In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!
NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
On January 31 2017 09:50 DannyJ wrote: and while all this is happening I'm sure Trump's approval rating is going up at least 15%, if the campaign showed us anything...
He actually has to govern the whole country, not just his supporters. That is the difference to the campaign. And his supporters constitute a small but very loud minority of the country. The EC might have won him the presidency but it hasn't magically won him the cities. I doubt very much that people are going to tolerate his nonsense.
On January 31 2017 09:53 Nyxisto wrote: He actually has to govern the whole country, not just his supporters. That is the difference to the campaign. And his supporters constitute a small but very loud minority of the country. The EC might have won him the presidency but it hasn't magically won him the cities. I doubt very much that people are going to tolerate his nonsense.
Trump wins election, supporters have been relatively silent while these protests have been going on, yet you say "small but very loud."
On January 31 2017 09:50 DannyJ wrote: and while all this is happening I'm sure Trump's approval rating is going up at least 15%, if the campaign showed us anything...
There's not a single poll that shows him coming out of week 1 with more approval than going in. He's dropped 4 points in Rasmussen (which started him at a 10-point advantage relative to Gallup) and 7 points in Gallup.
Even if you think a given poll is systematically biased, he's worse off now than he was 8 days ago virtually guaranteed.
On January 31 2017 07:52 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
So this Stephen Bannon guy believes people must form a church militant. Oh and he's also on the highest security council of the US right now while the intelligence and military leaders are not.
I found this interesting read about the actions of last week being the administration testing the waters of how far they can go in grabbing uncontested power. It's far out there, but quite well sourced and with how fast changes are being made already it doesn't feel like it's 100% conspiracy bs either anymore to be honest.
I mean if this is really how the state department looks right now then wow. Blue crosses are unfilled positions, red are purged positions. There's not much left.
Boy, that's a spooky article. I mean, supposing Trump did want to seize complete and unchecked power, he'd basically have Congress, the courts, and the military able to oppose him. If he can normalize total contempt of court, that's one of three that can no longer stop him.
They say executive branch power is on a slow march upward, looks like Trump is going to test it to its limits. They have a "shadow cabinet" in each department - senior advisers who will essentially have to sign off on the cabinet secretaries' decisions, and who will presumably have a direct line to Trump's inner circle. This is, reportedly, unprecedented. Inner circle is also consolidating power in other ways, like with the NSC. Of course those moves are all within the executive, I guess the real test is what they do with Congress and the courts.
So much credence to polls still? Maybe we should re-evaluate the efficacy of polls to begin with. They were consistently wrong when it counted most, surprised you guys trust them down to the point.
On January 31 2017 09:59 biology]major wrote: So much credence to polls still? Maybe we should re-evaluate the efficacy of polls to begin with. They were consistently wrong when it counted most, surprised you guys trust them down to the point.
The whole reason I'm quoting trends rather than direct numbers is because even if the polls are systematically biased against Trump, there's no evidence his support is going up anywhere in the universe that I'm aware of.
Systematic bias against Trump AND some sort of systematic trend bias would be pretty bizarre.
Anyone saying "this is helping Trump" is relying purely on faith and feelings and not a shred of evidence of reality. They might be right, but there is no evidence for it in the known universe.
I don't give too much credence to polls, though they do have some value. you need to know how to read them and what to look for, and to look at a bunch of them to get a better sense. also to know what kind of things can be usefully polled.
On January 31 2017 09:53 Nyxisto wrote: He actually has to govern the whole country, not just his supporters. That is the difference to the campaign. And his supporters constitute a small but very loud minority of the country. The EC might have won him the presidency but it hasn't magically won him the cities. I doubt very much that people are going to tolerate his nonsense.
Trump wins election, supporters have been relatively silent while these protests have been going on, yet you say "small but very loud."
Loud in the sense of portraying themselves as 'real Americans', the majority, the opposite of the 'elites' and so on. But it is becoming evident that this narrative is obviously not true. There are thankfully a lot of people in the US that Trump is not going to convince or sell that what he is trying to do as normal or decent.
On January 31 2017 09:53 Nyxisto wrote: He actually has to govern the whole country, not just his supporters. That is the difference to the campaign. And his supporters constitute a small but very loud minority of the country. The EC might have won him the presidency but it hasn't magically won him the cities. I doubt very much that people are going to tolerate his nonsense.
Trump wins election, supporters have been relatively silent while these protests have been going on, yet you say "small but very loud."
Loud in the sense of portraying themselves as 'real Americans', the majority, the opposite of the 'elites' and so on. But it is becoming evident that this narrative is obviously not true. There are thankfully a lot of people in the US that Trump is not going to convince or sell that what he is trying to do as normal or decent.
Good because if a small and loud minority were able to take the house/senate + wh and soon the courts we must have one of the worst democracies on the planet.
On January 31 2017 09:53 Nyxisto wrote: He actually has to govern the whole country, not just his supporters. That is the difference to the campaign. And his supporters constitute a small but very loud minority of the country. The EC might have won him the presidency but it hasn't magically won him the cities. I doubt very much that people are going to tolerate his nonsense.
Trump wins election, supporters have been relatively silent while these protests have been going on, yet you say "small but very loud."
Loud in the sense of portraying themselves as 'real Americans', the majority, the opposite of the 'elites' and so on. But it is becoming evident that this narrative is obviously not true. There are thankfully a lot of people in the US that Trump is not going to convince or sell that what he is trying to do as normal or decent.
Good because if a small and loud minority were able to take the house/senate + wh and soon the courts we must have one of the worst democracies on the planet.
I wouldn't go that far but the low participation rate plus the disproportionate influence of states over the federal gov. do not make for a great mix. There's some deep institutional problems in the US that enable a person like Trump. It should not be that easy to put a demagogue into the office of one of the oldest democracies on the planet.
On January 31 2017 09:53 Nyxisto wrote: He actually has to govern the whole country, not just his supporters. That is the difference to the campaign. And his supporters constitute a small but very loud minority of the country. The EC might have won him the presidency but it hasn't magically won him the cities. I doubt very much that people are going to tolerate his nonsense.
Trump wins election, supporters have been relatively silent while these protests have been going on, yet you say "small but very loud."
Loud in the sense of portraying themselves as 'real Americans', the majority, the opposite of the 'elites' and so on. But it is becoming evident that this narrative is obviously not true. There are thankfully a lot of people in the US that Trump is not going to convince or sell that what he is trying to do as normal or decent.
Good because if a small and loud minority were able to take the house/senate + wh and soon the courts we must have one of the worst democracies on the planet.
Your system for electing the President is one of the most terrible that's for sure. Having only two relevant parties (very similar besides) in your entire history is not a good sign.
On January 31 2017 09:53 Nyxisto wrote: He actually has to govern the whole country, not just his supporters. That is the difference to the campaign. And his supporters constitute a small but very loud minority of the country. The EC might have won him the presidency but it hasn't magically won him the cities. I doubt very much that people are going to tolerate his nonsense.
Trump wins election, supporters have been relatively silent while these protests have been going on, yet you say "small but very loud."
Loud in the sense of portraying themselves as 'real Americans', the majority, the opposite of the 'elites' and so on. But it is becoming evident that this narrative is obviously not true. There are thankfully a lot of people in the US that Trump is not going to convince or sell that what he is trying to do as normal or decent.
Good because if a small and loud minority were able to take the house/senate + wh and soon the courts we must have one of the worst democracies on the planet.
Maybe we have the worst citizens on the planet? That plus the terrible lobbyist/two party system circus, I honestly can't imagine this country ever getting any better. It's really depressing.
On January 31 2017 09:53 Nyxisto wrote: He actually has to govern the whole country, not just his supporters. That is the difference to the campaign. And his supporters constitute a small but very loud minority of the country. The EC might have won him the presidency but it hasn't magically won him the cities. I doubt very much that people are going to tolerate his nonsense.
Trump wins election, supporters have been relatively silent while these protests have been going on, yet you say "small but very loud."
Loud in the sense of portraying themselves as 'real Americans', the majority, the opposite of the 'elites' and so on. But it is becoming evident that this narrative is obviously not true. There are thankfully a lot of people in the US that Trump is not going to convince or sell that what he is trying to do as normal or decent.
Good because if a small and loud minority were able to take the house/senate + wh and soon the courts we must have one of the worst democracies on the planet.
iirc we rate somewhere around 10th to 15th in democraticness.
On January 31 2017 09:53 Nyxisto wrote: He actually has to govern the whole country, not just his supporters. That is the difference to the campaign. And his supporters constitute a small but very loud minority of the country. The EC might have won him the presidency but it hasn't magically won him the cities. I doubt very much that people are going to tolerate his nonsense.
Trump wins election, supporters have been relatively silent while these protests have been going on, yet you say "small but very loud."
Loud in the sense of portraying themselves as 'real Americans', the majority, the opposite of the 'elites' and so on. But it is becoming evident that this narrative is obviously not true. There are thankfully a lot of people in the US that Trump is not going to convince or sell that what he is trying to do as normal or decent.
If this is in reference to the travel ban EO, Rasmussen says most polled agree in principle with about a third actively opposing.
On January 31 2017 09:51 LegalLord wrote: Honestly, just because certain people are flopping mad about this doesn't mean that his supporters are turning against him.
He might even win more by following through on campaign promises that others doubted. Obama and Democrats were historically weak on taking terror threats seriously. Actions like last week first get the boost from seeing action taken on terror threats from abroad, despite mitigating factors like applying the rules to legal residents and current visa holders is dumb and sows chaos.
Now if Trump pushes the stories of foreign born terrorists from the 7 targeted countries that committed acts of terror in the US (e.g. Abdul Razak Artan), refugees in the US that killed our troops abroad (wait, let's make damn sure to restrict discussions to US attacks only! Waad Ramadan Alwan and Mohanad Shareef Hammadi killers of our troops in Iraq, only planners of further attacks in US, living in Kentucky), and the hundred foiled in their plans and/or convicted of terrorism offenses in the US (over 300 in senatorial investigation of justice dept records of foreign-born people convicted of terrorism-related offenses since 9/11) ... he would continue the gains among the American people. I don't really see any big wins for the opposition here.
On January 31 2017 09:53 Nyxisto wrote: He actually has to govern the whole country, not just his supporters. That is the difference to the campaign. And his supporters constitute a small but very loud minority of the country. The EC might have won him the presidency but it hasn't magically won him the cities. I doubt very much that people are going to tolerate his nonsense.
Trump wins election, supporters have been relatively silent while these protests have been going on, yet you say "small but very loud."
Loud in the sense of portraying themselves as 'real Americans', the majority, the opposite of the 'elites' and so on. But it is becoming evident that this narrative is obviously not true. There are thankfully a lot of people in the US that Trump is not going to convince or sell that what he is trying to do as normal or decent.
If this is in reference to the travel ban EO, Rasmussen says most polled agree in principle with about a third actively opposing.
On January 31 2017 09:51 LegalLord wrote: Honestly, just because certain people are flopping mad about this doesn't mean that his supporters are turning against him.
He might even win more by following through on campaign promises that others doubted. Obama and Democrats were historically weak on taking terror threats seriously. Actions like last week first get the boost from seeing action taken on terror threats from abroad, despite mitigating factors like applying the rules to legal residents and current visa holders is dumb and sows chaos.
Now if Trump pushes the stories of foreign born terrorists from the 7 targeted countries that committed acts of terror in the US (e.g. Abdul Razak Artan), refugees in the US that killed our troops abroad (wait, let's make damn sure to restrict discussions to US attacks only! Waad Ramadan Alwan and Mohanad Shareef Hammadi killers of our troops in Iraq, only planners of further attacks in US, living in Kentucky), and the hundred foiled in their plans and/or convicted of terrorism offenses in the US (over 300 in senatorial investigation of justice dept records of foreign-born people convicted of terrorism-related offenses since 9/11) ... he would continue the gains among the American people. I don't really see any big wins for the opposition here.
Please, find me any evidence showing Trump has made any gains amongst the American people during his time in office for him to continue to make. I'm all ears.
On January 31 2017 09:53 Nyxisto wrote: He actually has to govern the whole country, not just his supporters. That is the difference to the campaign. And his supporters constitute a small but very loud minority of the country. The EC might have won him the presidency but it hasn't magically won him the cities. I doubt very much that people are going to tolerate his nonsense.
Trump wins election, supporters have been relatively silent while these protests have been going on, yet you say "small but very loud."
Loud in the sense of portraying themselves as 'real Americans', the majority, the opposite of the 'elites' and so on. But it is becoming evident that this narrative is obviously not true. There are thankfully a lot of people in the US that Trump is not going to convince or sell that what he is trying to do as normal or decent.
Good because if a small and loud minority were able to take the house/senate + wh and soon the courts we must have one of the worst democracies on the planet.
Maybe we have the worst citizens on the planet? That plus the terrible lobbyist/two party system circus, I honestly can't imagine this country ever getting any better. It's really depressing.
I agree. there are 2 americas and we both live in two completely different realities. Its basically the same as a devout religious person and an atheist trying to convince each other who's right. Two completely different moral frameworks that have no middle ground really, and so half of America will always be on the losing end. Two party system is trash, but it's what we have and it ain't changing, so America will never be united. The only cliche way to unite this country at this point is if North Korea or Russia or some ME country becomes an unquestionable antagonist which we can all rally against. Or aliens.
On January 31 2017 09:50 DannyJ wrote: and while all this is happening I'm sure Trump's approval rating is going up at least 15%, if the campaign showed us anything...
He actually has to govern the whole country, not just his supporters. That is the difference to the campaign. And his supporters constitute a small but very loud minority of the country. The EC might have won him the presidency but it hasn't magically won him the cities. I doubt very much that people are going to tolerate his nonsense.
I mean his voters were an electoral majority yet a ~3mil loss out of ~137mil. If 46% of the country is a small minority, you might want to reconsider your position on alternative facts.
On January 31 2017 09:53 Nyxisto wrote: He actually has to govern the whole country, not just his supporters. That is the difference to the campaign. And his supporters constitute a small but very loud minority of the country. The EC might have won him the presidency but it hasn't magically won him the cities. I doubt very much that people are going to tolerate his nonsense.
Trump wins election, supporters have been relatively silent while these protests have been going on, yet you say "small but very loud."
Loud in the sense of portraying themselves as 'real Americans', the majority, the opposite of the 'elites' and so on. But it is becoming evident that this narrative is obviously not true. There are thankfully a lot of people in the US that Trump is not going to convince or sell that what he is trying to do as normal or decent.
If this is in reference to the travel ban EO, Rasmussen says most polled agree in principle with about a third actively opposing.
1* Do you favor or oppose a temporary ban on refugees from Syria, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen until the federal government improves its ability to screen out potential terrorists from coming here?
2* Do you favor or oppose a temporary block on visas prohibiting residents of Syria, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen from entering the United States until the federal government improves its ability to screen out potential terrorists from coming here
Look at this please, not only does it omit the fact that the ban has affected people who hold legal visiting rights, it also presupposes that the US has not sufficient ability to screen potential terrorists.
On January 31 2017 09:50 DannyJ wrote: and while all this is happening I'm sure Trump's approval rating is going up at least 15%, if the campaign showed us anything...
He actually has to govern the whole country, not just his supporters. That is the difference to the campaign. And his supporters constitute a small but very loud minority of the country. The EC might have won him the presidency but it hasn't magically won him the cities. I doubt very much that people are going to tolerate his nonsense.
I mean his voters were an electoral majority yet a ~3mil loss out of ~137mil. If 46% of the country is a small minority, you might want to reconsider your position on alternative facts.
46 % of 140 million voters is a quarter of the country's population. The US president cannot just represent the particular interests of such a group, he's supposed to unify the country. Donald Trump has gone as far as labeling political opponents and even the press as 'enemies'. This isn't how it is supposed to work.
EPT![[image loading]](https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/600/1*8IDunC3Egvsw1Lr9_o6yxA.png)
