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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On September 17 2016 06:08 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2016 06:06 hunts wrote:
So GH are you voting for trump or just sitting out? I guess since you're in WA it doesn't matter either way, but just curious. Voting locally, haven't made up my mind on the Presidential race yet. I don't think I can vote for Clinton though, it would be giving the democrats a pass to do whatever they want and never fear losing votes (since republicans have no sign of ever fielding someone palatable). But I think pollsters starting to shift to 2004 electorate models indicates that there's a good chance she has lost a huge chunk of the Obama coalition and turnout will likely be down from '08 and probably '12 too. Edit: Plus Kissinger man... How progressives find themselves cheering on a democrat that's appealing to Kissinger for his support is beyond me.
Have you heard what Bernie has to say on the matter? Consider his comments.
“Look, I was a third-party candidate. I began my career running as a third party, getting 2 percent and then 1 percent,” Sanders said. “I'm the longest serving independent in the history of the U.S. Congress, but I think that before you cast a protest vote, because Clinton or Trump will be president, think hard about it. This is not a governor's race. It's not a state legislative race. This is the presidency of the United States.”
“And I would say to those people out there who are thinking of the protest vote, think about what the country looks like and whether you're comfortable with four years of a Trump presidency,” he continued.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/sanders-tells-voters-elect-clinton-over-third-party-candidates
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On September 17 2016 06:14 CannonsNCarriers wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2016 06:08 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 17 2016 06:06 hunts wrote:
So GH are you voting for trump or just sitting out? I guess since you're in WA it doesn't matter either way, but just curious. Voting locally, haven't made up my mind on the Presidential race yet. I don't think I can vote for Clinton though, it would be giving the democrats a pass to do whatever they want and never fear losing votes (since republicans have no sign of ever fielding someone palatable). But I think pollsters starting to shift to 2004 electorate models indicates that there's a good chance she has lost a huge chunk of the Obama coalition and turnout will likely be down from '08 and probably '12 too. Edit: Plus Kissinger man... How progressives find themselves cheering on a democrat that's appealing to Kissinger for his support is beyond me. Have you heard what Bernie has to say on the matter? Consider his comments. Show nested quote +“Look, I was a third-party candidate. I began my career running as a third party, getting 2 percent and then 1 percent,” Sanders said. “I'm the longest serving independent in the history of the U.S. Congress, but I think that before you cast a protest vote, because Clinton or Trump will be president, think hard about it. This is not a governor's race. It's not a state legislative race. This is the presidency of the United States.”
“And I would say to those people out there who are thinking of the protest vote, think about what the country looks like and whether you're comfortable with four years of a Trump presidency,” he continued. http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/sanders-tells-voters-elect-clinton-over-third-party-candidates
Doesn't remotely matter in Washington, it's not like Trump will ever win that state...
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Luckaly most of us live in states where our vote generally doesn't matter enough for us to have to put much thought into who we really want to vote for. Ah the glories of representative republics.
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On September 17 2016 06:14 CannonsNCarriers wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2016 06:08 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 17 2016 06:06 hunts wrote:
So GH are you voting for trump or just sitting out? I guess since you're in WA it doesn't matter either way, but just curious. Voting locally, haven't made up my mind on the Presidential race yet. I don't think I can vote for Clinton though, it would be giving the democrats a pass to do whatever they want and never fear losing votes (since republicans have no sign of ever fielding someone palatable). But I think pollsters starting to shift to 2004 electorate models indicates that there's a good chance she has lost a huge chunk of the Obama coalition and turnout will likely be down from '08 and probably '12 too. Edit: Plus Kissinger man... How progressives find themselves cheering on a democrat that's appealing to Kissinger for his support is beyond me. Have you heard what Bernie has to say on the matter? Consider his comments. Show nested quote +“Look, I was a third-party candidate. I began my career running as a third party, getting 2 percent and then 1 percent,” Sanders said. “I'm the longest serving independent in the history of the U.S. Congress, but I think that before you cast a protest vote, because Clinton or Trump will be president, think hard about it. This is not a governor's race. It's not a state legislative race. This is the presidency of the United States.”
“And I would say to those people out there who are thinking of the protest vote, think about what the country looks like and whether you're comfortable with four years of a Trump presidency,” he continued. http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/sanders-tells-voters-elect-clinton-over-third-party-candidates
Of course I have?
I'm not comfortable with a Trump or Clinton presidency, but politicians blaming voters can stuff it. There's millions more potential voters out there, if politicians want to blame someone (besides themselves) it should be the people who didn't bother to vote (which is certainly partially a result of politicians as a whole).
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On September 17 2016 06:20 Sermokala wrote:
Luckaly most of us live in states where our vote generally doesn't matter enough for us to have to put much thought into who we really want to vote for. Ah the glories of representative republics.
For one single office in the US. Every other vote you cast for local and state elections matters. People whine to much about the presidential race when the senate and house are far more important to effect change.
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On September 17 2016 06:23 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2016 06:20 Sermokala wrote:
Luckaly most of us live in states where our vote generally doesn't matter enough for us to have to put much thought into who we really want to vote for. Ah the glories of representative republics. For one single office in the US. Every other vote you cast for local and state elections matters. People whine to much about the presidential race when the senate and house are far more important to effect change.
Also for all sorts of local ordinances and such. Things like that are real important.
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Looks like some people think that those tweets that I posted may be legitimate news sources.
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What's undeniably funny about all of this is that dredging up the birther story as a means of taking down Trump may end up backfiring spectacularly.
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On September 17 2016 06:36 xDaunt wrote:
What's undeniably funny about all of this is that dredging up the birther story as a means of taking down Trump may end up backfiring spectacularly.
I think the most onerous interpretation of this information is that Hillary thought about pushing birtherism in 2008 and backed off, most likely for political reasons. While that makes her slimy (who would have guessed?) it's still not as bad as Trump championing the idea publicly for 6 years, even after Obama publicly released his birth certificate and the only people left to appeal to were the conspiracy nutjobs.
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On September 17 2016 06:36 xDaunt wrote:
What's undeniably funny about all of this is that dredging up the birther story as a means of taking down Trump may end up backfiring spectacularly.
If it ends up backfiring, I will have officially lost my faith in the Clinton campaign. That would mean that they knew it could backfire, but felt like they'd be able to prevent it. Like many other things. I'll still want her as my president, but I won't have faith that she will be. Hopefully that doesn't happen, though.
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On September 17 2016 06:39 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2016 06:36 xDaunt wrote:
What's undeniably funny about all of this is that dredging up the birther story as a means of taking down Trump may end up backfiring spectacularly. I think the most onerous interpretation of this information is that Hillary thought about pushing birtherism in 2008 and backed off, most likely for political reasons. While that makes her slimy (who would have guessed?) it's still not as bad as Trump championing the idea publicly for 6 years, even after Obama publicly released his birth certificate and the only people left to appeal to were the conspiracy nutjobs.
Wait, how is that onerous at all?
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On September 17 2016 06:39 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2016 06:36 xDaunt wrote:
What's undeniably funny about all of this is that dredging up the birther story as a means of taking down Trump may end up backfiring spectacularly. If it ends up backfiring, I will have officially lost my faith in the Clinton campaign. That would mean that they knew it could backfire, but felt like they'd be able to prevent it. Like many other things. I'll still want her as my president, but I won't have faith that she will be. Hopefully that doesn't happen, though.
They would have to rewrite history. Right now all I am seeing is a tweet from a man who is clearly anti-Clinton who said "I talked to a guy once". NPR, the Post and even a reporter from the Journal who were all covered the 2008 primary just said on NPR that Trumps claims are false.
http://www.npr.org/podcasts/510310/npr-politics-podcast
NPRs recent pod covers it and provides more context for the stuff in 2008.
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On September 17 2016 06:43 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2016 06:39 Mohdoo wrote:On September 17 2016 06:36 xDaunt wrote:
What's undeniably funny about all of this is that dredging up the birther story as a means of taking down Trump may end up backfiring spectacularly. If it ends up backfiring, I will have officially lost my faith in the Clinton campaign. That would mean that they knew it could backfire, but felt like they'd be able to prevent it. Like many other things. I'll still want her as my president, but I won't have faith that she will be. Hopefully that doesn't happen, though. They would have to rewrite history. Right now all I am seeing is a tweet from a man who is clearly anti-Clinton who said "I talked to a guy once". NPR, the Post and even a reporter from the Journal who were all covered the 2008 primary just said on NPR that Trumps claims are false.
I mean, it wouldn't be the first time things looked like they might be alright and then "Wait, nope, pretty shitty". That's what I'm saying. I think she looks totally in the clear right now, but that could easily change...as we've seen :'(
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Hillary has a habit of lying all the time about the most trivial matters, both earning her reputation as a serial liar and blowing small problems into huge ones.
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On September 17 2016 06:45 LegalLord wrote:
Hillary has a habit of lying all the time about the most trivial matters, both earning her reputation as a serial liar and blowing small problems into huge ones.
Unlike Trump who has a habit of lying all the time about the most trivial matters, both earning him reputation as a strait talker and blowing the small statements into facepalm events.
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Feels like this election is a refresher course in Propaganda 101. Small deceptions are easily sniffed out, while constant, absurd lies become overlooked and accepted.
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On September 17 2016 06:48 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2016 06:45 LegalLord wrote:
Hillary has a habit of lying all the time about the most trivial matters, both earning her reputation as a serial liar and blowing small problems into huge ones. Unlike Trump who has a habit of lying all the time about the most trivial matters, both earning him reputation as a strait talker and blowing the small statements into facepalm events.
Well if Trump killed 20 people it doesn't matter if it turns out Hillary killed 10.
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On September 17 2016 06:39 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2016 06:36 xDaunt wrote:
What's undeniably funny about all of this is that dredging up the birther story as a means of taking down Trump may end up backfiring spectacularly. I think the most onerous interpretation of this information is that Hillary thought about pushing birtherism in 2008 and backed off, most likely for political reasons. While that makes her slimy (who would have guessed?) it's still not as bad as Trump championing the idea publicly for 6 years, even after Obama publicly released his birth certificate and the only people left to appeal to were the conspiracy nutjobs.
Sure, I agree with you that what Trump did was worse than what Hillary may have done. My point is that this "fact" may not matter. Trump's spin has taken over the narrative. He's saying, "Hey, I finished what Hillary started," so now people are taking another a look at what, exactly, Hillary started, if anything. And it's looking like there are some skeletons in the closet that Hillary would rather keep under wraps.
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On September 17 2016 06:49 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Feels like this election is a refresher course in Propaganda 101. Small deceptions are easily sniffed out, while constant, absurd lies become overlooked and accepted.
Almost everything that Trump said today was a lie. He didn't end the birther conspiracy, he promoted it up until 2014 and beyond that. Well after Obama released his birth certificate. Clinton didn't start it. But it doesn't matter because the press can't nail him down long enough to respond to anything before he starts to whine.
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On September 17 2016 06:51 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2016 06:48 Gorsameth wrote:On September 17 2016 06:45 LegalLord wrote:
Hillary has a habit of lying all the time about the most trivial matters, both earning her reputation as a serial liar and blowing small problems into huge ones. Unlike Trump who has a habit of lying all the time about the most trivial matters, both earning him reputation as a strait talker and blowing the small statements into facepalm events. Well if Trump killed 20 people it doesn't matter if it turns out Hillary killed 10.
But if Hillary killed 10, Trump would insist he killed 100, and if elected he would kill another 100 because he knows all the best killers.
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EPT
