|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On December 03 2017 02:04 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2017 01:51 kollin wrote:On December 03 2017 01:46 Sermokala wrote:On December 03 2017 01:35 xDaunt wrote:
The most important and impactful feature of the tax bill is the slashing of corporate tax rates, which needs to happen. Most everything else is a comparative rounding error. All of the hysteria surrounding this bill is grossly unwarranted. But xdaunt if they don't pass a budget at all for the ten years the worst thing that will happen is that the debt will go up by a whole trillion dollars. That means america will be a third world nation and civil war will happen. Don't forget great depression guaranteed if they don't pass a new budget for the next few years for some reason. Is it not 1.5 trillion to the budget deficit, which is effectively tripling it? I'm reading it as "Will add ~1.5 trillion to the deficit by 2027" not the debt as well. https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/115th-congress-2017-2018/costestimate/reconciliationrecommendationssfc.pdfEDIT: The point is to use the deficit to justify social cuts anyway. Create the crisis and demand we solve it their way.
The arrogance of right-wingers oblivious to reality never, ever ceases to amaze. Though of course you're right.
|
Remind me how long the ACA was up for scrutiny again? How many hearings were had, how much analysis was done, how many changes were made because Republicans didn't want it to pass unabated?
It's a complete disgrace. This thing was slapped together as a slap in the face, scribbled on throughout the day by lobbyists, and passed in the middle of the night so that nobody would notice. Pardon me if I don't feel terribly inspired by our GOP representatives right now.
|
United States43203 Posts
We'll see what emerges from House/Senate reconciliation but as it stands the tax exempted income for poor families is being reduced (despite what Danglars says) and the lowest tax bracket is being raised from 10% to 12%. So if you're poor and have kids then more of your income is being taxed, and at a 20% higher rate.
Taxing noncash employee benefits as if they were cash is pretty fucked up too. A tax bill on money you never actually got. Most of you probably get employer paid/subsidized health insurance, or at the very least have your contributions taken out pre-tax. It'd be like if they started calling all of that income, and charged you your marginal tax rate on it.
Also there's some weird stuff like raising the child tax credit limits so people in the richest 10% of families can get it, and taxing university scholarship funds.
It's all just fucked up.
|
On December 03 2017 01:52 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2017 01:35 xDaunt wrote:
The most important and impactful feature of the tax bill is the slashing of corporate tax rates, which needs to happen. Most everything else is a comparative rounding error. All of the hysteria surrounding this bill is grossly unwarranted. And why does the slashing of corporate tax rate need to happen? Or do you just say that because of your "uhm a republican, eye need dis!" mentality? Or do you have a reasonable and for once FACTUAL reason for saying this?
Taxes should be one of the most sterile and boring policy issues to disagree about, one of the least potentially offensive. You should not operate from an attitude that there's not a reasonable way for someone to disagree with your side, or worse with he status quo, about something so basic.
|
On December 03 2017 02:05 Nevuk wrote:
Did any corporation actually pay the full tax rate anyways?
no.
the effective rate is much lower than the nominal rate; just how much lower is disputed. maybe half as much or thereabouts.
there's of course bound to be some corp somewhere paying something close to the full rate.
|
On December 03 2017 02:18 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2017 01:52 hunts wrote:On December 03 2017 01:35 xDaunt wrote:
The most important and impactful feature of the tax bill is the slashing of corporate tax rates, which needs to happen. Most everything else is a comparative rounding error. All of the hysteria surrounding this bill is grossly unwarranted. And why does the slashing of corporate tax rate need to happen? Or do you just say that because of your "uhm a republican, eye need dis!" mentality? Or do you have a reasonable and for once FACTUAL reason for saying this? Taxes should be one of the most sterile and boring policy issues to disagree about, one of the least potentially offensive. You should not operate from an attitude that there's not a reasonable way for someone to disagree with your side, or worse with he status quo, about something so basic.
and he did not operate from such an attitude, so while your point is sound, i'm not seeing the relevance of it.
|
United States43203 Posts
A lot of the criticism of things like Facebook tax dodging is simply because they moved the tax burden to the executives through overpaying them. The executives then paid income tax and so the IRS still got its due. But you wouldn't realize that from the news reported.
|
|
|
I too lie when I have nothing to hide.
|
trump complaining about people lying, ahahahahaha.
|
On December 03 2017 03:14 Excludos wrote:I too lie when I have nothing to hide.
To be fair Flynn and Trump are both potentially dumb enough to lie when they have nothing to hide. It's basically a character trait for them. Flynn especially is like Manafort, but far far dumber.
Doubt they did here though.
|
On December 03 2017 02:04 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2017 01:51 kollin wrote:On December 03 2017 01:46 Sermokala wrote:On December 03 2017 01:35 xDaunt wrote:
The most important and impactful feature of the tax bill is the slashing of corporate tax rates, which needs to happen. Most everything else is a comparative rounding error. All of the hysteria surrounding this bill is grossly unwarranted. But xdaunt if they don't pass a budget at all for the ten years the worst thing that will happen is that the debt will go up by a whole trillion dollars. That means america will be a third world nation and civil war will happen. Don't forget great depression guaranteed if they don't pass a new budget for the next few years for some reason. Is it not 1.5 trillion to the budget deficit, which is effectively tripling it? I'm reading it as "Will add ~1.5 trillion to the deficit by 2027" not the debt as well. https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/115th-congress-2017-2018/costestimate/reconciliationrecommendationssfc.pdfEDIT: The point is to use the deficit to justify social cuts anyway. Create the crisis and demand we solve it their way. Then the next Bill Clinton is supposed to oblige them again.
It's to the debt. Adding 1.4t to the deficit would be insane. The macro impact of the bill really us not as large as people make it.
|
The saddest part is that his voters will take him at his word.
I will give him credit though, this was a pretty coherently written tweet. I suspect it wasn't written by him.
|
On December 03 2017 01:52 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2017 01:35 xDaunt wrote:
The most important and impactful feature of the tax bill is the slashing of corporate tax rates, which needs to happen. Most everything else is a comparative rounding error. All of the hysteria surrounding this bill is grossly unwarranted. And why does the slashing of corporate tax rate need to happen? Or do you just say that because of your "uhm a republican, eye need dis!" mentality? Or do you have a reasonable and for once FACTUAL reason for saying this?
The treatment of corporate taxes in the bill isn't as simple as just cutting the tax rate, though that's part of it. The current tax system is 30 years old, which means it was designed for a different economy and corporations have had 30 years to figure out how to play around it. Consequently, the status quo provides (and corporations take advantage of) all sorts of backwards incentives not to invest in the US and to shift intellectual property overseas.
Saying "we're at full employment" is sort of a red herring. More investment opportunities still means a more dynamic economy because workers have more choices in employment opportunities, and the employers with the most productive opportunities can pay more to attract workers.
|
"...he lied to the Vice President AND THE FBI"
He literally just said that he knew Flynn had lied to the FBI BEFORE he fired him. Hence the pressure on comey to let it go. Holy shit. Lawyers will have a field day with this tweet when the time comes.
|
Sooo, they pulled their usual great heist. “A party that exploit white resentment to get elected by people they screw over in order to fill the pockets of a class of extremely wealthy donors” sums up as well as ever the GOP. Now you would have thought Frankenstein’s monster had escaped his creator when white resentment became an end in itself and got elected, but apparently Trump has no problem being both a convinced populist and a cleptocrat.
I guess rural america will keep getting shittier, people will keep blaming the liberal elite and not the fuckers who took their healthcare and reversed robin hood them and will keep voting for cynical clowns that will tell them it’s all because of the muslims and the mexicans.
Human misery.
|
|
|
Lol exactly what I just said 😂
|
On December 03 2017 04:00 mozoku wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2017 01:52 hunts wrote:On December 03 2017 01:35 xDaunt wrote:
The most important and impactful feature of the tax bill is the slashing of corporate tax rates, which needs to happen. Most everything else is a comparative rounding error. All of the hysteria surrounding this bill is grossly unwarranted. And why does the slashing of corporate tax rate need to happen? Or do you just say that because of your "uhm a republican, eye need dis!" mentality? Or do you have a reasonable and for once FACTUAL reason for saying this? The treatment of corporate taxes in the bill isn't as simple as just cutting the tax rate, though that's part of it. The current tax system is 30 years old, which means it was designed for a different economy and corporations have had 30 years to figure out how to play around it. Consequently, the status quo provides (and corporations take advantage of) all sorts of backwards incentives not to invest in the US and to shift intellectual property overseas. Saying "we're at full employment" is sort of a red herring. More investment opportunities still means a more dynamic economy because workers have more choices in employment opportunities, and the employers with the most productive opportunities can pay more to attract workers.
You have it fundamentally backward. Investment is totally driven by profitability. A short supply of labor increases labor costs and hurts profitability. There won't simply be "more employment opportunities" because nobody invests in something without a clear idea of whether it will be profitable. This is why your "I'm a statistics expert and I am using simple logic to explain how capitalism works" (while accusing everyone else, mind you, of being ideologically brainwashed) is so ironic. You need to update your analytical ideas toolbox.
The irony is doubled because your rationale for the corporate tax overhaul is that it is 30 years old and "outdated" but you still believe that capitalism fundamentally operates in the same way as it did 150 years ago. Arguably, 300 years ago, when America had a labor shortage, a vast frontier with untapped natural resources, and established and growing(!) markets to sell new products, your argument might have had some truth in it. Now you are just operating on blind faith, without even the benefit of having read and synthesized the fundamental insights (Adam Smith, Hayek, etc.) from which your "logical" arguments derive.
As an aside, I have no idea what your reference to intellectual property is even about. Intellectual property is immaterial. It can't be "shifted" anywhere. Only legitimated. And by all accounts the American intellectual property regime is the broadest and most expansive in the world.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
