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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On November 24 2016 08:34 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2016 08:22 farvacola wrote:
Pretty low, though interest seems to be building at a steady pace. I think auditing our votes should be a regular practice. Because even if it doesn't change an outcome, people's votes matter (as does our confidence in the validity of our elections) and issues were reported to impact votes unrelated to president at all, which is important to know quantitatively how frequent of an issue it is. One problem would be people voting and not noticing there was a problem. So for instance when a machine is reporting a "malfunction" of switching votes, if that wasn't the first person to use the particular machine, that calls into question every previous vote cast at that machine. However whenever I hear about one of these vote switching machines, they shut it down, "repair it", then go back to voting, I never here any talk about auditing previous votes cast at the machine, so it's never clear how many votes may have gone uncorrected. Focusing on these particular states is clearly a political thing though, I just wonder what's in it for Stein. Maybe she thinks this can spark greater investigations into our electoral system, consistency, or something else? Maybe it's catching Democrats pushing this when they flatly ignored the possibility during the primary where the gap was much larger and had even more suspicious circumstances?
It is a bit weird that Stein is the first major party candidate to ask for a recount... neither Johnson nor Stein made it to 5% right?
I don't remember which 3? states they name dropped, if they're all pivotal states I would be a bit more skeptical of the claims. Actually I don't think the states matter, cheaters would be smart enough to cover their tracks.
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Norway28559 Posts
Maybe she's tired of being blamed for Trump. 
Also, I don't want to revive, but.. A lot of people drink alcohol so that the action they want to conduct becomes socially acceptable. And I'm fairly skeptical towards a definition of rape that defines large portions of cheating husbands as rape victims.
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The best part of this cycle for me has been how both Trump and Clinton exposed many in their party as being totally full of it. Trump supporters worried about Hillary's conflicts of interest were mostly full of it, and the Hillary supporters setting the bar at "provably illegal" were also mostly full of it.
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Donald Trump’s senior adviser Kellyanne Conway said Tuesday night that the President-elect was “open to hearing” alternatives to the Medicare program, including one put forth by House Speaker Paul Ryan.
Conway was responding to a question from “PBS NewsHour” host Judy Woodruff, who asked about Trump’s view of Ryan's proposal that Medicare be phased out in favor of a “premium support system”—his term for privatization.
“President-elect Trump has made very clear that he wants to make good on the promises that we as a nation have made to the seniors who rely upon Medicare, and certainly the lower income Americans who rely upon Medicaid and other entitlements like Social Security, frankly, for those who receive that,” Conway began.
Still, she said, Trump was open to hearing “different solutions and better ways of doing things.”
“He will, I’m sure, take a look at Speaker Ryan’s proposal and other proposals,” she continued. “In this case, he will go ahead and look at alternatives, Judy, as long as it does not interfere with what he has said, his commitment to keep the promises to those currently relying on them.”
During the campaign Trump had vowed that he was "not going to cut Medicare or Medicaid." Now, his transition website states that he will “modernize” Medicare, “so that it will be ready for the challenges with the coming retirement of the Baby Boom generation – and beyond” and “[m]aximize flexibility for States [sic] in administering Medicaid."
Source
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Another dumb question:
How have the Snowden reveals not have had a bigger impact on your local and foreign policy?
I mean... Well... Your voterbase is so uninformed they got Trump in.. So...
At least, in a few years, if you continue like this, edward will be happy he is in russia.
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On November 24 2016 09:08 Velr wrote:
Another dumb question:
How have the Snowden reveals not have had a bigger impact on your local and foreign policy?
I mean... Well... Your voterbase is so uninformed they got Trump in.. So...
At least, in a few years, if you continue like this, edward will be happy he is in russia.
How ironic would it be if Trump was the one who pardoned Snowden and Assange (obviously as favors for his Russian overlords)?+ Show Spoiler +
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On November 24 2016 08:43 Blisse wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2016 08:34 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 24 2016 08:22 farvacola wrote:
Pretty low, though interest seems to be building at a steady pace. I think auditing our votes should be a regular practice. Because even if it doesn't change an outcome, people's votes matter (as does our confidence in the validity of our elections) and issues were reported to impact votes unrelated to president at all, which is important to know quantitatively how frequent of an issue it is. One problem would be people voting and not noticing there was a problem. So for instance when a machine is reporting a "malfunction" of switching votes, if that wasn't the first person to use the particular machine, that calls into question every previous vote cast at that machine. However whenever I hear about one of these vote switching machines, they shut it down, "repair it", then go back to voting, I never here any talk about auditing previous votes cast at the machine, so it's never clear how many votes may have gone uncorrected. Focusing on these particular states is clearly a political thing though, I just wonder what's in it for Stein. Maybe she thinks this can spark greater investigations into our electoral system, consistency, or something else? Maybe it's catching Democrats pushing this when they flatly ignored the possibility during the primary where the gap was much larger and had even more suspicious circumstances? It is a bit weird that Stein is the first major party candidate to ask for a recount... neither Johnson nor Stein made it to 5% right? I don't remember which 3? states they name dropped, if they're all pivotal states I would be a bit more skeptical of the claims. Actually I don't think the states matter, cheaters would be smart enough to cover their tracks.
The simplest solution is often right and Stein simply wants to try and stop Trump but its hard to not entertain the thought that the Clinton camp is the idea behind Stein doing it so they can avoid the negative PR while still reaping the potential benefits.
A Clinton led recount now is going to look very sketchy and it going to raise hell if it overturns Trump (tho that will happen regardless if its Stein or Clinton asking for the recount).
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Wal-Mart intentionally failed to pay hundreds of truck drivers in California the minimum wage, a federal jury decided Wednesday, awarding the drivers $54 million in damages and opening up the retail giant to penalties.
The seven jurors returned the verdict in a lawsuit accusing the company of not properly paying drivers in accordance with California law for activities that included inspecting and washing their trucks and for layovers. Civil penalties will be determined by a judge. The company argued that the drivers are paid for activities that include those tasks and that they are not working during layovers. An lawyer for Wal-Mart didn't immediately return calls seeking comment on the verdict.
Attorneys for the more than 800 drivers who worked for Wal-Mart between October 2005 and October 2015 were seeking $72 million in damages, the bulk of it for layovers. They said during trial that additional damages and penalties could push the total amount Wal-Mart owed to more than $150 million.
Arkansas-based Wal-Mart Stores Inc. — the nation's largest private employer — has faced other criticism over its pay and treatment of U.S. employees.
The company announced last year that it was giving a raise to about half a million U.S. workers. The raises were part of a $1-billion investment that the retailer said also was intended to give workers more opportunities to advance and more consistent schedules.
Wal-Mart drivers are not paid by the hour. Wages are based on mileage and specified activities.
The drivers' attorneys pointed to a ruling in their favor from U.S. District Judge Susan Illston, who said last year that Wal-Mart would be in violation of California law if it enforced its driver pay manuals because they say no pay is earned for certain tasks.
“There's nothing in any of those three manuals that covered 10 years of time that show the drivers were paid for any of these tasks that are on your verdict form,” attorney Butch Wagner said during closing arguments.
Drivers also were not paid minimum wage for layovers even though Wal-Mart controlled their time by requiring them to stay with their trucks, the plaintiffs' attorneys said.
Wal-Mart argued that it paid drivers for activities that included other, smaller tasks and could not have a separate payment designation for everything they did, some of which took just minutes.
Source
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On November 24 2016 09:12 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2016 08:43 Blisse wrote:On November 24 2016 08:34 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 24 2016 08:22 farvacola wrote:
Pretty low, though interest seems to be building at a steady pace. I think auditing our votes should be a regular practice. Because even if it doesn't change an outcome, people's votes matter (as does our confidence in the validity of our elections) and issues were reported to impact votes unrelated to president at all, which is important to know quantitatively how frequent of an issue it is. One problem would be people voting and not noticing there was a problem. So for instance when a machine is reporting a "malfunction" of switching votes, if that wasn't the first person to use the particular machine, that calls into question every previous vote cast at that machine. However whenever I hear about one of these vote switching machines, they shut it down, "repair it", then go back to voting, I never here any talk about auditing previous votes cast at the machine, so it's never clear how many votes may have gone uncorrected. Focusing on these particular states is clearly a political thing though, I just wonder what's in it for Stein. Maybe she thinks this can spark greater investigations into our electoral system, consistency, or something else? Maybe it's catching Democrats pushing this when they flatly ignored the possibility during the primary where the gap was much larger and had even more suspicious circumstances? It is a bit weird that Stein is the first major party candidate to ask for a recount... neither Johnson nor Stein made it to 5% right? I don't remember which 3? states they name dropped, if they're all pivotal states I would be a bit more skeptical of the claims. Actually I don't think the states matter, cheaters would be smart enough to cover their tracks. The simplest solution is often right and Stein simply wants to try and stop Trump but its hard to not entertain the thought that the Clinton camp is the idea behind Stein doing it so they can avoid the negative PR while still reaping the potential benefits. A Clinton led recount now is going to look very sketchy and it going to raise hell if it overturns Trump (tho that will happen regardless if its Stein or Clinton asking for the recount).
Stein seemed to really dislike Clinton so I dunno about her doing that for her. But then again Trump has said so many scathing things about people then just dropped it (Clinton) or considering them for positions in his administration so who knows anymore because apparently people can say extremely negative things about people then call "jk I love you" once you have won.
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On November 24 2016 09:14 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +Wal-Mart intentionally failed to pay hundreds of truck drivers in California the minimum wage, a federal jury decided Wednesday, awarding the drivers $54 million in damages and opening up the retail giant to penalties.
The seven jurors returned the verdict in a lawsuit accusing the company of not properly paying drivers in accordance with California law for activities that included inspecting and washing their trucks and for layovers. Civil penalties will be determined by a judge. The company argued that the drivers are paid for activities that include those tasks and that they are not working during layovers. An lawyer for Wal-Mart didn't immediately return calls seeking comment on the verdict.
Attorneys for the more than 800 drivers who worked for Wal-Mart between October 2005 and October 2015 were seeking $72 million in damages, the bulk of it for layovers. They said during trial that additional damages and penalties could push the total amount Wal-Mart owed to more than $150 million.
Arkansas-based Wal-Mart Stores Inc. — the nation's largest private employer — has faced other criticism over its pay and treatment of U.S. employees.
The company announced last year that it was giving a raise to about half a million U.S. workers. The raises were part of a $1-billion investment that the retailer said also was intended to give workers more opportunities to advance and more consistent schedules.
Wal-Mart drivers are not paid by the hour. Wages are based on mileage and specified activities.
The drivers' attorneys pointed to a ruling in their favor from U.S. District Judge Susan Illston, who said last year that Wal-Mart would be in violation of California law if it enforced its driver pay manuals because they say no pay is earned for certain tasks.
“There's nothing in any of those three manuals that covered 10 years of time that show the drivers were paid for any of these tasks that are on your verdict form,” attorney Butch Wagner said during closing arguments.
Drivers also were not paid minimum wage for layovers even though Wal-Mart controlled their time by requiring them to stay with their trucks, the plaintiffs' attorneys said.
Wal-Mart argued that it paid drivers for activities that included other, smaller tasks and could not have a separate payment designation for everything they did, some of which took just minutes. Source
Why would you pay people a fair wage when you can just steal it from them, and only pay a fraction of what you stole back to a fraction of the people you stole it from?
I've said this many times, but Walmart isn't alone, this is a VERY popular component to many business models today.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On November 24 2016 09:23 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2016 09:14 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Wal-Mart intentionally failed to pay hundreds of truck drivers in California the minimum wage, a federal jury decided Wednesday, awarding the drivers $54 million in damages and opening up the retail giant to penalties.
The seven jurors returned the verdict in a lawsuit accusing the company of not properly paying drivers in accordance with California law for activities that included inspecting and washing their trucks and for layovers. Civil penalties will be determined by a judge. The company argued that the drivers are paid for activities that include those tasks and that they are not working during layovers. An lawyer for Wal-Mart didn't immediately return calls seeking comment on the verdict.
Attorneys for the more than 800 drivers who worked for Wal-Mart between October 2005 and October 2015 were seeking $72 million in damages, the bulk of it for layovers. They said during trial that additional damages and penalties could push the total amount Wal-Mart owed to more than $150 million.
Arkansas-based Wal-Mart Stores Inc. — the nation's largest private employer — has faced other criticism over its pay and treatment of U.S. employees.
The company announced last year that it was giving a raise to about half a million U.S. workers. The raises were part of a $1-billion investment that the retailer said also was intended to give workers more opportunities to advance and more consistent schedules.
Wal-Mart drivers are not paid by the hour. Wages are based on mileage and specified activities.
The drivers' attorneys pointed to a ruling in their favor from U.S. District Judge Susan Illston, who said last year that Wal-Mart would be in violation of California law if it enforced its driver pay manuals because they say no pay is earned for certain tasks.
“There's nothing in any of those three manuals that covered 10 years of time that show the drivers were paid for any of these tasks that are on your verdict form,” attorney Butch Wagner said during closing arguments.
Drivers also were not paid minimum wage for layovers even though Wal-Mart controlled their time by requiring them to stay with their trucks, the plaintiffs' attorneys said.
Wal-Mart argued that it paid drivers for activities that included other, smaller tasks and could not have a separate payment designation for everything they did, some of which took just minutes. Source Why would you pay people a fair wage when you can just steal it from them, and only pay a fraction of what you stole back to a fraction of the people you stole it from? I've said this many times, but Walmart isn't alone, this is a VERY popular component to many business models today.
Do you have any links regarding that last point? I would be interested on reading about it.
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On November 24 2016 08:48 Liquid`Drone wrote:Maybe she's tired of being blamed for Trump. Also, I don't want to revive, but.. A lot of people drink alcohol so that the action they want to conduct becomes socially acceptable. And I'm fairly skeptical towards a definition of rape that defines large portions of cheating husbands as rape victims.
my high school ex-gf is/was a big time druggie. expensive exotic stuff not pot. to feed her habit she entered the lucrative career of lap dancing and she worked at a place where sexual intercourse occurs in the VIP Lounge.
she needs to be drunk before she can fuck guys in the VIP lounge.
is every guy that fucks her a rapist because she is drunk?
now she no longer works at the strip club because her drug habit has destroyed her physical appearance.
all you kids out there: only dopes do dope.
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On November 24 2016 09:11 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2016 09:08 Velr wrote:
Another dumb question:
How have the Snowden reveals not have had a bigger impact on your local and foreign policy?
I mean... Well... Your voterbase is so uninformed they got Trump in.. So...
At least, in a few years, if you continue like this, edward will be happy he is in russia. How ironic would it be if Trump was the one who pardoned Snowden and Assange (obviously as favors for his Russian overlords)? + Show Spoiler +
What would be the average american reaction to a Snowden pardon? The international opinion would be almost all positive, I think.
Given Trump's ability to say a different thing every minute, it wouldn't be farfetched for him to pardon Snowden if he figures it'll get a positive reaction.
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On November 24 2016 09:39 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2016 09:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 24 2016 09:14 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Wal-Mart intentionally failed to pay hundreds of truck drivers in California the minimum wage, a federal jury decided Wednesday, awarding the drivers $54 million in damages and opening up the retail giant to penalties.
The seven jurors returned the verdict in a lawsuit accusing the company of not properly paying drivers in accordance with California law for activities that included inspecting and washing their trucks and for layovers. Civil penalties will be determined by a judge. The company argued that the drivers are paid for activities that include those tasks and that they are not working during layovers. An lawyer for Wal-Mart didn't immediately return calls seeking comment on the verdict.
Attorneys for the more than 800 drivers who worked for Wal-Mart between October 2005 and October 2015 were seeking $72 million in damages, the bulk of it for layovers. They said during trial that additional damages and penalties could push the total amount Wal-Mart owed to more than $150 million.
Arkansas-based Wal-Mart Stores Inc. — the nation's largest private employer — has faced other criticism over its pay and treatment of U.S. employees.
The company announced last year that it was giving a raise to about half a million U.S. workers. The raises were part of a $1-billion investment that the retailer said also was intended to give workers more opportunities to advance and more consistent schedules.
Wal-Mart drivers are not paid by the hour. Wages are based on mileage and specified activities.
The drivers' attorneys pointed to a ruling in their favor from U.S. District Judge Susan Illston, who said last year that Wal-Mart would be in violation of California law if it enforced its driver pay manuals because they say no pay is earned for certain tasks.
“There's nothing in any of those three manuals that covered 10 years of time that show the drivers were paid for any of these tasks that are on your verdict form,” attorney Butch Wagner said during closing arguments.
Drivers also were not paid minimum wage for layovers even though Wal-Mart controlled their time by requiring them to stay with their trucks, the plaintiffs' attorneys said.
Wal-Mart argued that it paid drivers for activities that included other, smaller tasks and could not have a separate payment designation for everything they did, some of which took just minutes. Source Why would you pay people a fair wage when you can just steal it from them, and only pay a fraction of what you stole back to a fraction of the people you stole it from? I've said this many times, but Walmart isn't alone, this is a VERY popular component to many business models today. Do you have any links regarding that last point? I would be interested on reading about it.
I don't actually know if anyone has written about it but specifically, but I noticed when I was doing some job hopping and I realized after about 3 months each of them was asking me to cover for them stealing from customers.
One of the most recent and egregious examples was Wells Fargo
Wells Fargo employees opened roughly 1.5 million bank accounts and about 565,000 credit card accounts that may not have been authorized by consumers, according to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, which cited figures from the bank’s own investigation that reviewed accounts from 2011 to 2015.
Employees issued debit cards with fake PINs and used phony email addresses to secretly sign up customers for online banking. They temporarily transferred customers’ money to the bogus bank accounts, at times leaving a low balance and triggering overdraft or other charges, according to the CFPB. Many customers also were charged annual fees and interest on the credit cards.
But here's the kicker, everyone involved (legally speaking) didn't do anything wrong.
Wells Fargo, one of the nation’s largest banks, did not admit any wrongdoing as part of the settlement.
That they still have any customers says a lot about the failure of the market to be able to correct itself. There are countless examples over the last decade or so.
If you happen to find some good write up on it please pass it on.
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On November 24 2016 08:43 Blisse wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2016 08:34 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 24 2016 08:22 farvacola wrote:
Pretty low, though interest seems to be building at a steady pace. I think auditing our votes should be a regular practice. Because even if it doesn't change an outcome, people's votes matter (as does our confidence in the validity of our elections) and issues were reported to impact votes unrelated to president at all, which is important to know quantitatively how frequent of an issue it is. One problem would be people voting and not noticing there was a problem. So for instance when a machine is reporting a "malfunction" of switching votes, if that wasn't the first person to use the particular machine, that calls into question every previous vote cast at that machine. However whenever I hear about one of these vote switching machines, they shut it down, "repair it", then go back to voting, I never here any talk about auditing previous votes cast at the machine, so it's never clear how many votes may have gone uncorrected. Focusing on these particular states is clearly a political thing though, I just wonder what's in it for Stein. Maybe she thinks this can spark greater investigations into our electoral system, consistency, or something else? Maybe it's catching Democrats pushing this when they flatly ignored the possibility during the primary where the gap was much larger and had even more suspicious circumstances? It is a bit weird that Stein is the first major party candidate to ask for a recount... neither Johnson nor Stein made it to 5% right? I don't remember which 3? states they name dropped, if they're all pivotal states I would be a bit more skeptical of the claims. Actually I don't think the states matter, cheaters would be smart enough to cover their tracks.
She wants to do Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania (the most pivotal Trump vs. Clinton ones). Michigan and Wisconsin in particular because most of PA doesn't have paper trails.
This is a good defense of the idea (and that it should be a standard practice all the time) from an expert:
https://medium.com/@jhalderm/want-to-know-if-the-election-was-hacked-look-at-the-ballots-c61a6113b0ba#.iuvg7kqpj
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Has there been a discussion over what Kaiser said? I saw the video on italian news and the reaction of the journalist is the most cringy thing I've ever witnessed. And I witnessed a lot, trust me.
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Too many in this country hold some fairy tale utopian view of the free market. In my opinion large corporations are way too powerful now. Look at the crash of 2008 and what we did there. We decided that socialism for the huge corporations was fine (taxpayer bails them out), meanwhile millions lost their homes and so on. Socialism for the wealthy and powerful and free enterprise for the rest of us.
These corporations also use our infrastructure, our educated and hard working populace,and so on, and then dodge paying taxes. But they are powerful and rich enough that they can just fuck off to another country when and if push comes to shove.
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On November 24 2016 09:23 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2016 09:14 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Wal-Mart intentionally failed to pay hundreds of truck drivers in California the minimum wage, a federal jury decided Wednesday, awarding the drivers $54 million in damages and opening up the retail giant to penalties.
The seven jurors returned the verdict in a lawsuit accusing the company of not properly paying drivers in accordance with California law for activities that included inspecting and washing their trucks and for layovers. Civil penalties will be determined by a judge. The company argued that the drivers are paid for activities that include those tasks and that they are not working during layovers. An lawyer for Wal-Mart didn't immediately return calls seeking comment on the verdict.
Attorneys for the more than 800 drivers who worked for Wal-Mart between October 2005 and October 2015 were seeking $72 million in damages, the bulk of it for layovers. They said during trial that additional damages and penalties could push the total amount Wal-Mart owed to more than $150 million.
Arkansas-based Wal-Mart Stores Inc. — the nation's largest private employer — has faced other criticism over its pay and treatment of U.S. employees.
The company announced last year that it was giving a raise to about half a million U.S. workers. The raises were part of a $1-billion investment that the retailer said also was intended to give workers more opportunities to advance and more consistent schedules.
Wal-Mart drivers are not paid by the hour. Wages are based on mileage and specified activities.
The drivers' attorneys pointed to a ruling in their favor from U.S. District Judge Susan Illston, who said last year that Wal-Mart would be in violation of California law if it enforced its driver pay manuals because they say no pay is earned for certain tasks.
“There's nothing in any of those three manuals that covered 10 years of time that show the drivers were paid for any of these tasks that are on your verdict form,” attorney Butch Wagner said during closing arguments.
Drivers also were not paid minimum wage for layovers even though Wal-Mart controlled their time by requiring them to stay with their trucks, the plaintiffs' attorneys said.
Wal-Mart argued that it paid drivers for activities that included other, smaller tasks and could not have a separate payment designation for everything they did, some of which took just minutes. Source Why would you pay people a fair wage when you can just steal it from them, and only pay a fraction of what you stole back to a fraction of the people you stole it from? I've said this many times, but Walmart isn't alone, this is a VERY popular component to many business models today.
Adding to this slightly, was watching the Food Inc. documentary recently, lots of undocumented immigrants work minimum/not-even wage jobs at slaughterhouses, factories and are unable to unionize because they technically can't work there and both sides know it. Stuff just a bit further down in the chain that eventually gets to Wal-Mart.
This is a free market problem, if Wal-Mart doesn't do whatever it can to keep costs down, then consumers will go to other providers, so Wal-Mart is incentivized to skirt the legal line. Consumers aren't willing to pay more for the same services so Wal-Mart is incentivized to continue doing what they do. Wal-Mart will pivot if "it" affects their bottom line, which is how Wal-Mart sells "green" products now.
Also watched Where to Invade Next documentary which had a segment about how Iceland handled the 2008 collapse, and jailing of a bunch of bankers involved, and the election of a comedian for the mayor of Reykjavik.
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Man. How wild will it be if the democrats somehow actually rigged this election recount somehow?
DWS, you're the hero we need
lmaooooo
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EPT
