In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!
NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
On October 08 2013 07:28 Saryph wrote: Last week on tv I saw a few Republican Congressmen talking about how they're fighting for the 'union members' and 'little man' while Obama was pushing them down in favor of 'big business.' Also the Chamber of Commerce has been irate, publicly coming out against the Tea Party and the shutdown.
All and all a pretty odd week for me.
That is because the monster they helped create is now devouring them. They essentially lost control and have no clue how to contain the damage that is rapidly getting out of control.
I think the damage is overstated. We are still a long, long way out from the elections, and both parties are taking a hit.
On October 08 2013 07:28 Saryph wrote: Last week on tv I saw a few Republican Congressmen talking about how they're fighting for the 'union members' and 'little man' while Obama was pushing them down in favor of 'big business.' Also the Chamber of Commerce has been irate, publicly coming out against the Tea Party and the shutdown.
All and all a pretty odd week for me.
That is because the monster they helped create is now devouring them. They essentially lost control and have no clue how to contain the damage that is rapidly getting out of control.
By and large, the Republican party has only served to suppress the tea party, both in rhetoric and in campaign funds. The monster was created by Democratic policies the big-business/corporatist Republicans that grew government spending and restricted the rights of the individual. Its birth and growth is a reactionary movement to the Bush years and Obama years.
The political pressure captured by Cruz in his speech finally touched Republican leadership. The base spoke up. Don't wait for Obamacare to be spread far and wide and its effects felt nationally to make efforts to stop it, use the House majority now to defund it. Heritage foundation, conservative talk radio, nonprofits and the rest amplifying that cry. Boehner, being Boehner, axed the full defund and went for some delays and changes, and now is talking about spending changes for part of a debt-ceiling bill.
Obama's been very helpful in showing the Democratic spirit of bipartisanship by rejecting all deals out of hand. He essentially shored up the spines of Republicans that wanted to market a "successful" deal that didn't defund by not accepting any deal of any kind. I think the first token peace offering of spending cuts by Reid will be gladly accepted and end it all.
On October 08 2013 07:28 Saryph wrote: Last week on tv I saw a few Republican Congressmen talking about how they're fighting for the 'union members' and 'little man' while Obama was pushing them down in favor of 'big business.' Also the Chamber of Commerce has been irate, publicly coming out against the Tea Party and the shutdown.
All and all a pretty odd week for me.
That is because the monster they helped create is now devouring them. They essentially lost control and have no clue how to contain the damage that is rapidly getting out of control.
By and large, the Republican party has only served to suppress the tea party, both in rhetoric and in campaign funds. The monster was created by Democratic policies the big-business/corporatist Republicans that grew government spending and restricted the rights of the individual. Its birth and growth is a reactionary movement to the Bush years and Obama years.
The political pressure captured by Cruz in his speech finally touched Republican leadership. The base spoke up. Don't wait for Obamacare to be spread far and wide and its effects felt nationally to make efforts to stop it, use the House majority now to defund it. Heritage foundation, conservative talk radio, nonprofits and the rest amplifying that cry. Boehner, being Boehner, axed the full defund and went for some delays and changes, and now is talking about spending changes for part of a debt-ceiling bill.
Obama's been very helpful in showing the Democratic spirit of bipartisanship by rejecting all deals out of hand. He essentially shored up the spines of Republicans that wanted to market a "successful" deal that didn't defund by not accepting any deal of any kind. I think the first token peace offering of spending cuts by Reid will be gladly accepted and end it all.
Cut military in half. Sell half our military stuff. We'll probably decrease the deficit by a few trillion. I'm glad we could all be agreeable on this issue.
On October 08 2013 08:50 darkness wrote: Why is US healthcare ridiculously expensive compared to EU? Why isn't it possible to decrease it after so many years?
Wanna be a lawmaker? Need campaign funding. Want campaign funding? Need to suck the dick of some industry.
The lawmakers who suck insurance dick made sure it stayed this way.
On October 08 2013 07:28 Saryph wrote: Last week on tv I saw a few Republican Congressmen talking about how they're fighting for the 'union members' and 'little man' while Obama was pushing them down in favor of 'big business.' Also the Chamber of Commerce has been irate, publicly coming out against the Tea Party and the shutdown.
All and all a pretty odd week for me.
That is because the monster they helped create is now devouring them. They essentially lost control and have no clue how to contain the damage that is rapidly getting out of control.
I think the damage is overstated. We are still a long, long way out from the elections, and both parties are taking a hit.
After you predicted Romney winning up til the very last second, I am thrilled to hear you say this ^^
On October 08 2013 08:50 darkness wrote: Why is US healthcare ridiculously expensive compared to EU? Why isn't it possible to decrease it after so many years?
For one, medicare part D stipulated that the government can't negotiate with drug companies on the price of drugs.
On October 08 2013 07:28 Saryph wrote: Last week on tv I saw a few Republican Congressmen talking about how they're fighting for the 'union members' and 'little man' while Obama was pushing them down in favor of 'big business.' Also the Chamber of Commerce has been irate, publicly coming out against the Tea Party and the shutdown.
All and all a pretty odd week for me.
That is because the monster they helped create is now devouring them. They essentially lost control and have no clue how to contain the damage that is rapidly getting out of control.
By and large, the Republican party has only served to suppress the tea party, both in rhetoric and in campaign funds. The monster was created by Democratic policies the big-business/corporatist Republicans that grew government spending and restricted the rights of the individual. Its birth and growth is a reactionary movement to the Bush years and Obama years.
The political pressure captured by Cruz in his speech finally touched Republican leadership. The base spoke up. Don't wait for Obamacare to be spread far and wide and its effects felt nationally to make efforts to stop it, use the House majority now to defund it. Heritage foundation, conservative talk radio, nonprofits and the rest amplifying that cry. Boehner, being Boehner, axed the full defund and went for some delays and changes, and now is talking about spending changes for part of a debt-ceiling bill.
Obama's been very helpful in showing the Democratic spirit of bipartisanship by rejecting all deals out of hand. He essentially shored up the spines of Republicans that wanted to market a "successful" deal that didn't defund by not accepting any deal of any kind. I think the first token peace offering of spending cuts by Reid will be gladly accepted and end it all.
Cut military in half. Sell half our military stuff. We'll probably decrease the deficit by a few trillion. I'm glad we could all be agreeable on this issue.
The military budget has been and will continue to make room for other spending. You can only go so far so fast with that though.
On October 08 2013 08:50 darkness wrote: Why is US healthcare ridiculously expensive compared to EU? Why isn't it possible to decrease it after so many years?
US healthcare used to cost about as much as in the EU. Then for decades bad incentives and policy choices slowly increased costs at every level of the system.
I think it's completely possible to lower costs. So far we haven't really tried. That's part of the deadlock on the ACA, Americans can't figure out how and where they want to cut costs.
why isent the Librals even trying to negotiate the deal to save the government? Obama won't even make a attempt to be democratic and negotiate at all he just wants to run the whole country however he sees fit and dosent care about the democratic progress.
Besides, America is against the obamacare so I am so mad right now
On October 08 2013 10:09 FallDownMarigold wrote: why isent the Librals even trying to negotiate the deal to save the government? Obama won't even make a attempt to be democratic and negotiate at all he just wants to run the whole country however he sees fit and dosent care about the democratic progress.
Besides, America is against the obamacare so I am so mad right now
Part of me wants to believe this is genuine, since it does a great job at embodying the majority of the argument against democrats' handling of the situation. But my years of moderation say it ain't so.
On October 08 2013 10:09 FallDownMarigold wrote: why isent the Librals even trying to negotiate the deal to save the government? Obama won't even make a attempt to be democratic and negotiate at all he just wants to run the whole country however he sees fit and dosent care about the democratic progress.
Besides, America is against the obamacare so I am so mad right now
Huh? He won the election twice, his party won the Senate and the Democrats in the House of Representatives got 1.8 million more votes than Republicans in the last election when Obamacare was a signature debate. Obamacare was also challenged and upheld by the Supreme Court. There is literally nothing he could do that would make it more democratic. Democracy isnt a minority of a minority getting to hold the executive branch hostage and if Speaker Boehner wasnt so afraid of letting the moderate Republicans vote the issue would have been solved.
[QUOTE]On October 08 2013 08:08 Danglars wrote: [QUOTE]On October 08 2013 07:43 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: [QUOTE]On October 08 2013 07:28 Saryph wrote: Last week on tv I saw a few Republican Congressmen talking about how they're fighting for the 'union members' and 'little man' while Obama was pushing them down in favor of 'big business.' Also the Chamber of Commerce has been irate, publicly coming out against the Tea Party and the shutdown.
All and all a pretty odd week for me.[/QUOTE]
... The political pressure captured by Cruz in his speech finally touched Republican leadership. The base spoke up. Don't wait for Obamacare to be spread far and wide and its effects felt nationally to make efforts to stop it, use the House majority now to defund it. Heritage foundation, conservative talk radio, nonprofits and the rest amplifying that cry. Boehner, being Boehner, axed the full defund and went for some delays and changes, and now is talking about spending changes for part of a debt-ceiling bill. ...
.[/QUOTE]
I wonder about this part. Do you really believe this premise? Why don't you want to wait for the effects of Obamacare to be spread? Won't that result in many more Republican voters? Cutting it off early polls like shit (see the 70% disapproval poll a few posts ago). If Obamacare is this job-killing disaster ... wouldn't the prudent thing to do is let it go through and kill those jobs? That would mean so many more Republicans voters would it not?
On October 08 2013 08:50 darkness wrote: Why is US healthcare ridiculously expensive compared to EU? Why isn't it possible to decrease it after so many years?
There are surely severeal reasons, but is also, that most parts of the european medical/pharmaceutical market is regulated by the EU/national governments unlike in the US. Lately had a discussion about organ transplantations.(a familymember of an US friend of mine needed one) Right now, almost everywhere the demand for organs is way higher then the supply. Still, if you compare prizes, in the US my friend was not able to find an offer for less then 120k USD. Obviously that prize is simply made by supply and demand and someone is earning... a lot. (oh, and it's not the spender) Now my friend looked to travel to Western Europe. He actually found offers for 15-20k Euro (20-25k USD). Now my gf is working in that business and actually... a big part of those costs is actually reasonable. Of course there is still a profit margin (and not a bad one), but it more like 150-200% return of investment instead of 1000%. Now of course, if you have an insurance covering this, their calculation is widely different in the US and in the EU .
And it is pretty much like that in the whole pharmaceutical/medical sector. The US are following their course of free market, while the EU is regulating the market by force (and still, pharmacorps are earning quite well). Thus if you need something special... you better hope to be in Europe, because special costs extra on the free market. (and if it is covered by your insurance, then your insurance costs extra, no matter if you need it or not ^^)
In Japan, the government actually sets prices for medical procedures. Definitely not "free market" by any definition of the word, but it certainly does keep their costs down.
On October 08 2013 10:09 FallDownMarigold wrote: why isent the Librals even trying to negotiate the deal to save the government? Obama won't even make a attempt to be democratic and negotiate at all he just wants to run the whole country however he sees fit and dosent care about the democratic progress.
Besides, America is against the obamacare so I am so mad right now
Too obvious. Or just right? Can't tell I'm supposed to be fooled or mad.
On October 08 2013 10:09 FallDownMarigold wrote: why isent the Librals even trying to negotiate the deal to save the government? Obama won't even make a attempt to be democratic and negotiate at all he just wants to run the whole country however he sees fit and dosent care about the democratic progress.
Besides, America is against the obamacare so I am so mad right now
Too obvious. Or just right? Can't tell I'm supposed to be fooled or mad.
I feel like the reason it didn't even get a warning was because it was so obvious lol
Sen. Mark Kirk (R-IL) said he would vote for a clean debt ceiling increase proposal on Monday.
After Politico reporter Manu Raju tweeted Monday evening that Kirk supported ending debate on a clean debt limit increase and furthermore an 'aye' on the actual bill, Kirk's office confirmed the senator's position to TPM.
Kirk is the first Republican to say he would vote for both cloture on a clean debt ceiling increase and then vote for that increase. Democrats are taking steps to move forward with a clean debt limit increase bill this week.
Sen. Mark Kirk (R-IL) said he would vote for a clean debt ceiling increase proposal on Monday.
After Politico reporter Manu Raju tweeted Monday evening that Kirk supported ending debate on a clean debt limit increase and furthermore an 'aye' on the actual bill, Kirk's office confirmed the senator's position to TPM.
Kirk is the first Republican to say he would vote for both cloture on a clean debt ceiling increase and then vote for that increase. Democrats are taking steps to move forward with a clean debt limit increase bill this week.
Makes sense. If you are a Senator in a competitive state you cant worry about just some tea party fanatic primarying you out, you still have to win the general election. The issue is that moderates in the House on the R side are too afraid of the tea party nutters to defect enmass.
Is that really in keeping with the rules regarding this thread? Post some political artist's fantastical smear and have that encompass the entirety of your post? At least have the good sense to make a point and spoiler your humorous contribution!
Of course, the Democrats do have a long history of blaming Fox News and caricaturing Republican politicians (that do not think their way) to fire up their base and preserve their power. I don't know how much you personally agree with those tactics, but maybe I'm learning a little bit now. Keep cycling over and over that the Republicans are to blame and the Democrats are being oh-so-obliging. Your choir will certainly echo it.
EPT
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