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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 9533

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-14 19:25:17
December 14 2017 19:23 GMT
#190641
Two or three Senate seats and 60 House seats. I expect Republicans to be thoroughly destroyed because they failed really failed to gain anything meaningful despite having all the winning cards. Any grace period Trump may have had is gone and it’s only downhill from here.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Trainrunnef
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States601 Posts
December 14 2017 19:27 GMT
#190642
On December 15 2017 04:23 LegalLord wrote:
Two or three Senate seats and 60 House seats. I expect Republicans to be thoroughly destroyed because they failed really failed to gain anything meaningful despite having all the winning cards. Any grace period Trump may have had is gone and it’s only downhill from here.



The only good outcome from Trump's obsession with winning is that he would likely switch teams if the dems took control of both chambers just to feel like he is in control.
I am, therefore I pee
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
December 14 2017 19:31 GMT
#190643
i predict a weird situation where dems have 49 seats in the senate and a supermajority in the house and susan collins or some other moderate republican becomes in effect the most powerful person in washington.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13991 Posts
December 14 2017 19:31 GMT
#190644
On December 15 2017 03:56 Plansix wrote:
Co worker just pointed out that this is the only way Americans learn. We need to touch the stove. The only way to assure good internet is to experience true shit internet.

You say that, and yet Trump still has an incredibly strong backing.
Chain 1 Arthalion Chain 2 Urgula Chain 3 Mululu Chain 4 Lukias
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
December 14 2017 19:34 GMT
#190645
On December 15 2017 04:27 Trainrunnef wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2017 04:23 LegalLord wrote:
Two or three Senate seats and 60 House seats. I expect Republicans to be thoroughly destroyed because they failed really failed to gain anything meaningful despite having all the winning cards. Any grace period Trump may have had is gone and it’s only downhill from here.



The only good outcome from Trump's obsession with winning is that he would likely switch teams if the dems took control of both chambers just to feel like he is in control.


An interesting theory, but you'd have to think there would be a lot of conflict as well including oversight investigations.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
December 14 2017 19:35 GMT
#190646
On December 15 2017 04:27 Trainrunnef wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2017 04:23 LegalLord wrote:
Two or three Senate seats and 60 House seats. I expect Republicans to be thoroughly destroyed because they failed really failed to gain anything meaningful despite having all the winning cards. Any grace period Trump may have had is gone and it’s only downhill from here.



The only good outcome from Trump's obsession with winning is that he would likely switch teams if the dems took control of both chambers just to feel like he is in control.

Which will lead to a Cruz vs Trump 2020 match. It’s foolproof!
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
December 14 2017 19:44 GMT
#190647
If trump tried to switch parties he'd get rejected. Either in a primary or earlier.
mozoku
Profile Joined September 2012
United States708 Posts
December 14 2017 19:44 GMT
#190648
On December 15 2017 04:01 kollin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2017 02:28 mozoku wrote:
On December 15 2017 02:07 IyMoon wrote:
On December 15 2017 02:06 mozoku wrote:
On December 15 2017 01:37 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Bravo.

I am 35 years old—the oldest millennial, the first millennial—and for a decade now, I’ve been waiting for adulthood to kick in. My rent consumes nearly half my income, I haven’t had a steady job since Pluto was a planet and my savings are dwindling faster than the ice caps the baby boomers melted.

We’ve all heard the statistics. More millennials live with their parents than with roommates. We are delaying partner-marrying and house-buying and kid-having for longer than any previous generation. And, according to The Olds, our problems are all our fault: We got the wrong degree. We spend money we don’t have on things we don’t need. We still haven’t learned to code. We killed cereal and department stores and golf and napkins and lunch. Mention “millennial” to anyone over 40 and the word “entitlement” will come back at you within seconds, our own intergenerational game of Marco Polo.

This is what it feels like to be young now. Not only are we screwed, but we have to listen to lectures about our laziness and our participation trophies from the people who screwed us.

But generalizations about millennials, like those about any other arbitrarily defined group of 75 million people, fall apart under the slightest scrutiny. Contrary to the cliché, the vast majority of millennials did not go to college, do not work as baristas and cannot lean on their parents for help. Every stereotype of our generation applies only to the tiniest, richest, whitest sliver of young people. And the circumstances we live in are more dire than most people realize.

What is different about us as individuals compared to previous generations is minor. What is different about the world around us is profound. Salaries have stagnated and entire sectors have cratered. At the same time, the cost of every prerequisite of a secure existence—education, housing and health care—has inflated into the stratosphere. From job security to the social safety net, all the structures that insulate us from ruin are eroding. And the opportunities leading to a middle-class life—the ones that boomers lucked into—are being lifted out of our reach. Add it all up and it’s no surprise that we’re the first generation in modern history to end up poorer than our parents.

This is why the touchstone experience of millennials, the thing that truly defines us, is not helicopter parenting or unpaid internships or Pokémon Go. It is uncertainty. “Some days I breathe and it feels like something is about to burst out of my chest,” says Jimmi Matsinger. “I’m 25 and I’m still in the same place I was when I earned minimum wage.” Four days a week she works at a dental office, Fridays she nannies, weekends she babysits. And still she couldn’t keep up with her rent, car lease and student loans. Earlier this year she had to borrow money to file for bankruptcy. I heard the same walls-closing-in anxiety from millennials around the country and across the income scale, from cashiers in Detroit to nurses in Seattle.

It’s tempting to look at the recession as the cause of all this, the Great Fuckening from which we are still waiting to recover. But what we are living through now, and what the recession merely accelerated, is a historic convergence of economic maladies, many of them decades in the making. Decision by decision, the economy has turned into a young people-screwing machine. And unless something changes, our calamity is going to become America’s.


Source

Good Lord. I'm not sure he can pander more to his audience if he was assigned to (which he probably was).


He summed up life for millions of people pretty much perfectly, but sure I guess you could say he was pandering

It's hard to take the guy seriously when he lists the cost of healthcare as a major problem holding back young people. Of all groups, youngest people are the least affected by healthcare costs. And if you're actually broke and can't afford your ER bill, hospitals often forgive it anyway.

Or when he talks about the "eroding" social safety net, even though it was expanded under Obama and has been untouched under Trump.

Housing costs have only risen significant faster than its historical average in certain urban areas. If you have a low-paying job because you graduated with a $90k art history degree and insist on living in San Fransisco or Seattle, I have little sympathy for you.

Unemployment is 4.1% and the economy is the strongest it's been since the 90s. If you are college-educated and can't find more than a minimum wage job in this economy, the issue likely has more to do with you that it does with society.

It's a HuffPost editorial article ffs. What do you expect? The honest truth?

The social state has been eroded since the 80s, and that is a big reason for the intergenerational wealth gap between boomers and millennial.

Really? What parts of the social state are you referring to?

How are you concluding that it's causing the intergenerational wealth gap? Can you tell me more about this so-called wealth gap?

I have a feeling that 20-35 year olds have had close to zero median wealth both in the 70s and today, so this assertion interests me greatly. Unless you're making the braindead argument that older people are wealthier and that's somehow a societal problem we need to resolve.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-14 19:49:55
December 14 2017 19:47 GMT
#190649
On December 15 2017 04:31 Cricketer12 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2017 03:56 Plansix wrote:
Co worker just pointed out that this is the only way Americans learn. We need to touch the stove. The only way to assure good internet is to experience true shit internet.

You say that, and yet Trump still has an incredibly strong backing.

By whom? A recent poll of Fox News viewers showed only 53% approved of him. He is deeply unpopular.

Edit: the increase in wealth disparity is economic fact. The top 1% of the county controlled like 8% of national wealth in the 1980. Now it's like 20% and climbing. We are not a French Revolution levels, but we are making a run for the crown.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
December 14 2017 19:50 GMT
#190650
On December 15 2017 04:21 IyMoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2017 04:17 Nevuk wrote:
Poll: How many seats will Democrats gain in the house

90+ (3)
 
25%

20-30 (3)
 
25%

40-50 (2)
 
17%

0-10 (1)
 
8%

60-70 (1)
 
8%

80-90 (1)
 
8%

-5 to -10 (1)
 
8%

10-20 (0)
 
0%

-10 or more (0)
 
0%

12 total votes

Your vote: How many seats will Democrats gain in the house

(Vote): 0-10
(Vote): 10-20
(Vote): 20-30
(Vote): 40-50
(Vote): 60-70
(Vote): 80-90
(Vote): 90+
(Vote): -5 to -10
(Vote): -10 or more



Poll: Senate seats gained by Democrats in 2018 midterms?

1-2 (5)
 
42%

-2 to 0 (4)
 
33%

5-6 (3)
 
25%

-5 to -10 (0)
 
0%

3-4 (0)
 
0%

-3/-4 (0)
 
0%

-10+ (0)
 
0%

7+ (0)
 
0%

12 total votes

Your vote: Senate seats gained by Democrats in 2018 midterms?

(Vote): -5 to -10
(Vote): 1-2
(Vote): 3-4
(Vote): 5-6
(Vote): -2 to 0
(Vote): -3/-4
(Vote): -10+
(Vote): 7+



I think it is late enough for a prediction poll. (I didn't want to add too many options to the house one)


The map is REALLY stacked against the dems. If we are going on both sides having non bat shit crazy people running I give it to the Rs for the senate

No sane person gets past a GOP primary these days. That's a big part of their problem.

It doesn't matter how good your map is when your only accomplishments are passing something with ~25% approval rating at best (tax bill) and letting the FCC do things with a 85% disapproval (net neutrality).
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
December 14 2017 19:55 GMT
#190651

Also this was ajit pai's final appeal before the vote. He has a pizzagate conspiracist dancing a 5 year old meme with him as proof net neutrality is bad. Every republican who voted to confirm him gets to defend this shit for the next year. Oh, and the vote for Betsy Devos.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
December 14 2017 20:01 GMT
#190652
Russian trolls, pedophiles, conspiracy theorists and administrators repealing pro-consumer legislation. Seriously please explain to me again why people vote for the Republican party. It's stuff straight out of a comic book at this point, I don't get it
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22132 Posts
December 14 2017 20:07 GMT
#190653
On December 15 2017 05:01 Nyxisto wrote:
Russian trolls, pedophiles, conspiracy theorists and administrators repealing pro-consumer legislation. Seriously please explain to me again why people vote for the Republican party. It's stuff straight out of a comic book at this point, I don't get it

Indoctrination.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
December 14 2017 20:10 GMT
#190654
On December 15 2017 05:01 Nyxisto wrote:
Russian trolls, pedophiles, conspiracy theorists and administrators repealing pro-consumer legislation. Seriously please explain to me again why people vote for the Republican party. It's stuff straight out of a comic book at this point, I don't get it

Convincing people that true freedom is making the conscious decision to fuck yourself over.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-14 20:12:02
December 14 2017 20:11 GMT
#190655
On December 15 2017 05:01 Nyxisto wrote:
Russian trolls, pedophiles, conspiracy theorists and administrators repealing pro-consumer legislation. Seriously please explain to me again why people vote for the Republican party. It's stuff straight out of a comic book at this point, I don't get it

Because the other party’s candidate mishandled classified documents via email.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
December 14 2017 20:13 GMT
#190656
On December 15 2017 05:11 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2017 05:01 Nyxisto wrote:
Russian trolls, pedophiles, conspiracy theorists and administrators repealing pro-consumer legislation. Seriously please explain to me again why people vote for the Republican party. It's stuff straight out of a comic book at this point, I don't get it

Because the other party’s candidate mishandled classified documents via email.

Something that the current administration currently doing.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
December 14 2017 20:15 GMT
#190657
On December 15 2017 05:11 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2017 05:01 Nyxisto wrote:
Russian trolls, pedophiles, conspiracy theorists and administrators repealing pro-consumer legislation. Seriously please explain to me again why people vote for the Republican party. It's stuff straight out of a comic book at this point, I don't get it

Because the other party’s candidate mishandled classified documents via email.

Clearly that outweighs everything we're seeing this administration doing, which by the way, also includes mishandling of e-mails. Or did you miss that?
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14104 Posts
December 14 2017 20:22 GMT
#190658
On December 15 2017 05:15 NewSunshine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2017 05:11 LegalLord wrote:
On December 15 2017 05:01 Nyxisto wrote:
Russian trolls, pedophiles, conspiracy theorists and administrators repealing pro-consumer legislation. Seriously please explain to me again why people vote for the Republican party. It's stuff straight out of a comic book at this point, I don't get it

Because the other party’s candidate mishandled classified documents via email.

Clearly that outweighs everything we're seeing this administration doing, which by the way, also includes mishandling of e-mails. Or did you miss that?

Its not a zero sum argument. When one group loses credability it doens't raise the credability of another. expecialy when group a is terrible at solving those credability issues and two isn't even trying to argue the issue while the first is.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-14 20:29:37
December 14 2017 20:28 GMT
#190659
On December 15 2017 05:22 Sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2017 05:15 NewSunshine wrote:
On December 15 2017 05:11 LegalLord wrote:
On December 15 2017 05:01 Nyxisto wrote:
Russian trolls, pedophiles, conspiracy theorists and administrators repealing pro-consumer legislation. Seriously please explain to me again why people vote for the Republican party. It's stuff straight out of a comic book at this point, I don't get it

Because the other party’s candidate mishandled classified documents via email.

Clearly that outweighs everything we're seeing this administration doing, which by the way, also includes mishandling of e-mails. Or did you miss that?

Its not a zero sum argument. When one group loses credability it doens't raise the credability of another. expecialy when group a is terrible at solving those credability issues and two isn't even trying to argue the issue while the first is.

No, it doesn't make the other group more credible, but when you learn that the first group is a metric shitload less credible, but continue talking about the other group, like it's still the foremost thing we need to be concerned with, it fucking stinks. "But Hillary's emails" has long been put to bed, except when LegalLord feels he has to balance the conversation with beaten-dead right-wing propaganda. It's not a legitimate deflection.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
December 14 2017 20:28 GMT
#190660
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
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