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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

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ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
July 08 2017 06:14 GMT
#160641
my school was majority minority (40% white, 30% black, 20% asian, 10% other), and over half were on free/reduced lunch. we were also a charter/ magnet with selective admissions - so as long as you met the admissions criteria, it didn't really matter where in the city you lived. 100% went to college.

we had a pretty good number of teachers with PhD's, and probably a couple dozen who'd been with the school for a decade plus. same budget as any other school (maybe even less because people thought we didn't need it).
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
8983 Posts
July 08 2017 06:24 GMT
#160642
I don't know the stats on how many of my peers went to university. I know that the core people of who I knew or interacted with went to some form of higher education afterwards. I could honestly care less about how many out of 630+ students went to school. We were pretty diverse but it was majority white.

I'm getting lost on why this is being talked about. Are we discussing the high schools of a decade ago to now? Or are we talking about solutions to education?
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3188 Posts
July 08 2017 07:09 GMT
#160643
On July 08 2017 08:52 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
Today’s Washington is overrun by two kinds of crimes.

The first is the still-speculative kind, which the Washington press corps obsesses over— Trump -Russia collusion, obstruction of justice—despite no evidence of its existence. By all accounts, special counsel Robert Mueller’s growing team of Democratic lawyers intends to devote itself to this fiction.

Yet if Mr. Mueller were serious about bringing down a threat to the nation, or even carving himself a place in history, he’d be tackling the second kind of crime, the real kind. These are the crimes that occur constantly and actually harm national security, even if they’re routinely ignored by a self-interested media. We are talking of course about the serial leaking of sensitive information, the daily profession of a new government elite akin to an organized crime network.

Lucky for Mr. Mueller, he doesn’t even need his army of legal investigators to get an immediate handle on this mafia. He can instead stroll down to the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Government Affairs. That’s the purview of Sen. Ron Johnson, who keeps dogged oversight of government among his many self-set tasks.

That mission resulted this week in a shocking staff analysis of the recent deluge of secret-spilling, and the manner in which these unauthorized disclosures are harming national security. It’s the first congressional scrutiny of the leaks—and notable for its straight-up nature. This is no partisan document. It’s a bloodless accounting of a national-security failure, perpetrated by dozens of government employees willfully breaking the law.

The first 126 days of the Trump administration featured 125 stories that leaked harmful information. Just under one a day. The committee staff judged the stories against a 2009 Barack Obama executive order that laid out what counted as information likely to damage national security. And as it chose to not include borderline leaks or “palace intrigue” stories, that number is an understatement.

For reference, the first 126 days of the Obama term featured 18 stories that met the criteria. Ten of those were actually leaks about George W. Bush’s “torture memo,” which Mr. Obama released.

The Trump leaks show the sweeping nature of this enterprise, coming as they have from “U.S. officials,” “former U.S. officials,” “senior U.S. officials,” “intelligence officials,” “national security officials,” “Justice Department officials,” “defense officials” and “law-enforcement officials.” One story cited more than two dozen anonymous sources. Alarmingly, the titles, and the nature of the information disclosed, indicate that many leaks are coming directly from the U.S. intelligence community.

What’s been disclosed? The contents of wiretapped information. The names of individuals the U.S. monitors, and where they are located. The communications channels used to monitor targets. Which agencies are monitoring. Intelligence intercepts. FBI interviews. Grand jury subpoenas. Secret surveillance-court details. Internal discussions. Military operations intelligence. The contents of the president’s calls with foreign leaders.

The analysis lays out the real and the assumed fallout. One clear example is the May stories hyperventilating that Mr. Trump shared classified intelligence with the Russians. Subsequent leaks suggested Israel provided the intelligence, about Islamic State. This revelation caused a diplomatic incident, and reportedly a change in the way Israel shares with the U.S. Even former Obama CIA Director John Brennan called the leak “appalling.”

How many foreign allies are pulling back? How many will work with a U.S. government that has disclosed military plans, weapons systems and cybersecurity tactics? What have our enemies learned? One March story divulged sensitive FBI data on U.S. border vulnerabilities, in hopes of undercutting Mr. Trump’s travel order.

The Johnson report doesn’t go here, but let’s go ourselves: This is lawbreaking, in the aid of a political hit job. The leaking syndicate can’t claim whistleblower status, since it has yet to leak a piece of evidence showing Trump wrongdoing. This is about taking out a president. And with a role model like James Comey —who wrote secret memos with the express purpose of leaking and launching a special counsel—that’s no surprise.

But as Mr. Mueller surely knows, the Espionage Act doesn’t trifle with intentions. As even the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service has noted, leaks enjoy “no First Amendment protection, regardless of the motives,” and no accused leaker “has ever been acquitted based on a finding that the public interest was so great” that it justified unlawful disclosure.

Mr. Mueller is sitting astride a leak crime wave, run by a bureaucratic underworld that is happy to harm U.S. interests if it maims a president. He can dig four years into Trump hearsay and innuendo. Or he can, more immediately, take action that would rein in the lawbreakers and restore some calm to the Capitol and the media. That’s how to really promote law and order.

WSJ

"The real story is the constant leaks, not the Trump administration's possible misdeeds" is an old argument, so I don't know that much can be added here. Kwark gave the counterargument sufficiently. But there are several really dumb lines in this piece. I'll point out a couple:

Yet if Mr. Mueller were serious about bringing down a threat to the nation, or even carving himself a place in history, he’d be tackling [the leaks].

Mueller isn't FBI director, he's a special investigator specifically tasked with investigating Russian interference in the 2016 election. His job has literally nothing to do with identifying leakers or preventing leaks. If people were leaking information about his investigation, maybe, but otherwise this line is just plain dumb. And it continues throughout the piece:
Mr. Mueller is sitting astride a leak crime wave, run by a bureaucratic underworld that is happy to harm U.S. interests if it maims a president. He can dig four years into Trump hearsay and innuendo. Or he can, more immediately, take action that would rein in the lawbreakers and restore some calm to the Capitol and the media. That’s how to really promote law and order.
Again, he wasn't hired to promote law and order however he sees fit, he was hired to investigate Russian interference in the 2016 election. If you want to argue that an investigation of Russian interference in the 2016 election isn't warranted, then you can argue that his investigation should be shut down, but this whataboutism falls flat on its face because it's actually just not his job.

The leaking syndicate can’t claim whistleblower status, since it has yet to leak a piece of evidence showing Trump wrongdoing.
This point is overstated to the point of being false. What's dumb is it doesn't need to overstate it so much – the point is just to say that these leaks are illegal, which most people would acknowledge (the question of whether they're justified is separate, and entirely skipped by the article). But many leaks have shown wrongdoing, and arguably some have shown wrongdoing from Trump himself. The leaks about Flynn pretty clearly showed wrongdoing, to the point that Flynn would feel the need to ask for immunity. And by saying "wrongdoing" rather than something like "illegal behavior" it makes behavior like sharing Israel's intelligence with Russia serve as a potential counterexample.

There's a special kind of partisanship to choose phrases like "Robert Mueller’s growing team of Democratic lawyers intends to devote itself to this fiction" or to express indignation about the media telling the world that Trump shared Israeli intel with Russia, and all the damage that did to our country, without even a hint of suggestion that if it's so damaging maybe Trump shouldn't have shared that intel.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23235 Posts
July 08 2017 09:14 GMT
#160644
On July 08 2017 15:24 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
I don't know the stats on how many of my peers went to university. I know that the core people of who I knew or interacted with went to some form of higher education afterwards. I could honestly care less about how many out of 630+ students went to school. We were pretty diverse but it was majority white.

I'm getting lost on why this is being talked about. Are we discussing the high schools of a decade ago to now? Or are we talking about solutions to education?


The way people were talking about education it seemed as if no one commenting ever attended an impoverished school, or one that routinely left 3.0+ students unable to meet the basic requirements of furthering their education. Or that they hadn't seen the absurd disparities between schools in the same district (distorting statistics that usually don't go beyond the district level), or witnessed the modern economic/racial segregated schools.

Or not having experienced it themselves, hadn't done much looking into just how bad a lot of students education opportunities are through no fault of their own.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Uldridge
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Belgium4779 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-08 09:21:49
July 08 2017 09:21 GMT
#160645
Yes, GH, the world is unfair and deterministic, stop making people feel guilty or feel a sense of responsibility for it.
Taxes are for Terrans
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23235 Posts
July 08 2017 09:22 GMT
#160646
On July 08 2017 18:21 Uldridge wrote:
Yes, GH, the world is unfair and deterministic, stop making people feel guilty or feel a sense of responsibility for it.


I don't know you well enough to know if you're being sarcastic or not?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Howie_Dewitt
Profile Joined March 2014
United States1416 Posts
July 08 2017 14:23 GMT
#160647
On July 08 2017 08:27 GreenHorizons wrote:
My high school was/is majority minority, one of the biggest in the state, and graduates ~3/4 students, but only about 1/5 are proficient at math. ~1/2 are reading and writing at grade level, and most of the students qualify for free/reduced lunch.

Anywhere from 5-20% of the teachers are in their first/second year (in a given year). And many teachers are actually sports coaches who "teach" to supplement their income.

The school on the other side of the district is a completely different story.

Did anyone else here go to a school where the majority of students qualified for free/reduced lunch?

I graduated this year from a majority-minority 50+% reduced or free lunch high school, but our school is selective enrollment and held up as Chicago's "see, we like the other races too and case about them equally" example of why they don't need to fund poor schools. We have 98% math proficiency and 96% reading, and I'm pretty sure all of the good minority students from elementary schools are specifically told to apply there to join such a diverse community compared to other selective enrollment schools (35% white, 30% Latinx,15-20% African American, 10% Asian, <10% multiracial)
Sisyphus had a good gig going, the disappointment was predictable. | Visions of the Country (1978) is for when you're lost.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18828 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-08 14:26:50
July 08 2017 14:26 GMT
#160648
Michigan has a fair number of highly selective charters just like Howie_Dewitt describes, and many of them implement an admissions lottery in order to sift through all the people who want to go there. Naturally, the winners of the lottery have a hard time understanding why all the losers would prefer that there not be a lottery at all.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Howie_Dewitt
Profile Joined March 2014
United States1416 Posts
July 08 2017 14:35 GMT
#160649
On July 08 2017 23:26 farvacola wrote:
Michigan has a fair number of highly selective charters just like Howie_Dewitt describes, and many of them implement an admissions lottery in order to sift through all the people who want to go there. Naturally, the winners of the lottery have a hard time understanding why all the losers would prefer that there not be a lottery at all.

To clarify, it's a public school that just has selective enrollment. Anyone living in the city can apply to all selective enrollment schools for free, just put your preferences in the list in order and hope you scored enough points (they have this stupid 900-point system) to get in. It's run by Chicago Public Schools though.

Side note: Illinois is so fucked up literally everything is messed up here to the point where the state college I'm going to (UIUC) almost cancelled a current construction project due to lack of state funding from not having a budget. Like, the street is torn up and there was a bunch of construction stuff everywhere and they almost had to tell the people to leave the street ripped up because no money.
Sisyphus had a good gig going, the disappointment was predictable. | Visions of the Country (1978) is for when you're lost.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18828 Posts
July 08 2017 14:41 GMT
#160650
Yeah, Rahm's Chicago has a very unique hierarchy of public schools that don't do those in favor of public institutions any favor in terms of being a role model lol.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Uldridge
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Belgium4779 Posts
July 08 2017 14:49 GMT
#160651
No, GH, I wasn't being sarcastic. I just know you. And it's probably going to be a few post down the line when you start preaching how you think people posting here should be more vigilant and educated about what's going on (just 30 minutes from them) around them and how you think that's absurd or how you think that they're not doing enough to make things better for people as a whole and to end inequality that's systemically set up.
Or I'm completely wrong and I will apologize for my abhorrent trend analysis. Either way, I'm fed up with hearing/reading sermons without things actually being done. Start doing, stop trying to acquire an echo chamber.
Taxes are for Terrans
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
8983 Posts
July 08 2017 15:13 GMT
#160652
On July 08 2017 23:49 Uldridge wrote:
No, GH, I wasn't being sarcastic. I just know you. And it's probably going to be a few post down the line when you start preaching how you think people posting here should be more vigilant and educated about what's going on (just 30 minutes from them) around them and how you think that's absurd or how you think that they're not doing enough to make things better for people as a whole and to end inequality that's systemically set up.
Or I'm completely wrong and I will apologize for my abhorrent trend analysis. Either way, I'm fed up with hearing/reading sermons without things actually being done. Start doing, stop trying to acquire an echo chamber.

What makes him from throwing that line right back at you? I've asked in this thread the very same thing and got very little response to the question. For all intents and purposes, the best we can do is be aware of it and talk about it. Not just to the people in this thread, but to friends and families. If you or someone you know has children in school systems like this, then you should bring it to their attention that "Hey, you're kid is getting subpar education and here's the data to back that claim up." and be progressive that way. My sister has 2 kids and we always talk about schools for them and where she thinks the best school is. She's very active in talking with teachers to get the best possible education and she fills in any blanks they don't teach them.

tl;dr all we can do (short of donating a school and bringing in the brightest teachers) is talk about it and raise awareness.
Uldridge
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Belgium4779 Posts
July 08 2017 15:29 GMT
#160653
Because I'm not profiling as an ideologue. I don't try to persuade people to think a certain way. I don't make people "aware" by looking at my talking points see if I can get them checked off one by one.

There's a world of difference between talking about what seems to be the best school for the children of your sister and you getting called out on not knowing how shitty the resource allocation of your district is.
Literally any (self) critical is aware of how to be opportunist and find the best (or good enough) stuff for themselves and the people around them.
Again. Raising awareness in this thread is like saying the sky is blue. It is known.
You can't, however, make someone, feel guilty for having gone to a good school while people around you (30 minutes from you) got shitty education (this is at least the tone I feel in the majority of his posts). That's literally out of your power. But whatever, people be preachy if they want, I'm done trying to raise awareness about the fact that this shit makes no difference whatsoever.
Change the system, because it's rotten to the core. Talk to city counsel, replace inept people in power, because even awareness will do jack shit for you in real life when you have the people being flooded with money just to keep things the way it is by instances way more powerful than them. It's so disgusting. My brain is slowly starting to fry because of how fucking poisonous the entirety of what is currently in place actually is. It's very hard to deal with for me and I do have plans to do something about it, but when I see things like GH's preacher bullshit, it simply triggers me to no end. But like I said, I'll stop. I'll let it go. This is my last post about this. If you want to preach that the sky is blue, GH, go for it. See if you make a difference in this board.
Taxes are for Terrans
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-08 15:37:21
July 08 2017 15:36 GMT
#160654
Ivanka Trump sat in for her father at the G20 leader meeting.

www.buzzfeed.com

Pick your source, there are plenty.

[image loading]
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
8983 Posts
July 08 2017 15:47 GMT
#160655
On July 09 2017 00:29 Uldridge wrote:
Because I'm not profiling as an ideologue. I don't try to persuade people to think a certain way. I don't make people "aware" by looking at my talking points see if I can get them checked off one by one.

There's a world of difference between talking about what seems to be the best school for the children of your sister and you getting called out on not knowing how shitty the resource allocation of your district is.
Literally any (self) critical is aware of how to be opportunist and find the best (or good enough) stuff for themselves and the people around them.
Again. Raising awareness in this thread is like saying the sky is blue. It is known.
You can't, however, make someone, feel guilty for having gone to a good school while people around you (30 minutes from you) got shitty education (this is at least the tone I feel in the majority of his posts). That's literally out of your power. But whatever, people be preachy if they want, I'm done trying to raise awareness about the fact that this shit makes no difference whatsoever.
Change the system, because it's rotten to the core. Talk to city counsel, replace inept people in power, because even awareness will do jack shit for you in real life when you have the people being flooded with money just to keep things the way it is by instances way more powerful than them. It's so disgusting. My brain is slowly starting to fry because of how fucking poisonous the entirety of what is currently in place actually is. It's very hard to deal with for me and I do have plans to do something about it, but when I see things like GH's preacher bullshit, it simply triggers me to no end. But like I said, I'll stop. I'll let it go. This is my last post about this. If you want to preach that the sky is blue, GH, go for it. See if you make a difference in this board.

I understand what you said. I understand what you feel. I had a pretty damn good education and when I see kids coming up behind me getting less and less education, I am with you. They are being let down by the system and we as parents/adults should be trying to do the best we can to fix that problem. But when you get people like trump allowing people like devos to run things, you're facing an uphill battle.
Some people can't afford to move to a better district neighborhood for their children to get a better education. They can't afford charter schools either. They want the best and they try to do the best they can but it's not good enough. You hear 'hood success stories. People getting away from the ghetto and becoming a massive success in life. It's just sad it's so rare or underreported/represented.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18828 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-08 16:00:57
July 08 2017 15:54 GMT
#160656
Those success stories also tend to become convenient placeholders for actual progress in terms of access to education regardless of poverty or class. The "school choice" movement does this with the best intentions of otherwise disadvantaged parents when it trumpets the success stories of the few that come at the cost of the many. Yes, allowing students at the margin to "choose" seems fine and dandy, but when the exercise of that choice ends up further taking money away from those many students unable to benefit from the "choice" ostensibly available to them, outcomes don't actually improve. Detroit's charter mess is a great example of this shuffling process in action.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
July 08 2017 15:59 GMT
#160657
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-08 16:06:49
July 08 2017 16:00 GMT
#160658
On July 09 2017 00:36 Nevuk wrote:
Ivanka Trump sat in for her father at the G20 leader meeting.

www.buzzfeed.com

Pick your source, there are plenty.

[image loading]

Banana republic level of USA +10

Also

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/06/26/ivanka-trump-try-to-stay-out-politics.html

LOL

But seriously I wouldn't understand why anyone, republican or democrat would be ok with this, she's not chosen, she's not qualified, it's pure nepotism?
Neosteel Enthusiast
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
July 08 2017 16:02 GMT
#160659
On July 09 2017 00:59 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
https://twitter.com/AP/status/883688007810916352

Not sure what's breaking about that assertion; it's pretty clearly true.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
July 08 2017 16:07 GMT
#160660
On July 09 2017 01:02 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2017 00:59 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
https://twitter.com/AP/status/883688007810916352

Not sure what's breaking about that assertion; it's pretty clearly true.


everything tends to be breaking now. Still official statement though.

also US still can't negotiate trade deals with Britain until 2020 right?
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
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