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He may have overplayed his hand a bit if the media is truly taking offense, destroying footage so it never gets out again is pretty unprecedented. Very poorly thought out and spiteful, but perhaps a sign of a future change of coverage by some reporters?
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On September 17 2016 07:36 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2016 07:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
There's really no way for Trump to remove his birther stain and throw it on Clinton. Perpetuating the birther topic will only hurt him. So far he has parlayed his birther stain into a free press conference and unflattering inquiries into Hillary. How is this hurting him?
By virtue of the fact that he's so disliked in the first place.
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On September 17 2016 07:38 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2016 07:36 xDaunt wrote:On September 17 2016 07:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
There's really no way for Trump to remove his birther stain and throw it on Clinton. Perpetuating the birther topic will only hurt him. So far he has parlayed his birther stain into a free press conference and unflattering inquiries into Hillary. How is this hurting him? Yeah I'm not seeing how this hurts Trump at all. Anyone who's bothered by his position on the birther stuff already made up their mind long ago. This just gets him a lot of free press coverage and makes a couple more of the people who already distrust Hillary distrust her slightly more. I think it's stupid, but the media all kind of just played into Trump's hands on this one.
I'd give oBlade as Exhibit A here, if an ardent Trump follower was unaware of his position on the birther stuff I'm not sure everyone already knew about it and made up their mind
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On September 17 2016 07:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2016 07:36 xDaunt wrote:On September 17 2016 07:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
There's really no way for Trump to remove his birther stain and throw it on Clinton. Perpetuating the birther topic will only hurt him. So far he has parlayed his birther stain into a free press conference and unflattering inquiries into Hillary. How is this hurting him? In particular the birther issue has crucified him with black voters: "Mr. Trump’s refusal to disavow the birther issue helped drive his standing among black voters to historically low levels, with some public opinion polls showing him supported by zero percent of African-Americans." ~ http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/17/us/politics/donald-trump-birther-obama.html?_r=0 Also, it's an easy attack by Hillary during the debates if she wants to go there: "His campaign aides are aware that the issue could also haunt Mr. Trump in his first debate with Mrs. Clinton, on Sept. 26, and they tried for several days to put it to rest." ~ http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/17/us/politics/donald-trump-birther-obama.html?_r=0
To be fair he's already polling at zero. I guess he could drive increased turnout against him or something.
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The media is going into complete overdrive right now, got played this morning and are pretty salty
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On September 17 2016 07:44 Dan HH wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2016 07:38 TheYango wrote:On September 17 2016 07:36 xDaunt wrote:On September 17 2016 07:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
There's really no way for Trump to remove his birther stain and throw it on Clinton. Perpetuating the birther topic will only hurt him. So far he has parlayed his birther stain into a free press conference and unflattering inquiries into Hillary. How is this hurting him? Yeah I'm not seeing how this hurts Trump at all. Anyone who's bothered by his position on the birther stuff already made up their mind long ago. This just gets him a lot of free press coverage and makes a couple more of the people who already distrust Hillary distrust her slightly more. I think it's stupid, but the media all kind of just played into Trump's hands on this one. I'd give oBlade as Exhibit A here, if an ardent Trump follower was unaware of his position on the birther stuff I'm not sure everyone already knew about it and made up their mind
The claim is I didn't know Trump was a prominent birther...?
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On September 17 2016 08:39 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2016 07:44 Dan HH wrote:On September 17 2016 07:38 TheYango wrote:On September 17 2016 07:36 xDaunt wrote:On September 17 2016 07:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
There's really no way for Trump to remove his birther stain and throw it on Clinton. Perpetuating the birther topic will only hurt him. So far he has parlayed his birther stain into a free press conference and unflattering inquiries into Hillary. How is this hurting him? Yeah I'm not seeing how this hurts Trump at all. Anyone who's bothered by his position on the birther stuff already made up their mind long ago. This just gets him a lot of free press coverage and makes a couple more of the people who already distrust Hillary distrust her slightly more. I think it's stupid, but the media all kind of just played into Trump's hands on this one. I'd give oBlade as Exhibit A here, if an ardent Trump follower was unaware of his position on the birther stuff I'm not sure everyone already knew about it and made up their mind The claim is I didn't know Trump was a prominent birther...?
Better question:
Is Obama birtherism on its own good xor bad? Please answer what you, personally think; without saying "Trump" or "Clinton" in the response.
EDIT: I will go first. It is bad. It is racist, fact-free nonsense put forwards by shitlords who can't stomach that the white vote doesn't win presidential elections anymore. There was never any doubt, and all the doubts were put forth in bad faith.
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Huh, well that is an interesting plan. I'm not sure the press is going to play along this time, but we will see.
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On September 17 2016 08:48 JW_DTLA wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2016 08:39 oBlade wrote:On September 17 2016 07:44 Dan HH wrote:On September 17 2016 07:38 TheYango wrote:On September 17 2016 07:36 xDaunt wrote:On September 17 2016 07:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
There's really no way for Trump to remove his birther stain and throw it on Clinton. Perpetuating the birther topic will only hurt him. So far he has parlayed his birther stain into a free press conference and unflattering inquiries into Hillary. How is this hurting him? Yeah I'm not seeing how this hurts Trump at all. Anyone who's bothered by his position on the birther stuff already made up their mind long ago. This just gets him a lot of free press coverage and makes a couple more of the people who already distrust Hillary distrust her slightly more. I think it's stupid, but the media all kind of just played into Trump's hands on this one. I'd give oBlade as Exhibit A here, if an ardent Trump follower was unaware of his position on the birther stuff I'm not sure everyone already knew about it and made up their mind The claim is I didn't know Trump was a prominent birther...? Better question: Is Obama birtherism on its own good xor bad? Please answer what you, personally think; without saying "Trump" or "Clinton" in the response.
Bad, because it made people react too skeptically towards Cruz birtherism.
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On September 17 2016 08:51 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2016 08:48 JW_DTLA wrote:On September 17 2016 08:39 oBlade wrote:On September 17 2016 07:44 Dan HH wrote:On September 17 2016 07:38 TheYango wrote:On September 17 2016 07:36 xDaunt wrote:On September 17 2016 07:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
There's really no way for Trump to remove his birther stain and throw it on Clinton. Perpetuating the birther topic will only hurt him. So far he has parlayed his birther stain into a free press conference and unflattering inquiries into Hillary. How is this hurting him? Yeah I'm not seeing how this hurts Trump at all. Anyone who's bothered by his position on the birther stuff already made up their mind long ago. This just gets him a lot of free press coverage and makes a couple more of the people who already distrust Hillary distrust her slightly more. I think it's stupid, but the media all kind of just played into Trump's hands on this one. I'd give oBlade as Exhibit A here, if an ardent Trump follower was unaware of his position on the birther stuff I'm not sure everyone already knew about it and made up their mind The claim is I didn't know Trump was a prominent birther...? Better question: Is Obama birtherism on its own good xor bad? Please answer what you, personally think; without saying "Trump" or "Clinton" in the response. Bad, because it made people react too skeptically towards Cruz birtherism.
Right, because trying to claim Cruz is not a born US citizen is making you look less crazy...
Edit: Woops got my word order wrong.
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On September 17 2016 08:51 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2016 08:48 JW_DTLA wrote:On September 17 2016 08:39 oBlade wrote:On September 17 2016 07:44 Dan HH wrote:On September 17 2016 07:38 TheYango wrote:On September 17 2016 07:36 xDaunt wrote:On September 17 2016 07:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
There's really no way for Trump to remove his birther stain and throw it on Clinton. Perpetuating the birther topic will only hurt him. So far he has parlayed his birther stain into a free press conference and unflattering inquiries into Hillary. How is this hurting him? Yeah I'm not seeing how this hurts Trump at all. Anyone who's bothered by his position on the birther stuff already made up their mind long ago. This just gets him a lot of free press coverage and makes a couple more of the people who already distrust Hillary distrust her slightly more. I think it's stupid, but the media all kind of just played into Trump's hands on this one. I'd give oBlade as Exhibit A here, if an ardent Trump follower was unaware of his position on the birther stuff I'm not sure everyone already knew about it and made up their mind The claim is I didn't know Trump was a prominent birther...? Better question: Is Obama birtherism on its own good xor bad? Please answer what you, personally think; without saying "Trump" or "Clinton" in the response. Bad, because it made people react too skeptically towards Cruz birtherism.
Yes, good, thank you for the answer on the merits. Not enough answers on the merits going around these days.
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On September 17 2016 09:00 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2016 08:51 oBlade wrote:On September 17 2016 08:48 JW_DTLA wrote:On September 17 2016 08:39 oBlade wrote:On September 17 2016 07:44 Dan HH wrote:On September 17 2016 07:38 TheYango wrote:On September 17 2016 07:36 xDaunt wrote:On September 17 2016 07:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
There's really no way for Trump to remove his birther stain and throw it on Clinton. Perpetuating the birther topic will only hurt him. So far he has parlayed his birther stain into a free press conference and unflattering inquiries into Hillary. How is this hurting him? Yeah I'm not seeing how this hurts Trump at all. Anyone who's bothered by his position on the birther stuff already made up their mind long ago. This just gets him a lot of free press coverage and makes a couple more of the people who already distrust Hillary distrust her slightly more. I think it's stupid, but the media all kind of just played into Trump's hands on this one. I'd give oBlade as Exhibit A here, if an ardent Trump follower was unaware of his position on the birther stuff I'm not sure everyone already knew about it and made up their mind The claim is I didn't know Trump was a prominent birther...? Better question: Is Obama birtherism on its own good xor bad? Please answer what you, personally think; without saying "Trump" or "Clinton" in the response. Bad, because it made people react too skeptically towards Cruz birtherism. Right, because trying to claim Cruz is not a US born citizen is making you look less crazy...
If I remember correctly, Cruz isn't US-born, but his parents' birth/ citizenship/ whatever in the United States makes it okay?
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On September 17 2016 09:00 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2016 08:51 oBlade wrote:On September 17 2016 08:48 JW_DTLA wrote:On September 17 2016 08:39 oBlade wrote:On September 17 2016 07:44 Dan HH wrote:On September 17 2016 07:38 TheYango wrote:On September 17 2016 07:36 xDaunt wrote:On September 17 2016 07:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
There's really no way for Trump to remove his birther stain and throw it on Clinton. Perpetuating the birther topic will only hurt him. So far he has parlayed his birther stain into a free press conference and unflattering inquiries into Hillary. How is this hurting him? Yeah I'm not seeing how this hurts Trump at all. Anyone who's bothered by his position on the birther stuff already made up their mind long ago. This just gets him a lot of free press coverage and makes a couple more of the people who already distrust Hillary distrust her slightly more. I think it's stupid, but the media all kind of just played into Trump's hands on this one. I'd give oBlade as Exhibit A here, if an ardent Trump follower was unaware of his position on the birther stuff I'm not sure everyone already knew about it and made up their mind The claim is I didn't know Trump was a prominent birther...? Better question: Is Obama birtherism on its own good xor bad? Please answer what you, personally think; without saying "Trump" or "Clinton" in the response. Bad, because it made people react too skeptically towards Cruz birtherism. Right, because trying to claim Cruz is not a US born citizen is making you look less crazy...
He wasn't born in the US.
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On September 17 2016 09:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2016 09:00 Gorsameth wrote:On September 17 2016 08:51 oBlade wrote:On September 17 2016 08:48 JW_DTLA wrote:On September 17 2016 08:39 oBlade wrote:On September 17 2016 07:44 Dan HH wrote:On September 17 2016 07:38 TheYango wrote:On September 17 2016 07:36 xDaunt wrote:On September 17 2016 07:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
There's really no way for Trump to remove his birther stain and throw it on Clinton. Perpetuating the birther topic will only hurt him. So far he has parlayed his birther stain into a free press conference and unflattering inquiries into Hillary. How is this hurting him? Yeah I'm not seeing how this hurts Trump at all. Anyone who's bothered by his position on the birther stuff already made up their mind long ago. This just gets him a lot of free press coverage and makes a couple more of the people who already distrust Hillary distrust her slightly more. I think it's stupid, but the media all kind of just played into Trump's hands on this one. I'd give oBlade as Exhibit A here, if an ardent Trump follower was unaware of his position on the birther stuff I'm not sure everyone already knew about it and made up their mind The claim is I didn't know Trump was a prominent birther...? Better question: Is Obama birtherism on its own good xor bad? Please answer what you, personally think; without saying "Trump" or "Clinton" in the response. Bad, because it made people react too skeptically towards Cruz birtherism. Right, because trying to claim Cruz is not a US born citizen is making you look less crazy... If I remember correctly, Cruz isn't US-born, but his parents' birth/ citizenship/ whatever in the United States makes it okay?
Yeah by bad on the wording. Meant to say born us citizen. He was born off US soil but from American parents so he is still American by birth.
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On September 17 2016 08:39 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2016 07:44 Dan HH wrote:On September 17 2016 07:38 TheYango wrote:On September 17 2016 07:36 xDaunt wrote:On September 17 2016 07:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
There's really no way for Trump to remove his birther stain and throw it on Clinton. Perpetuating the birther topic will only hurt him. So far he has parlayed his birther stain into a free press conference and unflattering inquiries into Hillary. How is this hurting him? Yeah I'm not seeing how this hurts Trump at all. Anyone who's bothered by his position on the birther stuff already made up their mind long ago. This just gets him a lot of free press coverage and makes a couple more of the people who already distrust Hillary distrust her slightly more. I think it's stupid, but the media all kind of just played into Trump's hands on this one. I'd give oBlade as Exhibit A here, if an ardent Trump follower was unaware of his position on the birther stuff I'm not sure everyone already knew about it and made up their mind The claim is I didn't know Trump was a prominent birther...?
You've established you didn't know that he claimed the birth certificate was fake for all these years after 2011 (which was until today 'his position on the birther stuff').
And his claims that the birth certificate was fake plus his insinuantions that people were killed to keep this a secret are far more damning of his conspiratard tendencies than his pre-2011 birtherism which everyone knows of. Most people follow Trump and news of him far less than you and many of them will also not know of this since it was never huge news since the long form release. That's the basis of why I disagree with Yango that this can't hurt him at all.
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The conservative posters argued so fervently the position that "hey look Hillary did something bad here, and you won't admit it, so let's talk about that", but the fact remains that the severity of Trump's involvement in birtherism was clearly much greater. And by much greater, I mean much much much greater.
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the biggest difference is simply that even if you'd accept that Hillary started the birther movement(which is probably wrong), neither her political platform or voterbase support any kind of conspiratory or racist crap. So at worst it's a single nasty shot at Obama during their primaries, for Trump this stuff is actually backing his policies and base.
A gaffe is easier to forget if it isn't actually a symbol for your whole political movement.
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On September 17 2016 09:38 Doodsmack wrote:
The conservative posters argued so fervently the position that "hey look Hillary did something bad here, and you won't admit it, so let's talk about that", but the fact remains that the severity of Trump's involvement in birtherism was clearly much greater. And by much greater, I mean much much much greater.
I think it's clear that a status-quo "rational" candidate is looked at very differently than a candidate that is all about tearing it down.
Naturally Hillary is held to a higher standard, and it was very smart of Trump to play his cards in such a way to be in this position. I don't want Trump for being some genius policy freak, I want him to stop the social shift in SJW (like this girl in my city yesterday), political correctness, and bring unity to the USA... As well as a person that I can agree with from a philosophy and values standpoint, regardless of what short-comings he has as a person. Hence I could care less about what Trump says. So yes, he's higher risk, but I'm not afraid of what a President (not a monarch) can do in 4 years compared to my dislike of the current movement in society.
We are here to stay, Donald Trump all the way.
Seriously though, I feel like any person who tries to compare Trump and Hillary side by side has no idea about this election whatsoever, or at least the Donald Trump movement. Either way, using classical rationalism won't lead you to a very meaningful picture of this election.
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Trump seems more about bringing disunity to the USA than unity. but you can want him to do whatever you like, as he surely ain't gonna deliver.
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EPT
