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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 8000

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
rageprotosscheesy
Profile Joined June 2017
36 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-05 04:16:48
July 05 2017 04:15 GMT
#159981
On July 05 2017 13:04 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2017 12:57 Buckyman wrote:
On July 05 2017 11:53 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
If vetting is too much trouble maybe just dont retweet memes...


The idea that agreeing with one thing a guy said means being held responsible for everything that guy said seems facially absurd. What am I missing?

People 100% believe that. If the President retweets a quote from a white supremacist, they see it as a code that the president is one of them. He might deny it and say he just liked the tweet, but disagrees with everything else. But that doesn't matter, the racists will already "know"the President is just doing that because the media forces them too. That is how people work. There are consequences for speech at all times and whom you decide to quote.


Pretty much. The President of the United States has ZERO grounds to feign ignorance. Trump did an AMA on the_donald subreddit and at least gets images and other catch phrases from there. His team is aware of its existence and definitely reads it.

All this has done is remind everyone that, yes the President of the United States still probably hangs around the shittiest subreddit on Reddit. So shitty that they got run off Voat because Voat has moderator deletion records that can be viewed by public members and the_donald is filled with fragile people who delete anything remotely critical of Trump.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 05 2017 04:22 GMT
#159982
r/the_donald is a racist shit hole and Trump's people were more than happy court the people who go there. And all of the agencies controlled by Trump have suspended civil rights investigations at the federal level, leaving it to the states. They traffic racist parts of the internet and then stop investigations into racism. And for references, "letting the states handle it" is how things like the Jim Crow laws were allowed to exist for so long.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
July 05 2017 04:40 GMT
#159983
On July 05 2017 12:20 LegalLord wrote:
I think a lot of us would also be less willing to share opinions if it were to be tied to our real life personalities. There are things you can say anonymously, and things you can say on the record.


Meh, I've share my opinions, and quite a few TL members know me in real life. It really depends, if you're serious about your opinions, then why be scared? I'm not. I'll meet anybody in person and have a dialogue with them, eve if we don't see eye to eye.

If you're scared of meeting some one in person because of what you said on a forum, then you're nothing but a hypocrite. I've met many people from the internet, and many of them that have been complete opposite of me, but I always try to find common grounds and make it a great time.
Life?
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-05 05:00:29
July 05 2017 05:00 GMT
#159984
On July 05 2017 13:09 Plansix wrote:


In other news, saw this coming. As the digital space becomes less secure at state actors get more aggressive, I except quite a few industries to move back to physical records. And as someone still demands physical invoices all services I purchase, I'm ok with that.


they've always been terrible and insecure by design. The risk from digitizing votes and the manipulation that can come with it isn't worth the trade off. Elections really don't happen that often that you need to change security for convenience. I seriously never understood the hype about electronical voting.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
July 05 2017 05:03 GMT
#159985
On July 05 2017 13:40 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2017 12:20 LegalLord wrote:
I think a lot of us would also be less willing to share opinions if it were to be tied to our real life personalities. There are things you can say anonymously, and things you can say on the record.


Meh, I've share my opinions, and quite a few TL members know me in real life. It really depends, if you're serious about your opinions, then why be scared? I'm not. I'll meet anybody in person and have a dialogue with them, eve if we don't see eye to eye.

If you're scared of meeting some one in person because of what you said on a forum, then you're nothing but a hypocrite. I've met many people from the internet, and many of them that have been complete opposite of me, but I always try to find common grounds and make it a great time.

That's not it. It's a matter of that for some people, your official position is not one for which you should be openly sharing any given opinion in public.

An example you might appreciate: would Trump sharing his Twitter opinions anonymously have a different effect than it does when they are published under his name?
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
July 05 2017 05:36 GMT
#159986
On July 05 2017 14:00 Nyxisto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2017 13:09 Plansix wrote:
https://twitter.com/jennycohn1/status/880643733103853568

In other news, saw this coming. As the digital space becomes less secure at state actors get more aggressive, I except quite a few industries to move back to physical records. And as someone still demands physical invoices all services I purchase, I'm ok with that.


they've always been terrible and insecure by design. The risk from digitizing votes and the manipulation that can come with it isn't worth the trade off. Elections really don't happen that often that you need to change security for convenience. I seriously never understood the hype about electronical voting.

I always thought it was so we could better deliver democracy to other countries by air-dropping voting machines.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11647 Posts
July 05 2017 06:50 GMT
#159987
On July 05 2017 14:00 Nyxisto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2017 13:09 Plansix wrote:
https://twitter.com/jennycohn1/status/880643733103853568

In other news, saw this coming. As the digital space becomes less secure at state actors get more aggressive, I except quite a few industries to move back to physical records. And as someone still demands physical invoices all services I purchase, I'm ok with that.


they've always been terrible and insecure by design. The risk from digitizing votes and the manipulation that can come with it isn't worth the trade off. Elections really don't happen that often that you need to change security for convenience. I seriously never understood the hype about electronical voting.


I am not even sure that the main problem is "real" insecurity. It is enough if people are not sure that they are secure. If you vote on a machine, i think that for a lot of people there is less of a connect of that process to the result of the vote. No matter what anyone tells them about security, it is still perceived as very possible that the machines just give back any result they want.

With paper voting, you drop your vote in a box, and then real people count the votes in the box multiple times. Sure, you can manipulate that, too. But the security against that is something that people understand. While the security of a voting machine is just a complete mystery that might or might not work, but you have no way to see if it is manipulated or not.
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
July 05 2017 06:56 GMT
#159988
On July 05 2017 12:57 Buckyman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2017 11:53 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
If vetting is too much trouble maybe just dont retweet memes...


The idea that agreeing with one thing a guy said means being held responsible for everything that guy said seems facially absurd. What am I missing?

Basically what Plansix said above.

I'll just add that I think the absurd level of influence that comes with his position, also carries a greater burden of responsibility, as the saying (sort of) goes. Even I try to make sure I don't accidentally like or retweet stuff from people too far out there, just because I do not want that association, and I'm not famous.

Being inconvenienced in this way, possibly to the point where retweeting memes is not worth it once you've weighed up all the effort, seems to me a small price to pay, all things considered.

Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18132 Posts
July 05 2017 07:08 GMT
#159989
On July 05 2017 12:57 Buckyman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2017 11:53 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
If vetting is too much trouble maybe just dont retweet memes...


The idea that agreeing with one thing a guy said means being held responsible for everything that guy said seems facially absurd. What am I missing?

If you selectively quote from Hitler, you might just be doing it because the man was a charismatic rhetorician. But people will still see it as you agreeing with Hitler's general body of work and ideology...
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23491 Posts
July 05 2017 08:06 GMT
#159990
On July 05 2017 14:00 Nyxisto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2017 13:09 Plansix wrote:
https://twitter.com/jennycohn1/status/880643733103853568

In other news, saw this coming. As the digital space becomes less secure at state actors get more aggressive, I except quite a few industries to move back to physical records. And as someone still demands physical invoices all services I purchase, I'm ok with that.


they've always been terrible and insecure by design. The risk from digitizing votes and the manipulation that can come with it isn't worth the trade off. Elections really don't happen that often that you need to change security for convenience. I seriously never understood the hype about electronical voting.


Mostly because of the rapid result and presumed rapid voting. The idea sold in America was that it was impossible to have a paper system that wouldn't result in multi-hour waits for poor black people. SO we put electronic machines everywhere poor black people weren't in order to increase efficiency.

Turns out that they aren't more efficient on the voting side at all, and then all the shitty machines got moved to poor black areas and places people wanted to reduce the overall vote.

Besides that they happen to be owned by people with a vested interest in the outcomes and coincidentally happen to favor the preferred candidate of the owners of the machines.

So now we have a variety of voting machines but a lower turnout and longer/the same absurd wait times. But the results seem to be better for those who have an interest in the scheme.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4361 Posts
July 05 2017 12:41 GMT
#159991
CNN going after the kid who made the dumb wrestling meme to me just shows how out of touch they are.Should have just stayed with the short editorial rightly saying how it was undignified to have the President tweet out such things on his official presidential account.Continue your slow fade to irrelevance with a little more dignity CNN.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
July 05 2017 12:47 GMT
#159992
Yep, "poor" kid that suddenly got a little too internet famous for his views to hold up to scrutiny.
passive quaranstream fan
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-05 13:30:10
July 05 2017 12:56 GMT
#159993
On July 05 2017 14:00 Nyxisto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2017 13:09 Plansix wrote:
https://twitter.com/jennycohn1/status/880643733103853568

In other news, saw this coming. As the digital space becomes less secure at state actors get more aggressive, I except quite a few industries to move back to physical records. And as someone still demands physical invoices all services I purchase, I'm ok with that.


they've always been terrible and insecure by design. The risk from digitizing votes and the manipulation that can come with it isn't worth the trade off. Elections really don't happen that often that you need to change security for convenience. I seriously never understood the hype about electronical voting.


How are they any less terrible or insecure than paper ballots? I could just as easily count the votes wrong or add or remove paper ballots from the count. We live in a digital age. What industry hasn't changed to adapt to the digital world and why do you think that voting shouldn't and won't also get that upgrade?

On July 05 2017 15:50 Simberto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2017 14:00 Nyxisto wrote:
On July 05 2017 13:09 Plansix wrote:
https://twitter.com/jennycohn1/status/880643733103853568

In other news, saw this coming. As the digital space becomes less secure at state actors get more aggressive, I except quite a few industries to move back to physical records. And as someone still demands physical invoices all services I purchase, I'm ok with that.


they've always been terrible and insecure by design. The risk from digitizing votes and the manipulation that can come with it isn't worth the trade off. Elections really don't happen that often that you need to change security for convenience. I seriously never understood the hype about electronical voting.


I am not even sure that the main problem is "real" insecurity. It is enough if people are not sure that they are secure. If you vote on a machine, i think that for a lot of people there is less of a connect of that process to the result of the vote. No matter what anyone tells them about security, it is still perceived as very possible that the machines just give back any result they want.

With paper voting, you drop your vote in a box, and then real people count the votes in the box multiple times. Sure, you can manipulate that, too. But the security against that is something that people understand. While the security of a voting machine is just a complete mystery that might or might not work, but you have no way to see if it is manipulated or not.


Do people actually count the ballets or does a machine scan them? The latter is how it works where I live at least. I don't see why you'd trust a machine to count a paper ballot, but be unable to cut out the paper part.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 05 2017 13:02 GMT
#159994
How terrible that his actions have consequences. And CNN is so evil since they decided to withhold his real name and personal information after he apologized. Which is nice of them considering the amount of racist poop he posted all over reddit. We all should hope to be lucky enough to get a second chance after screwing up as bad as this kid.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 05 2017 13:07 GMT
#159995
Somewhat old news but a ray of good news that is this shitty situation as of late.

The city of Williamstown plans to reject a request from the Ark Encounter claiming exemption from a recently implemented safety assessment tax on the grounds that it is a religious entity, the Grant County News reports.

The tax collects a 50-cent charge on tickets in admission-based businesses within the city of Williamstown, and currently affects only three businesses: the Ark Encounter, Williamstown Family Fun Park and Main Street Gardens.

In April, the proprietors of a gigantic wooden Noah’s Ark in Williamstown said they were “blindsided” by the tax and said they might consider raising ticket prices.

The tax does not apply to non-profit, religious, and charitable events and organizations.

The city plans to use revenue collected from the fee to fund upgraded emergency response equipment to better serve Williamstown’s needs as a growing tourist destination.

The city’s budget estimates $715,000 in revenue from the safety assessment fee, which begins collecting from the three businesses on a monthly basis beginning July 1. The park opened last July, promising a surge of economic development. But nearby residents and businesses say that flood of customers hasn’t materialized. Ken Ham, CEO and president of Answers in Genesis/Ark Encounter, disputed those claims.

About $700,000 of the projected revenue is from the Ark Encounter, based on the projected 1.4 million in attendance at the tourist attraction. Representatives from the Ark Encounter initially said they would request an exemption from the fee if the city intended to collect more than $350,000 from the business, according to Williamstown Mayor Rick Skinner.

According to the letter sent by John E. Pence, secretary general for Answers in Genesis, the Ark Encounter was organized exclusively for religious purposes, and is solely owned and operated by Crosswater Canyon, a Kentucky non-profit corporation which is recognized as a tax-exempt religious organization and public charity under Section 501(c)(3) religious organizations and public charity.

“Both Ark Encounter and Crosswater Canyon are clearly religious organizations,” the letter reads. “The Ark Encounter project was designed to factually present the biblical and historical truths of the Bible, including the biblical accounts of Noah and the Ark, the message of salvation through Jesus Christ, and other biblical truths revealed in Scripture, through the Ark’s exhibits and guest experiences. Crosswater Canyon was organized exclusively to support the religious mission and purposes of Answers in Genesis, and to own and manage the Ark Encounter for Answers in Genesis.”

Answers in Genesis co-founder and chief communications officer Mark Looy said that visitors to the Ark Encounter clearly recognize it as a religiously run attraction with a religious purpose, and that the organization filed the appeal because they feel the business should be exempt.

“We simply applied for the exemption that is allowed under the specific wording of the safety assessment fee ordinance as it was adopted, as you would expect other exempted organizations to do,” Looy said.

Skinner and the other Williamstown City Council members voiced their disagreement with the exemption request; with councilman Kim Crupper noting that the Ark Encounter operates on a for-profit status. City Attorney Jeff Shipp said the organization’s corporate filings in Missouri indicate that they are a for-profit corporation. Shipp said he would craft a formal response to the appeal sometime in the coming week.

“We’ve done our research … and everything that we have found is that they are a for-profit company,” Skinner said.

Looy confirmed that the Ark Encounter is a for-profit entity, but reiterated that it is wholly owned by Crosswater Canyon, a non-profit organization. Looy said that even though the Ark Encounter is established as a for-profit subsidiary of Crosswater Canyon, the Ark Encounter is a religious organization, and therefore qualifies for the exemption.

When asked what the organization planned to do should their exemption request be denied, Looy said: “We are still considering our options.”

Answers in Genesis Co-Founder Mike Zovath met with Skinner on June 27 to discuss solutions to the issue, but no agreement was reached.

The Ark Encounter is situated in a Tax Increment Financing zone, an area designated by local governments intended to attract developers.

Skinner said the council plans to discuss the issue at their July 10 meeting, and added that representatives from the Ark Encounter will likely attend to present their case.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
JinDesu
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3990 Posts
July 05 2017 13:09 GMT
#159996
On July 05 2017 22:02 Plansix wrote:
How terrible that his actions have consequences. And CNN is so evil since they decided to withhold his real name and personal information after he apologized. Which is nice of them considering the amount of racist poop he posted all over reddit. We all should hope to be lucky enough to get a second chance after screwing up as bad as this kid.


If they didn't say they might release his info pending his future actions, then it might have been ok. But for CNN to put in print - "CNN reserves the right to publish his identity should any of that change." - is completely wrong in my opinion. That is not the right way, and CNN should have never gone to that extent.
Yargh
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 05 2017 13:22 GMT
#159997
On July 05 2017 22:09 JinDesu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2017 22:02 Plansix wrote:
How terrible that his actions have consequences. And CNN is so evil since they decided to withhold his real name and personal information after he apologized. Which is nice of them considering the amount of racist poop he posted all over reddit. We all should hope to be lucky enough to get a second chance after screwing up as bad as this kid.


If they didn't say they might release his info pending his future actions, then it might have been ok. But for CNN to put in print - "CNN reserves the right to publish his identity should any of that change." - is completely wrong in my opinion. That is not the right way, and CNN should have never gone to that extent.

CNN is under no obligation to protect him from his own writings on reddit. They stated that they did not intent to release his information, but reserved the right to do so in the future. I don’t feel bad for him at all. It is easy to forget that less than a month ago someone tried to murder a bunch of congress members. So I do not blame CNN for making it clear they didn’t see that meme as a joke.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Sadist
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States7291 Posts
July 05 2017 13:37 GMT
#159998
On July 05 2017 22:22 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2017 22:09 JinDesu wrote:
On July 05 2017 22:02 Plansix wrote:
How terrible that his actions have consequences. And CNN is so evil since they decided to withhold his real name and personal information after he apologized. Which is nice of them considering the amount of racist poop he posted all over reddit. We all should hope to be lucky enough to get a second chance after screwing up as bad as this kid.


If they didn't say they might release his info pending his future actions, then it might have been ok. But for CNN to put in print - "CNN reserves the right to publish his identity should any of that change." - is completely wrong in my opinion. That is not the right way, and CNN should have never gone to that extent.

CNN is under no obligation to protect him from his own writings on reddit. They stated that they did not intent to release his information, but reserved the right to do so in the future. I don’t feel bad for him at all. It is easy to forget that less than a month ago someone tried to murder a bunch of congress members. So I do not blame CNN for making it clear they didn’t see that meme as a joke.



I think the people saying this was a call for violence against the media need to get real.


Memes like this are used all over sports forums on the internet amongst other places. LSUFreak is pretty widely known for them.

Complaining about this leads to boy cried wolf syndrome. The Donald is a cesspool but you need to pick your battles.
How do you go from where you are to where you want to be? I think you have to have an enthusiasm for life. You have to have a dream, a goal and you have to be willing to work for it. Jim Valvano
JinDesu
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3990 Posts
July 05 2017 13:38 GMT
#159999
On July 05 2017 22:22 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2017 22:09 JinDesu wrote:
On July 05 2017 22:02 Plansix wrote:
How terrible that his actions have consequences. And CNN is so evil since they decided to withhold his real name and personal information after he apologized. Which is nice of them considering the amount of racist poop he posted all over reddit. We all should hope to be lucky enough to get a second chance after screwing up as bad as this kid.


If they didn't say they might release his info pending his future actions, then it might have been ok. But for CNN to put in print - "CNN reserves the right to publish his identity should any of that change." - is completely wrong in my opinion. That is not the right way, and CNN should have never gone to that extent.

CNN is under no obligation to protect him from his own writings on reddit. They stated that they did not intent to release his information, but reserved the right to do so in the future. I don’t feel bad for him at all. It is easy to forget that less than a month ago someone tried to murder a bunch of congress members. So I do not blame CNN for making it clear they didn’t see that meme as a joke.


This, in my opinion, is wrong. For a large corporation to hold hostage my personal info and give me a veiled threat that it can be released if I don't comply - that's wrong. If his info was exposed by someone, or if reddit detectives posted his info, so be it. If CNN told him about it but did not make the threat, fine. But that threat - that is wrong to me.
Yargh
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-05 13:40:19
July 05 2017 13:38 GMT
#160000
On July 05 2017 14:00 Nyxisto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2017 13:09 Plansix wrote:
https://twitter.com/jennycohn1/status/880643733103853568

In other news, saw this coming. As the digital space becomes less secure at state actors get more aggressive, I except quite a few industries to move back to physical records. And as someone still demands physical invoices all services I purchase, I'm ok with that.


they've always been terrible and insecure by design. The risk from digitizing votes and the manipulation that can come with it isn't worth the trade off. Elections really don't happen that often that you need to change security for convenience. I seriously never understood the hype about electronical voting.

We had them but stopped using them when people rightfully complained about the risks. The return of voting machines keeps popping up here but luckily so far action groups have been convincing enough to stop them from reappearing. But for some reason people really really want to know the result on the early evening news instead of waiting one day for the counts to finish. 1 day saved every 2 years. It's a really dumb reason for automation and to risk vote manipulation by hardware or software hacking. Still every election people complain about 'it's 2017 why do we have pencils omg'

Not to mention we still haven't formed a government 3 months later so the day saved is even less relevant

Neosteel Enthusiast
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