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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9070 Posts
August 15 2017 16:27 GMT
#168221
On August 16 2017 01:25 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:

I think everything should be handled via twitter posts with this administration. Everyone should either resign, join, or make policies via twitter.
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
August 15 2017 16:28 GMT
#168222
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
Trainrunnef
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States601 Posts
August 15 2017 16:33 GMT
#168223
On August 16 2017 01:28 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
https://twitter.com/JesseRodriguez/status/897476925878411264

This is my favorite line in that article:

Meanwhile, Richard Spencer, an organizer of the Charlottesville rally, told reporters that Trump had not condemned his movement. “His statement today was more kumbaya nonsense,” Spencer said. “Only a dumb person would take those lines seriously.”


This is why word choice, and timing mater...
I am, therefore I pee
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
August 15 2017 16:34 GMT
#168224
On August 16 2017 01:25 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/ScottPaulAAM/status/897482381275283456


Is this guy a big deal? I'm not really sure what this means without context.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 15 2017 16:35 GMT
#168225
Pearce Tefft wrote a letter to members of his community in Fargo, N.D., to set the record straight about his family and the current state of his relationship to Peter Tefft, calling his son "an avowed white nationalist" who attended the "Unite the Right" rally in Charlottesville, Va., over the weekend.

"I, along with all of his siblings and his entire family, wish to loudly repudiate my son's vile, hateful and racist rhetoric and actions," Tefft wrote in a letter to The Forum newspaper on Monday. "We do not know specifically where he learned these beliefs. He did not learn them at home."

As for what Peter Tefft did learn at home, his father says he believes in equality and opened his house to "friends and acquaintances of every race, gender and creed."

This charming Nazi is Pete Tefft of Fargo, ND -- spotted in @UR_Ninja's video: https://t.co/2oslzXHtRZ #GoodNightAltRight #Charlottesville pic.twitter.com/Zqd2gm8mOC
— Yes, You're Racist (@YesYoureRacist) August 12, 2017
Peter Tefft's decision to "unlearn" what he was taught has brought heartbreak to the family, Pearce Tefft said. He added that he won't open his home to his son and that he is no longer welcome at any family gatherings.

Urging the community not to judge the entire family based on Peter Tefft's involvement with the neo-Nazi movement, Pearce Tefft said that while his son's beliefs are his own, they "are bringing hateful rhetoric to his siblings, cousins, nieces and nephews as well as his parents."

Calling Peter a prodigal son who might someday be welcomed back — but not until he disavows hatred — Pearce Tefft urged, "Please son, renounce the hate, accept and love all."

Peter Tefft was identified by an online campaign led by the Twitter account "Yes, You're Racist," which began working over the weekend to identify the non-hooded white supremacists who appeared at the march and rally in Charlottesville.

At least one attendee of the Unite the Right rally has lost his job; others have faced intense scrutiny. When it comes to Peter Tefft, his family is making it clear that his beliefs are not theirs — and that he is not welcome to come back home.

Other members of Tefft's family have also spoken out. When The Forum reported about Peter Tefft's involvement with the rally over the weekend, his nephew, Jacob Scott, issued a statement that read in part:

"In brief, we reject him wholly – both him personally as a vile person who has HIMSELF made violent threats against our family, and also his hideous ideology, which we abhor. We are all bleeding-heart liberals who believe in the fundamental equality of all human beings. Peter is a maniac, who has turned away from all of us and gone down some insane internet rabbit-hole, and turned into a crazy nazi. He scares us all, we don't feel safe around him, and we don't know how he came to be this way. My grandfather feels especially grieved, as though he has failed as a father."
In a Facebook post about his uncle, Scott wrote, "Peter, if you are reading this, PLEASE CHANGE YOUR NAME IMMEDIATELY. You are bringing shame and ignominy on your whole family, and causing a great deal of heartbreak and distress for all of us."

Both Jacob Scott and Pearce Tefft promised that they would resist their relative to the end, with Pearce Tefft telling his son, "you will have to shovel our bodies into the oven, too."

That sentiment, echoed by both relatives, was a reference to a joke they said Tefft had told about how fascists treat dissenting opinion.


Source

I always read about politics tearing families apart during the 60s and 70s, but it never seemed real. Even on the one side of my family that I interact with, political views were varied from a life long, boot straps Republican to Oxford educated bleeding heart liberals. I have no context for what these folks feel they have to do.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
semantics
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
10040 Posts
August 15 2017 16:36 GMT
#168226
On August 16 2017 00:24 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:

I had an HR boss say that once to his HR team, a month later all of them quit and HR was forced to resign
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11607 Posts
August 15 2017 16:37 GMT
#168227
Well, I mean, I can see some delay in a specific condemnation. (In Muslim terror attacks this is certainly the case because it takes some time for it to be established and/or released that it was such an attack.) And so in this case, I could see keeping your powder dry until such time that it confirmed to be a white supremacist attack.

Because if you have your ear to the ground there were all sorts of rumours: that it was false flag or that the car was surrounded, the driver panicked and gunned it to get out. Turns out, no he is a white supremacist and there is more video footage that shows the car lining up and accelerating into the crowd, but in the first hours there could be some sense in holding off condemning a white terror attack if it wasn't so clear to you at the time that that is what it was. Of course everything cleared up pretty quickly and so that would be the time to roundly condemn it.
ModeratorWake me up when Trump's term is finished. Slava Ukraini.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
August 15 2017 16:40 GMT
#168228
On August 16 2017 01:37 Falling wrote:
Well, I mean, I can see some delay in a specific condemnation. (In Muslim terror attacks this is certainly the case because it takes some time for it to be established and/or released that it was such an attack.) And so in this case, I could see keeping your powder dry until such time that it confirmed to be a white supremacist attack.

Because if you have your ear to the ground there were all sorts of rumours: that it was false flag or that the car was surrounded, the driver panicked and gunned it to get out. Turns out, no he is a white supremacist and there is more video footage that shows the car lining up and accelerating into the crowd, but in the first hours there could be some sense in holding off condemning a white terror attack if it wasn't so clear to you at the time that that is what it was. Of course everything cleared up pretty quickly and so that would be the time to roundly condemn it.


Are you really saying you don't think the administration knew enough about the attacker for 2 full days? They likely had his entire life's timeline on Trump's desk within 6 hours of the attack.
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
August 15 2017 16:44 GMT
#168229
On August 16 2017 01:37 Falling wrote:
Well, I mean, I can see some delay in a specific condemnation. (In Muslim terror attacks this is certainly the case because it takes some time for it to be established and/or released that it was such an attack.) And so in this case, I could see keeping your powder dry until such time that it confirmed to be a white supremacist attack.

Because if you have your ear to the ground there were all sorts of rumours: that it was false flag or that the car was surrounded, the driver panicked and gunned it to get out. Turns out, no he is a white supremacist and there is more video footage that shows the car lining up and accelerating into the crowd, but in the first hours there could be some sense in holding off condemning a white terror attack if it wasn't so clear to you at the time that that is what it was. Of course everything cleared up pretty quickly and so that would be the time to roundly condemn it.


Except Trump doesn't show this kind of calm, calculated, response with attacks done by "brown" people. He goes straight to Islamic Terrorism, as he had done multiple times.
Wulfey_LA
Profile Joined April 2017
932 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-15 17:08:31
August 15 2017 16:47 GMT
#168230
On August 16 2017 01:33 Trainrunnef wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2017 01:28 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
https://twitter.com/JesseRodriguez/status/897476925878411264

This is my favorite line in that article:

Show nested quote +
Meanwhile, Richard Spencer, an organizer of the Charlottesville rally, told reporters that Trump had not condemned his movement. “His statement today was more kumbaya nonsense,” Spencer said. “Only a dumb person would take those lines seriously.”


This is why word choice, and timing mater...


This is why I like reading what White Nationalists have to say. It doesn't have the willful obtuseness of Conservatives in these threads. The White Pride guys talk so freely and without bad faith and hypocrisy. Conservatives everywhere grasp on the tiniest of straws to try and excuse Trump's actions as not being what they obviously are, but the white pride crew see it clearly and call it like is.

EDIT: an illustrative example.

PROPOSITION: DJT delays condemning white nationalists and equivocates about violence in order to not offend his racist base on the advice of Bannon. Multiple news outlets hear this from WH insiders.

CONSERVATIVE SPIN: You can't prove that. Anonymous sources can't be trusted. What about antifa? Have you heard about Chicago murders? You call everything racist. The real racism is making everything about race. Have you heard about the #ViolentLeft? What about the Lenin statute? What about statutes of non-traitorous legitimate heroes? The real threat to free speech is the repressive left. EDIT2: but the Mayor of that town is stupid and bad, so you can't possibly trust his eye witness accounts of violence that were confirmed by multiple MSM sources.

WHITE NATIONALISTS: Good. DJT is making space for us and has our interests in mind.
Diavlo
Profile Joined July 2011
Belgium2915 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-15 16:50:56
August 15 2017 16:48 GMT
#168231
On August 16 2017 01:34 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2017 01:25 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/ScottPaulAAM/status/897482381275283456


Is this guy a big deal? I'm not really sure what this means without context.

He's the president of the American Manufacturing Council which is now leaking CEOs left and right since the Charlottesville debacle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Manufacturing_Council

Edit: actually I'm wring he as just part of the council. He's not of more importance than the rest of the CEOs.
"I don't know how many years on this Earth I got left. I'm gonna get real weird with it."
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
August 15 2017 16:50 GMT
#168232
On August 16 2017 01:48 Diavlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2017 01:34 Mohdoo wrote:
On August 16 2017 01:25 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/ScottPaulAAM/status/897482381275283456


Is this guy a big deal? I'm not really sure what this means without context.

He's the president of the American Manufacturing Council which is now leaking CEOs left and right since the Charlottesville debacle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Manufacturing_Council


So this guy is the president of the coucil that Intel etc quit? So this body, under Trump, has no leader?
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6625 Posts
August 15 2017 16:52 GMT
#168233
On August 16 2017 01:44 On_Slaught wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2017 01:37 Falling wrote:
Well, I mean, I can see some delay in a specific condemnation. (In Muslim terror attacks this is certainly the case because it takes some time for it to be established and/or released that it was such an attack.) And so in this case, I could see keeping your powder dry until such time that it confirmed to be a white supremacist attack.

Because if you have your ear to the ground there were all sorts of rumours: that it was false flag or that the car was surrounded, the driver panicked and gunned it to get out. Turns out, no he is a white supremacist and there is more video footage that shows the car lining up and accelerating into the crowd, but in the first hours there could be some sense in holding off condemning a white terror attack if it wasn't so clear to you at the time that that is what it was. Of course everything cleared up pretty quickly and so that would be the time to roundly condemn it.


Except Trump doesn't show this kind of calm, calculated, response with attacks done by "brown" people. He goes straight to Islamic Terrorism, as he had done multiple times.

Has he been wrong about Islamic terror attacks before though?
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
IyMoon
Profile Joined April 2016
United States1249 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-15 16:56:33
August 15 2017 16:55 GMT
#168234
On August 16 2017 01:52 oBlade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2017 01:44 On_Slaught wrote:
On August 16 2017 01:37 Falling wrote:
Well, I mean, I can see some delay in a specific condemnation. (In Muslim terror attacks this is certainly the case because it takes some time for it to be established and/or released that it was such an attack.) And so in this case, I could see keeping your powder dry until such time that it confirmed to be a white supremacist attack.

Because if you have your ear to the ground there were all sorts of rumours: that it was false flag or that the car was surrounded, the driver panicked and gunned it to get out. Turns out, no he is a white supremacist and there is more video footage that shows the car lining up and accelerating into the crowd, but in the first hours there could be some sense in holding off condemning a white terror attack if it wasn't so clear to you at the time that that is what it was. Of course everything cleared up pretty quickly and so that would be the time to roundly condemn it.


Except Trump doesn't show this kind of calm, calculated, response with attacks done by "brown" people. He goes straight to Islamic Terrorism, as he had done multiple times.

Has he been wrong about Islamic terror attacks before though?


Not sure, would he have been wrong to call this an attack by a white supremacist?

Edit: Wasn't he wrong about an attack in Quebec? Or did he just not say anything because that attack was done against Muslims?
Something witty
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11607 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-15 16:57:29
August 15 2017 16:56 GMT
#168235
On August 16 2017 01:40 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2017 01:37 Falling wrote:
Well, I mean, I can see some delay in a specific condemnation. (In Muslim terror attacks this is certainly the case because it takes some time for it to be established and/or released that it was such an attack.) And so in this case, I could see keeping your powder dry until such time that it confirmed to be a white supremacist attack.

Because if you have your ear to the ground there were all sorts of rumours: that it was false flag or that the car was surrounded, the driver panicked and gunned it to get out. Turns out, no he is a white supremacist and there is more video footage that shows the car lining up and accelerating into the crowd, but in the first hours there could be some sense in holding off condemning a white terror attack if it wasn't so clear to you at the time that that is what it was. Of course everything cleared up pretty quickly and so that would be the time to roundly condemn it.


Are you really saying you don't think the administration knew enough about the attacker for 2 full days? They likely had his entire life's timeline on Trump's desk within 6 hours of the attack.

No, not two days necessarily. I'm just saying there's some cause for some delay.

On August 16 2017 01:44 On_Slaught wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2017 01:37 Falling wrote:
Well, I mean, I can see some delay in a specific condemnation. (In Muslim terror attacks this is certainly the case because it takes some time for it to be established and/or released that it was such an attack.) And so in this case, I could see keeping your powder dry until such time that it confirmed to be a white supremacist attack.

Because if you have your ear to the ground there were all sorts of rumours: that it was false flag or that the car was surrounded, the driver panicked and gunned it to get out. Turns out, no he is a white supremacist and there is more video footage that shows the car lining up and accelerating into the crowd, but in the first hours there could be some sense in holding off condemning a white terror attack if it wasn't so clear to you at the time that that is what it was. Of course everything cleared up pretty quickly and so that would be the time to roundly condemn it.


Except Trump doesn't show this kind of calm, calculated, response with attacks done by "brown" people. He goes straight to Islamic Terrorism, as he had done multiple times.

Right, so I agree. Trump is being very inconsistent here.
ModeratorWake me up when Trump's term is finished. Slava Ukraini.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 15 2017 16:57 GMT
#168236
On August 16 2017 01:56 Falling wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2017 01:40 Mohdoo wrote:
On August 16 2017 01:37 Falling wrote:
Well, I mean, I can see some delay in a specific condemnation. (In Muslim terror attacks this is certainly the case because it takes some time for it to be established and/or released that it was such an attack.) And so in this case, I could see keeping your powder dry until such time that it confirmed to be a white supremacist attack.

Because if you have your ear to the ground there were all sorts of rumours: that it was false flag or that the car was surrounded, the driver panicked and gunned it to get out. Turns out, no he is a white supremacist and there is more video footage that shows the car lining up and accelerating into the crowd, but in the first hours there could be some sense in holding off condemning a white terror attack if it wasn't so clear to you at the time that that is what it was. Of course everything cleared up pretty quickly and so that would be the time to roundly condemn it.


Are you really saying you don't think the administration knew enough about the attacker for 2 full days? They likely had his entire life's timeline on Trump's desk within 6 hours of the attack.

No, not two days necessarily. I'm just saying there's some cause for some delay.

But there is no reason not to condemn the violence coming from the protest. We knew they were Nazis from the day before and the Mayor was saying they were responsible for the violence at the time.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
August 15 2017 17:03 GMT
#168237
On August 16 2017 01:57 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2017 01:56 Falling wrote:
On August 16 2017 01:40 Mohdoo wrote:
On August 16 2017 01:37 Falling wrote:
Well, I mean, I can see some delay in a specific condemnation. (In Muslim terror attacks this is certainly the case because it takes some time for it to be established and/or released that it was such an attack.) And so in this case, I could see keeping your powder dry until such time that it confirmed to be a white supremacist attack.

Because if you have your ear to the ground there were all sorts of rumours: that it was false flag or that the car was surrounded, the driver panicked and gunned it to get out. Turns out, no he is a white supremacist and there is more video footage that shows the car lining up and accelerating into the crowd, but in the first hours there could be some sense in holding off condemning a white terror attack if it wasn't so clear to you at the time that that is what it was. Of course everything cleared up pretty quickly and so that would be the time to roundly condemn it.


Are you really saying you don't think the administration knew enough about the attacker for 2 full days? They likely had his entire life's timeline on Trump's desk within 6 hours of the attack.

No, not two days necessarily. I'm just saying there's some cause for some delay.

But there is no reason not to condemn the violence coming from the protest. We knew they were Nazis from the day before and the Mayor was saying they were responsible for the violence at the time.

Let's not rely upon the idiot mayor as any kind of authority -- moral or factual. He's the same clown who stupidly tried revoking the Nazi's event permit, thereby ratcheting up tensions going into the event. I also bet that he's at least partially responsible for the failure of the police department to keep things under control during the rally.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
August 15 2017 17:06 GMT
#168238
So is ISIS able to apply for their own rally? What if there was a group that advocated for exterminating Christians and instating Sharia law across the US? Would they be granted a permit?
Jockmcplop
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom10017 Posts
August 15 2017 17:09 GMT
#168239


This documentary has enlightened me somewhat as to the mindset of these people.
It reminds me of football fans in the UK in the 80s. They all just look they enjoy chanting and shouting at each other with a fairly small subset who are their for as much violence as they can manage.
RIP Meatloaf <3
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-15 17:11:03
August 15 2017 17:09 GMT
#168240
On August 16 2017 02:03 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2017 01:57 Plansix wrote:
On August 16 2017 01:56 Falling wrote:
On August 16 2017 01:40 Mohdoo wrote:
On August 16 2017 01:37 Falling wrote:
Well, I mean, I can see some delay in a specific condemnation. (In Muslim terror attacks this is certainly the case because it takes some time for it to be established and/or released that it was such an attack.) And so in this case, I could see keeping your powder dry until such time that it confirmed to be a white supremacist attack.

Because if you have your ear to the ground there were all sorts of rumours: that it was false flag or that the car was surrounded, the driver panicked and gunned it to get out. Turns out, no he is a white supremacist and there is more video footage that shows the car lining up and accelerating into the crowd, but in the first hours there could be some sense in holding off condemning a white terror attack if it wasn't so clear to you at the time that that is what it was. Of course everything cleared up pretty quickly and so that would be the time to roundly condemn it.


Are you really saying you don't think the administration knew enough about the attacker for 2 full days? They likely had his entire life's timeline on Trump's desk within 6 hours of the attack.

No, not two days necessarily. I'm just saying there's some cause for some delay.

But there is no reason not to condemn the violence coming from the protest. We knew they were Nazis from the day before and the Mayor was saying they were responsible for the violence at the time.

Let's not rely upon the idiot mayor as any kind of authority -- moral or factual. He's the same clown who stupidly tried revoking the Nazi's event permit, thereby ratcheting up tensions going into the event. I also bet that he's at least partially responsible for the failure of the police department to keep things under control during the rally.

He didn’t try to revoke the permit from my understanding. He tried to move the venue out of down town because he was aware they were planning violence. The court denied his request after the ACLU sued. He also tried to limit what they could bring, which was also denied. And lets be honest, the state police are limited in what they can do with the some of the protesters are better armed than them. When people show up in body armor, shields and clubs, after posting online that they plan on violence, I don’t know why anyone expected this to turn out differently.

On August 16 2017 02:06 Mohdoo wrote:
So is ISIS able to apply for their own rally? What if there was a group that advocated for exterminating Christians and instating Sharia law across the US? Would they be granted a permit?


Would they be allowed to carry weapons? Shields and clubs? Would we be shocked that it ended violently?
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
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