe? I'm pretty sure that the rest of the world uses the same pipes as the people in the US do and the other nations ISP's will be subject to the same shenanigans to interact with the US internet.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
December 14 2017 22:23 GMT
#190683
Could we all agree to call them tubes instead of pipes to conform to that 10 year old meme?
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
December 14 2017 22:27 GMT
#190684
On December 15 2017 06:49 Trainrunnef wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2017 04:44 Nevuk wrote:
If trump tried to switch parties he'd get rejected. Either in a primary or earlier.


Apologies if i wasn't clear. I dont believe he would get a second term, I was just musing that if the 2018 midterms shifts majority to dems (highly unlikely imo) Trump might adopt democratic ideals just to be on the winning team. As doodsmack mentioned though that would require him surviving impeachment and investigations.



He's got too big of an ego I think. Arnold did it in Cali but he was always interested in things like the environment and was pretty socially liberal. If there's one thing we've learned about Trump it's that he refuses to budge even when literally everyone thinks he's wrong including his supporters.
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-14 22:43:47
December 14 2017 22:42 GMT
#190685
Feel safe? I'm certain some were sent, underhanded of course, to European elements.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
December 14 2017 22:48 GMT
#190686
The TOW is a tripod mounted anti tank weapon that pretty useless for anything but shooting it at a hard target. I think my mini might be fine.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
December 14 2017 23:37 GMT
#190687
On December 15 2017 07:17 Sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2017 07:12 Simberto wrote:
Does that have an effect on people outside the US, or are you just fucking your own internet up?

Maybe? I'm pretty sure that the rest of the world uses the same pipes as the people in the US do and the other nations ISP's will be subject to the same shenanigans to interact with the US internet.

the question is if Netflix needs to rely on the US part of the internet to deliver their services to Europe and while everyone always says that you never know what routing you'll get I can't really see them pushing a lot of Data over the pond instead of pushing it out of say Frankfurt.
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
mozoku
Profile Joined September 2012
United States708 Posts
December 14 2017 23:58 GMT
#190688
I don't think that EU would be significantly affected as far as Netflix goes. Netflix uses AWS for pretty much everything afaik, and AWS certainly has data centers in Europe. At the very least, Netflix could probably just route EU traffic to EU AWS servers if it felt that net neutrality was going to noticeably affect European business. I'm not a Netflix engineer though, so maybe I'm missing something.

My guess is the effect on Europe might vary by company for reasons others have stated.
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-15 00:01:15
December 14 2017 23:59 GMT
#190689
People outside the US will, inevitably, be effected, but the degree depends on what kind of content you're trying to access.

Steam, Netflix, Battle.net, etc. will all have server farms around the globe. Sucks if you're in Canada (probably), less suckage if you're in Belgium.

Bigger problem if you're trying to provide content inside the US, and are broadcasting outside. So, Twitch streams from inside the US are probably going to be boned unless they pay a premium for data upload. If they do pay a premium, you won't see a difference. If they don't, you'll either get significant dropped quality or significant broadcast delay.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
December 15 2017 00:04 GMT
#190690
I sort of wonder how much of this will be on the back end, with the IPS forcing Google, Twitch and other services to pay for fast access and fast upload to different regions. Just be like credit and debit cards, push all the fees onto the services, rather than the consumers. Because that system is super effective, for the IPSs, but fucks over anyone small trying to make a living on the internet.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35146 Posts
December 15 2017 00:19 GMT
#190691
On December 15 2017 09:04 Plansix wrote:
I sort of wonder how much of this will be on the back end, with the IPS forcing Google, Twitch and other services to pay for fast access and fast upload to different regions. Just be like credit and debit cards, push all the fees onto the services, rather than the consumers. Because that system is super effective, for the IPSs, but fucks over anyone small trying to make a living on the internet.

Probably none of it as the dust settles, as the cost to the content provider gets pushed to the customers. This is how, I believe, that foreign users will get boned by NN going away - not including the yahoos in their own countries going "the USA did it, we can do it too!"
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-15 00:49:06
December 15 2017 00:47 GMT
#190692
In any other country with few exceptions, the government would have fallen by now, or the buildings would be ablaze by now.

As Congress races to finalize a landmark $1.4 trillion tax bill, key Republicans legislators directly overseeing the initiative could reap a personal windfall from provisions designed to reduce levies on so-called “pass-through” income, according to federal records reviewed by International Business Times. Those lawmakers — including U.S. House Speaker Paul Ryan — together have tens of millions of dollars invested in scores of real-estate related pass-through corporations and partnerships, collectively earning them millions of dollars of annual income that could be partially exempted from taxes, depending on how the final legislation is structured.

IBT reviewed the most recent personal financial disclosure records of 44 Republican lawmakers in the House and Senate leadership, as well as on the chambers’ committees that have overseen the tax bill. In all, 13 of those lawmakers have between $36 million and $163 million worth of ownership stakes in 40 real-estate or property-related partnerships, corporations and investment trusts. In 2016, those 13 legislators earned between $2.6 million and $16 million of annual income from those investments. Those kind of “pass-through” earnings — which experts say disproportionately flow to high-income households — could get new exemptions under the legislation that Congress is now finalizing.

The original House and Senate bills both aimed to reduce levies on income generated by partnerships that pass their income through to their investors. Both bills, though, included some limits on the tax breaks for pass-through income -- and the final legislation now being worked out in Washington could still eliminate, reduce or cap those tax cuts. Congressional negotiators are reportedly close to agreeing to a 20 percent deduction for pass-through income, with Republicans arguing the deductions would help small businesses.

If the GOP ends up applying a 20 percent deduction to all such passive real-estate income, those 13 legislators who have overseen the tax bill could be permitted to deduct a total of between $520,000 and $3.2 million from their taxable income each year, based on their 2016 filings.

"Congress is not just rigging the system for the idle rich in return for campaign contributions, but is made up in no small part of the type of rich people who want the system rigged,” Jeff Hauser, director of the Revolving Door Project, told IBT. “Too many things which sound like legally problematic conflicts of interest are often legal. The data illustrate why this rushed process is so corrupt. Before passing this bill, there should be time for constituents to force their representatives to justify why their conflicts of interest do not invalidate the broader tax cut bill."



For example, Tennessee Republican Rep. Diane Black serves on the conference committee as well as on the House Ways and Means Committee that oversaw the original House version of the tax bill. Black and her husband, the CEO of forensic science company Aegis Sciences Corp., co-own Ebon Falcon LLC, a real estate company that owns 12 properties including the Aegis building and several nearby properties, according to Rep. Black’s 2016 financial disclosure.

The properties, mostly in Nashville, appear to be commercial, and together they represent between $21.7 and $108 million in value and between $1.7 and $10.5 million in annual rental income. Black, who is Congress’ 11th-richest member, has a current net worth of $46 million, according to Roll Call.

Recently, IBT reported that Black’s former chief of staff has been lobbying the House on real estate issues this year on behalf of the National Association of Real Estate Investment Trusts.

Florida Republican Rep. Vern Buchanan is also on the Ways and Means Committee. Earlier this year, he sponsored standalone legislation to reduce the tax on pass-through entities, saying “it’s clearly time that Washington stopped punishing small businesses and started helping them.” Buchanan’s most recent financial disclosure forms show that he owns between $7 million and $32 million of investments in real-estate related partnerships. In 2016, he earned up to $2 million in annual income from those investments.

Family connections are also at play. For instance, Rep. Tom Reed (R-NY) — who sits on the House Ways and Means Committee that wrote the lower chamber’s version of the tax bill — is married to a partner at a real estate LLC, R&R Properties, LLC, from which he and his wife receive income of between $15,000 and $50,000 per year. Reed’s wife is also a partner at R&R Resource Recovery, LLC, the Reeds’ debt collection family business, which specializes in recovering medical debt. The business provides the Reeds with between $15,000 and $50,000 a year in income.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
December 15 2017 00:54 GMT
#190693
My fear is that when it breaks, it will break in such a fashion similar to the great depression. A cacophony of failures happening all at once so vast that we can't even assess all the failures until it is to late.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Lmui
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada6213 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-15 00:55:10
December 15 2017 00:55 GMT
#190694
On December 15 2017 09:04 Plansix wrote:
I sort of wonder how much of this will be on the back end, with the IPS forcing Google, Twitch and other services to pay for fast access and fast upload to different regions. Just be like credit and debit cards, push all the fees onto the services, rather than the consumers. Because that system is super effective, for the IPSs, but fucks over anyone small trying to make a living on the internet.


It depends.

For anyone in the USA on a provider, it'd obviously suck. For anyone outside the USA, it depends on how your traffic is routed. Many major websites use CDNs to mirror content for faster geographic access, and if you're in a non-US AS connecting to non-US AS content, it'd be fine. I'm doubtful this would affect anyone hosting on services like Cloudflare.

Even Netflix, their entire infrastructure is on AWS, and AWS has sites all over the globe:
http://docs.aws.amazon.com/general/latest/gr/rande.html

The problem is that some of the providers like AT&T and Verizon are Tier 1 networks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_1_network

That means that they are heavily responsible for much of the internet traffic going through North America. If there's no distinguishing between the tier 1 and last mile networks, I'd assume that a sizable backlash would occur from other countries where NN applies although I don't really know how much could be done about it.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23229 Posts
December 15 2017 01:15 GMT
#190695
On December 15 2017 03:21 Leporello wrote:
Giving billionaire children their full Royal-status and removing internet from public-domain. The last legacies of the shameless crap-pile known as the GOP. If you're going to sell-out America to Russia and a rapist, racist traitor, you might as well go out blazing. Big-ups to the Never Hillary Socialists, too.


Just a couple things.

I know everyone wants to blame Republicans for losing net neutrality, but who is it that put that shit bag former lawyer for Verizon on the FCC in the first place?

http://thehill.com/policy/technology/190857-obama-nominates-ajit-pai-to-fcc

If you don't already hate him enough...

In collusion, I mean conclusion... sorry, Freudian slip, my bad. Many people are still shell-shocked that I'm up here tonight [as chairman]. They ask themselves, "How on Earth did this happen?" Well, moments before tonight's dinner, somebody leaked a 14-year-old video that helps answer that question, and in all candor I can no longer hide from the truth.

The video then rolled. Here's a transcript:

Verizon executive: "As you know, the FCC is captured by industry. But we think it's not captured enough. We want to brainwash and groom a Verizon puppet to install as FCC chairman. Think Manchurian Candidate."

Ajit Pai: "That sounds awesome."

Verizon executive: "I know, right? There are only two problems. First, this is going to take 14 years to incubate. We need to find someone smart, young, ambitious, but dorky enough to throw the scent off."

Ajit Pai: "Hello."

Verizon executive: "So you will do it?"

Ajit Pai: "Absolutely. But you said there was another issue?"

Verizon executive: We need to find a Republican who can win the presidency in 2016 to appoint you FCC chairman. I think our best bet is an outsider, but I have no idea who that would be. If only somebody can give us a sign.


Source

Oh and you shouldn't be blaming the left that rejected Hillary for a several reasons, but one would be what would she have done differently regarding this?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-15 01:26:27
December 15 2017 01:25 GMT
#190696
Uh... Spelling aside this seems like a vain attempt to get someone to explain to him what it actually is.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21681 Posts
December 15 2017 01:28 GMT
#190697
On December 15 2017 10:15 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2017 03:21 Leporello wrote:
Giving billionaire children their full Royal-status and removing internet from public-domain. The last legacies of the shameless crap-pile known as the GOP. If you're going to sell-out America to Russia and a rapist, racist traitor, you might as well go out blazing. Big-ups to the Never Hillary Socialists, too.


Just a couple things.

I know everyone wants to blame Republicans for losing net neutrality, but who is it that put that shit bag former lawyer for Verizon on the FCC in the first place?

http://thehill.com/policy/technology/190857-obama-nominates-ajit-pai-to-fcc

If you don't already hate him enough...

Show nested quote +
In collusion, I mean conclusion... sorry, Freudian slip, my bad. Many people are still shell-shocked that I'm up here tonight [as chairman]. They ask themselves, "How on Earth did this happen?" Well, moments before tonight's dinner, somebody leaked a 14-year-old video that helps answer that question, and in all candor I can no longer hide from the truth.

The video then rolled. Here's a transcript:

Verizon executive: "As you know, the FCC is captured by industry. But we think it's not captured enough. We want to brainwash and groom a Verizon puppet to install as FCC chairman. Think Manchurian Candidate."

Ajit Pai: "That sounds awesome."

Verizon executive: "I know, right? There are only two problems. First, this is going to take 14 years to incubate. We need to find someone smart, young, ambitious, but dorky enough to throw the scent off."

Ajit Pai: "Hello."

Verizon executive: "So you will do it?"

Ajit Pai: "Absolutely. But you said there was another issue?"

Verizon executive: We need to find a Republican who can win the presidency in 2016 to appoint you FCC chairman. I think our best bet is an outsider, but I have no idea who that would be. If only somebody can give us a sign.


Source

Oh and you shouldn't be blaming the left that rejected Hillary for a several reasons, but one would be what would she have done differently regarding this?

A 5 second wikipedia check tells me that there are no more then 3 members of the same party allowed on the FCC and the members serve for 5 years (one new member every year). That means that if 3 Democrats are on the board and a Republicans term is up Obama would have had to appoint a Republican. (sure you can argue he could have made a better choice, but he could not have appointed a Democrat).

Trump got to replace Wheeler (a Democrat) so he could turn the committee from 3D 2R to 3R 2D.

What would Hillary have done? Appoint a 3e D instead of an R.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
December 15 2017 01:30 GMT
#190698
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
December 15 2017 01:37 GMT
#190699
Since we’re descending into corporatist hell, I can only wonder if SOPA Mk II is next on the agenda. Lamar Smith is still in office and still a scumbag, and companies still want shitty means by which to “protect their IP.” It seems reasonably likely.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Sbrubbles
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil5776 Posts
December 15 2017 01:42 GMT
#190700
I'm a bit ignorant on how the internet works, can someone explain how exactly my brazillian ISP might be affected by this? Does my BR ISP go through an US ISP whenever I want to access a server located in the US? Does my BR ISP have to pay up to the US ISP whenever I do this?
Bora Pain minha porra!
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