EPTIncidentally Hillary Clinton's 2016 immigration reform plan called for all of those things I think.
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 6730
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
Incidentally Hillary Clinton's 2016 immigration reform plan called for all of those things I think. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16969 Posts
On February 01 2017 19:26 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Bill Clinton, 1995 State of the Union address. Your "legacy" is in tatters Bill. Tatters? huh? over this? imo, Clinton has been the best president since JFK. | ||
{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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LightSpectra
United States1878 Posts
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
it's a bipartisan bill sponsored by a democrat | ||
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LightSpectra
United States1878 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain18112 Posts
On February 01 2017 23:39 LightSpectra wrote: Yes, I'm aware. However Trump made it one of his campaign promises, so he's associated with the issue. He doesn't get credit for piggybacking on something congress was doing anyway? | ||
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LightSpectra
United States1878 Posts
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
it is more of a regional congressional issue tho. sponsor is repping tech workers. hillary was more about giving us educated grads greencards. she was friends with tata tho so there is legitimate concern about what she would have done to influence the h1b thing. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Moderator Becky Quick: “You have been very critical of Mark Zuckerberg of Facebook who has wanted to increase the number of these H-1Bs.” Trump: “I was not at all critical of him. I was not at all. In fact, frankly, he’s complaining about the fact that we’re losing some of the most talented people. They go to Harvard. They go to Yale. They go to Princeton. They come from another country, and they’re immediately sent out. I am all in favor of keeping these talented people here so they can go to work in Silicon Valley.” Quick: “Are you in favor of H-1Bs or are you opposed to them?” Trump: “I’m in favor of people coming into this country legally. And you know what? They can have it any way you want. You can call it visas, you can call it work permits, you can call it anything you want. … As far as the visas are concerned, if we need people, it’s fine. They have to come into this country legally. We have a country of borders. We have a country of laws. We have to obey the laws. It’s fine if they come in, but they have to come in legally.” At a later debate: + Show Spoiler + Moderator Megyn Kelly: “Mr. Trump, your campaign website to this day argues that more visas for highly skilled workers would, quote, ‘decimate’ American workers. However, at the CNBC debate, you spoke enthusiastically in favor of these visas. So, which is it?” Trump: “I’m changing. I’m changing. We need highly skilled people in this country, and if we can’t do it, we’ll get them in. But, and we do need in Silicon Valley, we absolutely have to have. So, we do need highly skilled, and one of the biggest problems we have is people go to the best colleges. They’ll go to Harvard, they’ll go to Stanford, they’ll go to Wharton, as soon as they’re finished they’ll get shoved out. They want to stay in this country. They want to stay here desperately, they’re not able to stay here. For that purpose, we absolutely have to be able to keep the brain power in this country.” He then released something saying this immediately afterwards: + Show Spoiler + Megyn Kelly asked about highly-skilled immigration. The H-1B program is neither high-skilled nor immigration: these are temporary foreign workers, imported from abroad, for the explicit purpose of substituting for American workers at lower pay. I remain totally committed to eliminating rampant, widespread H-1B abuse and ending outrageous practices such as those that occurred at Disney in Florida when Americans were forced to train their foreign replacements. I will end forever the use of the H-1B as a cheap labor program, and institute an absolute requirement to hire American workers for every visa and immigration program. No exceptions. And "refined" it (if you can call his typical word-vomit refined) later as this: + Show Spoiler + I know the H-1B. I know the H2B. Nobody knows it better than me. I’m a businessman. These are laws. These are regulations. These are rules. We’re allowed to do it. … I will take advantage of it; they’re the laws. But I’m the one that knows how to change it. Nobody else on this dais knows how to change it like I do, believe me.” I know the H-1B very well. And it’s something that I, frankly, use, and I shouldn’t be allowed to use it. We shouldn’t have it. Very, very bad for workers. And second of all, I think it’s very important to say, well, I’m a businessman and I have to do what I have to do. When it’s sitting there waiting for you, but it’s very bad. It’s very bad for business in terms of — and it’s very bad for our workers and it’s unfair for our workers. And we should end it. It's somewhat remarkable that the person who knows H1-B and H2-B better than anyone would have go from the first debate statement to categorically opposing them, but there you are. As a hilarious aside, Trump's site still has a donation link up, as does Clinton's. Both of them need to contact their webmasters. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
Bodes well for Sessions' eventual confirmation. TheHill | ||
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Trainrunnef
United States599 Posts
On February 01 2017 16:49 LegalLord wrote: Again, there are the high-quality folk and the bottom feeders. If you see only the high-quality folk you might not think the system is broken. But abuse of the system for indentured servant labor is rampant, and it leads to a rather unfortunate situation for a lot of locals. Long story short, I myself wouldn't mind the "get rid of all of them" solution. Those that are worth keeping can be given a green card in an expedited "talent quota" process. Personally I feel like reducing H1B visas will have a more positive net effect on the upward mobility of the lower middle class. with H1B visas companies can afford to ignore promoting from within and giving domestic employees better training/advancement opportunities. I think this is exactly what has led us to the point where we are now. No one wants to work at the bottom of the ladder. Getting rid of the "indentured servant" labor isn't going to help any americans or close up the wage gap between the haves and the have-nots. We need to create a more pronounced need for skilled workers so that the companies themselves begin to innovate and create opportunities for the american workers. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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LightSpectra
United States1878 Posts
On February 02 2017 00:36 oneofthem wrote: problem with that view is that once you cant import cheap labor, you can outsource the cheap work. it is also far more difficult to stop cross border exchange of coding etc work within one company. Outsourcing an entire IT team is a lot of work. It's easy to do for tech support, but not for entire programming/engineering teams. It's easy for Microsoft, Apple, Google, Oracle, etc. to fire a bunch of people and replace them with H1Bs, it wouldn't be so easy for them to fire all of their workers and rehire in India/China. | ||
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Trainrunnef
United States599 Posts
On February 02 2017 00:39 LightSpectra wrote: Outsourcing an entire IT team is a lot of work. It's easy to do for tech support, but not for entire programming/engineering teams. It's easy for Microsoft, Apple, Google, Oracle, etc. to fire a bunch of people and replace them with H1Bs, it wouldn't be so easy for them to fire all of their workers and rehire in India/China. That issue only applies in certain fields. Think of chemists, engineers, business managers, plant managers etc.Plenty of those jobs need hands on oversight and wouldn't be subject to the outsourcing of the work. All of these highly compensated positions are getting handed to the best applicant possible, which sometimes is an international applicant with an H1B. How many thousands or tens of thousands of those jobs could have been given to a domestic worker that just needed someone to see their potential and give them the tools to succeed. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On February 02 2017 00:39 LightSpectra wrote: Outsourcing an entire IT team is a lot of work. It's easy to do for tech support, but not for entire programming/engineering teams. It's easy for Microsoft, Apple, Google, Oracle, etc. to fire a bunch of people and replace them with H1Bs, it wouldn't be so easy for them to fire all of their workers and rehire in India/China. What? A lot of the big companies, Oracle at the very least, already have a very prominent presence in India. Not so much the SV culture companies (Apple & Google), but certainly a lot of big box corporate-y ones like Oracle do. When I worked for one of the big companies we had a forced outsourcing % for each team that was something like 30-50%. In practice towards the end I was mostly just reviewing code written by offshore resources and putting out the fires they were creating. ------------ As a hilarious aside, Trump's site still has a donation link up, as does Clinton's. Both of them need to contact their webmasters. As said Trump is already officially running for 2020 as a way to silence criticism from non-profit organizations. Why would he take down the donations for an active campaign? --------- Also I asked yesterday if Sean Spicer was bad at his job or if the administration had changed their mind on targeting US civilians. Some people said it was the latter, so I'm sorry to let you know that Sean Spicer is just *really* *really* bad at his job: White House press secretary Sean Spicer told reporters earlier in the day that “no American citizen will ever be targeted” when asked whether the Trump administration would deliberately go after U.S.-born people with ties to extremists. The statement represented a break with policy set under the Obama administration. But a White House official later clarified that “U.S. policy regarding the possible targeting of American citizens has not changed.” http://thehill.com/policy/defense/317234-white-house-walks-back-assertion-military-wont-target-us-civilians-overseas | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On February 02 2017 00:46 Trainrunnef wrote: That issue only applies in certain fields. Think of chemists, engineers, business managers, plant managers etc.Plenty of those jobs need hands on oversight and wouldn't be subject to the outsourcing of the work. All of these highly compensated positions are getting handed to the best applicant possible, which sometimes is an international applicant with an H1B. How many thousands or tens of thousands of those jobs could have been given to a domestic worker that just needed someone to see their potential and give them the tools to succeed. That's not really true, there's a fair bit of outsourcing going on in R&D nowadays where you operate as a virtual company and outsource the actual execution of experiments to other companies. There's a lot of European and Chinese companies that do contract work. Here's a paper that gets into it (I have to admit I didn't read the whole paper, just part of it): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4240890/ | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On February 02 2017 00:39 LightSpectra wrote: Outsourcing an entire IT team is a lot of work. It's easy to do for tech support, but not for entire programming/engineering teams. It's easy for Microsoft, Apple, Google, Oracle, etc. to fire a bunch of people and replace them with H1Bs, it wouldn't be so easy for them to fire all of their workers and rehire in India/China. It's not an all or nothing thing though. You can outsource small projects to an offshore team for development. Even with the markup of hiring a consulting firm provide the labor you're still going to come out ahead. Engineers maybe out of scope, but programming is already being outsourced this way. | ||
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LightSpectra
United States1878 Posts
On February 02 2017 00:46 Trainrunnef wrote: That issue only applies in certain fields. Think of chemists, engineers, business managers, plant managers etc.Plenty of those jobs need hands on oversight and wouldn't be subject to the outsourcing of the work. All of these highly compensated positions are getting handed to the best applicant possible, which sometimes is an international applicant with an H1B. How many thousands or tens of thousands of those jobs could have been given to a domestic worker that just needed someone to see their potential and give them the tools to succeed. Okay, well the proposal is to make the minimum wage for H1Bs some very high number like $200k per year. If those jobs are really necessary, then those companies can cough up the salary. The abuse comes in when tech companies lay off people making $100-120k per year and replace them with H1Bs doing the exact same work for $60-80k. | ||
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