|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On July 19 2017 06:03 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2017 05:34 Danglars wrote:Somebody's gotta turn it back to Democrat solutions that don't revolve around Trump, Trump+Russia, or Trump+corruption. It doesn't look like Perez, Schumer, or Pelosi has the leadership ability to make that happen. A Harvard-Harris poll showed majorities from both parties say Congress should stop focusing on Russia and focus instead on national security, the economy, and health care. 73% are concerned the Russia probes have distracted Congress from the issues that matter. It's viewed as inappropriate, sure, but not warranting 24/7 coverage and high focus ... an area that the beltway is out of sync with the rest of America. If the current leadership keeps the same focus, and stays in as the "current leadership" after losing so many seats, the Dems deserve 2018 and 2020 losses. Congress as such isn't focused on Russia, a committee is but Congress is free to do whatever they want, The only thing they are doing tho is failing to pass anything at all. That's also why Russia is so much in the news. There is nothing else coming out of the Government because they are utterly paralyzed by their own internal issues.
When I'm talking about what Democrats are doing and how it's hurting them in 2018/2020, I'm more or less expecting responses to touch on the point. Not the status of committees, but the dearth of leadership and lack of message that doesn't involve Trump or Russia. Or tell me why it doesn't matter or I'm wrong.
|
United States44285 Posts
Getting those who aren't hit by the catastrophe to subsidize those who are is literally the whole mechanism of insurance. Dismissing it as "punishing the healthy for their sins" is absurd.
|
On July 19 2017 06:04 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2017 05:34 Danglars wrote:Somebody's gotta turn it back to Democrat solutions that don't revolve around Trump, Trump+Russia, or Trump+corruption. It doesn't look like Perez, Schumer, or Pelosi has the leadership ability to make that happen. A Harvard-Harris poll showed majorities from both parties say Congress should stop focusing on Russia and focus instead on national security, the economy, and health care. 73% are concerned the Russia probes have distracted Congress from the issues that matter. It's viewed as inappropriate, sure, but not warranting 24/7 coverage and high focus ... an area that the beltway is out of sync with the rest of America. If the current leadership keeps the same focus, and stays in as the "current leadership" after losing so many seats, the Dems deserve 2018 and 2020 losses. People in here have been saying that (GH and myself) for a long time now.
Yup, and Kamala Harris is being backed by the Clinton donor pool already.
As to why Hillary's approval rating matters, she is not going to simply disappear come 2020. She intends on being a major player, probably a candidate if she wasn't STILL polling worse than Trump.
|
On July 19 2017 06:04 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2017 05:34 Danglars wrote:Somebody's gotta turn it back to Democrat solutions that don't revolve around Trump, Trump+Russia, or Trump+corruption. It doesn't look like Perez, Schumer, or Pelosi has the leadership ability to make that happen. A Harvard-Harris poll showed majorities from both parties say Congress should stop focusing on Russia and focus instead on national security, the economy, and health care. 73% are concerned the Russia probes have distracted Congress from the issues that matter. It's viewed as inappropriate, sure, but not warranting 24/7 coverage and high focus ... an area that the beltway is out of sync with the rest of America. If the current leadership keeps the same focus, and stays in as the "current leadership" after losing so many seats, the Dems deserve 2018 and 2020 losses. People in here have been saying that (GH and myself) for a long time now.
I thought the poll confirming it was sufficiently newsworthy to respond and mention it. I appreciate the voices that do apply the same level/similar level of criticism to their side as the opponents. Also, I never really thought the Dems would struggle this hard getting a cohesive message out in the wake of their election defeat ... it still boggles my mind.
|
On July 19 2017 06:06 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2017 06:03 Gorsameth wrote:On July 19 2017 05:34 Danglars wrote:Somebody's gotta turn it back to Democrat solutions that don't revolve around Trump, Trump+Russia, or Trump+corruption. It doesn't look like Perez, Schumer, or Pelosi has the leadership ability to make that happen. A Harvard-Harris poll showed majorities from both parties say Congress should stop focusing on Russia and focus instead on national security, the economy, and health care. 73% are concerned the Russia probes have distracted Congress from the issues that matter. It's viewed as inappropriate, sure, but not warranting 24/7 coverage and high focus ... an area that the beltway is out of sync with the rest of America. If the current leadership keeps the same focus, and stays in as the "current leadership" after losing so many seats, the Dems deserve 2018 and 2020 losses. Congress as such isn't focused on Russia, a committee is but Congress is free to do whatever they want, The only thing they are doing tho is failing to pass anything at all. That's also why Russia is so much in the news. There is nothing else coming out of the Government because they are utterly paralyzed by their own internal issues. When I'm talking about what Democrats are doing and how it's hurting them in 2018/2020, I'm more or less expecting responses to touch on the point. Not the status of committees, but the dearth of leadership and lack of message that doesn't involve Trump or Russia. Or tell me why it doesn't matter or I'm wrong.
Your poll referred to what Congress is doing, not what Democrats are doing. You used the poll to support an argument about what Democrats are doing. By undercutting the support for your argument, his point very clearly responded to your post.
|
On July 19 2017 06:08 KwarK wrote:
Getting those who aren't hit by the catastrophe to subsidize those who are is literally the whole mechanism of insurance. Dismissing it as "punishing the healthy for their sins" is absurd.
But insurance is just redistribution of wealth, designed to throw America into the talons of communism, only those fit enough either to secure healthcare for themselves, or never get sick/injured, should deserve to live.
/s
|
I too am upset about being punished for not crashing my car. As a perfect driver, I should not be forced to buy high levels of coverage, since my safe driving assures I won't do much damage when I do get into an accident.
Wait..... I'm not upset at all because I have the vaguest understanding of own insurance works. Get a better argument.
|
|
|
On July 19 2017 06:08 KwarK wrote:
Getting those who aren't hit by the catastrophe to subsidize those who are is literally the whole mechanism of insurance. Dismissing it as "punishing the healthy for their sins" is absurd.
Driving up their rates intentionally with harmful regs and defending it ala simultaneous subsidies is entirely new and purposefully damaging. You've turned insurance from defraying risk to a wealth transfer vehicle. Too bad that you don't qualify for subsidies, sucker, now take double deductibles and double premiums and clap for all the new enrollees. Thank god it's so transparent of a scheme, or the GOP would still be in the minority from 2010 to today. The victims of the ACA literally got a letter in the mail showing them the plans they liked don't exist anymore or would cost them much much more.
I note your swap from the premium/deductible talk to the defraying of catastrophe talk. Dishonest.
|
On July 19 2017 06:14 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2017 06:06 Danglars wrote:On July 19 2017 06:03 Gorsameth wrote:On July 19 2017 05:34 Danglars wrote:Somebody's gotta turn it back to Democrat solutions that don't revolve around Trump, Trump+Russia, or Trump+corruption. It doesn't look like Perez, Schumer, or Pelosi has the leadership ability to make that happen. A Harvard-Harris poll showed majorities from both parties say Congress should stop focusing on Russia and focus instead on national security, the economy, and health care. 73% are concerned the Russia probes have distracted Congress from the issues that matter. It's viewed as inappropriate, sure, but not warranting 24/7 coverage and high focus ... an area that the beltway is out of sync with the rest of America. If the current leadership keeps the same focus, and stays in as the "current leadership" after losing so many seats, the Dems deserve 2018 and 2020 losses. Congress as such isn't focused on Russia, a committee is but Congress is free to do whatever they want, The only thing they are doing tho is failing to pass anything at all. That's also why Russia is so much in the news. There is nothing else coming out of the Government because they are utterly paralyzed by their own internal issues. When I'm talking about what Democrats are doing and how it's hurting them in 2018/2020, I'm more or less expecting responses to touch on the point. Not the status of committees, but the dearth of leadership and lack of message that doesn't involve Trump or Russia. Or tell me why it doesn't matter or I'm wrong. Your poll referred to what Congress is doing, not what Democrats are doing. You used the poll to support an argument about what Democrats are doing. By undercutting the support for your argument, his point very clearly responded to your post.
My poll referred to the public' disgust with the Russia distraction. It has an effect on Congress. I showed how it means bad things for absent Democrat leadership, but apparently that's too damaging to discuss. Oh well. Go cite the poll and tell me why it's bad for Republicans, I mean be my guest. I'm very much in favor of making the argument than dodging the argument.
|
On July 19 2017 06:08 KwarK wrote:
Getting those who aren't hit by the catastrophe to subsidize those who are is literally the whole mechanism of insurance. Dismissing it as "punishing the healthy for their sins" is absurd.
It's not really insurance if you have a pre-existing condition though. Insurance implies that the risk is an event in the future.
Of course, what we really want anyways isn't insurance, but just affordable healthcare.
|
On July 19 2017 06:22 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2017 06:14 Doodsmack wrote:On July 19 2017 06:06 Danglars wrote:On July 19 2017 06:03 Gorsameth wrote:On July 19 2017 05:34 Danglars wrote:Somebody's gotta turn it back to Democrat solutions that don't revolve around Trump, Trump+Russia, or Trump+corruption. It doesn't look like Perez, Schumer, or Pelosi has the leadership ability to make that happen. A Harvard-Harris poll showed majorities from both parties say Congress should stop focusing on Russia and focus instead on national security, the economy, and health care. 73% are concerned the Russia probes have distracted Congress from the issues that matter. It's viewed as inappropriate, sure, but not warranting 24/7 coverage and high focus ... an area that the beltway is out of sync with the rest of America. If the current leadership keeps the same focus, and stays in as the "current leadership" after losing so many seats, the Dems deserve 2018 and 2020 losses. Congress as such isn't focused on Russia, a committee is but Congress is free to do whatever they want, The only thing they are doing tho is failing to pass anything at all. That's also why Russia is so much in the news. There is nothing else coming out of the Government because they are utterly paralyzed by their own internal issues. When I'm talking about what Democrats are doing and how it's hurting them in 2018/2020, I'm more or less expecting responses to touch on the point. Not the status of committees, but the dearth of leadership and lack of message that doesn't involve Trump or Russia. Or tell me why it doesn't matter or I'm wrong. Your poll referred to what Congress is doing, not what Democrats are doing. You used the poll to support an argument about what Democrats are doing. By undercutting the support for your argument, his point very clearly responded to your post. My poll referred to the public' disgust with the Russia distraction. It has an effect on Congress. I showed how it means bad things for absent Democrat leadership, but apparently that's too damaging to discuss. Oh well. Go cite the poll and tell me why it's bad for Republicans, I mean be my guest. I'm very much in favor of making the argument than dodging the argument.
A Harvard-Harris poll showed majorities from both parties say Congress should stop focusing on Russia and focus instead on national security, the economy, and health care. 73% are concerned the Russia probes have distracted Congress from the issues that matter.
Congress
Congress is free to focus on NS, economy and Healthcare.
Congress is failing to do any of it because every single one of their proposals keeps failing.
|
On July 19 2017 06:06 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2017 06:03 Gorsameth wrote:On July 19 2017 05:34 Danglars wrote:Somebody's gotta turn it back to Democrat solutions that don't revolve around Trump, Trump+Russia, or Trump+corruption. It doesn't look like Perez, Schumer, or Pelosi has the leadership ability to make that happen. A Harvard-Harris poll showed majorities from both parties say Congress should stop focusing on Russia and focus instead on national security, the economy, and health care. 73% are concerned the Russia probes have distracted Congress from the issues that matter. It's viewed as inappropriate, sure, but not warranting 24/7 coverage and high focus ... an area that the beltway is out of sync with the rest of America. If the current leadership keeps the same focus, and stays in as the "current leadership" after losing so many seats, the Dems deserve 2018 and 2020 losses. Congress as such isn't focused on Russia, a committee is but Congress is free to do whatever they want, The only thing they are doing tho is failing to pass anything at all. That's also why Russia is so much in the news. There is nothing else coming out of the Government because they are utterly paralyzed by their own internal issues. When I'm talking about what Democrats are doing and how it's hurting them in 2018/2020, I'm more or less expecting responses to touch on the point. Not the status of committees, but the dearth of leadership and lack of message that doesn't involve Trump or Russia. Or tell me why it doesn't matter or I'm wrong.
While I hope Democrats can get a more compelling message together in the future, I think strategically, going after Trumps administration is generally going to be a net positive for them. I think this is a bad thing for politics over all, but after Ben Ghazi and email gate proved how much energy an "investigation" can drum up, it seems negligent for Democrats not to swing back.
I don't know, people in this thread keep mentioning how much the Democrats messaging needs to evolve from "resist", but this seems to have been the Republican strategy to get themselves elected. The recent Healthcare battles really show that, they never had a plan and relied entirely on bashing the current system. It got them elected though so who can argue with the results?
|
|
|
On July 19 2017 06:20 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2017 06:08 KwarK wrote:
Getting those who aren't hit by the catastrophe to subsidize those who are is literally the whole mechanism of insurance. Dismissing it as "punishing the healthy for their sins" is absurd. Driving up their rates intentionally with harmful regs and defending it ala simultaneous subsidies is entirely new and purposefully damaging. You've turned insurance from defraying risk to a wealth transfer vehicle. Too bad that you don't qualify for subsidies, sucker, now take double deductibles and double premiums and clap for all the new enrollees. Thank god it's so transparent of a scheme, or the GOP would still be in the minority from 2010 to today. The victims of the ACA literally got a letter in the mail showing them the plans they liked don't exist anymore or would cost them much much more. I note your swap from the premium/deductible talk to the defraying of catastrophe talk. Dishonest.
But that is the whole idea of a healthcare system. The healthy subsidize the sick. If you were healthy, you are going to pay a bit more than before. If you are sick, you get to survive.
There are a whole lot of problems with the ACA, but it is still shitloads better than what you had before, which was "Be lucky/be rich or die and/or be ruined". US healthcare is expensive and shit.
I am still amazed by how hard a lot of people in the US fight to make their healthcare system even shittier.
You could just steal a healthcare system completely from basically any other first world nation and a) safe government money b) save private money c) have better healthcare for a large majority of the population d) stop ruining peoples lives. The US system is just that bad. But instead, you fight tooth and nail to go back to the even worse system that you had before. This is something that i simply can't understand at all.
|
|
|
On July 19 2017 06:22 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2017 06:14 Doodsmack wrote:On July 19 2017 06:06 Danglars wrote:On July 19 2017 06:03 Gorsameth wrote:On July 19 2017 05:34 Danglars wrote:Somebody's gotta turn it back to Democrat solutions that don't revolve around Trump, Trump+Russia, or Trump+corruption. It doesn't look like Perez, Schumer, or Pelosi has the leadership ability to make that happen. A Harvard-Harris poll showed majorities from both parties say Congress should stop focusing on Russia and focus instead on national security, the economy, and health care. 73% are concerned the Russia probes have distracted Congress from the issues that matter. It's viewed as inappropriate, sure, but not warranting 24/7 coverage and high focus ... an area that the beltway is out of sync with the rest of America. If the current leadership keeps the same focus, and stays in as the "current leadership" after losing so many seats, the Dems deserve 2018 and 2020 losses. Congress as such isn't focused on Russia, a committee is but Congress is free to do whatever they want, The only thing they are doing tho is failing to pass anything at all. That's also why Russia is so much in the news. There is nothing else coming out of the Government because they are utterly paralyzed by their own internal issues. When I'm talking about what Democrats are doing and how it's hurting them in 2018/2020, I'm more or less expecting responses to touch on the point. Not the status of committees, but the dearth of leadership and lack of message that doesn't involve Trump or Russia. Or tell me why it doesn't matter or I'm wrong. Your poll referred to what Congress is doing, not what Democrats are doing. You used the poll to support an argument about what Democrats are doing. By undercutting the support for your argument, his point very clearly responded to your post. My poll referred to the public' disgust with the Russia distraction. It has an effect on Congress. I showed how it means bad things for absent Democrat leadership, but apparently that's too damaging to discuss. Oh well. Go cite the poll and tell me why it's bad for Republicans, I mean be my guest. I'm very much in favor of making the argument than dodging the argument.
The idea that the Russian distraction is the Democrat's fault is...
I ask you how many Russians were in this meeting you never mentioned?
You lie, and say that's everything.
This means the media gets to dig and reveal each person that you "forgot" to mention, day, after day.
Totally the Democrats.
And today we learn Trump met Putin for a private 1-1 meeting that no one mentioned.
The Democrats did it. Obama? Hillary? Somebody.
|
On July 19 2017 06:25 chocorush wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2017 06:08 KwarK wrote:
Getting those who aren't hit by the catastrophe to subsidize those who are is literally the whole mechanism of insurance. Dismissing it as "punishing the healthy for their sins" is absurd. It's not really insurance if you have a pre-existing condition though. Insurance implies that the risk is an event in the future. Of course, what we really want anyways isn't insurance, but just affordable healthcare.
If we're talking about insuring against risk (which wasn't totally the case before, and is much less of the case today), losing your job shouldn't mean losing your insurance policy. The plan is yours.
|
I'm a bit appalled that anyone can say "just ignore the shit Trump does/has done" with a straight face. Identifying these problems is one of the core roles of any opposition party, and bringing them to the public eye is a very large part of government accountability.
I can understand if you don't think focusing on this will win elections. In a more functional electoral base than what the US has at present, it probably would cause a collapse of the Republican presidency, if not party. But regardless of election optics, if Democrats turn a blind eye, if voters turn a blind eye, and if Republicans don't face any repercussions, then your electoral system is pretty much fucked from here on out.
|
On July 19 2017 06:26 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2017 06:22 Danglars wrote:On July 19 2017 06:14 Doodsmack wrote:On July 19 2017 06:06 Danglars wrote:On July 19 2017 06:03 Gorsameth wrote:On July 19 2017 05:34 Danglars wrote:Somebody's gotta turn it back to Democrat solutions that don't revolve around Trump, Trump+Russia, or Trump+corruption. It doesn't look like Perez, Schumer, or Pelosi has the leadership ability to make that happen. A Harvard-Harris poll showed majorities from both parties say Congress should stop focusing on Russia and focus instead on national security, the economy, and health care. 73% are concerned the Russia probes have distracted Congress from the issues that matter. It's viewed as inappropriate, sure, but not warranting 24/7 coverage and high focus ... an area that the beltway is out of sync with the rest of America. If the current leadership keeps the same focus, and stays in as the "current leadership" after losing so many seats, the Dems deserve 2018 and 2020 losses. Congress as such isn't focused on Russia, a committee is but Congress is free to do whatever they want, The only thing they are doing tho is failing to pass anything at all. That's also why Russia is so much in the news. There is nothing else coming out of the Government because they are utterly paralyzed by their own internal issues. When I'm talking about what Democrats are doing and how it's hurting them in 2018/2020, I'm more or less expecting responses to touch on the point. Not the status of committees, but the dearth of leadership and lack of message that doesn't involve Trump or Russia. Or tell me why it doesn't matter or I'm wrong. Your poll referred to what Congress is doing, not what Democrats are doing. You used the poll to support an argument about what Democrats are doing. By undercutting the support for your argument, his point very clearly responded to your post. My poll referred to the public' disgust with the Russia distraction. It has an effect on Congress. I showed how it means bad things for absent Democrat leadership, but apparently that's too damaging to discuss. Oh well. Go cite the poll and tell me why it's bad for Republicans, I mean be my guest. I'm very much in favor of making the argument than dodging the argument. Show nested quote + A Harvard-Harris poll showed majorities from both parties say Congress should stop focusing on Russia and focus instead on national security, the economy, and health care. 73% are concerned the Russia probes have distracted Congress from the issues that matter. Congress Congress is free to focus on NS, economy and Healthcare. Congress is failing to do any of it because every single one of their proposals keeps failing.
I'm in a particularly good mood today, so I'll help you out one more time. Democrats have been doing nothing but focus on Trump and Russia. They have no message. Their allies in media have been focusing on Trump and Russia as well. The public has shown in the poll that they think it's a distraction and impacts congressional focus. Do you think this harms Democrats? Do you think I'm wrong about Democrats lacking a message or Democrats only focusing on the Russia angle? Do you actually reject the poll, judging from your wish that the poll showed people just don't like Congress, rather than disliking the rhetoric on Russia? I have a feeling that somewhere deep down you agree with me, but want to sidetrack it to a more pleasant topic for you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
