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On January 01 2013 06:41 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Maybe I'm being too conspiracy minded but what if Obama made those Congress remarks knowing Republicans would react and their bruised egos would never allow them to vote on a deal thus giving Obama and the Democrats the ball on giving tax cuts to the Middle Class etc.
That's standard tactics.
US-Americans are going to bleed. I thought that was common knowledge. On the 8th November Google celebrated Bram Stoker's birthday. It was a clear message.
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Lol and theres the real problem with our politics today. You got so much media thats slanted so hard one way or the other that even the people start hateing the very idea of a fair compromise. That even basic government work is impossible without a supermajority and the death of the enemy party.
The fanatics in the GOP have to be held accountable or they'll continue to hold the nation hostage to their extremism. Even if it takes until the 2014 midterms to loosen their hold, the cost is worth it.
You have to admit that something is wrong with the media that your reading when it advise's a complete economic and governmental shutdown for 2 years to simply prove a point. This is the same attitude that fox was spreading only years ago and now It seems that liberal media wants to follow their example. The republicans have already had their ass's kicked in negotiations with the complete collapse of any spending cuts that I've seen. Now its just horse trading on how much taxes are going to go up (oh sorry grover how much they're going to go down from where they'll be tomorrow I swear).
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On January 01 2013 09:53 Sermokala wrote:
Lol and theres the real problem with our politics today. You got so much media thats slanted so hard one way or the other that even the people start hateing the very idea of a fair compromise. That even basic government work is impossible without a supermajority and the death of the enemy party.
The fanatics in the GOP have to be held accountable or they'll continue to hold the nation hostage to their extremism. Even if it takes until the 2014 midterms to loosen their hold, the cost is worth it.
You have to admit that something is wrong with the media that your reading when it advise's a complete economic and governmental shutdown for 2 years to simply prove a point. This is the same attitude that fox was spreading only years ago and now It seems that liberal media wants to follow their example. The republicans have already had their ass's kicked in negotiations with the complete collapse of any spending cuts that I've seen. Now its just horse trading on how much taxes are going to go up (oh sorry grover how much they're going to go down from where they'll be tomorrow I swear).
Don't be so naive. Such a remark would be utterly unthinkable if Republicans were reasonable and didn't take the country hostage via the debt ceiling. But that's not how it works. This is only the beginning. Next comes round 2 of the debt ceiling hostage drama.
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On December 31 2012 16:56 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2012 13:39 aksfjh wrote:On December 31 2012 13:19 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On December 31 2012 06:21 Adreme wrote:
Okay so Senator Corker(R-Tennessee) is saying Chained CPI off the table. He is claiming that right now the problem is that democrats want to use the tax increase to wipe out the forced spending cuts (essentially meaning nothing changes for anyone who doesnt make more than 250k).
For those wondering he said it on CNN. That's unfortunate. Chained CPI would be a relatively painless step to balancing social security's budget. An even more painless way would be for income inequality to shrink or to increase the social insurance taxable income cap. Are we really worried that we're paying seniors, the widowed, and the disabled too much? Yes, too much is a thing that exists so politicians should worry about it. Doubly true when we are talking about one of the largest parts of the Federal budget. Raising the payroll tax cap is an option, though not a painless one. That's an extra 12.4%+ hit on that income... and that's to a group that's already paying more than its fair share.
Seeing how their share of income has gotten bigger in the past 30 years while their tax share hasn't climbed equally as much, I'm going to say that they aren't paying more than their "fair share" of taxes.
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On January 01 2013 10:04 paralleluniverse wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2013 09:53 Sermokala wrote:
Lol and theres the real problem with our politics today. You got so much media thats slanted so hard one way or the other that even the people start hateing the very idea of a fair compromise. That even basic government work is impossible without a supermajority and the death of the enemy party.
The fanatics in the GOP have to be held accountable or they'll continue to hold the nation hostage to their extremism. Even if it takes until the 2014 midterms to loosen their hold, the cost is worth it.
You have to admit that something is wrong with the media that your reading when it advise's a complete economic and governmental shutdown for 2 years to simply prove a point. This is the same attitude that fox was spreading only years ago and now It seems that liberal media wants to follow their example. The republicans have already had their ass's kicked in negotiations with the complete collapse of any spending cuts that I've seen. Now its just horse trading on how much taxes are going to go up (oh sorry grover how much they're going to go down from where they'll be tomorrow I swear). Don't be so naive. Such a remark would be utterly unthinkable if Republicans were reasonable and didn't take the country hostage via the debt ceiling. But that's not how it works. This is only the beginning. Next comes round 2 of the debt ceiling hostage drama.
Bring popcorn! The medias slanting is getting more and more problematic these days. In the olden days there were very few options. Today you can choose your bias. No it is not only in USA the media are starting to move towards extremes, but since everything is bigger in america, so is the divide between the political extremes.
In this case the media is using the words "fanatics" and "hold... hostage" about a group of politicians in a specific party and how they operate. While it may be true, words like "tea-party representatives", "extreme right politicians" about the persons and "obstructing" or "being uncooperative" about what they do, would grant the article more credibility among a larger share of the population. As it is written I would expect a big chunk of republicans will feel offended and go to other sources closer, in bias, to their opinions.
On the substance: He is certainly exagerating a lot to make a point but about the media, the point is solid. That FOX news more or less started this disenfranchisement-race and has made a business on slanting almost all parts of the media-process is another story.
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The key difference between this and the debt limit is that the debt limit is a hard deadline that they KNOW they cant go over. There is no wiggle room on it if they dont do there job we go into a 2nd great recession and they wont let that happen.
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They still arent 100% sure if that deal will pass the house but it is good news that they at least have a deal amongst leadership.
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So both sides agree to kick the can down the road. As long as the last generation gets to keep their free stuff; their kids(my generation and the one after that) can worry about what happens later. Cause you know, fuck us.
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On January 01 2013 13:12 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
So both sides agree to kick the can down the road. As long as the last generation gets to keep their free stuff; their kids(my generation and the one after that) can worry about what happens later. Cause you know, fuck us.
I dont know what exactly the kicked down the road. I mean they did delay the cuts for next 2 months but 2 months isnt that far down road and at some point they will probably just not have most of them anyway or they will happen slow enough that it wont hurt economy.
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On January 01 2013 13:12 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
So both sides agree to kick the can down the road. As long as the last generation gets to keep their free stuff; their kids(my generation and the one after that) can worry about what happens later. Cause you know, fuck us.
Its a real shame that paul ryan is a republican. If he was a democrat he could probably rally the young (and getting younger) base to ensure the viability of the budget and health care for when they need it.
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The Senate has passed 89-8 the measure to avoid the fisical cliff. With a margin that massive itll be hard for the house to reject it.
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On January 01 2013 13:24 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2013 13:12 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
So both sides agree to kick the can down the road. As long as the last generation gets to keep their free stuff; their kids(my generation and the one after that) can worry about what happens later. Cause you know, fuck us. Its a real shame that paul ryan is a republican. If he was a democrat he could probably rally the young (and getting younger) base to ensure the viability of the budget and health care for when they need it.
Dismantling the programs does the exact opposite of ensuring their viability for younger generations.
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On January 01 2013 13:12 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
So both sides agree to kick the can down the road. As long as the last generation gets to keep their free stuff; their kids(my generation and the one after that) can worry about what happens later. Cause you know, fuck us.
Essentially this is what happens. Free stuff, nobody pays for it. Make overtones about the rich paying for it, but spend 5 minutes on the numbers and you will realize that shafting the top 2% is not going to solve anything (and might do some damage along the way). You want Sweden level of government services, you gotta move towards Sweden level of taxation, and no middle income taxpayer is gonna be sheltered in that scenario. You can only deceive for popular opinion's sake for so long.
Our debt is essentially written in USD, which we're printing like they're going out of style. If the world's choice for reserve currency changes, it'll be no different than the other debt-ridden countries that can't print the money to pay the debt.
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On January 01 2013 19:15 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2013 13:12 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
So both sides agree to kick the can down the road. As long as the last generation gets to keep their free stuff; their kids(my generation and the one after that) can worry about what happens later. Cause you know, fuck us. Essentially this is what happens. Free stuff, nobody pays for it. Make overtones about the rich paying for it, but spend 5 minutes on the numbers and you will realize that shafting the top 2% is not going to solve anything (and might do some damage along the way). You want Sweden level of government services, you gotta move towards Sweden level of taxation, and no middle income taxpayer is gonna be sheltered in that scenario. You can only deceive for popular opinion's sake for so long. Our debt is essentially written in USD, which we're printing like they're going out of style. If the world's choice for reserve currency changes, it'll be no different than the other debt-ridden countries that can't print the money to pay the debt.
And that's why Japan and Great Britain are in such huge trouble with their non-reserve currency and their MASSIVE amounts of debt! They're literally BEGGING investors to buy up their debt and suffering such uncontrollable inflation that people are buying food with wheelbarrows full of money!
Wait a second, that's not happening at all. You should probably reevaluate your views on currency and government debt. I understand that it may be to much to ask of you though.
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On January 01 2013 19:38 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2013 19:15 Danglars wrote:On January 01 2013 13:12 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
So both sides agree to kick the can down the road. As long as the last generation gets to keep their free stuff; their kids(my generation and the one after that) can worry about what happens later. Cause you know, fuck us. Essentially this is what happens. Free stuff, nobody pays for it. Make overtones about the rich paying for it, but spend 5 minutes on the numbers and you will realize that shafting the top 2% is not going to solve anything (and might do some damage along the way). You want Sweden level of government services, you gotta move towards Sweden level of taxation, and no middle income taxpayer is gonna be sheltered in that scenario. You can only deceive for popular opinion's sake for so long. Our debt is essentially written in USD, which we're printing like they're going out of style. If the world's choice for reserve currency changes, it'll be no different than the other debt-ridden countries that can't print the money to pay the debt. And that's why Japan and Great Britain are in such huge trouble with their non-reserve currency and their MASSIVE amounts of debt! They're literally BEGGING investors to buy up their debt and suffering such uncontrollable inflation that people are buying food with wheelbarrows full of money! Wait a second, that's not happening at all. You should probably reevaluate your views on currency and government debt. I understand that it may be to much to ask of you though.
First off, it's the debt in percentage of the GDP that should be the main issue. Secondly, both Japan and GB have a completely different political system than US. Third, both Japan and GB's total debt size doesn't even come close to the US. You really don't know what you are talking about.
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On January 01 2013 19:45 jellyjello wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2013 19:38 aksfjh wrote:On January 01 2013 19:15 Danglars wrote:On January 01 2013 13:12 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
So both sides agree to kick the can down the road. As long as the last generation gets to keep their free stuff; their kids(my generation and the one after that) can worry about what happens later. Cause you know, fuck us. Essentially this is what happens. Free stuff, nobody pays for it. Make overtones about the rich paying for it, but spend 5 minutes on the numbers and you will realize that shafting the top 2% is not going to solve anything (and might do some damage along the way). You want Sweden level of government services, you gotta move towards Sweden level of taxation, and no middle income taxpayer is gonna be sheltered in that scenario. You can only deceive for popular opinion's sake for so long. Our debt is essentially written in USD, which we're printing like they're going out of style. If the world's choice for reserve currency changes, it'll be no different than the other debt-ridden countries that can't print the money to pay the debt. And that's why Japan and Great Britain are in such huge trouble with their non-reserve currency and their MASSIVE amounts of debt! They're literally BEGGING investors to buy up their debt and suffering such uncontrollable inflation that people are buying food with wheelbarrows full of money! Wait a second, that's not happening at all. You should probably reevaluate your views on currency and government debt. I understand that it may be to much to ask of you though. First off, it's the debt in percentage of the GDP that should be the main issue. Secondly, both Japan and GB have a completely different political system than US. Third, both Japan and GB's total debt size doesn't even come close to the US. You really don't know what you are talking about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt
Japan has double the debt to GDP we do, and Great Britain isn't too far behind. Neither is most of the industrialized "West."
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On January 01 2013 19:51 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2013 19:45 jellyjello wrote:On January 01 2013 19:38 aksfjh wrote:On January 01 2013 19:15 Danglars wrote:On January 01 2013 13:12 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
So both sides agree to kick the can down the road. As long as the last generation gets to keep their free stuff; their kids(my generation and the one after that) can worry about what happens later. Cause you know, fuck us. Essentially this is what happens. Free stuff, nobody pays for it. Make overtones about the rich paying for it, but spend 5 minutes on the numbers and you will realize that shafting the top 2% is not going to solve anything (and might do some damage along the way). You want Sweden level of government services, you gotta move towards Sweden level of taxation, and no middle income taxpayer is gonna be sheltered in that scenario. You can only deceive for popular opinion's sake for so long. Our debt is essentially written in USD, which we're printing like they're going out of style. If the world's choice for reserve currency changes, it'll be no different than the other debt-ridden countries that can't print the money to pay the debt. And that's why Japan and Great Britain are in such huge trouble with their non-reserve currency and their MASSIVE amounts of debt! They're literally BEGGING investors to buy up their debt and suffering such uncontrollable inflation that people are buying food with wheelbarrows full of money! Wait a second, that's not happening at all. You should probably reevaluate your views on currency and government debt. I understand that it may be to much to ask of you though. First off, it's the debt in percentage of the GDP that should be the main issue. Secondly, both Japan and GB have a completely different political system than US. Third, both Japan and GB's total debt size doesn't even come close to the US. You really don't know what you are talking about. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debtJapan has double the debt to GDP we do, and Great Britain isn't too far behind. Neither is most of the industrialized "West."
While Japans debt is 208% of the GDP half of that is owned by the Japanese themselves so while their debt is still pretty high it's not as bad as it looks.
The debt of the UK is 86% of the US 105% and the EU 83%. That's a gap of 20% that's quite a large gap...
But I agree that the issue of public debt is a bit exagerated but that doesn't mean you should just let is build up as fast as it does now and let the next generations pay for it.
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On January 01 2013 21:47 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2013 19:51 aksfjh wrote:On January 01 2013 19:45 jellyjello wrote:On January 01 2013 19:38 aksfjh wrote:On January 01 2013 19:15 Danglars wrote:On January 01 2013 13:12 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
So both sides agree to kick the can down the road. As long as the last generation gets to keep their free stuff; their kids(my generation and the one after that) can worry about what happens later. Cause you know, fuck us. Essentially this is what happens. Free stuff, nobody pays for it. Make overtones about the rich paying for it, but spend 5 minutes on the numbers and you will realize that shafting the top 2% is not going to solve anything (and might do some damage along the way). You want Sweden level of government services, you gotta move towards Sweden level of taxation, and no middle income taxpayer is gonna be sheltered in that scenario. You can only deceive for popular opinion's sake for so long. Our debt is essentially written in USD, which we're printing like they're going out of style. If the world's choice for reserve currency changes, it'll be no different than the other debt-ridden countries that can't print the money to pay the debt. And that's why Japan and Great Britain are in such huge trouble with their non-reserve currency and their MASSIVE amounts of debt! They're literally BEGGING investors to buy up their debt and suffering such uncontrollable inflation that people are buying food with wheelbarrows full of money! Wait a second, that's not happening at all. You should probably reevaluate your views on currency and government debt. I understand that it may be to much to ask of you though. First off, it's the debt in percentage of the GDP that should be the main issue. Secondly, both Japan and GB have a completely different political system than US. Third, both Japan and GB's total debt size doesn't even come close to the US. You really don't know what you are talking about. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debtJapan has double the debt to GDP we do, and Great Britain isn't too far behind. Neither is most of the industrialized "West." While Japans debt is 208% of the GDP half of that is owned by the Japanese themselves so while their debt is still pretty high it's not as bad as it looks. The debt of the UK is 86% of the US 105% and the EU 83%. That's a gap of 20% that's quite a large gap... But I agree that the issue of public debt is a bit exagerated but that doesn't mean you should just let is build up as fast as it does now and let the next generations pay for it.
More than half of U.S. debt is owned by Americans, too.
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On January 01 2013 18:45 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2013 13:24 Sermokala wrote:On January 01 2013 13:12 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
So both sides agree to kick the can down the road. As long as the last generation gets to keep their free stuff; their kids(my generation and the one after that) can worry about what happens later. Cause you know, fuck us. Its a real shame that paul ryan is a republican. If he was a democrat he could probably rally the young (and getting younger) base to ensure the viability of the budget and health care for when they need it. Dismantling the programs does the exact opposite of ensuring their viability for younger generations.
Hes not trying to dismantle the programs he wants to make it viable past the baby boomer age. The fact that hes the only one anywhere near talking about this should show you that you should learn what hes really trying to do.
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EPT
