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On November 10 2016 01:06 Elizar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2016 00:49 zatic wrote:On November 10 2016 00:45 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On November 10 2016 00:40 zatic wrote:On November 10 2016 00:36 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
What does Trump means in terms of foreigner policy? Cause u know, we got some nothern empire on borders and that's a bit scary. Nobody's got a fucking clue, and that's the problem. that's...disturbing, hope Merkel knows at least what to do Yeah, good thing we have a leader with a track record of standing up to authoritarian dickheads! *sarcasm* For real though, this is chance for Merkel to lead and defend Western values, against the US if necessary. I personally doubt she has it in her though. As a fellow German, I agree with this 
Stop calling in western values. It's European values. The Americans clearly think differently about things.
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On November 10 2016 01:27 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2016 01:23 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2016 01:21 Logo wrote:On November 10 2016 01:16 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2016 01:11 WhiteDog wrote:On November 10 2016 01:08 ACrow wrote:On November 10 2016 01:05 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2016 00:58 Logo wrote:3) Abortion rights aren't going anywhere. Gay rights aren't going anywhere. You've won on these issues. Even if Trump gets capped and Pence takes over, there's nothing that the president can do to unwind the progress that's been made. Virtually no judge that Trump may appoint will overturn the precedents that have been set. Judges are egotistical assholes, and they'd rather not tarnish their reputations (see John Roberts). And the American people don't have the appetite for a protracted cultural war on these issues right now. Trump didn't even run on those issues. There are bigger fish to fry. Which takes me to my last point.... This one seems incorrect (the abortion part)? There's already a bunch of states chipping away at abortion rights by imposing overly strict regulations on where abortions can be performed or allowing shady centers to operate that appear to be about family planning or offer abortions but then really hammer anti-abortion messages into you. See: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/06/01/14-states-have-passed-laws-making-it-harder-to-get-an-abortion-already-this-year/ among others. Anyone can get an abortion in this country. Unless you're an advocate for late term abortions, the battle is being fought at the margins over convenience. This is a non-issue that is blown out of proportion by the left. That is so egotistical it is disgusting. "I'm male, so I'm not affected, so I don't care". Jerk. Keep your nose out of women's affairs and let them decide you control freak. Come on that's not what he said ... I truly wonder : is the vote Trump some kind of millenarism ? Did US citizens showed their desire for the end of the world ?I've had some tough discussion with students this morning. The media attacked their brains so much they actually thought Trump meant WW3. Like I've said for a long time (and you have said the same), what exactly did Trump supporters have to lose? What was their alternative? They've been maligned culturally for so long, that a populist revolt was inevitable. I think most people probably thought that type of revolt would be more palatable. Or more for "the people" and not just the white working class. It's the white working class that was specifically maligned, though. For how long have they been neglected? For how long have they been forced to take a back seat to the interests of other minority groups? For how long should they endure being thought of as the deplorables? Yes yes certainly, but that wouldn't necessarily mean to imply that they would have to be pitted so starkly against other groups. You should be able to appeal to white working class with something more productive than a message of every other demographic sucks. If not then the deplorable tag really would be well earned.
but he won white women, and he did better than romney with hispanics, and much higher with blacks and browns. He was portrayed as someone who hated minorities and women, but that's not reality.
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On November 10 2016 01:21 LegalLord wrote:
Stuff that happened overnight that people didn't care about (mostly Russia related since... well, you know).
Carrier has arrived: the Russian aircraft carrier has been operating in Syria and they just chased away a Dutch sub that was within 20km of the carrier. Russia is expected to double down on Aleppo right now.
Gas prices and the ruble dropped overnight. Though in the long run it's probably for the best.
Russian government officials had asked to observe US elections, "at a time convenient to the US electoral officials." The ambassador sent a formal request to a few states to ask them for that chance, and was denied (before you ask, it is a pretty normal thing for a foreign government to ask for that). Now, Russia basically said, "if we can't observe yours, then you can't observe ours."
East Europeans seem to be in a panic over Trump's earlier statements. You might see by the fact that Ukraine got brought into here.
We will find that we should be very thankful that the US system is well-designed and quite resilient to these kinds of matters, and we won't be dealing with a full collapse.
Netanyahu called Trump a "true friend" to Israel.
Bernie Sanders folk have been thoroughly vilified for not getting behind Hillary hard enough.
I earned the right to mock Hillary Clinton's electability for the next few months per my earlier statement.
not necessarily panic but concernment, at least so far
it's a scary thing since u got no influence on the situation and knows nothing about upcoming changes
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xdaunt is incorrect, pre-obamacare, while most policies were good, there were some trash policies which actually covered very little, and people would get in trouble and think their insurance would cover them but they'd instead still end up owing massive amounts of money.
most people in general are deplorable, the point of government is to function anyways. it's sad how many of the world's problems are of its own making.
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On November 10 2016 01:23 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2016 01:21 Logo wrote:On November 10 2016 01:16 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2016 01:11 WhiteDog wrote:On November 10 2016 01:08 ACrow wrote:On November 10 2016 01:05 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2016 00:58 Logo wrote:3) Abortion rights aren't going anywhere. Gay rights aren't going anywhere. You've won on these issues. Even if Trump gets capped and Pence takes over, there's nothing that the president can do to unwind the progress that's been made. Virtually no judge that Trump may appoint will overturn the precedents that have been set. Judges are egotistical assholes, and they'd rather not tarnish their reputations (see John Roberts). And the American people don't have the appetite for a protracted cultural war on these issues right now. Trump didn't even run on those issues. There are bigger fish to fry. Which takes me to my last point.... This one seems incorrect (the abortion part)? There's already a bunch of states chipping away at abortion rights by imposing overly strict regulations on where abortions can be performed or allowing shady centers to operate that appear to be about family planning or offer abortions but then really hammer anti-abortion messages into you. See: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/06/01/14-states-have-passed-laws-making-it-harder-to-get-an-abortion-already-this-year/ among others. Anyone can get an abortion in this country. Unless you're an advocate for late term abortions, the battle is being fought at the margins over convenience. This is a non-issue that is blown out of proportion by the left. That is so egotistical it is disgusting. "I'm male, so I'm not affected, so I don't care". Jerk. Keep your nose out of women's affairs and let them decide you control freak. Come on that's not what he said ... I truly wonder : is the vote Trump some kind of millenarism ? Did US citizens showed their desire for the end of the world ?I've had some tough discussion with students this morning. The media attacked their brains so much they actually thought Trump meant WW3. Like I've said for a long time (and you have said the same), what exactly did Trump supporters have to lose? What was their alternative? They've been maligned culturally for so long, that a populist revolt was inevitable. I think most people probably thought that type of revolt would be more palatable. Or more for "the people" and not just the white working class. It's the white working class that was specifically maligned, though. For how long have they been neglected? For how long have they been forced to take a back seat to the interests of other minority groups? For how long should they endure being thought of as the deplorables?
I still haven't figured out how the white working class was maligned. What exactly are their issues that haven't been listened to? The only thing I can think of is that you're referring specifically to the rustbelt, in which case the problem is not with specific policies, it's that their states' economies rely on stuff that has been deprecated (coal and heavy industry in particular). Cleveland is an example of a city that managed to adapt its economy to a mostly service economy and is doing reasonably well. Detroit is the classic example of a city that failed miserably to adapt to a changing economic reality.
That said, given your earlier statements, I expect that we mostly agree on this issue, in that it is more perception than actual policy.
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On November 10 2016 01:27 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2016 01:23 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2016 01:21 Logo wrote:On November 10 2016 01:16 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2016 01:11 WhiteDog wrote:On November 10 2016 01:08 ACrow wrote:On November 10 2016 01:05 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2016 00:58 Logo wrote:3) Abortion rights aren't going anywhere. Gay rights aren't going anywhere. You've won on these issues. Even if Trump gets capped and Pence takes over, there's nothing that the president can do to unwind the progress that's been made. Virtually no judge that Trump may appoint will overturn the precedents that have been set. Judges are egotistical assholes, and they'd rather not tarnish their reputations (see John Roberts). And the American people don't have the appetite for a protracted cultural war on these issues right now. Trump didn't even run on those issues. There are bigger fish to fry. Which takes me to my last point.... This one seems incorrect (the abortion part)? There's already a bunch of states chipping away at abortion rights by imposing overly strict regulations on where abortions can be performed or allowing shady centers to operate that appear to be about family planning or offer abortions but then really hammer anti-abortion messages into you. See: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/06/01/14-states-have-passed-laws-making-it-harder-to-get-an-abortion-already-this-year/ among others. Anyone can get an abortion in this country. Unless you're an advocate for late term abortions, the battle is being fought at the margins over convenience. This is a non-issue that is blown out of proportion by the left. That is so egotistical it is disgusting. "I'm male, so I'm not affected, so I don't care". Jerk. Keep your nose out of women's affairs and let them decide you control freak. Come on that's not what he said ... I truly wonder : is the vote Trump some kind of millenarism ? Did US citizens showed their desire for the end of the world ?I've had some tough discussion with students this morning. The media attacked their brains so much they actually thought Trump meant WW3. Like I've said for a long time (and you have said the same), what exactly did Trump supporters have to lose? What was their alternative? They've been maligned culturally for so long, that a populist revolt was inevitable. I think most people probably thought that type of revolt would be more palatable. Or more for "the people" and not just the white working class. It's the white working class that was specifically maligned, though. For how long have they been neglected? For how long have they been forced to take a back seat to the interests of other minority groups? For how long should they endure being thought of as the deplorables? Yes yes certainly, but that wouldn't necessarily mean to imply that they would have to be pitted so starkly against other groups. You should be able to appeal to white working class with something more productive than a message of every other demographic sucks. If not then the deplorable tag really would be well earned.
Well let me ask you this: who pitted whites against everyone else? Which political party has been heavily invested in racial division for the past generation? And yes, I know how the liberals are going to respond to that question, but the bottom line is that Joe Blow American wants to live in a color blind society, which the left won't allow.
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On November 10 2016 01:23 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2016 01:21 Logo wrote:On November 10 2016 01:16 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2016 01:11 WhiteDog wrote:On November 10 2016 01:08 ACrow wrote:On November 10 2016 01:05 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2016 00:58 Logo wrote:3) Abortion rights aren't going anywhere. Gay rights aren't going anywhere. You've won on these issues. Even if Trump gets capped and Pence takes over, there's nothing that the president can do to unwind the progress that's been made. Virtually no judge that Trump may appoint will overturn the precedents that have been set. Judges are egotistical assholes, and they'd rather not tarnish their reputations (see John Roberts). And the American people don't have the appetite for a protracted cultural war on these issues right now. Trump didn't even run on those issues. There are bigger fish to fry. Which takes me to my last point.... This one seems incorrect (the abortion part)? There's already a bunch of states chipping away at abortion rights by imposing overly strict regulations on where abortions can be performed or allowing shady centers to operate that appear to be about family planning or offer abortions but then really hammer anti-abortion messages into you. See: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/06/01/14-states-have-passed-laws-making-it-harder-to-get-an-abortion-already-this-year/ among others. Anyone can get an abortion in this country. Unless you're an advocate for late term abortions, the battle is being fought at the margins over convenience. This is a non-issue that is blown out of proportion by the left. That is so egotistical it is disgusting. "I'm male, so I'm not affected, so I don't care". Jerk. Keep your nose out of women's affairs and let them decide you control freak. Come on that's not what he said ... I truly wonder : is the vote Trump some kind of millenarism ? Did US citizens showed their desire for the end of the world ?I've had some tough discussion with students this morning. The media attacked their brains so much they actually thought Trump meant WW3. Like I've said for a long time (and you have said the same), what exactly did Trump supporters have to lose? What was their alternative? They've been maligned culturally for so long, that a populist revolt was inevitable. I think most people probably thought that type of revolt would be more palatable. Or more for "the people" and not just the white working class. It's the white working class that was specifically maligned, though. For how long have they been neglected? For how long have they been forced to take a back seat to the interests of other minority groups? For how long should they endure being thought of as the deplorables?
But why do you need the "white" ? The situation of the black working class is ok in the US ?
Even identity politics movements didn't really discussed about the working class as a whole : they talked more about "racism" and "discrimination" (not that they are not real issues) than about inequality and employment.
On November 10 2016 01:23 Dan HH wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2016 01:11 WhiteDog wrote:On November 10 2016 01:08 ACrow wrote:On November 10 2016 01:05 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2016 00:58 Logo wrote:3) Abortion rights aren't going anywhere. Gay rights aren't going anywhere. You've won on these issues. Even if Trump gets capped and Pence takes over, there's nothing that the president can do to unwind the progress that's been made. Virtually no judge that Trump may appoint will overturn the precedents that have been set. Judges are egotistical assholes, and they'd rather not tarnish their reputations (see John Roberts). And the American people don't have the appetite for a protracted cultural war on these issues right now. Trump didn't even run on those issues. There are bigger fish to fry. Which takes me to my last point.... This one seems incorrect (the abortion part)? There's already a bunch of states chipping away at abortion rights by imposing overly strict regulations on where abortions can be performed or allowing shady centers to operate that appear to be about family planning or offer abortions but then really hammer anti-abortion messages into you. See: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/06/01/14-states-have-passed-laws-making-it-harder-to-get-an-abortion-already-this-year/ among others. Anyone can get an abortion in this country. Unless you're an advocate for late term abortions, the battle is being fought at the margins over convenience. This is a non-issue that is blown out of proportion by the left. That is so egotistical it is disgusting. "I'm male, so I'm not affected, so I don't care". Jerk. Keep your nose out of women's affairs and let them decide you control freak. Come on that's not what he said ... I truly wonder : is the vote Trump some kind of millenarism ? Did US citizens showed their desire for the end of the world ? I've had some tough discussion with students this morning. The media attacked their brains so much they actually thought Trump meant WW3. Saw a poll mentioned on No Such Thing as the News a few weeks ago that said a third of Trump's supporters believed his presidency would lead to race riots and the US defaulting on its debt. And a fifth of his supporters said he will start a nuclear war. But then again, maybe more of them thought Hillary would do that as well.
Wow I need to find that poll.
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On November 10 2016 01:21 LegalLord wrote:
East Europeans seem to be in a panic over Trump's earlier statements. You might see by the fact that Ukraine got brought into here.
I think only Ukrainians are in panic, those who are in NATO and pay their magic 2% shouldn't be too worried. Someone in my tv said the results don't really matter to us because "Trump doesn't know where Poland is and while Clinton knows, she doesn't care". And honestly, it's hard to blame them. It's not an important region.
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On November 10 2016 00:53 xDaunt wrote:
For all of you liberals standing at the edge of the cliff, take some solace in the following:
1) American institutions are tremendously resilient. The impact that Trump will have without some degree of bipartisan support won't be that big.
2) Yes, Obamacare is done. Good riddance to it. It's clearly a steaming pile of shit and an anchor on the Democrats. But here's the silver lining: I give it a better than even chance that Trump advocates for some sort of government option (think Medicare for all) as the replacement.
3) Abortion rights aren't going anywhere. Gay rights aren't going anywhere. You've won on these issues. Even if Trump gets capped and Pence takes over, there's nothing that the president can do to unwind the progress that's been made. Virtually no judge that Trump may appoint will overturn the precedents that have been set. Judges are egotistical assholes, and they'd rather not tarnish their reputations (see John Roberts). And the American people don't have the appetite for a protracted cultural war on these issues right now. Trump didn't even run on those issues. There are bigger fish to fry. Which takes me to my last point....
4) Trump is a moderate at heart, and I fully expect him to govern like a moderate. Pay attention to his speech from last night. Notice how he didn't mention the wall? Or even the immigration issue at all? I know everyone is all wound up thanks to the media's relentless negative portrayal of him over the past six months, but I think that there is a real danger that Trump's supporters will be the ones who find themselves supremely disappointed over the next two-four years.
Don't label people and surely not by the term "liberal", it means something different everywhere else in the world. Anyway, are you telling me "the media" computer animated all the things I've seen Trump say and do? Don't look the other way if someone shows disgusting behavior like this.
But I do agree, Cruz would have been worse.
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Come on Hillary, we don't have all day. You've delayed two hours already.
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Seriously tho, the ban on Kwark is not that fun. Would be way better to mock him for three month.
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On November 10 2016 01:28 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2016 01:27 Logo wrote:On November 10 2016 01:23 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2016 01:21 Logo wrote:On November 10 2016 01:16 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2016 01:11 WhiteDog wrote:On November 10 2016 01:08 ACrow wrote:On November 10 2016 01:05 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2016 00:58 Logo wrote:3) Abortion rights aren't going anywhere. Gay rights aren't going anywhere. You've won on these issues. Even if Trump gets capped and Pence takes over, there's nothing that the president can do to unwind the progress that's been made. Virtually no judge that Trump may appoint will overturn the precedents that have been set. Judges are egotistical assholes, and they'd rather not tarnish their reputations (see John Roberts). And the American people don't have the appetite for a protracted cultural war on these issues right now. Trump didn't even run on those issues. There are bigger fish to fry. Which takes me to my last point.... This one seems incorrect (the abortion part)? There's already a bunch of states chipping away at abortion rights by imposing overly strict regulations on where abortions can be performed or allowing shady centers to operate that appear to be about family planning or offer abortions but then really hammer anti-abortion messages into you. See: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/06/01/14-states-have-passed-laws-making-it-harder-to-get-an-abortion-already-this-year/ among others. Anyone can get an abortion in this country. Unless you're an advocate for late term abortions, the battle is being fought at the margins over convenience. This is a non-issue that is blown out of proportion by the left. That is so egotistical it is disgusting. "I'm male, so I'm not affected, so I don't care". Jerk. Keep your nose out of women's affairs and let them decide you control freak. Come on that's not what he said ... I truly wonder : is the vote Trump some kind of millenarism ? Did US citizens showed their desire for the end of the world ?I've had some tough discussion with students this morning. The media attacked their brains so much they actually thought Trump meant WW3. Like I've said for a long time (and you have said the same), what exactly did Trump supporters have to lose? What was their alternative? They've been maligned culturally for so long, that a populist revolt was inevitable. I think most people probably thought that type of revolt would be more palatable. Or more for "the people" and not just the white working class. It's the white working class that was specifically maligned, though. For how long have they been neglected? For how long have they been forced to take a back seat to the interests of other minority groups? For how long should they endure being thought of as the deplorables? Yes yes certainly, but that wouldn't necessarily mean to imply that they would have to be pitted so starkly against other groups. You should be able to appeal to white working class with something more productive than a message of every other demographic sucks. If not then the deplorable tag really would be well earned. but he won white women, and he did better than romney with hispanics, and much higher with blacks and browns. He was portrayed as someone who hated minorities and women, but that's not reality.
Don't try and portray going from 1x% to 1y% is some sort of big win that means your party has wide appeal. It's pathetic sounding.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On November 10 2016 01:21 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2016 01:14 oneofthem wrote:On November 10 2016 01:11 Gorsameth wrote:On November 10 2016 01:10 oneofthem wrote:On November 10 2016 01:09 Gorsameth wrote:On November 10 2016 01:02 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2016 00:57 Incognoto wrote:On November 10 2016 00:53 xDaunt wrote:
For all of you liberals standing at the edge of the cliff, take some solace in the following:
1) American institutions are tremendously resilient. The impact that Trump will have without some degree of bipartisan support won't be that big.
2) Yes, Obamacare is done. Good riddance to it. It's clearly a steaming pile of shit and an anchor on the Democrats. But here's the silver lining: I give it a better than even chance that Trump advocates for some sort of government option (think Medicare for all) as the replacement.
3) Abortion rights aren't going anywhere. Gay rights aren't going anywhere. You've won on these issues. Even if Trump gets capped and Pence takes over, there's nothing that the president can do to unwind the progress that's been made. Virtually no judge that Trump may appoint will overturn the precedents that have been set. Judges are egotistical assholes, and they'd rather not tarnish their reputations (see John Roberts). And the American people don't have the appetite for a protracted cultural war on these issues right now. Trump didn't even run on those issues. There are bigger fish to fry. Which takes me to my last point....
4) Trump is a moderate at heart, and I fully expect him to govern like a moderate. Pay attention to his speech from last night. Notice how he didn't mention the wall? Or even the immigration issue at all? I know everyone is all wound up thanks to the media's relentless negative portrayal of him over the past six months, but I think that there is a real danger that Trump's supporters will be the ones who find themselves supremely disappointed over the next two-four years. Obamacare might be bad (because it's expensive? as far as I read that's the only issue with it?) but it did some very important things in regards to insurance companies no longer being able to fuck over people with health issues. You can't ethically allow health insurance companies to refuse social protection to people because they have health issues. It's fucking stupid Obamacare is bad because it has 1) gutted the insurance coverage of those who had it and were happy with it (a lot of people), 2) it made that coverage more expensive, 3) and it forced expensive coverage on a lot of people who don't even want it. Yes, Obamacare does provide coverage to people with preexisting coverage, but the cost to everyone is way too high. Obamacare is clearly the wrong solution. 1) Many of those plans were useless because the insurer could kick you out if you ever actually got ill 2) True 3) No one can afford an actual serious injury/illness. If your not insured society pays the bill The problem with the ACA was price and that was because the US allows insurers to be greedy fucks who price gouge their customers. Healthcare doesn't have to be so expensive. insurers and providers/pharma, mostly providers and pharma The insurance companies are the ones with the power to force down the price. Consumers cannot do this because they have no power over their health. a lot of consolidation/patents etc on the suppliers side. insurance wants to reduce payout but not overall volume of healthcare services. Big insurance companies have the power to say "we will buy your medicine but only at X price. Say no and you miss out on 10's of millions of customers". They have a bargaining position to work from to get prices down without reducing the volume of services.
a few things,
healthcare in the u.s. is not a volume business. specialist care and various elective procedures and special pharma are the big cost (revenue) items. insurers leverage against hospitals etc works for general care situations but when it comes to the choice between suggesting patients what sort of service they need, both insurance and hospital want the more expensive option.
empirical research has shown consolidation at the provider level is a signficant price driver, particularly if there is quasi monopoly in geography or particular procedures.
insurance consolidation would increase their leverage vs providers, but also their leverage vs customers at the extreme end. if you want some sort of great leverage for insurance companies in this system, it would also break the competitive insurance market.
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On November 10 2016 01:28 joon wrote:He did it guys! Best day of my life 
I wouldn´t be too sure about that.
Time will tell, I guess ...
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On November 10 2016 01:28 Piledriver wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2016 01:18 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2016 01:15 Incognoto wrote:On November 10 2016 01:02 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2016 00:57 Incognoto wrote:On November 10 2016 00:53 xDaunt wrote:
For all of you liberals standing at the edge of the cliff, take some solace in the following:
1) American institutions are tremendously resilient. The impact that Trump will have without some degree of bipartisan support won't be that big.
2) Yes, Obamacare is done. Good riddance to it. It's clearly a steaming pile of shit and an anchor on the Democrats. But here's the silver lining: I give it a better than even chance that Trump advocates for some sort of government option (think Medicare for all) as the replacement.
3) Abortion rights aren't going anywhere. Gay rights aren't going anywhere. You've won on these issues. Even if Trump gets capped and Pence takes over, there's nothing that the president can do to unwind the progress that's been made. Virtually no judge that Trump may appoint will overturn the precedents that have been set. Judges are egotistical assholes, and they'd rather not tarnish their reputations (see John Roberts). And the American people don't have the appetite for a protracted cultural war on these issues right now. Trump didn't even run on those issues. There are bigger fish to fry. Which takes me to my last point....
4) Trump is a moderate at heart, and I fully expect him to govern like a moderate. Pay attention to his speech from last night. Notice how he didn't mention the wall? Or even the immigration issue at all? I know everyone is all wound up thanks to the media's relentless negative portrayal of him over the past six months, but I think that there is a real danger that Trump's supporters will be the ones who find themselves supremely disappointed over the next two-four years. Obamacare might be bad (because it's expensive? as far as I read that's the only issue with it?) but it did some very important things in regards to insurance companies no longer being able to fuck over people with health issues. You can't ethically allow health insurance companies to refuse social protection to people because they have health issues. It's fucking stupid Obamacare is bad because it has 1) gutted the insurance coverage of those who had it and were happy with it (a lot of people), 2) it made that coverage more expensive, 3) and it forced expensive coverage on a lot of people who don't even want it. Yes, Obamacare does provide coverage to people with preexisting coverage, but the cost to everyone is way too high. Obamacare is clearly the wrong solution. OK that makes sense to me but I want to ask a few more questions before I'm truly satisfied. First off, who doesn't want health care? Doesn't want as in "I'm fine with dying if I get cancer" or "I can't afford to cover myself against cancer so I just won't and hope that I don't get it". Neither of them seem remotely appealing. I think that there were a few people in the second predicament and that Obamacare forced them to get coverage anyway (which is certainly clumsy no doubt). The kneejerk reaction from insurance companies (who are all hell-spawn as far as I'm concerned since the number one thing that insurance companies will do is to take your money but avoid covering you when you need it) is to raise rates across the board, as a way to have leverage against obamacare. I don't find it easy to position myself against obamacare, to me the assholes here are the insurance companies. It's not that people don't want healthcare. The problem is that not everyone wants to pay for healthcare. In a private system, it is incumbent upon the individual to protect himself. I personally place a premium on insurance similar protections and hedges against risk, so I have always been well-covered. Not everyone thinks like me, though. You're wrong. People will pay reasonable costs for healthcare, but unfortunately, the healthcare system in America is a racket of the highest order. America is the only place where you are hit with $30,000 bill for a normal childbirth - no c-section, no epidural and no special procedures and insurance is just as expensive for people on hourly wage. I know of very few countries where people have to pay their median per-capita income to get a normal child birth. Its an extortion is what it is.
Where do you think those high costs come from? It's a product of distortions within the insurance industry (which Obamacare didn't address). If you had insurance, even a more moderate insurance policy, you didn't pay huge bills. Your exposure was limited to more reasonable costs.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On November 10 2016 01:11 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2016 01:08 ACrow wrote:On November 10 2016 01:05 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2016 00:58 Logo wrote:3) Abortion rights aren't going anywhere. Gay rights aren't going anywhere. You've won on these issues. Even if Trump gets capped and Pence takes over, there's nothing that the president can do to unwind the progress that's been made. Virtually no judge that Trump may appoint will overturn the precedents that have been set. Judges are egotistical assholes, and they'd rather not tarnish their reputations (see John Roberts). And the American people don't have the appetite for a protracted cultural war on these issues right now. Trump didn't even run on those issues. There are bigger fish to fry. Which takes me to my last point.... This one seems incorrect (the abortion part)? There's already a bunch of states chipping away at abortion rights by imposing overly strict regulations on where abortions can be performed or allowing shady centers to operate that appear to be about family planning or offer abortions but then really hammer anti-abortion messages into you. See: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/06/01/14-states-have-passed-laws-making-it-harder-to-get-an-abortion-already-this-year/ among others. Anyone can get an abortion in this country. Unless you're an advocate for late term abortions, the battle is being fought at the margins over convenience. This is a non-issue that is blown out of proportion by the left. That is so egotistical it is disgusting. "I'm male, so I'm not affected, so I don't care". Jerk. Keep your nose out of women's affairs and let them decide you control freak. Come on that's not what he said ... I truly wonder : is the vote Trump some kind of millenarism ? Did US citizens showed their desire for the end of the world ? I've had some tough discussion with students this morning. The media attacked their brains so much they actually thought Trump meant WW3.
describing the current state of tension as close to war was always an alarmist position taken against a more robust defense of the international order.
the reality is that there is no serious chance of war despite the ramped up rhetoric. the question was merely, what are you willing to fight for. this willingness was the shield for what was at stake, and that's simply it.
it may be so that you or other foreign policy leftists do not appreciate what was being defended, but make no mistake that trump's retreat from this defense has tremendous costs.
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On November 10 2016 01:01 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2016 00:27 Jormundr wrote:On November 10 2016 00:10 oneofthem wrote:
why would she concede when sanders is a policy dunce of historic caliber and lost by millions of votes? get over yourself, or not, and keep fighting the establishment.
Guess what. He couldn't have been worse than Hillary. Because she lost against the worst candidate republicans have fielded in 50 years. You are the policy dunce. You're the moron who thought that the current state of affairs just needed to be made more palatable to the idiotic masses. You were wrong. This country didn't want to continue the slow decline that Hillary promised. This country didn't want more of the same shitbirds who got us here. Now we have Trump. Maybe if Hillary hadn't cheated her way through the primary collusion with news networks and the DNC we wouldn't have DONALD J TRUMP AS A PRESIDENT, but hey you said that was fine because she would get elected. She didn't. Nobody wants your polished turd. There is literally nothing you can do to apologize the damage that you have done to minorities and the queer community in this country. A vote for Hillary in the primaries was a vote for Trump. You made america great again. Congratulations. User was warned for this post two things. 1. i am not a defender of the status quo/advocate for doing nothing. i'm very well aware of the depth of the problem beyond rosy gloss by official positions. which is why HRC's platform has a number of things specifically intended to address the continued labor market weakness, why yellen entertained running the economy hot for a few months without raising rates, why i wanted to see more of an issue based message from her etc. 2. continued war on HRC from the left, particularly the labor based groups, was very damaging. i would not blame the loss on this stuff but the far left quite obviously put war against establishment over the serious trump threat. at various points i've talked about how trump is for real and this is not the time to witch hunt HRC from the left, but no, she's the other devil in the race.
It was HRC that buried HRC. She showed disdain for the primary concerns of about 80% of the electorate in this race. Half of the dems voted for bernie (more would have if she hadn't learned how to put down dark horses after obama). All of the reps voted for trump. Every single one of those voters wanted to fix our broken ass economy so that people could afford their own dignity. HRC laughed at them. Like you, she told them they had no other choice. Her smug conceit may have secured her the trust of the upper class but that doesn't secure you a win anymore. She played old politics, where you just have to stay in line and protect the money and the status quo. She did this in a nation that was desperate for relief from an aristocracy which has been gaining traction for decades. She offered another Obamacare when the vast majority of people wanted universal healthcare.
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Kaine is giving the speech, are fucking kidding me right now? If she doesn't come out of this then holy shit.
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On November 10 2016 01:31 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2016 01:23 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2016 01:21 Logo wrote:On November 10 2016 01:16 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2016 01:11 WhiteDog wrote:On November 10 2016 01:08 ACrow wrote:On November 10 2016 01:05 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2016 00:58 Logo wrote:3) Abortion rights aren't going anywhere. Gay rights aren't going anywhere. You've won on these issues. Even if Trump gets capped and Pence takes over, there's nothing that the president can do to unwind the progress that's been made. Virtually no judge that Trump may appoint will overturn the precedents that have been set. Judges are egotistical assholes, and they'd rather not tarnish their reputations (see John Roberts). And the American people don't have the appetite for a protracted cultural war on these issues right now. Trump didn't even run on those issues. There are bigger fish to fry. Which takes me to my last point.... This one seems incorrect (the abortion part)? There's already a bunch of states chipping away at abortion rights by imposing overly strict regulations on where abortions can be performed or allowing shady centers to operate that appear to be about family planning or offer abortions but then really hammer anti-abortion messages into you. See: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/06/01/14-states-have-passed-laws-making-it-harder-to-get-an-abortion-already-this-year/ among others. Anyone can get an abortion in this country. Unless you're an advocate for late term abortions, the battle is being fought at the margins over convenience. This is a non-issue that is blown out of proportion by the left. That is so egotistical it is disgusting. "I'm male, so I'm not affected, so I don't care". Jerk. Keep your nose out of women's affairs and let them decide you control freak. Come on that's not what he said ... I truly wonder : is the vote Trump some kind of millenarism ? Did US citizens showed their desire for the end of the world ?I've had some tough discussion with students this morning. The media attacked their brains so much they actually thought Trump meant WW3. Like I've said for a long time (and you have said the same), what exactly did Trump supporters have to lose? What was their alternative? They've been maligned culturally for so long, that a populist revolt was inevitable. I think most people probably thought that type of revolt would be more palatable. Or more for "the people" and not just the white working class. It's the white working class that was specifically maligned, though. For how long have they been neglected? For how long have they been forced to take a back seat to the interests of other minority groups? For how long should they endure being thought of as the deplorables? But why do you need the "white" ? The situation of the black working class is ok in the US ? Even identity politics movements didn't really discussed about the working class as a whole : they talked more about "racism" and "discrimination" (not that they are not real issues) than about inequality and employment.
No, the situation of the black working class is not okay, but that's not the point. I'm explaining why the white working class just elected Trump. So what matters are their problems and their perceptions. I hate identity politics, which I have made abundantly clear for years around here. But those identity politics have been forced upon us by the left, so it's hard to ignore them.
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On November 10 2016 01:28 a_flayer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2016 01:06 Elizar wrote:On November 10 2016 00:49 zatic wrote:On November 10 2016 00:45 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On November 10 2016 00:40 zatic wrote:On November 10 2016 00:36 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
What does Trump means in terms of foreigner policy? Cause u know, we got some nothern empire on borders and that's a bit scary. Nobody's got a fucking clue, and that's the problem. that's...disturbing, hope Merkel knows at least what to do Yeah, good thing we have a leader with a track record of standing up to authoritarian dickheads! *sarcasm* For real though, this is chance for Merkel to lead and defend Western values, against the US if necessary. I personally doubt she has it in her though. As a fellow German, I agree with this Stop calling in western values. It's European values. The Americans clearly think differently about things.
True. I actually agreed with the first part: "Yeah, good thing we have a leader with a track record of standing up to authoritarian dickheads! *sarcasm*" and the last: "I personally doubt she has it in her though."
What western values are seems to be a topic on its own.
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EPT
