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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 7890

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
June 17 2017 23:09 GMT
#157781
On June 18 2017 06:42 Nevuk wrote:
I found the overtime segment of Maher's show to be pretty fascinating this week. It had Malcolm Nance, Eddie izzard, and an editor for brietbart on. Mostly because this was a group of people that were pretty much never going to interact otherwise - Nance thinks brietbart is responsible for him getting 31 death threats, the brietbart editor thinks Nance is hysterical, etc. It covers a lot of ground around political rhetoric from both sides. Maher makes a pretty idiotic point towards the end, but the rest is interesting at the least.



And to round up the panel is the village idiot Ian Bremmer.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Kadungon
Profile Joined June 2017
41 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-17 23:44:20
June 17 2017 23:30 GMT
#157782
While every 10th word that comes out of Trump's mouth is a lie, that doesn't mean every story and rumour about him is true. The whole deliberate collusion with Russia by Trump seemed far-fetched. It is much more likely that Trump, by his own paranoid megalomania and utter incompetence, just keeps incriminating himself for stuff he didn't do. It is a fact that Trump acts like he colluded with the Russians. But that is likely to be is utter incompetence. The old 'the cover-up is worse than the crime' but then Trumpain style.

But, now we know from they Comey testimony that Trump went out of his way to deny to Comey that he met hookers in Moscow. Why would he do that? All these random accusations that later on turn out to be true, Trump comes out and confirms them by going out of his way to deny them. It is a clear pattern. Trump cannot help himself.

I still find it hard to believe, but Comey saying that Trump talked to him specifically about this indicates that Trump worries about it being true. I always through that Trump was so defensive about this because he did money laundering for the mob or because he made deals with criminals, or engaged in corruption. But day by day it seems more likely Trump engaged in treason.

Maybe Trump is just even more idiotic than I currently believe.

And no matter what you believe, you do have to worry about his mental health. It is very telling that he keeps Ivanka and Kushner so close. He simply does not trust anyone else around him. And in a sense that is logical. No one with integrity would associate with him. He really must be in a similar bubble as the classical insane dictator, who no one dares to talk truth to and everyone tries to maneuver around. All people close to Trump must all be thinking about how they can get fool Trump to do what they personally want. And if that last another three years, that must be a complete disaster for the US and for the GOP.

On the other hand, the approval points that Trump still gets from some people, it isn't changing. Those people don't change their mind. It doesn't matter to them how incompetent of corrupt the president of the US is. Apparently, they approve or disapprove of people by a completely different standard. And those people will still have the right to vote during the next elections.

Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
June 18 2017 01:01 GMT
#157783
On June 18 2017 08:09 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2017 06:42 Nevuk wrote:
I found the overtime segment of Maher's show to be pretty fascinating this week. It had Malcolm Nance, Eddie izzard, and an editor for brietbart on. Mostly because this was a group of people that were pretty much never going to interact otherwise - Nance thinks brietbart is responsible for him getting 31 death threats, the brietbart editor thinks Nance is hysterical, etc. It covers a lot of ground around political rhetoric from both sides. Maher makes a pretty idiotic point towards the end, but the rest is interesting at the least.

https://youtu.be/inJXUHC0llY


And to round up the panel is the village idiot Ian Bremmer.

Who is he, anyways? He's seemed very bland and milquetoast every time I've heard him speak but he still shows up on talkshows occasionally.
TheLordofAwesome
Profile Joined May 2014
Korea (South)2656 Posts
June 18 2017 01:53 GMT
#157784
I am willing to put money on Trump either firing Mueller, or firing someone who refuses to fire Mueller.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
June 18 2017 02:06 GMT
#157785
On June 18 2017 10:53 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
I am willing to put money on Trump either firing Mueller, or firing someone who refuses to fire Mueller.

I can't find that on the betting sites.

on bremmer: I don't know muhc about him, other than that he has a column in time, and seemed fairly bland and reasonable from what little I've seen of him.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
June 18 2017 02:26 GMT
#157786


"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
June 18 2017 04:02 GMT
#157787
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
June 18 2017 04:09 GMT
#157788
Note at no point did DHS officially offer him a job

"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-18 04:14:18
June 18 2017 04:13 GMT
#157789
On June 18 2017 13:02 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/876282348916146176

Why bother caring about something bad if it doesn't affect you?
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
June 18 2017 05:04 GMT
#157790
On June 18 2017 13:13 NewSunshine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2017 13:02 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/876282348916146176

Why bother caring about something bad if it doesn't affect you?

Have you ever heard of the word empathy?

I actually hope you were being sarcastic, because I don't want to put you on the same level as Trump.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
June 18 2017 05:12 GMT
#157791
On June 18 2017 14:04 Amui wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2017 13:13 NewSunshine wrote:
On June 18 2017 13:02 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/876282348916146176

Why bother caring about something bad if it doesn't affect you?

Have you ever heard of the word empathy?

I actually hope you were being sarcastic, because I don't want to put you on the same level as Trump.

I was, pardon if it didn't communicate.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24385 Posts
June 18 2017 10:19 GMT
#157792
On June 18 2017 14:12 NewSunshine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2017 14:04 Amui wrote:
On June 18 2017 13:13 NewSunshine wrote:
On June 18 2017 13:02 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/876282348916146176

Why bother caring about something bad if it doesn't affect you?

Have you ever heard of the word empathy?

I actually hope you were being sarcastic, because I don't want to put you on the same level as Trump.

I was, pardon if it didn't communicate.


You were being sarcastic but that's quite literally what has been argued here more than once by several people, just a different issue.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France8198 Posts
June 18 2017 11:04 GMT
#157793
On June 18 2017 19:19 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2017 14:12 NewSunshine wrote:
On June 18 2017 14:04 Amui wrote:
On June 18 2017 13:13 NewSunshine wrote:
On June 18 2017 13:02 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/876282348916146176

Why bother caring about something bad if it doesn't affect you?

Have you ever heard of the word empathy?

I actually hope you were being sarcastic, because I don't want to put you on the same level as Trump.

I was, pardon if it didn't communicate.


You were being sarcastic but that's quite literally what has been argued here more than once by several people, just a different issue.

Oh, but they never *quite* put it that way.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7032 Posts
June 18 2017 11:56 GMT
#157794
On June 17 2017 17:32 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2017 10:27 Plansix wrote:
Rape isn't like getting caught in the rain. It's not something you avoid, like the flu or late fees. Someone breaks into my home, no one asks if I had to many windows and was asking for it.

Some devil's advocating here:

Actually, a friend of mine's house got broken into (in Brazil). And we kinda looked at how he said they got in and figured it was stupidly easy. We advised him to move, because if it was that easy once, it'd be that easy a second time too.

After the second time they broke in, he did move. There's obviously traits that make you more or less likely to be a victim, and trying to reduce those traits seems fairly normal behavior. It doesn't mean you're to blame.

But the problem is that while this helps your friend be safer, it doesn't help the next person living in the house. I always feel this way when people advise women to do this or that: maybe it would technically make them less likely to be targeted (at the cost of personal freedom), but it hardly reduces the total number of sexual crime, hence on a macro level it is useless at best, and enabling victim blaming at worst.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
ragz_gt
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
9172 Posts
June 18 2017 14:36 GMT
#157795
On June 18 2017 20:56 Grumbels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2017 17:32 Acrofales wrote:
On June 17 2017 10:27 Plansix wrote:
Rape isn't like getting caught in the rain. It's not something you avoid, like the flu or late fees. Someone breaks into my home, no one asks if I had to many windows and was asking for it.

Some devil's advocating here:

Actually, a friend of mine's house got broken into (in Brazil). And we kinda looked at how he said they got in and figured it was stupidly easy. We advised him to move, because if it was that easy once, it'd be that easy a second time too.

After the second time they broke in, he did move. There's obviously traits that make you more or less likely to be a victim, and trying to reduce those traits seems fairly normal behavior. It doesn't mean you're to blame.

But the problem is that while this helps your friend be safer, it doesn't help the next person living in the house. I always feel this way when people advise women to do this or that: maybe it would technically make them less likely to be targeted (at the cost of personal freedom), but it hardly reduces the total number of sexual crime, hence on a macro level it is useless at best, and enabling victim blaming at worst.


Also it doesn't really apply in this case as IIRC only a small % of rape are by strangers.
I'm not an otaku, I'm a specialist.
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3304 Posts
June 18 2017 14:38 GMT
#157796
On June 18 2017 20:04 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2017 19:19 GreenHorizons wrote:
On June 18 2017 14:12 NewSunshine wrote:
On June 18 2017 14:04 Amui wrote:
On June 18 2017 13:13 NewSunshine wrote:
On June 18 2017 13:02 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/876282348916146176

Why bother caring about something bad if it doesn't affect you?

Have you ever heard of the word empathy?

I actually hope you were being sarcastic, because I don't want to put you on the same level as Trump.

I was, pardon if it didn't communicate.


You were being sarcastic but that's quite literally what has been argued here more than once by several people, just a different issue.

Oh, but they never *quite* put it that way.

On January 17 2017 13:53 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2017 13:24 Nyxisto wrote:
Shouldn't neglect the billion people or so that the dreaded globalisation has lifted out of absolute poverty

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


The more genuine interpretation I think would be to say that the 1% are cashing in the dividends, not the lion's share. I mean pretty much the only group that really suffers is the industrial boomer generation in the developed world.

Say that the trouble of Westerners really is to the benefit of billions of third worlders. Here's a callous question: why should we care about them? Such is the question anyone who sees "our people" and "their people" as a reality would be asking. And nationalism certainly isn't going anywhere.

That's the closest I remember, although LL is more attributing it to nationalists than saying it himself. I'm sure others have said just about the same thing but from their own perspectives before.

Not the issue GH is referring to, I think.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18462 Posts
June 18 2017 15:05 GMT
#157797
On June 18 2017 20:56 Grumbels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2017 17:32 Acrofales wrote:
On June 17 2017 10:27 Plansix wrote:
Rape isn't like getting caught in the rain. It's not something you avoid, like the flu or late fees. Someone breaks into my home, no one asks if I had to many windows and was asking for it.

Some devil's advocating here:

Actually, a friend of mine's house got broken into (in Brazil). And we kinda looked at how he said they got in and figured it was stupidly easy. We advised him to move, because if it was that easy once, it'd be that easy a second time too.

After the second time they broke in, he did move. There's obviously traits that make you more or less likely to be a victim, and trying to reduce those traits seems fairly normal behavior. It doesn't mean you're to blame.

But the problem is that while this helps your friend be safer, it doesn't help the next person living in the house. I always feel this way when people advise women to do this or that: maybe it would technically make them less likely to be targeted (at the cost of personal freedom), but it hardly reduces the total number of sexual crime, hence on a macro level it is useless at best, and enabling victim blaming at worst.

Err, I wasn't addressing rape at all. I was addressing the police shooting innocent people discussion. How it segued to rape at all is beyond me, and a discussion I am really tired of having in this thread.

And there is an important difference between police shootings and burglary (or rape by strangers): while the burglar is looking for the easiest house to burgle, the police officer is (presumably) not looking for some innocent victim to shoot. He's just incredibly badly trained for his job and fucks up in a big way. So while in the case of burglary you are completely correct: all you're doing by treating the symptoms (making your house safer/moving) is making yourself safe rather than society as a whole, if there's some specific way to behave in order to not get shot by policemen, that will result in less innocent people getting shot by policemen, because policemen don't actually want to shoot innocent people.

That said, the root cause in most of these cases is quite clearly not in the victim's behaviour, but in having trigger-happy police in the first place. Why that's the case, I have seen a few pretty good reasons put forward here in the thread. Insufficient training and overequipping with war weaponry seem like primary causes. Combined with a lack of accountability that sounds like a recipe for disaster.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
June 18 2017 15:10 GMT
#157798
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
June 18 2017 15:31 GMT
#157799

As we learn every festival season, and all other seasons too, there's still a lot of confusion around the difference between appreciation and appropriation. There could soon be a strong incentive to get educated: jail time. Because being called out on the internet doesn't seem to be stopping the proliferation of runway chola bangs and high street Navajo panties.

Indigenous groups around the world are currently calling on the United Nations to make the appropriation of native cultures illegal, reports CBA News. A special committee has been asking for sanctions since 2001, long before Twitter and Instagram became the default ways for offended communities to call out BS and make their cases heard. This week, though, the ball is really getting rolling. Delegates from 189 countries are currently meeting in Geneva as part of a specialized international committee within the UN's World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO).

The committee is pushing for three pieces of international law to put sanctions place. This will expand international property regulations to protect indigenous property ranging from designs to language. The UN should "obligate states to create effective criminal and civil enforcement procedures to recognize and prevent the non-consensual taking and illegitimate possession, sale and export of traditional cultural expressions," James Anaya, dean of law at the University of Colorado, told the committee. Anaya took explicit aim at Urban Outfitters's aforementioned Navajo line, which resulted in the Navajo Nation slapping the company with a lawsuit in 2012. (The case was eventually settled out of court.)
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
June 18 2017 16:28 GMT
#157800
On June 19 2017 00:10 Doodsmack wrote:
https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/876408840983543809


It probably helped that someone fed his delusion by saying his approval ratings were better than Obama's.
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