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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On December 29 2012 06:23 Sub40APM wrote: Not all government spending. They have no problem with a bloated DoD budget because 'Muuuuuuuuurica. oh hell yea. without space lazors and guns we'll be overrun by barbarians. | ||
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Jaaaaasper
United States10225 Posts
The gop is already taking the blame for the problems with the cliff, so it won't be Obama taking the hit. Once the fecal matter hits the rotary impeller, the gop will back have to meet somewhere in the middle, and if they don't they are the ones getting hammered in public opinion polls atm, so the republicans need to start bending, not the democrats bending more. | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On December 29 2012 07:46 Jaaaaasper wrote: The gop is already taking the blame for the problems with the cliff, so it won't be Obama taking the hit. Once the fecal matter hits the rotary impeller, the gop will back have to meet somewhere in the middle, and if they don't they are the ones getting hammered in public opinion polls atm, so the republicans need to start bending, not the democrats bending more. until Tea Party hardliners start losing primaries, things are going to stay the way they are thanks to gerrymandered districts. | ||
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On December 29 2012 06:23 Sub40APM wrote: Not all government spending. They have no problem with a bloated DoD budget because 'Muuuuuuuuurica. DoD budget isn't a problem. Its been a bit high due to two wars but those are over. By historical standards military spending is quite low. The spending problem is almost strictly an entitlement problem. | ||
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On December 28 2012 10:36 paralleluniverse wrote: Ummmm, no. There is no chance that middle class taxes will rise. Zero. Democrats will just push through a bill extending the tax cuts for families making less than 250K. This is recession by massive deficit reduction. Somehow, I think the irony will be loss on the masses of unthinking Republican voters. It was also Republican obstructionism that created the fiscal cliff, and that's also preventing a deal from happening. They want spending cuts that would fall on the most vulnerable people, while trying to prevent taxes from rising on those who need it least. If they got what they wanted, the result would be a massive drop in aggregate demand, because poor people spend a greater proportion of their money than rich people. Yeah but they blow it all on cheap China crap  | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
If Mcconell votes No he will risk the vote failing and going over the cliff, if he votes Yes he then has a an automatic and far greater primary challenge. No matter what happens the GOP after being becoming enraged with reality especially after the Obama Presser. | ||
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sc2superfan101
3583 Posts
On December 29 2012 04:07 heliusx wrote: Hopefully the GOP will start shunning people like you who think politics is some game where when you don't get your way the goal then becomes to stick it to "them". I thought you had turned a new leaf after the election but you're more childish and ignorant than ever. One day when you become a taxpayer you might change your tune. they've been shunning people like me for as long as anyone can remember. that's why we lose elections: moderate Republicans who hate their base. and the goal isn't to stick it to anyone, it's to teach people through tough love what happens when they make bad decisions. a parent is not sticking it to their kids when they let them go through heartbreak and pain. it's how people learn not to make bad choices. at a certain point, you have to stop saving people from the consequences of their actions and let them feel it for themselves. and there is no reason to resort to ad hominem just because you disagree with me. edit: as for me turning over a new leaf. to a certain degree, I have. people voted for Barack, and I accept that now. that's who they want, and that's what they want, and that's what they should get. I hope Obama actually tries to do what he has said he will do and compromise. so far he hasn't so my hopes aren't very high, but hey, maybe he will. mainly my turning over a new leaf is me not trying to protect people from their bad choices | ||
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kwizach
3658 Posts
On December 28 2012 10:24 sc2superfan101 wrote: I'm praying for it every day. it's far past time the middle-class actually feels the consequences of their votes. You realize that the Democrats want to extend the tax cuts for the middle-class, right? | ||
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sc2superfan101
3583 Posts
On December 29 2012 12:19 kwizach wrote: You realize that the Democrats want to extend the tax cuts for the middle-class, right? they want to raise taxes on other people. that's a very unfair attitude, especially when the person they voted for actually wants to raise taxes on everyone, and is only willing to cut middle-class taxes so he can try to force Republicans into making a really bad deal for them. (maybe I'm wrong, but that's how it looks from my side) edit: (and the Dems have spent the last ten years blasting the Bush tax cuts as only benefiting the rich and have yet to acknowledge that this was a lie, that definitely doesn't help make me very happy, but I can get over it I guess) | ||
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Adreme
United States5574 Posts
On December 29 2012 12:08 sc2superfan101 wrote: they've been shunning people like me for as long as anyone can remember. that's why we lose elections: moderate Republicans who hate their base. and the goal isn't to stick it to anyone, it's to teach people through tough love what happens when they make bad decisions. a parent is not sticking it to their kids when they let them go through heartbreak and pain. it's how people learn not to make bad choices. at a certain point, you have to stop saving people from the consequences of their actions and let them feel it for themselves. and there is no reason to resort to ad hominem just because you disagree with me. edit: as for me turning over a new leaf. to a certain degree, I have. people voted for Barack, and I accept that now. that's who they want, and that's what they want, and that's what they should get. I hope Obama actually tries to do what he has said he will do and compromise. so far he hasn't so my hopes aren't very high, but hey, maybe he will. mainly my turning over a new leaf is me not trying to protect people from their bad choices So you believe that if people voted for thing A and you give them thing B then that will teach them to never want thing A again? The only thing that teaches is not to vote for republicans anymore though with redistricting that really doesnt matter. | ||
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kwizach
3658 Posts
On December 29 2012 12:32 sc2superfan101 wrote: they want to raise taxes on other people. that's a very unfair attitude, especially when the person they voted for actually wants to raise taxes on everyone, and is only willing to cut middle-class taxes so he can try to force Republicans into making a really bad deal for them. (maybe I'm wrong, but that's how it looks from my side) This is just not true. Obama and the Democrats have repeatedly pushed for an extension of the Bush tax cuts for people with an income below $250,000. They've even passed legislation to achieve exactly that. | ||
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Adreme
United States5574 Posts
On December 29 2012 12:32 sc2superfan101 wrote: they want to raise taxes on other people. that's a very unfair attitude, especially when the person they voted for actually wants to raise taxes on everyone, and is only willing to cut middle-class taxes so he can try to force Republicans into making a really bad deal for them. (maybe I'm wrong, but that's how it looks from my side) edit: (and the Dems have spent the last ten years blasting the Bush tax cuts as only benefiting the rich and have yet to acknowledge that this was a lie, that definitely doesn't help make me very happy, but I can get over it I guess) They never said only they said disproportionately which is why they barely passed in first place. Also taxes are one of the only ways to have a approach for a balanced budget that everyone has to feel. Most cuts affect the middle class far more than the rich so when you only try to balance thru cuts you are affecting the middle class and poor far more than the rich. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On December 29 2012 12:32 sc2superfan101 wrote: they want to raise taxes on other people. that's a very unfair attitude, especially when the person they voted for actually wants to raise taxes on everyone, and is only willing to cut middle-class taxes so he can try to force Republicans into making a really bad deal for them. (maybe I'm wrong, but that's how it looks from my side) edit: (and the Dems have spent the last ten years blasting the Bush tax cuts as only benefiting the rich and have yet to acknowledge that this was a lie, that definitely doesn't help make me very happy, but I can get over it I guess) And that's current reporting in America. They blast the cuts using the class warfare script. When these tax cuts are campaigned for, pushed, and finally passed into law, rich poor and middle class all benefit to no fanfare. Now they're expiring and everybody's suddenly talking about how this will pain the middle class. In typical Democratic fashion, the staggered tax increases from the PPACA are coming into force this year (I might add, I'm wasting a lot of hours I could be spending making money in helping a nonprofit figure out what's gotta change with their healthcare as taxes go up on their employees). So all fiscal cliff, no "Hey, our bad, the tax cuts weren't just for the rich!" I really love these tax hikes! This will come back around Obama's neck in time, increasing taxes on the middle class without all the buzzwords. Maybe it'll happen on midterm elections, maybe in the 2016 elections. Compromise is fine when the Republicans engage in it and the Democrats don't have to (but can talk all day about how it's happening). Oh yeah, and those cuts are cuts in the increase to spending in the coming years (the joys of baseline budgeting, slated % increase is the 0 pt, anything below the increase is a "cut" though spending goes up). I'd like to see some real addressing of the major unfunded liabilities in the Big Three of Medicare, Medicaid/CHIP/PPACA/Social Security. They make up a full half of spending today, in ten years they will be over 2/3. Maybe it's because I've heard the same things every couple years of my life since high school, but it's all starting to sound like this. | ||
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jdseemoreglass
United States3773 Posts
On December 29 2012 13:13 Adreme wrote: They never said only they said disproportionately which is why they barely passed in first place. Also taxes are one of the only ways to have a approach for a balanced budget that everyone has to feel. Most cuts affect the middle class far more than the rich so when you only try to balance thru cuts you are affecting the middle class and poor far more than the rich. It's really a shame that we don't have spending tied to revenue, then arguments like "cuts affect the middle class more" would make no sense at all because they would actually have more money in their pocket through said cuts. As the system works now though, these sorts of arguments are correct. But what I'm saying makes no sense. Why would we have spending tied to revenue when we can have infinite debt? | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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farvacola
United States18866 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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HunterX11
United States1048 Posts
On December 31 2012 04:12 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: FWIW: The Republicans could care less about Chained CPI they just want to sucker Democrats into supporting it. Kind of like Medicare at 67: http://www.gop.com/news/research/reach-out-and-touch-medicare/ | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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