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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 9000

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9643 Posts
October 15 2017 22:56 GMT
#179981
the two are easy to relate to each other, but one apologized for his actions and the other is proud of them.
mierin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4943 Posts
October 16 2017 00:17 GMT
#179982
Capitalism seems to be a double edged sword. Without it, we wouldn't have gone to the moon, accomplished what we've accomplished etc. but all the people with the money make the rules, and all the rules are made to prop up people with all the money. Who's going to change that?
JD, Stork, Calm, Hyuk Fighting!
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9064 Posts
October 16 2017 00:37 GMT
#179983
The Pirate King?
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
October 16 2017 00:53 GMT
#179984
On October 16 2017 09:17 mierin wrote:
Capitalism seems to be a double edged sword. Without it, we wouldn't have gone to the moon, accomplished what we've accomplished etc. but all the people with the money make the rules, and all the rules are made to prop up people with all the money. Who's going to change that?

that's a rather broad question for the US politics thread; is there something specific you're responding to? or just more generally interested in how the solution process would work?
do you want input, or did you just mostly want to comment?
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-16 01:25:00
October 16 2017 01:24 GMT
#179985


“[Trump] is literally setting the entire health care system on fire — just because the president is upset that the United States Congress won’t pass a repeal bill that is supported by 17 percent of the American public… The fact of the matter is the president is trying to sabotage the american health care system, trying to has put a gun to the head of our constituents by taking away their health care or raising their costs in order to force us to repeal a bill that the American public doesn’t want us to repeal.”

Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France8182 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-16 01:35:18
October 16 2017 01:34 GMT
#179986
On October 16 2017 10:24 Nevuk wrote:
https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/919701628344782849

Show nested quote +
“[Trump] is literally setting the entire health care system on fire — just because the president is upset that the United States Congress won’t pass a repeal bill that is supported by 17 percent of the American public… The fact of the matter is the president is trying to sabotage the american health care system, trying to has put a gun to the head of our constituents by taking away their health care or raising their costs in order to force us to repeal a bill that the American public doesn’t want us to repeal.”


The most tragic is that he probably doesn't even start to understand what it's about or what the ACA actually does, let alone have an idea of how to replace it. It's just pure spite because it bears the name of his predecessor.

Sad!!!
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-16 02:25:32
October 16 2017 02:25 GMT
#179987
On October 16 2017 10:34 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 16 2017 10:24 Nevuk wrote:
https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/919701628344782849

“[Trump] is literally setting the entire health care system on fire — just because the president is upset that the United States Congress won’t pass a repeal bill that is supported by 17 percent of the American public… The fact of the matter is the president is trying to sabotage the american health care system, trying to has put a gun to the head of our constituents by taking away their health care or raising their costs in order to force us to repeal a bill that the American public doesn’t want us to repeal.”


The most tragic is that he probably doesn't even start to understand what it's about or what the ACA actually does, let alone have an idea of how to replace it. It's just pure spite because it bears the name of his predecessor.

Sad!!!


I mean, the man believes premiums are 15 dollars a month. It's impossible for him to understand what the ACA does in light of that.

Insurance is, you're 20 years old, you just graduated from college, and you start paying $15 a month for the rest of your life and by the time you're 70, and you really need it, you're still paying the same amount and that's really insurance.
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
October 16 2017 04:32 GMT
#179988
Maybe when he was 20, it was $15 a month?
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
October 16 2017 04:40 GMT
#179989
That was also like 50 years ago. Sounds like another delirious, out of touch rant about how our generation has all the same opportunities as theirs. I get hit with enough of that shit as it is and it's frustrating.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
October 16 2017 04:42 GMT
#179990
"When I was young I got a job during the summer to pay for college!"
Zambrah
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States7393 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-16 05:55:43
October 16 2017 05:55 GMT
#179991
On October 16 2017 13:42 Gahlo wrote:
"When I was young I got a job during the summer to pay for college!"


Don't forget, they did it up hill both ways in the snow, too!
Incremental change is the Democrat version of Trickle Down economics.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 16 2017 10:40 GMT
#179992


A fascinating read into how much sway drug companies really have.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18869 Posts
October 16 2017 13:56 GMT
#179993
President Trump once joked that Vice President Mike Pence “wants to hang” all gay people, The New Yorker reported Monday.

The publication also reports that Trump has mocked Pence for his views opposing abortion and LGBTQ rights.

Trump jabbed at Pence after a legal scholar told the pair that if the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, many states would probably legalize abortion.

“You see?” Trump reportedly said to Pence. “You’ve wasted all this time and energy on it, and it’s not going to end abortion anyway.”

And when the meeting began to focus on gay rights, Trump reportedly pointed to Pence, joking, “Don’t ask that guy — he wants to hang them all!”

One Trump campaign staffer also told The New Yorker that Trump used to ask people leaving meetings with Pence, “Did Mike make you pray?"

One source said the president likes to "let Pence know who's boss," according to the report.

Pence has repeatedly clashed with the LGBTQ community throughout his political career, including his support of an amendment in 2006 that would have defined marriage as being between a man and a woman. He also said at the time that legalizing gay marriage would cause a “societal collapse.”

The vice president has become the target of LGBTQ protests since moving to D.C., including a "queer dance party" outside his former residence in January.

Trump has had his own issues with the LGBTQ community after issuing a presidential memo instructing the Defense Department to stop accepting transgender people who want to enlist in the military.


Source
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46390 Posts
October 16 2017 14:11 GMT
#179994
Joke: Pence wants to hang all gay people.
Reality: Pence wants to electrocute them.

Same difference.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9643 Posts
October 16 2017 14:25 GMT
#179995
yea i mean if it didn’t have merit it would be more than just a funny news story. but since he can’t defend himself from the ‘joke’ without the reality of his homophobia being plastered across the world, it’ll just stay a sad blip in the news.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 16 2017 14:42 GMT
#179996
For most of his adult life, Michael Sweetin has bounced between homes – his mother’s, his brother’s, his sister’s. Once, he slept on the street for two nights. When things are particularly desperate, Sweetin, now 33 and living in Los Angeles, donates plasma twice a week for $75. “Your body changes, you feel sick and weak,” he said.

Like millions of other low-income Americans, Sweetin is eligible for a rental-subsidy voucher from the federal government. Sweetin applied for one, and was waitlisted until one of the limited number of vouchers becomes available.

And so he has waited. For over a decade.

Today, more Angelenos will have the chance to join the interminable waitlist, which is opening for the first time in a remarkable 13 years – but only for two weeks.

In that time, the city expects to receive 600,000 applications for vouchers. Yet there are just 20,000 spots on the new waitlist – the lucky 3.3% will be chosen by lottery, and will then have to start waiting themselves.

For people like Sweetin, whose mother put his name on the waitlist as soon as he turned 18, in the early 2000s, it’s obvious that the program isn’t working for the vast majority of people who need it. He still had not received a housing voucher after 15 years.

Rental-subsidy vouchers – known as Section 8 vouchers for the part of the law that authorized them – are the government’s primary way of helping low-income Americans pay rent, and are used by 2.2 million families. They generally cover any rental costs that exceed 30% of the renter’s income.

Yet studies have shown that only one in four Americans who need housing assistance actually receive it. And administrators acknowledge that the Section 8 system is not exactly working the way it should.

“Well, of course it’s frustrating,” said Douglas Guthrie, president of the Housing Authority of the City of Los Angeles (HACLA). “Any way you look at this, we’re going to be extremely limited [in resources], with a growing affordable housing need.”

The problem isn’t unique to Los Angeles. Local housing agencies across the country have similar problems, with need far outstripping supply, said Nan Roman, president of the National Alliance to End Homelessness. Waitlists in New York have been closed since 2009 and in Chicago since 2014. When Baltimore opened its waitlist for the first time in a decade, in 2015, officials there warned that the list would expire after six years, meaning that some of the 25,000 signups might end up waiting years only to receive nothing.

Section 8 “addresses this kind of systemic gap between low incomes and high rents – it ends homelessness,” Roman said. “The major problem we see with the Section 8 program is that there’s not enough Section 8.”

The housing voucher program was created in 1974, and marked a shift away from building and managing public housing developments, which were unappealing to many, and towards helping tenants who were struggling with rent that was eating up almost all – if not all – of their paychecks. It was also seen as a way to help foster socioeconomic and racial integration, because voucher holders could choose where they lived.

But, almost since its inception, the housing voucher program has been woefully underfunded. And it is not a favorite of the Trump administration, which sought cuts that would have resulted in more than 250,000 fewer vouchers.

“Section 8 is the main tool we have for rental affordability,” said Jerry Jones, public policy director at the Inner City Law Center, a legal clinic and advocacy group in Skid Row. “So what’s the plan? There’s nothing coming out of Washington.”

In the Los Angeles region, one of the consequences of the rental-voucher shortage is clear: soaring homelessness. Around 55,000 people are homeless on any one night, a record for the city.

Bill Przylucki, executive director of a Santa Monica advocacy group called POWER, said that even once a person gets a voucher, the battle’s not over. Because then, they have to find a landlord who will agree to take the voucher. And many of them won’t, he said. A study of rental units in Austin, Texas, for instance, found that the vast majority were not accessible to voucher-holders.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 16 2017 14:52 GMT
#179997
Section 8 vouchers are like gold and needed more than ever. If we are not going to tamp down on the rising housing costs, the only way people can exist is with subsidized housing. But sadly, you also get communities that actively oppose section 8 renters from entering their community, seeing them as free loaders.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9643 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-16 15:05:55
October 16 2017 15:03 GMT
#179998
so i’m gonna put my ignorant opinion out there and maybe y’all can straighten me out again. i don’t have anything against communities that oppose section 8 housing. if people want to pay a premium to avoid having neighbors in poverty then i get it. poverty often brings crime, right?

this is, i think, hypocrisy given my feelings against gentrification. because i can’t possibly conceive of a solution that allows for both, but i’m also no genius.

i’m using ‘poverty’ pretty freely here, of that much at least i am aware. but i think when speaking so generally of section 8 housing it’s still a reality for a significant portion of it.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-16 15:10:18
October 16 2017 15:08 GMT
#179999
On October 17 2017 00:03 brian wrote:
so i’m gonna put my ignorant opinion out there and maybe y’all can straighten me out again. i don’t have anything against communities that oppose section 8 housing. if people want to pay a premium to avoid having neighbors in poverty then i get it. poverty often brings crime, right?

this is, i think, hypocrisy given my feelings against gentrification. because i can’t possibly conceive of a solution that allows for both, but i’m also no genius.

i’m using ‘poverty’ pretty freely here, of that much at least i am aware. but i think when speaking so generally of section 8 housing it’s still a reality for a significant portion of it.

how do you know they're paying a premium, rather than simply prohibiting it?
The problem is when there's no place for the poor to get housing at all. it's not like one community prohibits it but there's another nearby where they can easily get it (and still be in range to get to their jobs), it's more like there's nowhere to go.
{i'm rather sick right now, so hard to focus and thinking may be a bit off}

NIMBY-ism often leads to there being NO place at all.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9643 Posts
October 16 2017 15:16 GMT
#180000
On October 17 2017 00:08 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2017 00:03 brian wrote:
so i’m gonna put my ignorant opinion out there and maybe y’all can straighten me out again. i don’t have anything against communities that oppose section 8 housing. if people want to pay a premium to avoid having neighbors in poverty then i get it. poverty often brings crime, right?

this is, i think, hypocrisy given my feelings against gentrification. because i can’t possibly conceive of a solution that allows for both, but i’m also no genius.

i’m using ‘poverty’ pretty freely here, of that much at least i am aware. but i think when speaking so generally of section 8 housing it’s still a reality for a significant portion of it.

how do you know they're paying a premium, rather than simply prohibiting it?
The problem is when there's no place for the poor to get housing at all. it's not like one community prohibits it but there's another nearby where they can easily get it (and still be in range to get to their jobs), it's more like there's nowhere to go.
{i'm rather sick right now, so hard to focus and thinking may be a bit off}

NIMBY-ism often leads to there being NO place at all.


my expectation is that a prohibition would lead to the increased price, capitalism and whatnot. and to that end, my expectation is also that not all people would care for the price point and choose a community that does allow for subsidized housing.

your last point about NIMBY is definitely well taken but i’m not totally convinced of it due to the above. if i could afford a community that doesn’t have section 8 housing, and that was something i cared about, then yea, that’s causing the problem you’re pointing out for sure. but i’m thinking some people can’t, and don’t care one way or the other, which would solve this problem.

i mean i guess the reality of the situation is in that article though, in that there are so many people still waiting that my expectations are just wrong.
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