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On January 24 2017 23:50 xDaunt wrote:And with regards to Trump and the Press, I think this guy has it right for all of the reasons that I laid out a few days ago: Show nested quote +TRUMP AND THE PRESS: So yesterday I was on the BBC talking about Trump, the press, and what’s going on. Here’s a bit of an expansion.
First, the thing to understand is that, as I’ve said before, one of the changes going on with Trump generally is the renegotiation of various post-World War II institutional arrangements. One of those is the institutional arrangement involving the press and the White House. For decades, the press got special status because it was seen as both powerful, and institutionally responsible. (And, of course, allied with the Democrats who were mostly in charge of setting up those postwar institutional arrangements). Now those things have changed. If the press were powerful, it would have beaten Trump. If it were responsible, it wouldn’t be running away with fake news whenever it sees a chance to run something damaging to Trump. And, of course, there’s no alliance between Trump and the media, as there was with Obama.
So things will change. The press’s “insider” status — which it cherishes — is going to fade. (This is producing waves of status anxiety, as are many other Trump-induced institutional changes). And, having abandoned, quite openly, any pretense of objectivity and neutrality in the election, the press is going to be treated as an enemy by the Trump Administration until further notice.
In fact, Trump’s basically gaslighting them. Knowing how much they hate him, he’s constantly provoking them to go over the top. Sean Spicer’s crowd-size remarks are all about making them seem petty and negative. (And, possibly, teeing up crowd-size comparisons at next week’s March For Life, which the press normally ignores but which Trump will probably force them to cover).
Trump knows that the press isn’t trusted very much, and that the less it’s trusted, the less it can hurt him. So he’s prodding reporters to do things that will make them less trusted, and they’re constantly taking the bait. They’re taking the bait because they think he’s dumb, and impulsive, and lacking self-control — but he’s the one causing them to act in ways that are dumb and impulsive, and demonstrate lack of self-control. As Richard Fernandez writes on Facebook, they think he’s dumb because they think he has lousy taste, but there are a lot of scarily competent guys out there in the world who like white and gold furniture. And, I should note, Trump has more media experience than probably 99% of the people covering him. (As Obama operative Ben Rhodes gloated with regard to selling a dishonest story on the Iran deal, the average reporter the Obama White House dealt with “is 27 years old, and their only reporting experience consists of being around political campaigns.” In Rhodes’ words, “they literally know nothing.”)
The counter-move for the press isn’t to double down on anti-Trump messaging. The counter-move is to bolster its own trustworthiness by acting more neutral and sober, and by being more trustworthy. If the news media actually focused on reporting facts accurately and straightforwardly, on leaving opinion to the pundits, and on giving Trump a clearly fair shake, then Trump’s tactics wouldn’t work, and any actual dirt they found on him would do actual damage. He’s betting on the press being insufficiently mature and self-controlled to manage that. So far, his bet is paying off.
That’s too bad. If we had a better press, we’d be much better off as a nation. But we don’t. Source.
Holy shit does that piece miss the point on basically every count. There's bizarre strawmen like saying the press just hate him and have it in for him because of his bad taste in furniture, all used to justify treating the press as mere partisan hacks and gloating that the right's partisan hack is winning. It's like the author preassumes that as far as politics is concerned, true, false, right, and wrong don't exist; only winning and losing.
That's the only premise I can see for looking at a situation where a new administration, just a day or two into office, goes on record officially peddling blatant and demonstrable falsehoods, while lambasting the media for reporting a demonstrable truth, and take away the lesson "Ah, look how petty the media is being. This plays straight into his hands!"
The concern is about a far-right government issuing false, state-sponsored propaganda, while falsely accusing all non-state information sources of lying when they fact-check the state propaganda, in an effort to use some combination of party loyalty and patriotism to browbeat citizens into believing government lies. I don't think it's partisan hackery to say that's a bad thing. Meanwhile the article you linked notably glosses over the fact that the administration's statements were demonstrably false.
If fact-checking the president is petty and partisan, what exactly could the media do to, as the above article encourages, appear more fair and neutral? Ignore the lies? Report them merely as "the president claims..." with no effort to investigate the veracity? ...roll over and report them as absolute truth?
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I'm pretty sure it's just an attempt to push the "leftist" media into neutering itself despite the right winning the election on the back of a rabid mediasphere that bent the truth more efficiently.
Like how the first move of the guy who invades your home with a rifle is to tell you to turn over all your guns and knives.
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Have their been any proposals made to fix issues that occurred or came up during the election?
either at the government level, or in terms of primary processes?
it feels like there should be some, I mean I've come up with a few, so I'd expect the people really involved in such situations to have come up with a bunch; and I might just not be hearing about them because it's all boring stuff.
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That may not be the case, it's pretty well documented that the tribes have been having problems with the outsiders that have shown up and the article says:
...and economic hardship suffered by the tribe due to a highway closure caused by the ongoing protests
It seems unlikely anyone would pay off the leaders when they could just sit and wait it out and get the same result for free.
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On January 25 2017 06:01 Logo wrote:That may not be the case, it's pretty well documented that the tribes have been having problems with the outsiders that have shown up and the article says: Show nested quote +...and economic hardship suffered by the tribe due to a highway closure caused by the ongoing protests It seems unlikely anyone would pay off the leaders when they could just sit and wait it out and get the same result for free.
The timing just strikes me as very suspicious which is why I leaned that way.
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United States24328 Posts
It's unfortunate Democrats weren't more vocal about their problems with DAPL and the thugs with badges protecting it from peaceful protesters by shooting them with rubber bullets, tear gas, fire hoses, using attack dogs (the corporate thugs), and even having an anti-drone missile pod.
People are getting maimed by police (who have been incessantly lying) under Obama at DAPL, kinda bullshit how many are suddenly going to notice it and attribute it to Trump's fascist tendencies.
On January 25 2017 06:01 Logo wrote:That may not be the case, it's pretty well documented that the tribes have been having problems with the outsiders that have shown up and the article says: Show nested quote +...and economic hardship suffered by the tribe due to a highway closure caused by the ongoing protests It seems unlikely anyone would pay off the leaders when they could just sit and wait it out and get the same result for free.
There was a large divestment effort which resulted in banks closing early to avoid a small run on the bank. Shortly after Wells Fargo wanted to meet with the elders (to buy them out).
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/oRJcFR3.jpg)
So probably not that unlikely.
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On January 25 2017 06:10 GreenHorizons wrote:It's unfortunate Democrats weren't more vocal about their problems with DAPL and the thugs with badges protecting it from peaceful protesters by shooting them with rubber bullets, tear gas, fire hoses, using attack dogs (the corporate thugs), and even having an anti-drone missile pod. People are getting maimed by police (who have been incessantly lying) under Obama at DAPL, kinda bullshit how many are suddenly going to notice it and attribute it to Trump's fascist tendencies.
Personally I'm not convinced that Hillary wouldn't have done the exact same things as Trump on the matter.
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On January 25 2017 06:14 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2017 06:10 GreenHorizons wrote:It's unfortunate Democrats weren't more vocal about their problems with DAPL and the thugs with badges protecting it from peaceful protesters by shooting them with rubber bullets, tear gas, fire hoses, using attack dogs (the corporate thugs), and even having an anti-drone missile pod. People are getting maimed by police (who have been incessantly lying) under Obama at DAPL, kinda bullshit how many are suddenly going to notice it and attribute it to Trump's fascist tendencies. Personally I'm not convinced that Hillary wouldn't have done the exact same things as Trump on the matter.
I agree with this. We sort of had a no-choice proposition on the matter.
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United States24328 Posts
On January 25 2017 06:14 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2017 06:10 GreenHorizons wrote:It's unfortunate Democrats weren't more vocal about their problems with DAPL and the thugs with badges protecting it from peaceful protesters by shooting them with rubber bullets, tear gas, fire hoses, using attack dogs (the corporate thugs), and even having an anti-drone missile pod. People are getting maimed by police (who have been incessantly lying) under Obama at DAPL, kinda bullshit how many are suddenly going to notice it and attribute it to Trump's fascist tendencies. Personally I'm not convinced that Hillary wouldn't have done the exact same things as Trump on the matter.
Me neither, though I won't be surprised if she tries to fake it now.
Also when Pompeo does whatever stupid anti-Muslim/surveillance state thing he's going to do, people will forget he got confirmed by Democrats as well as Republicans (other than Rand Paul).
The Democrats who voted to confirm Pompeo were:
Joe Donnelly of Indiana
Dianne Feinstein of California
Maggie Hassan of New Hampshire
Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota
Tim Kaine of Virginia
Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota
Joe Manchin of West Virginia
Claire McCaskill of Missouri
Jack Reed of Rhode Island
Brian Schatz of Hawaii
Chuck Schumer of New York
Jeanne Shaheen of New Hampshire
Mark Warner of Virginia
Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island
Angus King, the independent from Maine who caucuses with Democrats, also voted in favor of Pompeo’s confirmation.
Connecticut Democrats Richard Blumenthal and Chris Murphy did not vote
source
Also don't forget the Dems that confirmed Carson. And they wonder why people didn't go out and vote for Democrats...
+ Show Spoiler +
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On January 25 2017 03:48 LegalLord wrote:God damn it, Trump's administration taking charge of .gov pages makes it difficult for me to look at any of the releases from old Obama politicians. Show nested quote +On January 25 2017 03:34 Thieving Magpie wrote:On January 25 2017 03:00 LegalLord wrote:On January 25 2017 02:49 Thieving Magpie wrote:On January 25 2017 02:38 LegalLord wrote:On January 25 2017 02:33 Thieving Magpie wrote:China WILL NOT go to war with the US in the topic of the islands. It has ZERO to gain for the losses needed to win (which they won't) China, if forced, WILL use those islands as a staging ground. Its much much easier for China to force America's hand. They have more fishermen and more resources than the neighboring countries do, they can just start using the islands for fishing and force the US to strike first. It will not take much to show the world that Trump is a loose cannon that can't be trusted. People already are in that mindset. And it won't take much to slowly push the message towards a union against the United States. Make tariffs against the US, cut off US production, and unify against Trump--in a Chinese attempt to restore order in the US. They don't need to fire a damn shot to win those islands and the world. People might have problems with the US - but a lot of those countries really don't like China. China itself has not all that many allies and most of its neighbors would be loathe to permit a Chinese garrison on their land. China says they would go to war over the islands - maybe they wouldn't actually do it and they're bluffing but if they're not, would you really be happy about the result? Speaking as a Filipino who has been worried for a LONG time about Chinese incursion into my people's waters--I hope they get wrecked by the US. But that's my tribalism talking. History suggests that in such situations, the US would use the Philippines as a means by which to bark at China, but if China attacked, it would retreat and bark loudly from back home. I know what the US would do. I have family that had to suffer through Japanese rule--short and brutal as it may be. I know how much loyalty the US has. But I also know that its the PI's best play--and sometimes you have to play to your outs. I guess it's a matter of who ends up being the most powerful in the region. If an American alliance beats China back and see its economy falter in the long term, it might be a smart move. If China continues to grow stronger, you would probably just have to suck it up and make peace with your more immediate neighbors.
best case scenario is China puts fishermen out there, Trump fires first, China and the US shift discussion or almost war/war with US/China, and Zero people are allowed on the islands.
Philippines and Taiwan then form a partnership to gain control of the islands as both the US and China lose validity as reasonable owners of those islands. Hold control for 8 years, and then renegotiate alliance with the US to give stronger powers over - then muscle Taiwan out of the partnership.
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Trump asks Comey to stay... what a coincidence!
"I'll drain the swamp" he says... after making the swamp worse, and rewarding the people who helped him get elected from inside the government. JFC.
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Comey is fine. Glad he's staying.
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On January 25 2017 06:50 Djzapz wrote:
Trump asks Comey to stay... what a coincidence!
"I'll drain the swamp" he says... after making the swamp worse, and rewarding the people who helped him get elected from inside the government. JFC.
comey staying for now is fine.
despite his screwup he's still better than many.
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On January 25 2017 06:53 LegalLord wrote:
Comey is fine. Glad he's staying.
Maybe the FBI will soon corroborate Trump's statement saying that "millions" of people have voted illegally :D
On January 25 2017 07:00 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2017 06:50 Djzapz wrote:
Trump asks Comey to stay... what a coincidence!
"I'll drain the swamp" he says... after making the swamp worse, and rewarding the people who helped him get elected from inside the government. JFC. comey staying for now is fine. despite his screwup he's still better than many.
I'm better than many!
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On January 25 2017 06:25 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2017 06:14 Nevuk wrote:On January 25 2017 06:10 GreenHorizons wrote:It's unfortunate Democrats weren't more vocal about their problems with DAPL and the thugs with badges protecting it from peaceful protesters by shooting them with rubber bullets, tear gas, fire hoses, using attack dogs (the corporate thugs), and even having an anti-drone missile pod. People are getting maimed by police (who have been incessantly lying) under Obama at DAPL, kinda bullshit how many are suddenly going to notice it and attribute it to Trump's fascist tendencies. Personally I'm not convinced that Hillary wouldn't have done the exact same things as Trump on the matter. Me neither, though I won't be surprised if she tries to fake it now. Also when Pompeo does whatever stupid anti-Muslim/surveillance state thing he's going to do, people will forget he got confirmed by Democrats as well as Republicans (other than Rand Paul). Show nested quote +
The Democrats who voted to confirm Pompeo were:
Joe Donnelly of Indiana
Dianne Feinstein of California
Maggie Hassan of New Hampshire
Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota
Tim Kaine of Virginia
Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota
Joe Manchin of West Virginia
Claire McCaskill of Missouri
Jack Reed of Rhode Island
Brian Schatz of Hawaii
Chuck Schumer of New York
Jeanne Shaheen of New Hampshire
Mark Warner of Virginia
Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island
Angus King, the independent from Maine who caucuses with Democrats, also voted in favor of Pompeo’s confirmation.
Connecticut Democrats Richard Blumenthal and Chris Murphy did not vote
sourceAlso don't forget the Dems that confirmed Carson. And they wonder why people didn't go out and vote for Democrats... + Show Spoiler +
Idk Carson seems more moderate than whoever Trump would drudge up as a replacement nomination. It would be nice if they just let things go along party lines and pass that way, but it's probably not nearly as bad as letting some of the other nominees through.
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On January 25 2017 07:01 Djzapz wrote:Maybe the FBI will soon corroborate Trump's statement saying that "millions" of people have voted illegally :D Show nested quote +On January 25 2017 07:00 zlefin wrote:On January 25 2017 06:50 Djzapz wrote:
Trump asks Comey to stay... what a coincidence!
"I'll drain the swamp" he says... after making the swamp worse, and rewarding the people who helped him get elected from inside the government. JFC. comey staying for now is fine. despite his screwup he's still better than many. I'm better than many!
so am I. but we're not in government, so we have to take what we can get.
he's still alot better than congress and the president, and most of trumps appointees.
so i'm fine with him staying.
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On January 25 2017 07:06 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2017 07:01 Djzapz wrote:On January 25 2017 06:53 LegalLord wrote:
Comey is fine. Glad he's staying. Maybe the FBI will soon corroborate Trump's statement saying that "millions" of people have voted illegally :D On January 25 2017 07:00 zlefin wrote:On January 25 2017 06:50 Djzapz wrote:
Trump asks Comey to stay... what a coincidence!
"I'll drain the swamp" he says... after making the swamp worse, and rewarding the people who helped him get elected from inside the government. JFC. comey staying for now is fine. despite his screwup he's still better than many. I'm better than many! so am I. but we're not in government, so we have to take what we can get. he's still alot better than congress and the president, and most of trumps appointees. so i'm fine with him staying.
I mean I guess that's fair enough in that Trump's appointees are the worst... like that education lady. I just am under the impression that it's a kickback for a service when Comey helped Trump's campaign in a move that seemed deliberate.
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On January 25 2017 07:15 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2017 07:06 zlefin wrote:On January 25 2017 07:01 Djzapz wrote:On January 25 2017 06:53 LegalLord wrote:
Comey is fine. Glad he's staying. Maybe the FBI will soon corroborate Trump's statement saying that "millions" of people have voted illegally :D On January 25 2017 07:00 zlefin wrote:On January 25 2017 06:50 Djzapz wrote:
Trump asks Comey to stay... what a coincidence!
"I'll drain the swamp" he says... after making the swamp worse, and rewarding the people who helped him get elected from inside the government. JFC. comey staying for now is fine. despite his screwup he's still better than many. I'm better than many! so am I. but we're not in government, so we have to take what we can get. he's still alot better than congress and the president, and most of trumps appointees. so i'm fine with him staying. I mean I guess that's fair enough in that Trump's appointees are the worst... like that education lady. I just am under the impression that it's a kickback for a service when Comey helped Trump's campaign in a move that seemed deliberate.
it's a tricky situation indeed.
should he fire comey simply for the appearance of propriety?
what would you have him do?
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EPT![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C29XCxpXgAIs2FQ.jpg)
