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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 521

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18856 Posts
October 07 2013 19:07 GMT
#10401
Whether or not BC/BS will gain customers is difficult to say; quite a bit of forecasting when it comes to the effects of Obamacare amounts to weather, and what will end up making the difference is how the national and state exchanges intercourse with pre-existing insurance schemas. What we do know, however, is that the largest and most influential BC/BS licensees maintain a public anti-healthcare reform platform.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
TheFish7
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States2824 Posts
October 07 2013 19:56 GMT
#10402
Of course none of the insurance companies want Obamacare in place... It's going to mess up their profit margins. Plus they are going to have to cover pre existing conditions now! Oh sweet baby jesus no!
~ ~ <°)))><~ ~ ~
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
October 07 2013 20:07 GMT
#10403
On October 08 2013 04:07 farvacola wrote:
Whether or not BC/BS will gain customers is difficult to say; quite a bit of forecasting when it comes to the effects of Obamacare amounts to weather, and what will end up making the difference is how the national and state exchanges intercourse with pre-existing insurance schemas. What we do know, however, is that the largest and most influential BC/BS licensees maintain a public anti-healthcare reform platform.

Do you have a source for BC/BS's anti-healthcare reform platform? Google is coming up with positive comments for me:

Blue Cross-Blue Shield Bets Big On Obamacare Exchanges

Walgreen, Blue Cross Want You to Join Obamacare

Also, Infogix cites healthcare reform as a specific reason for using their services.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18856 Posts
October 07 2013 20:18 GMT
#10404
I didn't say that BC/BS is, itself, against the ACA; the manner in which insurance provider licensing works makes that distinction relatively unimportant. The heads of the BC/BS organization can meet with government officials on Obamacare in pursuit of beating out their opposition to exchange preference while still having many member companies oppose healthcare reform; that's why I referred to Wellpoint and licensees as opposed to BC/BS itself. I also don't think a corporate self-reference does much insofar as proving or disproving bias, but maybe that's just me.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 07 2013 20:35 GMT
#10405
Seventy percent of Americans disapprove of the way Republican lawmakers are approaching budget negotiations as the federal government shutdown enters its second week, a seven point jump from last week, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll published Monday.

President Barack Obama fared marginally better, with 51 percent of respondents disapproving of his handling of budget negotiations. Congressional Democrats, however, carried a 61 percent disapproval rating, according to the poll.

A Pew poll also released Monday bolstered this perception somewhat. According to that survey, 38 percent of Americans blamed the shutdown on congressional Republicans and 30 percent blamed it on the Obama administration.

The Post-ABC poll, conducted Oct. 2 - 6, surveyed 1,005 adults on conventional and cellular phones with a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3.5 percentage points. The Pew poll, conducted Oct 3-6, surveyed 1,000 adults on conventional and cellular phones with a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3.7 percentage points.

Update: A CNN poll also released Monday found that 63 percent of Americans are angry at congressional Republicans for the way they have handled the government shutdown, while 57 percent are angry at Democrats and 53 percent are angry at President Barack Obama.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
October 07 2013 20:44 GMT
#10406
Those polls sound about right.
DoubleReed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4130 Posts
October 07 2013 20:51 GMT
#10407
We're so going to default. The republicans are too dumb to know that defaulting is actually really bad and they're too dumb to understand why Obama and democrats are unable to "negotiate" with extortion. I don't even think they recognize their own extortion. So they're just going to be like "hurr durr why doesn't he negotiate" and bam. Default.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43753 Posts
October 07 2013 20:54 GMT
#10408
At least no-one can paint the Republicans as the party of business interests anymore. That's been thoroughly disproved by this.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Jormundr
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1678 Posts
October 07 2013 20:57 GMT
#10409
On October 08 2013 05:54 KwarK wrote:
At least no-one can paint the Republicans as the party of business interests anymore. That's been thoroughly disproved by this.

Bullshit. This is politics. You could broadcast a video of you shooting starving children in the face and say that you helped solve child hunger if you spun it right.
Capitalism is beneficial for people who work harder than other people. Under capitalism the only way to make more money is to work harder then your competitors whether they be other companies or workers. ~ Vegetarian
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18856 Posts
October 07 2013 20:58 GMT
#10410
It all seems like a really bad case of inter-party cognitive dissonance to me.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
October 07 2013 21:00 GMT
#10411
On October 08 2013 05:18 farvacola wrote:
I didn't say that BC/BS is, itself, against the ACA; the manner in which insurance provider licensing works makes that distinction relatively unimportant. The heads of the BC/BS organization can meet with government officials on Obamacare in pursuit of beating out their opposition to exchange preference while still having many member companies oppose healthcare reform; that's why I referred to Wellpoint and licensees as opposed to BC/BS itself. I also don't think a corporate self-reference does much insofar as proving or disproving bias, but maybe that's just me.

OK, so Wellpoint and what other Infogix customers publicly oppose the ACA? Blue Cross Blue Shield of Massachusetts is also a customer of Infogix and BC/BS of MA has publicly supported the ACA. It seems a stretch to say that since Wellpoint has offered objections to the ACA (a lot of which don't exist anymore) that one of Wellpoint's vendors would be pressured into publicly lying even though it's in the vendor's best interest not to.

Is there any real evidence that Infgrix isn't being truthful? The government has admitted that they've been having problems and they've been taking parts of the system offline to do emergency maintenance and make changes.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18856 Posts
October 07 2013 21:14 GMT
#10412
All I am saying is that the opinion of the CEO of a major player in the healthcare informatics market as to how ready national exchange software ought to be is just that, an opinion of a highly public figurehead. Others in the field, as the article suggests, take a more measured stance on the system's beginning kinks, considering them practically requisite to the process of creating one of the largest insurance exchanges in the world. In the end, server instability and software kinks are not a big deal, yet.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
October 07 2013 21:25 GMT
#10413
On October 08 2013 06:14 farvacola wrote:
All I am saying is that the opinion of the CEO of a major player in the healthcare informatics market as to how ready national exchange software ought to be is just that, an opinion of a highly public figurehead. Others in the field, as the article suggests, take a more measured stance on the system's beginning kinks, considering them practically requisite to the process of creating one of the largest insurance exchanges in the world. In the end, server instability and software kinks are not a big deal, yet.

Oh, sure, say something reasonable. Now we can't fight
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 07 2013 21:39 GMT
#10414
In his weekly radio address on Sunday, Mayor Bloomberg called on Congress to rectify the shutdown crisis before it affects the aid promised to Hurricane Sandy victims.

"Government can't work for anyone if it is shut down and if the people we elected to lead refuse to work together to solve problems and move our country forward," said Bloomberg. "Right now, Washington's gridlock is doing real harm to our nation's economy and if they don't get their acts together soon New York City families, especially those who endured the worst from Hurricane Sandy will feel real pain."

Bloomberg noted that the majority of city government is not affected by the shutdown, but commented that the city of New York is home to over 27,000 federal workers, more federal workers than any other city outside of Washington D.C., and many of those workers are now furloughed and not receiving their salaries.

The second installment of Sandy relief money has not yet been issued. Bloomberg said during his address that the shutdown is not an acceptable excuse for an additional delay of federal funds that have already been appropriated.

Delays in Sandy aid could lead to a longer wait time for grants and loans that business owners are relying on and will also force additional delays on dunes replenishment and coastal protections.

Democratic mayoral candidate Bill de Blasio also pushed Congress for a resolution on Sunday.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
TheFish7
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States2824 Posts
October 07 2013 21:53 GMT
#10415
On October 08 2013 05:57 Jormundr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 05:54 KwarK wrote:
At least no-one can paint the Republicans as the party of business interests anymore. That's been thoroughly disproved by this.

Bullshit. This is politics. You could broadcast a video of you shooting starving children in the face and say that you helped solve child hunger if you spun it right.


Well those kids certainly wouldn't be very hungry after that.

It's probably true though, they'll come up with some slogan about how the GOP heroically tried to save us all from the evil government ramming their socialized medicine down our throats. I wonder if it won't work this time.
~ ~ <°)))><~ ~ ~
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
October 07 2013 22:16 GMT
#10416
On October 08 2013 05:54 KwarK wrote:
At least no-one can paint the Republicans as the party of business interests anymore. That's been thoroughly disproved by this.

I've thought it was a dubious label for a while. Social conservatives bump heads with a lot of industries over moral / religious issues. There's certainly a pro-business faction in the party, but that faction doesn't always get to be dominant over a given issue.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
October 07 2013 22:21 GMT
#10417
There aren't that many things that republicans generally advocate that are directly "pro-business" in terms of general applicability. The only things that immediately come to mind are lowering tax burdens, reducing regulations (especially environmental regs), opposing labor unions, and opposing tort lawyers. Not all businesses care about these things equally (if at all).
Saryph
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1955 Posts
October 07 2013 22:28 GMT
#10418
Last week on tv I saw a few Republican Congressmen talking about how they're fighting for the 'union members' and 'little man' while Obama was pushing them down in favor of 'big business.' Also the Chamber of Commerce has been irate, publicly coming out against the Tea Party and the shutdown.

All and all a pretty odd week for me.
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
October 07 2013 22:31 GMT
#10419
On October 08 2013 07:21 xDaunt wrote:
There aren't that many things that republicans generally advocate that are directly "pro-business" in terms of general applicability. The only things that immediately come to mind are lowering tax burdens, reducing regulations (especially environmental regs), opposing labor unions, and opposing tort lawyers. Not all businesses care about these things equally (if at all).

Yeah I think that sums it up pretty nicely.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 07 2013 22:43 GMT
#10420
On October 08 2013 07:28 Saryph wrote:
Last week on tv I saw a few Republican Congressmen talking about how they're fighting for the 'union members' and 'little man' while Obama was pushing them down in favor of 'big business.' Also the Chamber of Commerce has been irate, publicly coming out against the Tea Party and the shutdown.

All and all a pretty odd week for me.


That is because the monster they helped create is now devouring them. They essentially lost control and have no clue how to contain the damage that is rapidly getting out of control.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
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