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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 4865

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-31 20:40:23
August 31 2016 20:40 GMT
#97281
"It is the Democratic Party that is the party of slavery, the party of Jim Crow and the party of oppression."

- D. Trump, 8/30/16 (absurdity self-explanatory)
Ravianna26
Profile Joined March 2013
United States44 Posts
August 31 2016 20:42 GMT
#97282
On September 01 2016 05:30 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
It was a Lose/lose for both. And nothing will stop Nieto from leaking anything to the Mexican press after Trump leaves.

Also Trump is now advocating a wage increase, and manufacturing staying in the Hemisphere. So much for bring them back to the US.


A healthy economic Mexico would help stop illegal immigration into the United States. "Make Mexico pay for the wall" was just a way of saying that Mexico needs to do their part in stopping illegal immigration into the United States.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 31 2016 20:44 GMT
#97283
On September 01 2016 05:40 Doodsmack wrote:
"It is the Democratic Party that is the party of slavery, the party of Jim Crow and the party of oppression."

- D. Trump, 8/30/16 (absurdity self-explanatory)

Can someone please ask him how he feels about Jim Crow’s policies? Please?
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-31 20:46:40
August 31 2016 20:46 GMT
#97284
No he was saying he would make Mexico pay for it. Even saying the country would be charged 100k for each illegal immigrant and the wall would get higher each time.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Dan HH
Profile Joined July 2012
Romania9251 Posts
August 31 2016 20:47 GMT
#97285
On September 01 2016 05:42 Ravianna26 wrote:
"Make Mexico pay for the wall" was just a way of saying that Mexico needs to do their part in stopping illegal immigration into the United States.

It wasn't and you know it just as well, it's disingenuous to 'explain' changes in postion by claiming past statements were metaphores for the current ones. Trump does not do that, he makes it a point to speak in the simplest possible way.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
August 31 2016 20:49 GMT
#97286
Great event for Trump. If nothing else, the imagery of being up there with a world leader and having a civilized press conference was a major coup.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
August 31 2016 20:51 GMT
#97287
A lot of Trump's statements are hyperbolic and stupid when taken at face value, but valuable in that they address an issue most mainstream politicians don't talk about.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 31 2016 20:52 GMT
#97288
This will be seen for exactly what it is, a stunt by a guy low in the polls who can’t grab headlines without being an aggressive asshole.

Whatever happened to that press charter plane?
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
August 31 2016 20:54 GMT
#97289
On September 01 2016 05:51 LegalLord wrote:
A lot of Trump's statements are hyperbolic and stupid when taken at face value, but valuable in that they address an issue most mainstream politicians don't talk about.

Trump's comments on NAFTA are a good example of this. Speaking of which, because of this trip, Trump is going to be able to come back to the US and say that he was able to get Mexico to the table to renegotiate NAFTA. The importance of this shouldn't be underestimated.
a_flayer
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Netherlands2826 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-31 20:56:50
August 31 2016 20:56 GMT
#97290
On September 01 2016 05:02 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The financial calamity of 2008 laid bare ugly problems in the global economic order. The mess has now festered into a political crisis that jeopardizes the link between market-driven economies and representative democracy.

So argues Martin Wolf, the most influential living British economics writer, in a Wednesday column for the Financial Times titled “Capitalism and Democracy: The Strain is Showing.” Fixing the economic norms most English-speaking people refer to as “capitalism,” Wolf argues, will be difficult. But a first step requires rethinking what elites have referred to for three decades as “free trade” or “globalization.”

“Those of us who wish to preserve both liberal democracy and global capitalism must confront serious questions,” Wolf writes. “One is whether it makes sense to promote further international agreements that tightly constrain national regulatory discretion in the interests of existing corporations. My view increasingly echoes that of Prof Lawrence Summers of Harvard, who has argued that ‘international agreements [should] be judged not by how much is harmonised or by how many barriers are torn down but whether citizens are empowered.’ Trade brings gains but cannot be pursued at all costs.”

The global economic order of the past three decades has privileged a few elites ― who have seen their incomes and political power expand ― at the expense of a far greater number of working people ― who have seen their incomes stagnate and their political influence wane. Global economic rules allow jobs to be offshored and capital to be reallocated in ways that do not benefit the vast majority of people who vote in elections. The idea that markets promoting individual choice are compatible with democratic forms of government has become an open question, according to Wolf.

These words are an intellectual assault on the Trans-Pacific Partnership and the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership ― two major international pacts spearheaded by President Barack Obama. Public controversy surrounding TTIP is largely constrained within the European Union at the moment, but the TPP has become one of the most important issues of the 2016 U.S. presidential election ― though it rarely receives coverage on cable news.

The TPP is modeled on the North American Free Trade Agreement and World Trade Organization treaties that preceded it. The deal would grant corporations the right to challenge the laws and regulations of sovereign governments before a secretive international tribunal. Labor unions, environmental activists and other representatives of civil society would not be afforded the same privilege. The agreement is widely viewed as an effort to give multinational corporations greater influence over political decision-making.

Wolf and Summers are not revolutionaries armed with hammers and sickles. They are deeply respected by and embedded within the global economic elite, so much so that both are viewed with skepticism ― and in Summers’ case, often outright hostility ― by American progressives.

Source


I think I like what that Wolf guy has to say. It seems like a very accurate description of the major problem I have with capitalism as it exists today. I am probably out of bounds if I were to ask for a way to read the original article without going through a paywal, which is why I won't do that.
When you came along so righteous with a new national hate, so convincing is the ardor of war and of men, it's harder to breathe than to believe you're a friend. The wars at home, the wars abroad, all soaked in blood and lies and fraud.
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6628 Posts
August 31 2016 20:56 GMT
#97291
On September 01 2016 05:36 On_Slaught wrote:
Show nested quote +
[B]On September 01 2016 05:29 oBlade wrote:
Deporting US citizens, where do you get your news? That's a caricature.


It's common knowledge he said he wants to deport families. When asked about children who were legally born here he said he wants to keep families together, but they have to go.

He's talked about ending unconditional birthright citizenship.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-31 20:58:50
August 31 2016 20:58 GMT
#97292
On September 01 2016 05:54 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2016 05:51 LegalLord wrote:
A lot of Trump's statements are hyperbolic and stupid when taken at face value, but valuable in that they address an issue most mainstream politicians don't talk about.

Trump's comments on NAFTA are a good example of this. Speaking of which, because of this trip, Trump is going to be able to come back to the US and say that he was able to get Mexico to the table to renegotiate NAFTA. The importance of this shouldn't be underestimated.


It's a rather large leap from "Trump mentions NAFTA in prepared remarks after meeting the Mexican President" to "Trump got Mexico to the table to renegotiate NAFTA".
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 31 2016 20:58 GMT
#97293
On September 01 2016 05:54 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2016 05:51 LegalLord wrote:
A lot of Trump's statements are hyperbolic and stupid when taken at face value, but valuable in that they address an issue most mainstream politicians don't talk about.

Trump's comments on NAFTA are a good example of this. Speaking of which, because of this trip, Trump is going to be able to come back to the US and say that he was able to get Mexico to the table to renegotiate NAFTA. The importance of this shouldn't be underestimated.


Except that not what either said. Trump said he wants to keep manufacturing in the Hemisphere. Nothing about bringing jobs back to the United States.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
August 31 2016 21:00 GMT
#97294
On September 01 2016 05:58 ticklishmusic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2016 05:54 xDaunt wrote:
On September 01 2016 05:51 LegalLord wrote:
A lot of Trump's statements are hyperbolic and stupid when taken at face value, but valuable in that they address an issue most mainstream politicians don't talk about.

Trump's comments on NAFTA are a good example of this. Speaking of which, because of this trip, Trump is going to be able to come back to the US and say that he was able to get Mexico to the table to renegotiate NAFTA. The importance of this shouldn't be underestimated.


It's a rather large leap from "Trump mentions NAFTA in prepared remarks after meeting the Mexican President" to "Trump got Mexico to the table to renegotiate NAFTA".

It's not about what Trump said. It's about what Nieto said. Nieto said that Mexico is willing to renegotiate NAFTA to "modernize" it.
JinDesu
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3990 Posts
August 31 2016 21:01 GMT
#97295
On September 01 2016 05:58 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2016 05:54 xDaunt wrote:
On September 01 2016 05:51 LegalLord wrote:
A lot of Trump's statements are hyperbolic and stupid when taken at face value, but valuable in that they address an issue most mainstream politicians don't talk about.

Trump's comments on NAFTA are a good example of this. Speaking of which, because of this trip, Trump is going to be able to come back to the US and say that he was able to get Mexico to the table to renegotiate NAFTA. The importance of this shouldn't be underestimated.


Except that not what either said. Trump said he wants to keep manufacturing in the Hemisphere. Nothing about bringing jobs back to the United States.


The solution is obvious. Trump will take over Mexico. This solves the wall problem, the manufacturing problem, and the deportation problem. It'll be called, New New Mexico.
Yargh
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
August 31 2016 21:01 GMT
#97296
On September 01 2016 05:14 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Nieto just said he and Trump agreed on how good NAFTA was for both nations...

Now that's kinda funny.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18870 Posts
August 31 2016 21:02 GMT
#97297
This idea that we ought rush to a conclusion as to the value/impact of a political gesture like that made by Trump today is not a good one. You have to let the paint dry before the picture can be framed.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28915 Posts
August 31 2016 21:07 GMT
#97298
On September 01 2016 05:36 On_Slaught wrote:
Show nested quote +
[B]On September 01 2016 05:29 oBlade wrote:
Deporting US citizens, where do you get your news? That's a caricature.


It's common knowledge he said he wants to deport families. When asked about children who were legally born here he said he wants to keep families together, but they have to go.


My googling here doesn't really give me a clear cut answer. Are children of illegal immigrants granted citizenship? All I'm seeing is that the children of legal immigrants are automatically granted citizenship status, but to quote wikipedia,
The Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution indicates that "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." The Supreme Court of the United States affirmed in United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898), that the Fourteenth Amendment guarantees citizenship for nearly all individuals born in the United States, provided that their parents are foreign citizens, have permanent domicile status in the United States, and are engaging in business in the United States except performing in a diplomatic or official capacity of a foreign power.

As of 2015, there has been no Supreme Court decision that explicitly holds that persons born in the U.S. to illegal aliens are automatically afforded U.S. citizenship Edward Erler, writing for the Claremont Institute, said that since the Wong Kim Ark case dealt with someone whose parents were in the United States legally, it provides no valid basis under the 14th Amendment for the practice of granting citizenship to U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants. He goes on to argue that if governmental permission for parental entry is a necessary requirement for bestowal of birthright citizenship, then children of illegal aliens must surely be excluded.


From this, I don't see how Trump wants to deport US citizens, even if he wants to deport children born here.
Moderator
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 31 2016 21:09 GMT
#97299
The question was asked specifically about kids born in the US that would be citizens in recent interviews and he said "they have got to go."
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20255 Posts
August 31 2016 21:10 GMT
#97300
If you are born here you are a citizen. Period. Which is why the phrase "anchor baby" exists.
Never Knows Best.
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