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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 6705

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24470 Posts
January 30 2017 21:58 GMT
#134081
White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer exploited the attack to justify President Trump’s ban on immigrants from seven Muslim-majority countries. “It’s a terrible reminder of why we must remain vigilant and why the President is taking steps to be proactive rather than reactive when it comes to our nation’s safety and security,” Spicer said at this afternoon’s briefing when speaking of the Quebec City attack.

But these assertions are utterly false. The suspect is neither Moroccan nor Muslim. The Moroccan individual, Mohamed el Khadir, was actually one of the worshippers at the mosque and called 911 to summon the police, and played no role whatsoever in the shooting.

The actual shooting suspect is 27-year-old Alexandre Bissonnette, a white French Canadian who is, by all appearances, a rabid anti-immigrant nationalist. A leader of a local immigration rights groups, François Deschamps, told a local paper he recognized his photo as an anti-immigrant far-right “troll” who has been hostile to the group online. And Bisonnette’s Facebook page – now taken down but still archived – lists among its “likes” the far right French nationalist Marine Le Pen, Islam critics Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens, the Israeli Defense Forces, and Donald J. Trump (he also “likes” the liberal Canadian Party NDP along with more neutral “likes” such as Tom Hanks, the Sopranos and Katy Perry).


Source

Sooo... About those mass murdering young white men...
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
nojok
Profile Joined May 2011
France15846 Posts
January 30 2017 22:04 GMT
#134082
At least no Iraqian white supremacist should attack an American mosquee.
"Back then teams that won were credited, now it's called throw. I think it's sad." - Kuroky - Flap Flap Wings!
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24470 Posts
January 30 2017 22:05 GMT
#134083
But if you're more into alternative facts, there's always fox news...

"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18487 Posts
January 30 2017 22:05 GMT
#134084
On January 31 2017 06:58 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer exploited the attack to justify President Trump’s ban on immigrants from seven Muslim-majority countries. “It’s a terrible reminder of why we must remain vigilant and why the President is taking steps to be proactive rather than reactive when it comes to our nation’s safety and security,” Spicer said at this afternoon’s briefing when speaking of the Quebec City attack.

But these assertions are utterly false. The suspect is neither Moroccan nor Muslim. The Moroccan individual, Mohamed el Khadir, was actually one of the worshippers at the mosque and called 911 to summon the police, and played no role whatsoever in the shooting.

The actual shooting suspect is 27-year-old Alexandre Bissonnette, a white French Canadian who is, by all appearances, a rabid anti-immigrant nationalist. A leader of a local immigration rights groups, François Deschamps, told a local paper he recognized his photo as an anti-immigrant far-right “troll” who has been hostile to the group online. And Bisonnette’s Facebook page – now taken down but still archived – lists among its “likes” the far right French nationalist Marine Le Pen, Islam critics Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens, the Israeli Defense Forces, and Donald J. Trump (he also “likes” the liberal Canadian Party NDP along with more neutral “likes” such as Tom Hanks, the Sopranos and Katy Perry).


Source

Sooo... About those mass murdering young white men...

What the actual fuck?

It'd be funny if it wasn't so sad. So when he went up on stage, it was already known that the principal suspect was a white French Canadian, right? Because this just happened, and I knew this from the TL Canada thread about an hour ago?

But even if we allow for Sean Spicer to not know that the Moroccan had been called "probably just an innocent bystander", the guy was a Moroccan. Lets go over Trump's 7 countries again? Nope. Morocco is still not on there. So wtf?

And not only that, but he took advantage of a tragic mass shooting to gloat about his "proactive security policy".

Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-30 22:07:25
January 30 2017 22:06 GMT
#134085
well this is the second time they've gotten it wrong. See tweet calling zurich shooting Islamic terrorism. I can't wait til theres an international crises.

"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
January 30 2017 22:11 GMT
#134086
On January 31 2017 07:05 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 31 2017 06:58 GreenHorizons wrote:
White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer exploited the attack to justify President Trump’s ban on immigrants from seven Muslim-majority countries. “It’s a terrible reminder of why we must remain vigilant and why the President is taking steps to be proactive rather than reactive when it comes to our nation’s safety and security,” Spicer said at this afternoon’s briefing when speaking of the Quebec City attack.

But these assertions are utterly false. The suspect is neither Moroccan nor Muslim. The Moroccan individual, Mohamed el Khadir, was actually one of the worshippers at the mosque and called 911 to summon the police, and played no role whatsoever in the shooting.

The actual shooting suspect is 27-year-old Alexandre Bissonnette, a white French Canadian who is, by all appearances, a rabid anti-immigrant nationalist. A leader of a local immigration rights groups, François Deschamps, told a local paper he recognized his photo as an anti-immigrant far-right “troll” who has been hostile to the group online. And Bisonnette’s Facebook page – now taken down but still archived – lists among its “likes” the far right French nationalist Marine Le Pen, Islam critics Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens, the Israeli Defense Forces, and Donald J. Trump (he also “likes” the liberal Canadian Party NDP along with more neutral “likes” such as Tom Hanks, the Sopranos and Katy Perry).


Source

Sooo... About those mass murdering young white men...

What the actual fuck?

It'd be funny if it wasn't so sad. So when he went up on stage, it was already known that the principal suspect was a white French Canadian, right? Because this just happened, and I knew this from the TL Canada thread about an hour ago?

But even if we allow for Sean Spicer to not know that the Moroccan had been called "probably just an innocent bystander", the guy was a Moroccan. Lets go over Trump's 7 countries again? Nope. Morocco is still not on there. So wtf?

And not only that, but he took advantage of a tragic mass shooting to gloat about his "proactive security policy".



He also printed out Tweets:



It's not even original material! Bernie already did it in a much more comical way.
Logo
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
January 30 2017 22:15 GMT
#134087
i am reminded of the hysteria around obama not 'immediately condemning terrorism' in many iterations
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
pmh
Profile Joined March 2016
1416 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-30 22:28:39
January 30 2017 22:16 GMT
#134088
On January 31 2017 04:52 oneofthem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 31 2017 04:39 Mohdoo wrote:
On January 31 2017 04:16 farvacola wrote:
oneofthem continually reifies problematic characterizations of competing leftist attitudes towards the economy and I can't quite figure out why. There is more than enough common ground among self-proclaimed socialists and those of a more Clintonian bent.

My personal view is that we should really just go down the Bernie path. Clinton folks will vote for Bernie folks but Bernie folks won't vote for Clinton folks.

None of these discussions as to which is better or worse matter when you lose elections anyway.


the key is really developing a powerful labor based political movement. but i also think the end result that is desired is a settled peace between capitalists and labor, rather than the kind of disruption offered by bernie or trump.

the organizing group of the american right, billionaire political activists, adopt this strategy of total destruction against labor/the left because there is no legitimate threats to them. at the end of the day, labor and the left isn't organized and effective enough.

this is also why leftist extremists whose own political vision isn't sustainable or acceptable for a winning coalition are a danger to this sort of a project. especially when they attack their allies.

as far as 'clinton folks will vote for bernie', that is only true this cycle because trump is on the other side. if there isn't a socially repugnant guy on the other side, but instead you have a guy like romney, then a bernie style candidate would not be that strong.


No,no time for peace. The difference between the rich and poor is at pre ww2 levels,off course the elite would like to make peace and draw the line here. But the current levels of inequality are not sustainable in a democracy,the disturbance of a Bernie like figure is needed to turn around the trend of growing inequality.
Inequality is at the root of this all and as long as people don't see or accept that nothing will chance,the public will remain unhappy with the status quo and express those feelings during elections with their votes.

It is incredible what has happened since the financial crisis,and it is only because 99% of the people don't see and understand it that there has not been a true revolution yet.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-30 22:37:13
January 30 2017 22:30 GMT
#134089
On January 31 2017 07:16 pmh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 31 2017 04:52 oneofthem wrote:
On January 31 2017 04:39 Mohdoo wrote:
On January 31 2017 04:16 farvacola wrote:
oneofthem continually reifies problematic characterizations of competing leftist attitudes towards the economy and I can't quite figure out why. There is more than enough common ground among self-proclaimed socialists and those of a more Clintonian bent.

My personal view is that we should really just go down the Bernie path. Clinton folks will vote for Bernie folks but Bernie folks won't vote for Clinton folks.

None of these discussions as to which is better or worse matter when you lose elections anyway.


the key is really developing a powerful labor based political movement. but i also think the end result that is desired is a settled peace between capitalists and labor, rather than the kind of disruption offered by bernie or trump.

the organizing group of the american right, billionaire political activists, adopt this strategy of total destruction against labor/the left because there is no legitimate threats to them. at the end of the day, labor and the left isn't organized and effective enough.

this is also why leftist extremists whose own political vision isn't sustainable or acceptable for a winning coalition are a danger to this sort of a project. especially when they attack their allies.

as far as 'clinton folks will vote for bernie', that is only true this cycle because trump is on the other side. if there isn't a socially repugnant guy on the other side, but instead you have a guy like romney, then a bernie style candidate would not be that strong.


No,no time for peace. The difference between the rich and poor is at pre ww2 levels,off course the elite would like to make peace and draw the line here. But the current levels of inequality are not sustainable in a democracy,the disturbance of a Bernie like figure is needed to turn around the trend of growing inequality.

Inequality is at the root of this all and as long as people don't see or accept that nothing will chance,the public will remain unhappy with the status quo and express those feelings in elections.

intergenerational inequality is one of the central issues for the center-left. it's at the center of everything from tax to housing to education to healthcare policy.

you can see how important this issue is by looking at the number of items that address big drivers of inequality on sites like equitablegrowth.org and hillary's policy site.

as far as effectiveness, hillary's policies would primarily affect the very low end. in terms of narrowing the gap between the super-rich and the average american, it would not help. there's a lot of positional and network effects driving concentration. the basic rule is that, the biggest fish gets bigger faster. it's partly the result of politically deployed barriers like IP, but most often inequality in the age of globalization is the result of the power laws of growth where positional advantage is important. see e.g. http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~xgabaix/papers/pl-jep.pdf

the policy implication is that we can raise tax rate high on firms that enjoy a lot of positional or otherwise advantages. this would help quite a lot, but the problem is that firms would just move. so the tax issue is about international cooperation and institutions.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
January 30 2017 22:39 GMT
#134090
On January 31 2017 06:56 Logo wrote:
Show nested quote +

“I don’t think you have to look any farther than the families of the Boston Marathon, in Atlanta, in San Bernardino, to ask if we can go further,” Spicer said.

None of the perpetrators of those terror attacks would have been affected by the executive order Trump signed on Friday.


Source: http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2017/01/30/trump-spokesman-defends-action-immigration/bOZl3IEfKhDm546rCHCrLI/story.html



(The suspect is believed to be a French Canadian Student who is possibly a white nationalist).

Seriously, what the hell is wrong with Sean Spicer? Forgetting even the politics of things how can anyone be this bad at their job at such a high level?


Trump tells Spicer specifically what to do - Spicer is doing his job exactly as his boss wants it lol.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
January 30 2017 22:41 GMT
#134091
Is this confirmed and still happening? Pretty sure that defying the judicial branch is a really bad sign. And even inventing legal arguments to try to justify it (i.e. they're not being "detained" and are not on US soil because there in international arrivals areas of airports).

Customs and Border Protection (CBP) agents defied the orders of federal judges regarding Donald Trump’s travel bans on Sunday, according to members of Congress and attorneys who rallied protests around the country in support of detained refugees and travellers from seven Muslim-majority countries.

On Sunday afternoon, four Democratic members of the House of Representatives arrived at Dulles airport in Virginia on word that people had been detained and denied access to lawyers.

"We have a constitutional crisis today,” representative Don Beyer wrote on Twitter. “Four members of Congress asked CBP officials to enforce a federal court order and were turned away.”

Representative Jamie Raskin, also at the airport, tweeted that the federal agency had given “no answers yet” about whether agents were ignoring the courts. Raskin joined several other attorneys there, including Damon Silvers, special counsel at AFL-CIO, one of the groups trying to help visa holders.

“As far as I know no attorney has been allowed to see any arriving passenger subject to Trumps exec order at Dulles today,” Silvers tweeted on Sunday evening. “CBP appears to be saying people in their custody not ‘detained’ technically & Dulles international arrivals areas not in the United States.”


The Guardian
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22681 Posts
January 30 2017 22:48 GMT
#134092
On January 31 2017 07:41 Doodsmack wrote:
Is this confirmed and still happening? Pretty sure that defying the judicial branch is a really bad sign. And even inventing legal arguments to try to justify it (i.e. they're not being "detained" and are not on US soil because there in international arrivals areas of airports).

Show nested quote +
Customs and Border Protection (CBP) agents defied the orders of federal judges regarding Donald Trump’s travel bans on Sunday, according to members of Congress and attorneys who rallied protests around the country in support of detained refugees and travellers from seven Muslim-majority countries.

On Sunday afternoon, four Democratic members of the House of Representatives arrived at Dulles airport in Virginia on word that people had been detained and denied access to lawyers.

"We have a constitutional crisis today,” representative Don Beyer wrote on Twitter. “Four members of Congress asked CBP officials to enforce a federal court order and were turned away.”

Representative Jamie Raskin, also at the airport, tweeted that the federal agency had given “no answers yet” about whether agents were ignoring the courts. Raskin joined several other attorneys there, including Damon Silvers, special counsel at AFL-CIO, one of the groups trying to help visa holders.

“As far as I know no attorney has been allowed to see any arriving passenger subject to Trumps exec order at Dulles today,” Silvers tweeted on Sunday evening. “CBP appears to be saying people in their custody not ‘detained’ technically & Dulles international arrivals areas not in the United States.”


The Guardian

Yep, its a bad sign since I assume this doesn't happen without orders from on high.
Unfortunately the process of multiple warning for Contempt of Court > Arrest take time.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-30 22:59:07
January 30 2017 22:52 GMT
#134093


So this Stephen Bannon guy believes people must form a church militant. Oh and he's also on the highest security council of the US right now while the intelligence and military leaders are not.

I found this interesting read about the actions of last week being the administration testing the waters of how far they can go in grabbing uncontested power. It's far out there, but quite well sourced and with how fast changes are being made already it doesn't feel like it's 100% conspiracy bs either anymore to be honest.

https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5

I mean if this is really how the state department looks right now then wow. Blue crosses are unfilled positions, red are purged positions. There's not much left.

[image loading]
Neosteel Enthusiast
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
January 30 2017 23:01 GMT
#134094
Part of the problem is that the Democrats said they want to hold up confirmations for Trump nominees as long as possible. Besides Trump being Trump we also have something of a pseudo government shutdown right now.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
January 30 2017 23:04 GMT
#134095
I mean, I don't think Tillerson has even been confirmed yet so there's another missing position on that chart.
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
January 30 2017 23:06 GMT
#134096
On January 31 2017 06:58 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer exploited the attack to justify President Trump’s ban on immigrants from seven Muslim-majority countries. “It’s a terrible reminder of why we must remain vigilant and why the President is taking steps to be proactive rather than reactive when it comes to our nation’s safety and security,” Spicer said at this afternoon’s briefing when speaking of the Quebec City attack.

But these assertions are utterly false. The suspect is neither Moroccan nor Muslim. The Moroccan individual, Mohamed el Khadir, was actually one of the worshippers at the mosque and called 911 to summon the police, and played no role whatsoever in the shooting.

The actual shooting suspect is 27-year-old Alexandre Bissonnette, a white French Canadian who is, by all appearances, a rabid anti-immigrant nationalist. A leader of a local immigration rights groups, François Deschamps, told a local paper he recognized his photo as an anti-immigrant far-right “troll” who has been hostile to the group online. And Bisonnette’s Facebook page – now taken down but still archived – lists among its “likes” the far right French nationalist Marine Le Pen, Islam critics Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens, the Israeli Defense Forces, and Donald J. Trump (he also “likes” the liberal Canadian Party NDP along with more neutral “likes” such as Tom Hanks, the Sopranos and Katy Perry).


Source

Sooo... About those mass murdering young white men...

If this was 40-50 years ago, that would've been the default assumption.

Quebec is quite familiar with nationalist terrorists.

(But I forgot, terrorism only started after Obama took office)
Average means I'm better than half of you.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24470 Posts
January 30 2017 23:06 GMT
#134097
On January 31 2017 08:01 LegalLord wrote:
Part of the problem is that the Democrats said they want to hold up confirmations for Trump nominees as long as possible. Besides Trump being Trump we also have something of a pseudo government shutdown right now.


Not quite. Lot's of Democrats have approved of several nominees (and some are rightfully catching static for it from the left). What the delays were about was the nominees not filling out their paperwork (or doing so incompletely) and then expecting senate Dems to just waive them on through. Only a total moron would have expected that to happen.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
January 30 2017 23:06 GMT
#134098
On January 31 2017 08:04 Nevuk wrote:
I mean, I don't think Tillerson has even been confirmed yet so there's another missing position on that chart.

We are expected to have interim directors for months in a lot of organizations.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
January 30 2017 23:10 GMT
#134099
On January 31 2017 08:06 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 31 2017 08:01 LegalLord wrote:
Part of the problem is that the Democrats said they want to hold up confirmations for Trump nominees as long as possible. Besides Trump being Trump we also have something of a pseudo government shutdown right now.


Not quite. Lot's of Democrats have approved of several nominees (and some are rightfully catching static for it from the left). What the delays were about was the nominees not filling out their paperwork (or doing so incompletely) and then expecting senate Dems to just waive them on through. Only a total moron would have expected that to happen.

Stories like this: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jan/30/chuck-schumer-wants-delay-rex-tillerson-vote-possi/

Have come up multiple times within the past few weeks. I see delay tactics at play.

Whether or not they should be doing that is a different story but I see a lot of deliberate delays on cabinet voting. I expect a few months of interim limbo.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
dmnum
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Brazil6910 Posts
January 30 2017 23:11 GMT
#134100
On January 31 2017 06:56 Logo wrote:
Show nested quote +

“I don’t think you have to look any farther than the families of the Boston Marathon, in Atlanta, in San Bernardino, to ask if we can go further,” Spicer said.

None of the perpetrators of those terror attacks would have been affected by the executive order Trump signed on Friday.


Source: http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2017/01/30/trump-spokesman-defends-action-immigration/bOZl3IEfKhDm546rCHCrLI/story.html

https://twitter.com/JProskowGlobal/status/826139917310889984

(The suspect is believed to be a French Canadian Student who is possibly a white nationalist).

Seriously, what the hell is wrong with Sean Spicer? Forgetting even the politics of things how can anyone be this bad at their job at such a high level?

I have a feeling he's just doing his best impersonation of Mike McLintock.
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