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On May 21 2017 01:10 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2017 00:55 zlefin wrote:On May 21 2017 00:40 riotjune wrote:
Yea it's not cool being American right now. We will forever look back on this past election as a sore spot in our history and cringe to ourselves "Damn we fucked up bad!" like with Vietnam and other stuff since. indeed. I do wish more politicians had put up proposals to prevent things like this from happening in the future; but either they don't, or we just can't hear about them because the crazy is sucking up all the airtime. What would be some proposals to be put forth to minimize this from happening again? I mean, there are some Presidents that weren't lifetime politicians that turned out to be great. And some that were just not. Is 5 years of civil service of some sort a minimum mandatory from this point forward? Some basic social studies classes? Must not have had a reality TV show or be an actor/musician?
switching to approval voting and removing the primary process might work.
a minimum requirement of at least one full term as a senator or governor (especially governor) could help maybe. maybe add a few other positions to that list of things which would count.
more generally, primaries select for people who are highly liked by a certain subset; they don't account for people who are highly hated by the other sets. so you get people with high levels of love/hate; whereas people who are broadly acceptable to everyone but not especially liked don't fare well; e.g. if everyone would like someone as a second choice, but nobody likes them as a first choice, they lose a primary; and how much someone is hated by the opposition party has no effect on their ability to win their own parties' primary.
So both parties could select someone utterly hated by the opposition, which leads to trouble we have now.
and that's me, smart guy on the internet saying stuff; I'd expect our actual leaders and political scientists to be able to come up with better proposals.
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On May 21 2017 02:31 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2017 01:10 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On May 21 2017 00:55 zlefin wrote:On May 21 2017 00:40 riotjune wrote:
Yea it's not cool being American right now. We will forever look back on this past election as a sore spot in our history and cringe to ourselves "Damn we fucked up bad!" like with Vietnam and other stuff since. indeed. I do wish more politicians had put up proposals to prevent things like this from happening in the future; but either they don't, or we just can't hear about them because the crazy is sucking up all the airtime. What would be some proposals to be put forth to minimize this from happening again? I mean, there are some Presidents that weren't lifetime politicians that turned out to be great. And some that were just not. Is 5 years of civil service of some sort a minimum mandatory from this point forward? Some basic social studies classes? Must not have had a reality TV show or be an actor/musician? switching to approval voting and removing the primary process might work. a minimum requirement of at least one full term as a senator or governor (especially governor) could help maybe. maybe add a few other positions to that list of things which would count. more generally, primaries select for people who are highly liked by a certain subset; they don't account for people who are highly hated by the other sets. so you get people with high levels of love/hate; whereas people who are broadly acceptable to everyone but not especially liked don't fare well; e.g. if everyone would like someone as a second choice, but nobody likes them as a first choice, they lose a primary; and how much someone is hated by the opposition party has no effect on their ability to win their own parties' primary. So both parties could select someone utterly hated by the opposition, which leads to trouble we have now. and that's me, smart guy on the internet saying stuff; I'd expect our actual leaders and political scientists to be able to come up with better proposals.
The DNC is arguing in court that the primaries are just a parade and not a real democratic event, so we should probably scrap them for a lot of reasons.
I don't think we need more arbitrary rules on who can be president, we need to modernize our population and ensure they are capable of choosing quality leaders or we might as well disabuse ourselves of democratic notions.
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On May 21 2017 02:48 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2017 02:31 zlefin wrote:On May 21 2017 01:10 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On May 21 2017 00:55 zlefin wrote:On May 21 2017 00:40 riotjune wrote:
Yea it's not cool being American right now. We will forever look back on this past election as a sore spot in our history and cringe to ourselves "Damn we fucked up bad!" like with Vietnam and other stuff since. indeed. I do wish more politicians had put up proposals to prevent things like this from happening in the future; but either they don't, or we just can't hear about them because the crazy is sucking up all the airtime. What would be some proposals to be put forth to minimize this from happening again? I mean, there are some Presidents that weren't lifetime politicians that turned out to be great. And some that were just not. Is 5 years of civil service of some sort a minimum mandatory from this point forward? Some basic social studies classes? Must not have had a reality TV show or be an actor/musician? switching to approval voting and removing the primary process might work. a minimum requirement of at least one full term as a senator or governor (especially governor) could help maybe. maybe add a few other positions to that list of things which would count. more generally, primaries select for people who are highly liked by a certain subset; they don't account for people who are highly hated by the other sets. so you get people with high levels of love/hate; whereas people who are broadly acceptable to everyone but not especially liked don't fare well; e.g. if everyone would like someone as a second choice, but nobody likes them as a first choice, they lose a primary; and how much someone is hated by the opposition party has no effect on their ability to win their own parties' primary. So both parties could select someone utterly hated by the opposition, which leads to trouble we have now. and that's me, smart guy on the internet saying stuff; I'd expect our actual leaders and political scientists to be able to come up with better proposals. The DNC is arguing in court that the primaries are just a parade and not a real democratic event, so we should probably scrap them for a lot of reasons. I don't think we need more arbitrary rules on who can be president, we need to modernize our population and ensure they are capable of choosing quality leaders or we might as well disabuse ourselves of democratic notions.
I woudln't call my proposed rules arbitrary.
I'm fine with doing more work to modernize the population; but there's some fundamental challenges which indicate that's not likely to work. I've already disabused myself of democratic notions as well of course (since some of them are indeed quite wrong), but have yet to settle on a superior form of government to switch to.
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Wouldn't mind a revisement of the EC while we're at it.
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Public approval of President Donald Trump has dropped to its lowest level since his inauguration, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll released on Friday, after Trump was accused of mishandling classified information and meddling with an FBI investigation.
The May 14-18 opinion poll found that 38 percent of adults approved of Trump while 56 percent disapproved. The remaining 6 percent had "mixed feelings."
Americans appear to have soured on Trump after a tumultuous week in the White House during which the president fought back a steady drumbeat of critical news reports that ramped up concerns about his administration’s ties to Russia.
The week started with revelations that Trump shared highly classified information with Russian diplomats in a private meeting. That was followed by reports that former Federal Bureau of Investigation Director James Comey, whom Trump recently fired, had written memos expressing concerns that the president had pressured him to stop investigating Trump campaign ties to Russia.
Later in the week, the Justice Department appointed former FBI Director Robert Mueller to oversee an independent probe into contacts between Russia and the Trump campaign.
Trump has denied colluding with the Russians and called ongoing efforts to investigate him a "witch hunt." No politician in history, he said, "has been treated worse or more unfairly."
While Trump remains popular with members of his own party, many rank-and-file Republicans appear to have backed off their support for the president during the past week.
Among Republicans, 23 percent expressed disapproval of Trump in the latest poll, up from 16 percent in the same poll last week. The decline in support from Republicans appears to be a primary reason why Trump's overall approval rating is now at the lowest level since he took office.
The Reuters/Ipsos poll was conducted online in English across the United States. It gathered responses from 1,971 adults, including 721 Republicans and 795 Democrats. It has a credibility interval, a measure of accuracy, of 3 percentage points for the entire group and 4 percentage points for the Democrats and Republicans.
Source
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while trump's approval among republicans appears to be pretty good, reminder that bush was at 65 among republicans in his darker days.
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On May 21 2017 03:20 ticklishmusic wrote:
while trump's approval among republicans appears to be pretty, good, reminder that bush was at 65 among republicans at his lowest.
Where'd Nixon bottom out? Iirc it was ~25% among Americans overall
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On May 21 2017 03:22 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2017 03:20 ticklishmusic wrote:
while trump's approval among republicans appears to be pretty, good, reminder that bush was at 65 among republicans at his lowest. Where'd Nixon bottom out? Iirc it was ~25% among Americans overall
around 50-something with republicans i think when he resigned. at that point he knew impeachment was gonna happen.
also looks like bush hit mid fifties in 2008 when the economy was in free fall, so correction there. but he bounced up a bit back to mid 60's afterwards.
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Purely hypothetical and has no bearing on the previous discussions. But I wonder, is there a site that ranks what Obama would have been polled at had he been white and still did what he did? Just curious
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How the fuck would you ever measure something like that?
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
"If Obama were Caucasian, would you approve or disapprove of his presidency as of today?"
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On May 21 2017 04:07 LegalLord wrote:
"If Obama were Caucasian, would you approve or disapprove of his presidency as of today?"
"Well I'd look kind of silly for calling him a Kenyan then wouldn't I?"
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That's why I'm asking. I'm just curious to see what people would say.
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On May 21 2017 04:13 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
That's why I'm asking. I'm just curious to see what people would say.
People would say stuff like. My opinion would be exactly the same because I don't see race.
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Given that one frequent criticism of Obama is that he was actually unable to do much about the racial divide, despite being the first black president I don't think it has much bearing on how to judge the presidency. In fact I think it might have even hurt the democrats that the narrative of "hope" and "change" petered out like it did.
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On May 21 2017 03:57 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Purely hypothetical and has no bearing on the previous discussions. But I wonder, is there a site that ranks what Obama would have been polled at had he been white and still did what he did? Just curious
haven't heard of such a site; and at any rate there's no way to really get such an answer to a question that's remotely reliable, as you can't hide the identity of a president.
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When you don't like the news, just make stuff up.
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Wait, isn't that the Megaupload guy? What could he possibly add of use?
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On May 21 2017 06:27 Gahlo wrote:Wait, isn't that the Megaupload guy? What could he possibly add of use?
Pandering to Seth Rich conspiracy theorists.
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EPT
