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On May 22 2017 03:19 Mysticesper wrote:
I also think it's easier to have a smaller, more efficient government when your country is much smaller too in both land mass and population.
isn't it usually the other way around? The more people you have, the more you can get done just once for everyone without having every state figure out a solution themselves, thus the cheaper it gets?
Sure I can see that more government looking after things increases cost in some way but if that directly leads to cost decrease on lower levels, for every state because they have one less issue to deal with it's at the very least more complex than "it just gets more expensive with more people"
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On May 22 2017 03:28 Yurie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2017 03:21 warding wrote:On May 22 2017 03:12 Gorsameth wrote:On May 22 2017 03:07 warding wrote:On May 21 2017 20:43 Simberto wrote:
The weird thing is that currently, the US still pays more government money for healthcare than most other countries which have universal healthcare. Despite all of the employer policies and the people having to pay for their own insurance, your government still pays the same amount that the governments of countries with universal healthcare do. You just get less for your money. And then you pay more out of your own pocket to still get less. I find this really mind boggling. In Portugal we have a public system that is nearly free for everyone and a private system where insurance costs between 30-65€ per month - the higher tiers include dental plans. Most drugs are also subsidized so they tend to be affordable. And yet the public expenditure in health is 8.3% of GDP in the US vs 6.2% in PT, while the population over 65 is 15% in US vs 21% here. Meanwhile, the US government also spends more than the OECD average on education as % of GDP and yet they're mediocre inn the PISA rankings and tertiary education costs a fortune. This also reminded me of a recent article (Economist) about how the costs per mile of building a subway line we're much higher in the US than in other countries and it all came down to public governance. Are Europeans just better at building more efficient public institutions? If so why? Because Europeans do not have a massive distrust for anything related to government. Because we don't have half our political system dedicated to getting rid of government? (unless it concerns your bedroom). Maybe. While that is still under debate, making the system more efficient becomes a secondary problem. I wouldn't exclude the democratic party from scrutiny though - the reason public governance is often poor is due topolitical capture by corporatist interests like teachers unions. Unions are amongst the main donors of the democratic party. Don't see why Unions would be a major factor in the US compared to many EU nations. From Wiki it seems the US is much less unionised than most other Western nations. Show nested quote + By 1989, that figure had dropped to about 16%, the lowest percentage of any developed democracy, except France. Union membership for other developed democracies, in 1986/87 were:[1]
95% in Sweden and Denmark.
85% in Finland
Over 60% in Norway and Austria
Over 50% in Australia, Ireland and the United Kingdom.
Over 40% in Italy.
Over 30% in West Germany.
Usa healthcare costs are ridiculous compared to those of other western countries,i imagine due to a variety of reasons.
-high cost of education,the doctors have to pay back these costs so this pushes up the income they need to sustain themselves
-Absurd payouts when doctors make a medical error,forcing doctors to take very expensive insurance against this.
-Big farma,giving doctors bonuses if they use their expensive medicine instead of some generic medicine.
-And last but not least the insurance sector as a whole,who has almost no incentive to keep cost down. If cost go up,they simply go along and rise what people have to pay for their insurance.
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this seems like a guy who you want to be the wife of the Vatican ambassador
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On May 22 2017 04:46 pmh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2017 03:28 Yurie wrote:On May 22 2017 03:21 warding wrote:On May 22 2017 03:12 Gorsameth wrote:On May 22 2017 03:07 warding wrote:On May 21 2017 20:43 Simberto wrote:
The weird thing is that currently, the US still pays more government money for healthcare than most other countries which have universal healthcare. Despite all of the employer policies and the people having to pay for their own insurance, your government still pays the same amount that the governments of countries with universal healthcare do. You just get less for your money. And then you pay more out of your own pocket to still get less. I find this really mind boggling. In Portugal we have a public system that is nearly free for everyone and a private system where insurance costs between 30-65€ per month - the higher tiers include dental plans. Most drugs are also subsidized so they tend to be affordable. And yet the public expenditure in health is 8.3% of GDP in the US vs 6.2% in PT, while the population over 65 is 15% in US vs 21% here. Meanwhile, the US government also spends more than the OECD average on education as % of GDP and yet they're mediocre inn the PISA rankings and tertiary education costs a fortune. This also reminded me of a recent article (Economist) about how the costs per mile of building a subway line we're much higher in the US than in other countries and it all came down to public governance. Are Europeans just better at building more efficient public institutions? If so why? Because Europeans do not have a massive distrust for anything related to government. Because we don't have half our political system dedicated to getting rid of government? (unless it concerns your bedroom). Maybe. While that is still under debate, making the system more efficient becomes a secondary problem. I wouldn't exclude the democratic party from scrutiny though - the reason public governance is often poor is due topolitical capture by corporatist interests like teachers unions. Unions are amongst the main donors of the democratic party. Don't see why Unions would be a major factor in the US compared to many EU nations. From Wiki it seems the US is much less unionised than most other Western nations. By 1989, that figure had dropped to about 16%, the lowest percentage of any developed democracy, except France. Union membership for other developed democracies, in 1986/87 were:[1]
95% in Sweden and Denmark.
85% in Finland
Over 60% in Norway and Austria
Over 50% in Australia, Ireland and the United Kingdom.
Over 40% in Italy.
Over 30% in West Germany.
Usa healthcare costs are ridiculous compared to those of other western countries,i imagine due to a variety of reasons. -high cost of education,the doctors have to pay back these costs so this pushes up the income they need to sustain themselves -Absurd payouts when doctors make a medical error,forcing doctors to take very expensive insurance against this. -Big farma,giving doctors bonuses if they use their expensive medicine instead of some generic medicine. -And last but not least the insurance sector as a whole,who has almost no incentive to keep cost down. If cost go up,they simply go along and rise what people have to pay for their insurance.
How is it the insurance industries job to keep costs down? Their costs reflect the health care costs going up. Its the healthcare industry that has no incentive to keep costs down. They are the reason insurance is at the price it is.
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They are so fucked. For once there really is a concrete record of Trump's statements I guess.
On May 22 2017 07:51 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2017 04:46 pmh wrote:On May 22 2017 03:28 Yurie wrote:On May 22 2017 03:21 warding wrote:On May 22 2017 03:12 Gorsameth wrote:On May 22 2017 03:07 warding wrote:On May 21 2017 20:43 Simberto wrote:
The weird thing is that currently, the US still pays more government money for healthcare than most other countries which have universal healthcare. Despite all of the employer policies and the people having to pay for their own insurance, your government still pays the same amount that the governments of countries with universal healthcare do. You just get less for your money. And then you pay more out of your own pocket to still get less. I find this really mind boggling. In Portugal we have a public system that is nearly free for everyone and a private system where insurance costs between 30-65€ per month - the higher tiers include dental plans. Most drugs are also subsidized so they tend to be affordable. And yet the public expenditure in health is 8.3% of GDP in the US vs 6.2% in PT, while the population over 65 is 15% in US vs 21% here. Meanwhile, the US government also spends more than the OECD average on education as % of GDP and yet they're mediocre inn the PISA rankings and tertiary education costs a fortune. This also reminded me of a recent article (Economist) about how the costs per mile of building a subway line we're much higher in the US than in other countries and it all came down to public governance. Are Europeans just better at building more efficient public institutions? If so why? Because Europeans do not have a massive distrust for anything related to government. Because we don't have half our political system dedicated to getting rid of government? (unless it concerns your bedroom). Maybe. While that is still under debate, making the system more efficient becomes a secondary problem. I wouldn't exclude the democratic party from scrutiny though - the reason public governance is often poor is due topolitical capture by corporatist interests like teachers unions. Unions are amongst the main donors of the democratic party. Don't see why Unions would be a major factor in the US compared to many EU nations. From Wiki it seems the US is much less unionised than most other Western nations. By 1989, that figure had dropped to about 16%, the lowest percentage of any developed democracy, except France. Union membership for other developed democracies, in 1986/87 were:[1]
95% in Sweden and Denmark.
85% in Finland
Over 60% in Norway and Austria
Over 50% in Australia, Ireland and the United Kingdom.
Over 40% in Italy.
Over 30% in West Germany.
Usa healthcare costs are ridiculous compared to those of other western countries,i imagine due to a variety of reasons. -high cost of education,the doctors have to pay back these costs so this pushes up the income they need to sustain themselves -Absurd payouts when doctors make a medical error,forcing doctors to take very expensive insurance against this. -Big farma,giving doctors bonuses if they use their expensive medicine instead of some generic medicine. -And last but not least the insurance sector as a whole,who has almost no incentive to keep cost down. If cost go up,they simply go along and rise what people have to pay for their insurance. How is it the insurance industries job to keep costs down? Their costs reflect the health care costs going up. Its the healthcare industry that has no incentive to keep costs down. They are the reason insurance is at the price it is.
Well, costs don't just reflect healthcare costs going up. Without legislation in place (like the ACA) to cap the amount of overhead/administration costs insurance companies can pull, it can also simply reflect the companies wanting to make more money, especially in a non-transparent marketplace that has significant barriers to switching.
This only gets worse if pre-existing conditions are not covered, of course, since that makes it so they can raise overhead to increase profit and many people pretty much can't swap insurance.
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On May 22 2017 07:54 TheTenthDoc wrote:They are so fucked. For once there really is a concrete record of Trump's statements I guess. Show nested quote +On May 22 2017 07:51 Sadist wrote:On May 22 2017 04:46 pmh wrote:On May 22 2017 03:28 Yurie wrote:On May 22 2017 03:21 warding wrote:On May 22 2017 03:12 Gorsameth wrote:On May 22 2017 03:07 warding wrote:On May 21 2017 20:43 Simberto wrote:
The weird thing is that currently, the US still pays more government money for healthcare than most other countries which have universal healthcare. Despite all of the employer policies and the people having to pay for their own insurance, your government still pays the same amount that the governments of countries with universal healthcare do. You just get less for your money. And then you pay more out of your own pocket to still get less. I find this really mind boggling. In Portugal we have a public system that is nearly free for everyone and a private system where insurance costs between 30-65€ per month - the higher tiers include dental plans. Most drugs are also subsidized so they tend to be affordable. And yet the public expenditure in health is 8.3% of GDP in the US vs 6.2% in PT, while the population over 65 is 15% in US vs 21% here. Meanwhile, the US government also spends more than the OECD average on education as % of GDP and yet they're mediocre inn the PISA rankings and tertiary education costs a fortune. This also reminded me of a recent article (Economist) about how the costs per mile of building a subway line we're much higher in the US than in other countries and it all came down to public governance. Are Europeans just better at building more efficient public institutions? If so why? Because Europeans do not have a massive distrust for anything related to government. Because we don't have half our political system dedicated to getting rid of government? (unless it concerns your bedroom). Maybe. While that is still under debate, making the system more efficient becomes a secondary problem. I wouldn't exclude the democratic party from scrutiny though - the reason public governance is often poor is due topolitical capture by corporatist interests like teachers unions. Unions are amongst the main donors of the democratic party. Don't see why Unions would be a major factor in the US compared to many EU nations. From Wiki it seems the US is much less unionised than most other Western nations. By 1989, that figure had dropped to about 16%, the lowest percentage of any developed democracy, except France. Union membership for other developed democracies, in 1986/87 were:[1]
95% in Sweden and Denmark.
85% in Finland
Over 60% in Norway and Austria
Over 50% in Australia, Ireland and the United Kingdom.
Over 40% in Italy.
Over 30% in West Germany.
Usa healthcare costs are ridiculous compared to those of other western countries,i imagine due to a variety of reasons. -high cost of education,the doctors have to pay back these costs so this pushes up the income they need to sustain themselves -Absurd payouts when doctors make a medical error,forcing doctors to take very expensive insurance against this. -Big farma,giving doctors bonuses if they use their expensive medicine instead of some generic medicine. -And last but not least the insurance sector as a whole,who has almost no incentive to keep cost down. If cost go up,they simply go along and rise what people have to pay for their insurance. How is it the insurance industries job to keep costs down? Their costs reflect the health care costs going up. Its the healthcare industry that has no incentive to keep costs down. They are the reason insurance is at the price it is. Well, costs don't just reflect healthcare costs going up. Without legislation in place (like the ACA) to cap the amount of overhead/administration costs insurance companies can pull, it can also simply reflect the companies wanting to make more money, especially in a non-transparent marketplace that has significant barriers to switching. This only gets worse if pre-existing conditions are not covered, of course, since that makes it so they can raise overhead to increase profit and many people pretty much can't swap insurance.
Thats a fair point but if healthcare was more affordable insurance may not even be required. Or required in a smaller capacity (catastrophic etc)
If you fix healthcare costs this problem goes away.
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On May 22 2017 07:58 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2017 07:54 TheTenthDoc wrote:They are so fucked. For once there really is a concrete record of Trump's statements I guess. On May 22 2017 07:51 Sadist wrote:On May 22 2017 04:46 pmh wrote:On May 22 2017 03:28 Yurie wrote:On May 22 2017 03:21 warding wrote:On May 22 2017 03:12 Gorsameth wrote:On May 22 2017 03:07 warding wrote:On May 21 2017 20:43 Simberto wrote:
The weird thing is that currently, the US still pays more government money for healthcare than most other countries which have universal healthcare. Despite all of the employer policies and the people having to pay for their own insurance, your government still pays the same amount that the governments of countries with universal healthcare do. You just get less for your money. And then you pay more out of your own pocket to still get less. I find this really mind boggling. In Portugal we have a public system that is nearly free for everyone and a private system where insurance costs between 30-65€ per month - the higher tiers include dental plans. Most drugs are also subsidized so they tend to be affordable. And yet the public expenditure in health is 8.3% of GDP in the US vs 6.2% in PT, while the population over 65 is 15% in US vs 21% here. Meanwhile, the US government also spends more than the OECD average on education as % of GDP and yet they're mediocre inn the PISA rankings and tertiary education costs a fortune. This also reminded me of a recent article (Economist) about how the costs per mile of building a subway line we're much higher in the US than in other countries and it all came down to public governance. Are Europeans just better at building more efficient public institutions? If so why? Because Europeans do not have a massive distrust for anything related to government. Because we don't have half our political system dedicated to getting rid of government? (unless it concerns your bedroom). Maybe. While that is still under debate, making the system more efficient becomes a secondary problem. I wouldn't exclude the democratic party from scrutiny though - the reason public governance is often poor is due topolitical capture by corporatist interests like teachers unions. Unions are amongst the main donors of the democratic party. Don't see why Unions would be a major factor in the US compared to many EU nations. From Wiki it seems the US is much less unionised than most other Western nations. By 1989, that figure had dropped to about 16%, the lowest percentage of any developed democracy, except France. Union membership for other developed democracies, in 1986/87 were:[1]
95% in Sweden and Denmark.
85% in Finland
Over 60% in Norway and Austria
Over 50% in Australia, Ireland and the United Kingdom.
Over 40% in Italy.
Over 30% in West Germany.
Usa healthcare costs are ridiculous compared to those of other western countries,i imagine due to a variety of reasons. -high cost of education,the doctors have to pay back these costs so this pushes up the income they need to sustain themselves -Absurd payouts when doctors make a medical error,forcing doctors to take very expensive insurance against this. -Big farma,giving doctors bonuses if they use their expensive medicine instead of some generic medicine. -And last but not least the insurance sector as a whole,who has almost no incentive to keep cost down. If cost go up,they simply go along and rise what people have to pay for their insurance. How is it the insurance industries job to keep costs down? Their costs reflect the health care costs going up. Its the healthcare industry that has no incentive to keep costs down. They are the reason insurance is at the price it is. Well, costs don't just reflect healthcare costs going up. Without legislation in place (like the ACA) to cap the amount of overhead/administration costs insurance companies can pull, it can also simply reflect the companies wanting to make more money, especially in a non-transparent marketplace that has significant barriers to switching. This only gets worse if pre-existing conditions are not covered, of course, since that makes it so they can raise overhead to increase profit and many people pretty much can't swap insurance. Thats a fair point but if healthcare was more affordable insurance may not even be required. Or required in a smaller capacity (catastrophic etc) If you fix healthcare costs this problem goes away.
It's impossible to fix healthcare at this point, it's captalism at its finest: profit > human life
American pharmaceutical companies inflate drug prices and.... ...because medications are literally essential—patients could die without them—people have little choice but to pay up no matter what the price. The fact that more Americans have high-deductible health insurance plans makes the situation more painful, as they're generally on the hook for the full cost of prescriptions.
Meanwhile, a new report from Americans for Tax Fairness says that Gilead Sciences, the world's sixth most valuable pharmaceutical company, has been gouging consumers, raking in billions in profits, and dodging U.S. taxes—all based on medications that were developed by taxpayer dollars..... -source-
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On May 22 2017 04:46 pmh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2017 03:28 Yurie wrote:On May 22 2017 03:21 warding wrote:On May 22 2017 03:12 Gorsameth wrote:On May 22 2017 03:07 warding wrote:On May 21 2017 20:43 Simberto wrote:
The weird thing is that currently, the US still pays more government money for healthcare than most other countries which have universal healthcare. Despite all of the employer policies and the people having to pay for their own insurance, your government still pays the same amount that the governments of countries with universal healthcare do. You just get less for your money. And then you pay more out of your own pocket to still get less. I find this really mind boggling. In Portugal we have a public system that is nearly free for everyone and a private system where insurance costs between 30-65€ per month - the higher tiers include dental plans. Most drugs are also subsidized so they tend to be affordable. And yet the public expenditure in health is 8.3% of GDP in the US vs 6.2% in PT, while the population over 65 is 15% in US vs 21% here. Meanwhile, the US government also spends more than the OECD average on education as % of GDP and yet they're mediocre inn the PISA rankings and tertiary education costs a fortune. This also reminded me of a recent article (Economist) about how the costs per mile of building a subway line we're much higher in the US than in other countries and it all came down to public governance. Are Europeans just better at building more efficient public institutions? If so why? Because Europeans do not have a massive distrust for anything related to government. Because we don't have half our political system dedicated to getting rid of government? (unless it concerns your bedroom). Maybe. While that is still under debate, making the system more efficient becomes a secondary problem. I wouldn't exclude the democratic party from scrutiny though - the reason public governance is often poor is due topolitical capture by corporatist interests like teachers unions. Unions are amongst the main donors of the democratic party. Don't see why Unions would be a major factor in the US compared to many EU nations. From Wiki it seems the US is much less unionised than most other Western nations. By 1989, that figure had dropped to about 16%, the lowest percentage of any developed democracy, except France. Union membership for other developed democracies, in 1986/87 were:[1]
95% in Sweden and Denmark.
85% in Finland
Over 60% in Norway and Austria
Over 50% in Australia, Ireland and the United Kingdom.
Over 40% in Italy.
Over 30% in West Germany.
Usa healthcare costs are ridiculous compared to those of other western countries,i imagine due to a variety of reasons. -high cost of education,the doctors have to pay back these costs so this pushes up the income they need to sustain themselves -Absurd payouts when doctors make a medical error,forcing doctors to take very expensive insurance against this. -Big farma,giving doctors bonuses if they use their expensive medicine instead of some generic medicine. -And last but not least the insurance sector as a whole,who has almost no incentive to keep cost down. If cost go up,they simply go along and rise what people have to pay for their insurance.
There's been a lot of investigative journalism as well as studies done to look into why healthcare and education costs are so high in the U.S., and it largely boils down to administrative costs.
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Capitalism is also the reason why the US has the best doctors in the world and the best R/D for all advances in healthcare. Gotta take the good with the bad
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On May 22 2017 03:36 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2017 03:19 Mysticesper wrote:
I also think it's easier to have a smaller, more efficient government when your country is much smaller too in both land mass and population. isn't it usually the other way around? The more people you have, the more you can get done just once for everyone without having every state figure out a solution themselves, thus the cheaper it gets? Sure I can see that more government looking after things increases cost in some way but if that directly leads to cost decrease on lower levels, for every state because they have one less issue to deal with it's at the very least more complex than "it just gets more expensive with more people"
What's the motivation for this single body (monopoly) to control costs? The will of the voter? Lol. Smaller states = more competition for resources and people. When there is more competition costs become controlled and innovation increases. As a German you should be aware of this simple truth, no? Given it wasn't that long ago that Germany were an amalgam of city-states which housed and produced some of the greatest works of science, art, technology, culture, etc. After unification and til today, Germany...still very good, but not as great as you were.
People seem to conflate mass production (economy of scale savings), with monopolies (which is what a single unified large state is). Don't be one of those people.
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On May 22 2017 08:32 biology]major wrote:
Capitalism is also the reason why the US has the best doctors in the world and the best R/D for all advances in healthcare. Gotta take the good with the bad
Well does the US really have the best doctors? It is something that is widely believed, but is it true? The statement has some similarities to the statement "Volvo has the best safety". It is something we have been told a lot of times, but when you start researching it, the truth starts to be a bit shady.
So does US really have the best doctors?
American doctors and hospitals kill patients through surgical and medical mistakes more often than their counterparts in other industrialized nations. We tend to think that our very best medical centers are the best in the world. But whether this is a realistic assessment or merely a cultural preference for the home team is difficult to say. Only when better measures of clinical excellence are developed will discerning medical shoppers know for sure who is the best of the best.
www.nytimes.com
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On May 22 2017 08:32 biology]major wrote:
Capitalism is also the reason why the US has the best doctors in the world and the best R/D for all advances in healthcare. Gotta take the good with the bad
We had those in the 1960-1970s too, and better education. But medical coverage and college education cost less back then. I don't think those things are going to go away if we start taxing companies and the wealthy like with did in back then. Rule one of capitalism, convince people that they get the best services because of the free market so you can continue profiting from capitalism.
Edit: we also have a pretty high rate of mothers dying in child birth compared to other nations. In many ways, we are a pretty sub-par nation that the wealthy try very hard to convince everyone is the best. There is very little America excels at any more.
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On May 22 2017 08:41 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2017 03:36 Toadesstern wrote:On May 22 2017 03:19 Mysticesper wrote:
I also think it's easier to have a smaller, more efficient government when your country is much smaller too in both land mass and population. isn't it usually the other way around? The more people you have, the more you can get done just once for everyone without having every state figure out a solution themselves, thus the cheaper it gets? Sure I can see that more government looking after things increases cost in some way but if that directly leads to cost decrease on lower levels, for every state because they have one less issue to deal with it's at the very least more complex than "it just gets more expensive with more people" What's the motivation for this single body (monopoly) to control costs? The will of the voter? Lol. Smaller states = more competition for resources and people. When there is more competition costs become controlled and innovation increases. As a German you should be aware of this simple truth, no? Given it wasn't that long ago that Germany were an amalgam of city-states which housed and produced some of the greatest works of science, art, technology, culture, etc. After unification and til today, Germany...still very good, but not as great as you were. People seem to conflate mass production (economy of scale savings), with monopolies (which is what a single unified large state is). Don't be one of those people.
because healthcare is a huge organizational effort that profits from centralised processing. For the same reason you have one Google and not twenty search engines, and one royal mail service in the UK instead of one hundred. In this context competition is not helpful, it clogs the system.
Not to mention that you don't actually want more healthcare at all cost. Competition introduces a profit motive, and you don't want more treatment, you want only as much treatment as is needed to cure a patient. In such a situation pooling resources actually reduces waste, because it collectively punishes overspending.
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Capitalism is also the reason why the US has the best doctors in the world and the best R/D for all advances in healthcare. Gotta take the good with the bad
The UK, Germany and Switzerland also have capitalism and some of the best doctors in the world, yet they have affordable healthcare.
How can they do it and we can't?
How can we allow companies to prioritize profits over human life?
How can this happen in the supposedly "best country in the world" ?
I'm sick and tired of people claiming that's just the way things are and it can't be changed, especially when other countries can make it work!
All this bs like "long waitin lists in Canada.." is propaganda by lobbyists and paid politicians...seriously, they'd change it if they wanted to. But you gotta have that fine campaign money to get re-elected...drain the swamp...my ass....
edit:
Well that was my sunday afternoon rant.. how's your weekend going guys? xD
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On May 22 2017 08:32 biology]major wrote:
Capitalism is also the reason why the US has the best doctors in the world and the best R/D for all advances in healthcare. Gotta take the good with the bad
That's highly debatable. I know the US is the worst developed nation to have a baby with maternal death rates worse than some 3rd world countries. And while we do have some stellar healthcare professionals, what's it matter if the vast majority of the citizens can't get that level of treatment? As a middle class person, I don't really care that the USA has some of the best doctors if myself and nobody I know can utilize their services. The level of care for the average person is simply better in nearly any developed country. We should be analyzing the system based on the accessibility of most, not outliers.
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On May 22 2017 08:31 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2017 04:46 pmh wrote:On May 22 2017 03:28 Yurie wrote:On May 22 2017 03:21 warding wrote:On May 22 2017 03:12 Gorsameth wrote:On May 22 2017 03:07 warding wrote:On May 21 2017 20:43 Simberto wrote:
The weird thing is that currently, the US still pays more government money for healthcare than most other countries which have universal healthcare. Despite all of the employer policies and the people having to pay for their own insurance, your government still pays the same amount that the governments of countries with universal healthcare do. You just get less for your money. And then you pay more out of your own pocket to still get less. I find this really mind boggling. In Portugal we have a public system that is nearly free for everyone and a private system where insurance costs between 30-65€ per month - the higher tiers include dental plans. Most drugs are also subsidized so they tend to be affordable. And yet the public expenditure in health is 8.3% of GDP in the US vs 6.2% in PT, while the population over 65 is 15% in US vs 21% here. Meanwhile, the US government also spends more than the OECD average on education as % of GDP and yet they're mediocre inn the PISA rankings and tertiary education costs a fortune. This also reminded me of a recent article (Economist) about how the costs per mile of building a subway line we're much higher in the US than in other countries and it all came down to public governance. Are Europeans just better at building more efficient public institutions? If so why? Because Europeans do not have a massive distrust for anything related to government. Because we don't have half our political system dedicated to getting rid of government? (unless it concerns your bedroom). Maybe. While that is still under debate, making the system more efficient becomes a secondary problem. I wouldn't exclude the democratic party from scrutiny though - the reason public governance is often poor is due topolitical capture by corporatist interests like teachers unions. Unions are amongst the main donors of the democratic party. Don't see why Unions would be a major factor in the US compared to many EU nations. From Wiki it seems the US is much less unionised than most other Western nations. By 1989, that figure had dropped to about 16%, the lowest percentage of any developed democracy, except France. Union membership for other developed democracies, in 1986/87 were:[1]
95% in Sweden and Denmark.
85% in Finland
Over 60% in Norway and Austria
Over 50% in Australia, Ireland and the United Kingdom.
Over 40% in Italy.
Over 30% in West Germany.
Usa healthcare costs are ridiculous compared to those of other western countries,i imagine due to a variety of reasons. -high cost of education,the doctors have to pay back these costs so this pushes up the income they need to sustain themselves -Absurd payouts when doctors make a medical error,forcing doctors to take very expensive insurance against this. -Big farma,giving doctors bonuses if they use their expensive medicine instead of some generic medicine. -And last but not least the insurance sector as a whole,who has almost no incentive to keep cost down. If cost go up,they simply go along and rise what people have to pay for their insurance. There's been a lot of investigative journalism as well as studies done to look into why healthcare and education costs are so high in the U.S., and it largely boils down to administrative costs.
You should read America's Bitter Pill for investigative journalism and the ACA. The reason costs are high is because healthcare is inherently imbalanced against the consumer without some type of "greater good" ie Government oversite. When your option is litterally pay whatever you or charged or die, thats not a very good candidate for capitalism to take charge.
Americans are gouged because our system is set up to let this happen.
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Standard operating procedure with less of the normal obfuscation.
On May 22 2017 08:50 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2017 08:32 biology]major wrote:
Capitalism is also the reason why the US has the best doctors in the world and the best R/D for all advances in healthcare. Gotta take the good with the bad We had those in the 1960-1970s too, and better education. But medical coverage and college education cost less back then. I don't think those things are going to go away if we start taxing companies and the wealthy like with did in back then. Rule one of capitalism, convince people that they get the best services because of the free market so you can continue profiting from capitalism. Edit: we also have a pretty high rate of mothers dying in child birth compared to other nations. In many ways, we are a pretty sub-par nation that the wealthy try very hard to convince everyone is the best. There is very little America excels at any more.
The catch is the US does have the best doctors and more importantly the best surgeons, problem is that most people don't have any access to them. It's like saying Italy has the best auto industry because they make Ferrari's and Lambos, but it's not like Italians all get them.
But they could be like us and say "People come from all around the world for the best auto industry in the world and that's us (Italy)!" and it would sound less stupid than it does when we say it for our healthcare, because at least fiat's aren't the shitty free clinics we have.
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Random aside:
I find myself driving around the city more recently, and I can not believe how much high value real estate sits vacant 80% + of the week just so it can be used for church. Like just the parking alone would add up to millions every year. No way they could exist there if they had to pay taxes on the highest and best use of the properties.
Being the next local Creflo Dollar or Pat Robertson seems far too profitable to not do. I give it about a decade before I just say F it and get rich selling an invisible space pimp to idiots.
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EPT
