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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Noidberg
United States17 Posts
On November 24 2016 13:09 Blisse wrote: Off-topic, I mean, you probably just Google'd it but is that site actually called weaselzippers lol Damn you got me, many sites are reporting this i had to pick it, i had to... | ||
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Banaora
Germany234 Posts
If he still sticks to his beliefs from back then I get a feeling why certain people don't want to see him in power. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23491 Posts
The group eleborated on their thinking One problem I see for Hillary supporters is that there's no way to believe this and also believe the idea that Hillary (or her supporters) couldn't have also potentially rigged machines in the primary(where there are much less protections). It's essentially the same argument made by Bernie supporters in the primary, except the anomalies are less suspicious in practically every measure, there are far more protections during the general (the same people supporting Hillary we're the ones running the primary), and they keep mentioning the popular vote (like her margin isn't a result of California and New York, not the contested states) | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On November 24 2016 11:38 Nevuk wrote: Didn't the US do the whole dance with banks failing in the 1830-1850s? Been a long time since I looked at it, but specifically Andrew Jackson's reforms of the banking system (eliminating the central banks) led to some of the boom bust behavior that was very prevalent for the latter 1800s. Basically, we know what it looks like when banks fail. Say what you want about the historical pattern of banks and implications for free markets. Just don't lay bailouts at the feet of laissez-faire types. It's several steps and many factors between theoretical free markets and the recent troubles. | ||
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Laurens
Belgium4552 Posts
Not gonna happen. | ||
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BlueBird.
United States3889 Posts
On November 24 2016 17:08 Laurens wrote: The results in all 3 states would have to change for Hillary to win. All 3. Not gonna happen. While I think its highly unlikely personally, evidence of significant tampering in a single state could cause checks in other states(not these 3) and cause huge investigations depending on the circumstances. | ||
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Dan HH
Romania9138 Posts
On November 24 2016 17:01 GreenHorizons wrote: Well the money got raised. rofl, now the target is $6.5m Also, they added the Ohio green party if you want to donate up to $22,700 (lookin at you farv) The group eleborated on their thinking One problem I see for Hillary supporters is that there's no way to believe this and also believe the idea that Hillary (or her supporters) couldn't have also potentially rigged machines in the primary(where there are much less protections). It's essentially the same argument made by Bernie supporters in the primary, except the anomalies are less suspicious in practically every measure, there are far more protections during the general (the same people supporting Hillary we're the ones running the primary), and they keep mentioning the popular vote (like her margin isn't a result of California and New York, not the contested states) How can the electronic vote be recounted anyway? If someone were to change the amounts, is there a way to tell? This seems like a waste of time to me. Or is the vote not secret and they can call people and ask them if they voted the way they appeared to? | ||
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Laurens
Belgium4552 Posts
On November 24 2016 17:41 Dan HH wrote: How can the electronic vote be recounted anyway? If someone were to change the amounts, is there a way to tell? This seems like a waste of time to me. Or is the vote not secret and they can call people and ask them if they voted the way they appeared to? Presumably they would check if the PCs in the voting stations were compromised by malware. | ||
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Draconicfire
Canada2562 Posts
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
First part is just a quick and early rebuttal to the "deep web of conspiracy" story based on a "Hanlon's Razor" argument. Kind of similar to my own argument; people twitted stuff a while earlier and someone being sloppy is far more likely than this deep web of conspiracy. Nothing too interesting but I'm posting it for the sake of completeness. Second part chronicles a bizarre story that seems to mostly check out, involving Eichenwald and the reporter who published the story on Sputnik. Said reporter, a 29-year-old named Bill Moran, was fired the day after from Sputnik for the outcry to his (removed after 20 minutes) sloppy story. He had an email correspondence with Eichenwald that ended weirdly - basically Eichenwald said he'd get the guy a job with another news agency if he would hush about this whole story. That eventually falls through. I'm not sure anyone would have heard of this despite how much attention the original story got. But it's an entertaining and well-sourced read that is corroborated by their own personal correspondence with the people involved in the story. Third part is a follow-up to the second part, which covers a whole lot of clarifications and semantic arguments that are rather similar to the kind that this thread occasionally has. Read if you like. Fourth part is the one I think people would find most interesting from an issues perspective. It's a debunk of the arguments that Eichenwald made in his "Clinton was the more electable candidate" piece and I think they did a good job of it. In fact I'm going to echo their closing statements on that piece because it's damn relevant to this thread as much as it is to Newsweek, Eichenwald, or media reporting in general: Closing thoughts: I would like to apologize to my readers for the length of this piece, but the claims Mr. Eichenwald presented—ranging from the most banal to the most outlandish—necessitated swift rebuttal. To close, I would like to address Mr. Eichenwald and Mr. Impoco, directly: Gentlemen, you both need to stop. You are shredding the credibility of your publication, and you are doing your readers a disservice. Your loose commitment to the facts flies in the face of the lofty ideal that is your namesake. This cannot be the new standard for journalism. | ||
TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/307462-trump-adviser-tells-house-republicans-youre-no-longer-reagans-party Donald Trump’s economic adviser Stephen Moore told a group of top Republicans last week that they now belong to a fundamentally different political party. Moore surprised some of the Republican lawmakers assembled at their closed-door whip meeting last Tuesday when he told them they should no longer think of themselves as belonging to the conservative party of Ronald Reagan. They now belong to Trump’s populist working-class party, he said. A source briefed on the House GOP whip meeting — which Moore attended as a guest of Majority Whip Steve Scalise — said several lawmakers told him they were taken aback by the economist’s comments. “For God’s sake, it’s Stephen Moore!” the source said, explaining some of the lawmakers’ reactions to Moore’s statement. “He’s the guy who started Club for Growth. He’s Mr. Supply Side economics.” “I think it’s going to take them a little time to process what does this all mean,” the source added of the lawmakers. “The vast majority of them were on the wrong side. They didn’t think this was going to happen.” Asked about his comments to the GOP lawmakers, Moore told The Hill he was giving them a dose of reality. “Just as Reagan converted the GOP into a conservative party, Trump has converted the GOP into a populist working-class party,” Moore said in an interview Wednesday. “In some ways this will be good for conservatives and in other ways possibly frustrating.” Moore has spent much of his career advocating for huge tax and spending cuts and free trade. He’s been as close to a purist ideological conservative as they come, but he says the experience of traveling around Rust Belt states to support Trump has altered his politics. “It turned me more into a populist,” he said, expressing frustration with the way some in the Beltway media dismissed the economic concerns of voters in states like Ohio, Pennsylvania and Michigan. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21969 Posts
On November 24 2016 23:59 TanGeng wrote: How about a new Republican party? http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/307462-trump-adviser-tells-house-republicans-youre-no-longer-reagans-party He is aware populist parties (almost) always go the same way right? They promise the impossible until they get into power, utterly fail and then become irrelevant again. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4361 Posts
For starters she said herself several times that Clinton is more dangerous than Trump, specifically in regard to possibly starting WW3 with her Syria/Russia policy. Why then is she calling for this recount for which she has raised $2.5 million? - Plus she wants to recount Michigan which had no electronic voting machines only paper ballots.How is it possible for Russia to "hack" paper ballots in Michigan? If you're going to recount a state just because it's close why not do NH? Is this just a stunt to get her name recognition? | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On November 25 2016 00:22 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Stein is weird (We all knew this but still....) For starters she said herself several times that Clinton is more dangerous than Trump, specifically in regard to possibly starting WW3 with her Syria/Russia policy. Why then is she calling for this recount for which she has raised $2.5 million? - Plus she wants to recount Michigan which had no electronic voting machines only paper ballots.How is it possible for Russia to "hack" paper ballots in Michigan? Is this just a stunt to get her name recognition? Just because she asks for a recount doesn't mean she “wants” Clinton over Trump, you're confusing several things. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
China will defend its rights under World Trade Organization tariff rules if U.S. President-elect Donald Trump moves toward executing his campaign threats to levy punitive duties on goods made in China, a senior trade official said on Wednesday. Zhang Xiangchen, China's deputy international trade representative, also told a news conference that a broad consensus of academics, business people and government officials have concluded that China is not manipulating its yuan currency to gain an unfair trade advantage as Trump has charged. "I think after Mr. Trump takes office, he will be reminded that the United States should honor its obligations as a member of the World Trade Organization," Zhang said through an interpreter. "And as a member of the WTO, China also has the right to ensure its rights as a WTO member." Trump has said China is "killing us" on trade and that he would take steps to reduce the large U.S. goods trade deficit with China, including labeling Beijing as a currency manipulator soon after he takes office on Jan. 20, 2017, and levying duties of up to 45 percent on Chinese goods to level the playing field for U.S. manufacturers. Trump said on Monday he will formally exit the 12-country Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal in January. Zhang, who spoke at the closing news conference for a two-day technical meeting of U.S. and Chinese trade officials in Washington, was not specific on what steps that China would take to protect its rights under WTO. The global trading body prohibits members from unilaterally raising tariffs above levels that they have committed to maintain. China's state-run Global Times newspaper last week warned that a 45 percent Trump tariff would paralyze U.S.-China bilateral trade. "China will take a tit-for-tat approach then. A batch of Boeing (BA.N) orders will be replaced by Airbus (AIR.PA). U.S. auto and (Apple (AAPL.O)) iPhone sales in China will suffer a setback, and U.S. soybean and maize (corn) imports will be halted," the newspaper warned. Source | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4361 Posts
On November 25 2016 00:24 TheDwf wrote: Just because she asks for a recount doesn't mean she “wants” Clinton over Trump, you're confusing several things. Recounting those states can only help Clinton though. Plus it's fair to note that the scientists found no evidence of actual vote fraud just a discrepancy in total between machines and paper which could be explained by electronic machines being used in big cities and paper being used in rural areas. None of which explains why she wants Michigan recounted because thats all paper ballots.If you want to recount it just because it's close why not recount NH as well? thats my point. | ||
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BallinWitStalin
1177 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On November 24 2016 23:59 TanGeng wrote: How about a new Republican party? http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/307462-trump-adviser-tells-house-republicans-youre-no-longer-reagans-party No surprise here. This is what Trump campaigned on, and this was always the threat of his campaign to the GOP. The GOP will whine a little bit at first, but the reality is 1) they decidedly lost, and 2) they know that Trump's new coalition could give them power for decades. | ||
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