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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
August 20 2017 18:46 GMT
#170141
On August 21 2017 03:42 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 21 2017 03:36 Plansix wrote:
On August 21 2017 03:32 Uldridge wrote:
What could go wrong!?

Suicide bombers are bad because you can only use them once. What if we developed software and a sensor package that could remove the human from the equation? And then we started a bidding war to see who could make it the cheapest. How could this go wrong?

On August 21 2017 03:32 Uldridge wrote:
What could go wrong!?

On August 21 2017 03:32 warding wrote:
Uranium and nuclear weapons are hard to get. Electronics is cheap and software is free to transfer. It isn't a stretch to imagine an enemy/rogue state or a criminal organization in a failed state developing autonomous weapons and feeding them to terrorist organizations to mess with israel or the U.S.

I doubt you understand what goes into making an AI. You don't just implement AI by pressing install and fuse some electronics together and put it in a husk.
You need mechanical, software and electrical engineers to fix that stuff. It's pretty difficult to make de novo able autonomous killing machines.


My grandfather used to run a company that did military R&D for optics(sights for guns on boats or para-scopes). They made those things to be used by people with a 6th grade reading level. If this is developed for the military, there is a good chance it will be brain dead easy to use. And they will make it to be mass produced in some way.

Couldn't you already just strap a triggered bomb onto a drone from someplace like Best Buy and pilot into position?

Maybe you could make it a bit faster than a drone and call it a missile?
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Uldridge
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Belgium4763 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-20 18:53:02
August 20 2017 18:49 GMT
#170142
On August 21 2017 03:43 Liquid`Drone wrote:
being the first to develop a killer robot does indeed sound like an amazingly difficult task. But isn't the thing with electronics and programming that it's kinda easy to replicate? I mean missile technology does seem like a pretty damn well guarded secret, but they also blow up, so you can't reverse engineer one.

And who has decent missile technology? I'd say not too many and have they been independently developed or was there some coalition between military industries.

Also: just looked at the list of missiles by country and LOL at the USA. I have some more appreciation for their military budget in some morbid way.
Ok, it's a little less intense than that other list makes it seem to be: these are the current active missiles of the US.
Taxes are for Terrans
thePunGun
Profile Blog Joined January 2016
598 Posts
August 20 2017 19:07 GMT
#170143
Uhm, where can I buy those killer robots?
"You cannot teach a man anything, you can only help him find it within himself."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 20 2017 19:18 GMT
#170144
LOS ANGELES — While President Donald Trump continues to dismantle Obama-era climate policies, an unlikely surge of Republican lawmakers has begun taking steps to distance themselves from the GOP’s hard line on climate change.

The House Climate Solutions Caucus, a bipartisan backwater when it formed early last year, has more than tripled in size since January, driven in part by Trump’s decision in June to withdraw the United States from the Paris climate accord.

And last month, 46 Republicans joined Democrats to defeat an amendment to the annual defense authorization bill that would have deleted a requirement that the Defense Department prepare for the effects of climate change.

The willingness of some Republicans to buck their party on climate change could help burnish their moderate credentials ahead of the 2018 elections. Of the 26 Republican caucus members, all but five represent districts targeted by the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee next year.

But it has also buoyed activists who view the House members’ positioning as a rare sign of GOP movement on climate change.

“Strangely, President Trump helped us,” said Bob Inglis, a former Republican congressman whose views on climate change contributed to his defeat in a South Carolina primary in 2010. “His withdrawal from Paris dramatically increased the number of [internet] searches about climate change and increased interest … People are getting more and more uncomfortable with the nuttiness of these positions.”

In a Republican-held Congress, Inglis said, voting to reject a Republican-backed amendment to the defense authorization bill was “a big step for these members … Members of Congress who are attuned to their districts apparently are picking up on the reality that Americans on both left and right are concerned about climate change.”

If the Republican Party is undergoing a shift on climate, it is at its earliest, most incremental stage. Rejection of mainstream climate science remains widespread within the GOP. Trump has called climate change a “hoax,” and he infuriated environmentalists again this week when he repealed a flood standard for federally funded infrastructure projects.

The Climate Solutions Caucus itself represents only a minority of the Republican conference. And its members have been criticized by environmental activists for their records on issues ranging from oil drilling to climate research, some posting lifetime scores in single digits on the League of Conservation Voters’ environmental scorecard.

Rep. Ted Deutch, a Florida Democrat who founded the climate caucus with fellow Floridian Carlos Curbelo, a Republican, said Trump’s decision to withdraw from the Paris climate agreement was so jarring that “some of my colleagues were looking for ways to show that they actually do want to respond.” But at least two Republican members of the caucus — Reps. Tom Reed and Claudia Tenney of New York — supported Trump’s withdrawal from the accord.

“I tend to call it the ‘Climate Peacocks Caucus’ … people who express great concern and then vote the wrong way,” said R.L. Miller, founder of the super-PAC Climate Hawks Vote. “Obviously, the caucus is growing in popularity. But my overall sense is that it is being used as political cover. It is no coincidence that the Republicans who joined are on that red-to-blue flip-able list.”

Alex Taurel, deputy legislative director at the League of Conservation Voters, said “there is a wide variety of support for action on climate change, and not just sort of rhetorically accepting the science.”

Still, in their vote on the defense authorization bill, Republicans fought to keep language declaring “climate change is a direct threat to the national security of the United States and is impacting stability in areas of the world.”

Taurel said it is “still too early to know what that vote kind of signifies. But if it represents a harbinger that the caucus is going to start to support things together to reduce carbon pollution, then that’s a real development.”

Curbelo, one of the most vulnerable Republicans in the House, said this week that the Climate Solutions Caucus has grown faster than he expected and that “two years ago, I don’t think you could find more than two or three Republicans in the House who were willing to go on record in a significant way” on climate change. He said the group is now focused on “blocking and tackling … opposing anti-climate legislation.”

“I think the next phase, and hopefully we can get to that this Congress, is to turn the caucus into an ideas factory, get behind proactive legislation,” Curbelo said. “I think the vast majority of House Republicans are shifting toward accepting the science and openness toward at least modest policy prescriptions.”

For Republicans, the most politically palatable opening on climate change appears to be on spending, not regulation. Rep. John Faso, a top target of Democrats in New York, said Republicans should push in their infrastructure talks for money to help local and state governments “harden their infrastructure” to gird against climate change. He also suggested including incentives for agriculture-friendly carbon sequestration programs in the farm bill.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Kyadytim
Profile Joined March 2009
United States886 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-20 19:49:41
August 20 2017 19:49 GMT
#170145
On August 21 2017 02:39 Danglars wrote:

Hey Danglars, why are you so attached to this? Less than 0.1% of the protesters were arrested. That's not a very significant portion. Also, as far as I've found, no one was even sent to the hospital for injuries. You know what else is comparable? The infant mortality rate and maternal mortality rate in the United States, at around 0.6% and 0.25%, respectively. Why aren't you interested in talking about those constantly? Are you like Donald Trump in that you need easily digested visuals to hold your attention?
Uldridge
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Belgium4763 Posts
August 20 2017 19:54 GMT
#170146
They're called confirmation bias and belief perseverance.
Taxes are for Terrans
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23218 Posts
August 20 2017 19:55 GMT
#170147
On August 21 2017 04:49 Kyadytim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 21 2017 02:39 Danglars wrote:
https://twitter.com/philipindc/status/899099024455872512

Hey Danglars, why are you so attached to this? Less than 0.1% of the protesters were arrested. That's not a very significant portion. Also, as far as I've found, no one was even sent to the hospital for injuries. You know what else is comparable? The infant mortality rate and maternal mortality rate in the United States, at around 0.6% and 0.25%, respectively. Why aren't you interested in talking about those constantly? Are you like Donald Trump in that you need easily digested visuals to hold your attention?


I'm genuinely curious if they think the oppression of Nazis is worse than the systemic and habitual abuse of PoC? I know which one they spend more time being critical of.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35142 Posts
August 20 2017 20:22 GMT
#170148
On August 21 2017 03:46 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 21 2017 03:42 Gahlo wrote:
On August 21 2017 03:36 Plansix wrote:
On August 21 2017 03:32 Uldridge wrote:
What could go wrong!?

Suicide bombers are bad because you can only use them once. What if we developed software and a sensor package that could remove the human from the equation? And then we started a bidding war to see who could make it the cheapest. How could this go wrong?

On August 21 2017 03:32 Uldridge wrote:
What could go wrong!?

On August 21 2017 03:32 warding wrote:
Uranium and nuclear weapons are hard to get. Electronics is cheap and software is free to transfer. It isn't a stretch to imagine an enemy/rogue state or a criminal organization in a failed state developing autonomous weapons and feeding them to terrorist organizations to mess with israel or the U.S.

I doubt you understand what goes into making an AI. You don't just implement AI by pressing install and fuse some electronics together and put it in a husk.
You need mechanical, software and electrical engineers to fix that stuff. It's pretty difficult to make de novo able autonomous killing machines.


My grandfather used to run a company that did military R&D for optics(sights for guns on boats or para-scopes). They made those things to be used by people with a 6th grade reading level. If this is developed for the military, there is a good chance it will be brain dead easy to use. And they will make it to be mass produced in some way.

Couldn't you already just strap a triggered bomb onto a drone from someplace like Best Buy and pilot into position?

Maybe you could make it a bit faster than a drone and call it a missile?

I'm assuming it's easier to make a bomb and put it on a civilian accessible drone than it is to make missiles. Especially if you're already in "enemy territory" and have to dodge detection.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 20 2017 20:35 GMT
#170149
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4748 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-20 21:29:56
August 20 2017 20:56 GMT
#170150


With Bannon out, it's time for the generals to step in!

+ Show Spoiler +
As a side note, maybe this is sort of possibly a turning point? Trump's follow up tweets yesterday were also out of character. We'll just have to wait and see.
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
August 20 2017 21:04 GMT
#170151
The biggest "turning point" of Trump has to be his reaction to the aftermath of the Steele dossier. It's been a slow but certain descent into insanity over time since then.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
August 20 2017 21:05 GMT
#170152
On August 21 2017 04:49 Kyadytim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 21 2017 02:39 Danglars wrote:
https://twitter.com/philipindc/status/899099024455872512

Hey Danglars, why are you so attached to this? Less than 0.1% of the protesters were arrested. That's not a very significant portion. Also, as far as I've found, no one was even sent to the hospital for injuries. You know what else is comparable? The infant mortality rate and maternal mortality rate in the United States, at around 0.6% and 0.25%, respectively. Why aren't you interested in talking about those constantly? Are you like Donald Trump in that you need easily digested visuals to hold your attention?

So some context. In the aftermath of Charlottesville, many lefty journos made comparisons between the alt left and brave soldiers of the DDay invasion, etc etc. Violence on one side was trivialized; Trump assisted in this by giving a weak initial address. But this is America now. The alt left/antifa protestors threw rocks and urine at cops in Boston to where their police twitter asked them to stop. Majorities of polled Republicans thought Trump handled it well. Why? Because at least he's willing to admit to the other side ... it's the reaction that prompted it. Instead of, we'll, conflating violent protestors and actual arrests, or no data on percent violent and percent maternal mortality. Do you see what you're even doing, or does big orange Trump short circuit critical thought ("you need easily digested visuals to hold your attention"-your words)

Another voice I thought put it well:
You have good reason to be upset that this president couldn’t meet that modest standard. If you’re on the political right, moreover, you may be even more upset by a poll that says two-thirds of Republicans actually approve of Trump’s response. They believe he ascribed blame accurately.

Well, he didn’t. Does that make the poll result irrational?

I don’t think so. It is not that two-thirds of the Right really think “very fine people” make common cause with the KKK. And it’s not that they really see two sides equally at fault. It is that, regardless of comparative fault, they know there were two sides out there. And they know the media has tried to obscure that fact. The poll is less indicative of settled belief than of gut reaction.

People are fed up. If you dare notice the radical Left, you are not an observer of objective fact, you are a neo-Nazi sympathizer. If you dare notice that many of the “peaceful protesters” were swinging batons and spraying chemicals, you need a re-education course in “unconscious racism.”

National Review

So I think it's necessary to report on the violence at these rallies particularly because you have an ideological need to diminish it. This is part of a pattern and we'll see more boldness from these groups because they'll be a minority in big protests and media figures will give them cover.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-20 21:26:07
August 20 2017 21:13 GMT
#170153
On August 21 2017 04:49 Kyadytim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 21 2017 02:39 Danglars wrote:
https://twitter.com/philipindc/status/899099024455872512

Hey Danglars, why are you so attached to this? Less than 0.1% of the protesters were arrested. That's not a very significant portion. Also, as far as I've found, no one was even sent to the hospital for injuries. You know what else is comparable? The infant mortality rate and maternal mortality rate in the United States, at around 0.6% and 0.25%, respectively. Why aren't you interested in talking about those constantly? Are you like Donald Trump in that you need easily digested visuals to hold your attention?

he's attached to it because it's the kind of psychological gymnastics people routinely do to make themselves feel good about themselves and to justify bad decisions they made. it's been a field day for studying psychological phenomena like rationalization.
he has to make the other side look bad so his side isn't bad in comparison.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
August 20 2017 21:29 GMT
#170154
On August 21 2017 05:56 Introvert wrote:
https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/899357433461714945

With Bannon out, it's time for the generals to step in!

+ Show Spoiler +
As a side note, maybe this is sort of possibly a turning point? Trump's follow up tweets yesterday were also out of character. We'll just have to wait and see.

Dems and generals. It's looking pretty sparse for an advising team.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4748 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-20 21:32:49
August 20 2017 21:31 GMT
#170155
On August 21 2017 06:29 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 21 2017 05:56 Introvert wrote:
https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/899357433461714945

With Bannon out, it's time for the generals to step in!

+ Show Spoiler +
As a side note, maybe this is sort of possibly a turning point? Trump's follow up tweets yesterday were also out of character. We'll just have to wait and see.

Dems and generals. It's looking pretty sparse for an advising team.


They need Stephen Miller at least so Trump doesn't go floppy on immigration. Thankfully it seems that Trump likes him.

Edit: also Kelly was, by all accounts, doing well at DHS so maybe he won't be terrible on that topic.
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
August 20 2017 22:11 GMT
#170156
Kelly was pretty diehard about immigration from what I've read, I doubt getting rid of Miller would change the Trump admin position on it as long as Kelly stays.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-20 22:34:11
August 20 2017 22:26 GMT
#170157
I don't agree with Kelly on immigration, but I would rather have him there than letter Miller and Sessions run the show on that front.

Edit: I agree with the post below. Miller pretty much assures there will be no movement on immigration beyond deportations. No change in policy or law.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Wulfey_LA
Profile Joined April 2017
932 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-20 22:32:07
August 20 2017 22:31 GMT
#170158
Miller is the key thing keeping Trump from passing any kind of immigration legislation. That he comes out and says "50% reduction" is essential to blocking any and all Republican immigration legislation. If Trump cleans house and gets rid of the soft-ethnostate people, Trump might be able to cobble together a vote on some kind of immigration reform.

From a Dem perspective, this is kind of great. We don't want to give Reps credit for immigration reform and their immigration plans that are Miller-styled are terrible.

From a Rep perspective ... did you really want an immigration bill? Really? Cause the Trump/Miller team is just yanking your chain about having a bill.
ImFromPortugal
Profile Joined April 2010
Portugal1368 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-20 22:45:44
August 20 2017 22:40 GMT
#170159
On August 21 2017 03:42 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 21 2017 03:36 Plansix wrote:
On August 21 2017 03:32 Uldridge wrote:
What could go wrong!?

Suicide bombers are bad because you can only use them once. What if we developed software and a sensor package that could remove the human from the equation? And then we started a bidding war to see who could make it the cheapest. How could this go wrong?

On August 21 2017 03:32 Uldridge wrote:
What could go wrong!?

On August 21 2017 03:32 warding wrote:
Uranium and nuclear weapons are hard to get. Electronics is cheap and software is free to transfer. It isn't a stretch to imagine an enemy/rogue state or a criminal organization in a failed state developing autonomous weapons and feeding them to terrorist organizations to mess with israel or the U.S.

I doubt you understand what goes into making an AI. You don't just implement AI by pressing install and fuse some electronics together and put it in a husk.
You need mechanical, software and electrical engineers to fix that stuff. It's pretty difficult to make de novo able autonomous killing machines.


My grandfather used to run a company that did military R&D for optics(sights for guns on boats or para-scopes). They made those things to be used by people with a 6th grade reading level. If this is developed for the military, there is a good chance it will be brain dead easy to use. And they will make it to be mass produced in some way.

Couldn't you already just strap a triggered bomb onto a drone from someplace like Best Buy and pilot into position?



You can actually turn drones into cruise missiles, they are now sophisticated enough that you can just set a course and they will go there using GPS as guidance all you need is a few https://www.parrot.com/us/drones.

The US army already has some kamikaze drones [image loading]
Yes im
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42639 Posts
August 20 2017 22:52 GMT
#170160
On August 21 2017 03:43 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 21 2017 03:42 Gahlo wrote:
On August 21 2017 03:36 Plansix wrote:
On August 21 2017 03:32 Uldridge wrote:
What could go wrong!?

Suicide bombers are bad because you can only use them once. What if we developed software and a sensor package that could remove the human from the equation? And then we started a bidding war to see who could make it the cheapest. How could this go wrong?

On August 21 2017 03:32 Uldridge wrote:
What could go wrong!?

On August 21 2017 03:32 warding wrote:
Uranium and nuclear weapons are hard to get. Electronics is cheap and software is free to transfer. It isn't a stretch to imagine an enemy/rogue state or a criminal organization in a failed state developing autonomous weapons and feeding them to terrorist organizations to mess with israel or the U.S.

I doubt you understand what goes into making an AI. You don't just implement AI by pressing install and fuse some electronics together and put it in a husk.
You need mechanical, software and electrical engineers to fix that stuff. It's pretty difficult to make de novo able autonomous killing machines.


My grandfather used to run a company that did military R&D for optics(sights for guns on boats or para-scopes). They made those things to be used by people with a 6th grade reading level. If this is developed for the military, there is a good chance it will be brain dead easy to use. And they will make it to be mass produced in some way.

Couldn't you already just strap a triggered bomb onto a drone from someplace like Best Buy and pilot into position?

It is only a matter of time before someone tries that. I am sort of surprised it hasn't happened yet.

ISIS use them all the time. ECM work to an extent but at some point someone will get one that can be shielded and preprogrammed to carry out an attack.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
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