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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On September 01 2016 05:51 LegalLord wrote:
A lot of Trump's statements are hyperbolic and stupid when taken at face value, but valuable in that they address an issue most mainstream politicians don't talk about.
as a hopeful mainstream politician, I promise to address each of those issues (if they're at least vaguely sensible at least).
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Isn't it interesting that the whole case against Hillary is "how can we know she means what she says?" when the whole case in favor of Trump is "don't worry. he doesn't mean what he says."
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On September 01 2016 05:52 Plansix wrote:
This will be seen for exactly what it is, a stunt by a guy low in the polls who can’t grab headlines without being an aggressive asshole.
Whatever happened to that press charter plane?
Is he really that low in the heads up polls? LA had him up 3 and the newest Reuters poll has him down 1, but well within the MoE.
I think they are all shooting in the dark though a bit, as I doubt this electorate will look much like any in our recent past, or what many predicted a year or two ago.
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On September 01 2016 06:20 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2016 05:52 Plansix wrote:
This will be seen for exactly what it is, a stunt by a guy low in the polls who can’t grab headlines without being an aggressive asshole.
Whatever happened to that press charter plane?
Is he really that low in the heads up polls? LA had him up 3 and the newest Reuters poll has him down 1, but well within the MoE. I think they are all shooting in the dark though a bit, as I doubt this electorate will look much like any in our recent past, or what many predicted a year or two ago.
I'm basing it on 538s break down and other polls.
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On September 01 2016 06:20 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2016 05:52 Plansix wrote:
This will be seen for exactly what it is, a stunt by a guy low in the polls who can’t grab headlines without being an aggressive asshole.
Whatever happened to that press charter plane?
Is he really that low in the heads up polls? LA had him up 3 and the newest Reuters poll has him down 1, but well within the MoE. I think they are all shooting in the dark though a bit, as I doubt this electorate will look much like any in our recent past, or what many predicted a year or two ago.
1) Yes.
2) National polls don't matter since he's getting beat in any number of swing states.
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"Who pays for the wall? We didn't discuss," Trump said when asked by a reporter during a news conference following their meeting in Mexico City. "We did discuss the wall. We didn't discuss payment of the wall. That'll be for a later date."
How does this become a "flip flop" and "total Trump capitulation." And how would a "flip flop" even be negative if you don't like the wall?
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So speaking of 538, I'm calling this chat "Nate Silver has had it with this fucking election."
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-immigration-chat/
Excerpts:
micah: Yeah, it seems like even if he shits positions, Anna, voters won’t forget about his old one.
* “Shifts,” that should say.
natesilver: I think “shits” is more accurate tbh.
micah: [Trump is] giving a “MAJOR!!!” speech on immigration Wednesday; what will you all be watching for?
natesilver: I think I have a fantasy football draft so I’ll be watching for whether there’s a run on wide receivers.
harry: I’m less interested in what he says than how he says it. That’s part of what got Trump in so much trouble in the first place. It’s one thing to say we’re going to build a wall. It’s another to talk about Mexicans as rapists.
micah: Nate, you’re playing into people’s stereotypes about how we don’t care about issues.
natesilver: 180 degrees wrong! It’s not a fucking policy speech!
micah: It might be.
natesilver: It would be disrespectful to policy speeches to see it as a policy speech.
harry: This chat is rated R.
micah: The speech hasn’t even happened yet! How will you know if it’s a policy speech if you don’t watch?
natesilver: Anything he says carries no substantive weight because he’s already taken every available position on the issue.
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On September 01 2016 06:40 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +"Who pays for the wall? We didn't discuss," Trump said when asked by a reporter during a news conference following their meeting in Mexico City. "We did discuss the wall. We didn't discuss payment of the wall. That'll be for a later date." How does this become a "flip flop" and "total Trump capitulation." And how would a "flip flop" even be negative if you don't like the wall?
1) Trump said Mexico would pay for the wall (see campaign memo). Given the chance, he didn't bring it up (or any of the acts laid out in the campaign memo). Position abandoned. He will try to half walk this back today and tomorrow, but it won't work, just like his mass deportation walk back.
2) I can hold the following two positions and remain consistent:
A - Trump's wall is foolishness and his plan to make Mexico pay for it is both a lie and foolish
B - Trump is a deeply inconsistent flip-flopper who flips positions on a minute by minute basis to appease whoever he is talking to at that moment (see him not bringing up wall)
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"It is the Democratic Party that is the party of slavery, the party of Jim Crow and the party of oppression."
- D. Trump, 8/30/16 (absurdity self-explanatory)
How is it absurd? Many segregation-era political leaders were democrats, famously George Wallace. As I've heard Rush point out, a larger percentage of Republicans voted for the Civil Rights Act than Democrats.
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On September 01 2016 06:42 Yoav wrote:So speaking of 538, I'm calling this chat "Nate Silver has had it with this fucking election." http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-immigration-chat/Excerpts: Show nested quote +micah: Yeah, it seems like even if he shits positions, Anna, voters won’t forget about his old one.
* “Shifts,” that should say.
natesilver: I think “shits” is more accurate tbh. Show nested quote +micah: [Trump is] giving a “MAJOR!!!” speech on immigration Wednesday; what will you all be watching for?
natesilver: I think I have a fantasy football draft so I’ll be watching for whether there’s a run on wide receivers.
harry: I’m less interested in what he says than how he says it. That’s part of what got Trump in so much trouble in the first place. It’s one thing to say we’re going to build a wall. It’s another to talk about Mexicans as rapists.
micah: Nate, you’re playing into people’s stereotypes about how we don’t care about issues.
natesilver: 180 degrees wrong! It’s not a fucking policy speech!
micah: It might be.
natesilver: It would be disrespectful to policy speeches to see it as a policy speech.
harry: This chat is rated R.
micah: The speech hasn’t even happened yet! How will you know if it’s a policy speech if you don’t watch?
natesilver: Anything he says carries no substantive weight because he’s already taken every available position on the issue.
His twitter feed has been pretty good lately too. He is so done with Trump or even trying to make sense of his plans.
On September 01 2016 06:49 josephmcjoe wrote:Show nested quote +"It is the Democratic Party that is the party of slavery, the party of Jim Crow and the party of oppression."
- D. Trump, 8/30/16 (absurdity self-explanatory) How is it absurd? Many segregation-era political leaders were democrats, famously George Wallace. As I've heard Rush point out, a larger percentage of Republicans voted for the Civil Rights Act than Democrats.
Um....the modern republican party has been milking the southern strategy for like 4 decades. Them claiming the Democrats are racist is super rich since their party is actively trying to repress black voters in several states. Not in the past during the civil rights movement. Like right now, today.
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On September 01 2016 06:49 josephmcjoe wrote:Show nested quote +"It is the Democratic Party that is the party of slavery, the party of Jim Crow and the party of oppression."
- D. Trump, 8/30/16 (absurdity self-explanatory) How is it absurd? Many segregation-era political leaders were democrats, famously George Wallace. As I've heard Rush point out, a larger percentage of Republicans voted for the Civil Rights Act than Democrats.
It's absurd (ok maybe not absurd, but definitely misleading) because it entirely ignores the dynamic through which Democrats and Republicans largely flipped constituencies during the Reconstruction and Jim Crow eras.
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On September 01 2016 06:10 Slaughter wrote:
If you are born here you are a citizen. Period. Which is why the phrase "anchor baby" exists.
Descendance citizenship is much older. Period.
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On September 01 2016 06:52 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2016 06:10 Slaughter wrote:
If you are born here you are a citizen. Period. Which is why the phrase "anchor baby" exists. Descendance citizenship is much older. Period.
But isn't relevant to this discussion due to the 14th amendment.
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On September 01 2016 06:47 CannonsNCarriers wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2016 06:40 oBlade wrote:"Who pays for the wall? We didn't discuss," Trump said when asked by a reporter during a news conference following their meeting in Mexico City. "We did discuss the wall. We didn't discuss payment of the wall. That'll be for a later date." How does this become a "flip flop" and "total Trump capitulation." And how would a "flip flop" even be negative if you don't like the wall? 1) Trump said Mexico would pay for the wall (see campaign memo). Given the chance, he didn't bring it up (or any of the acts laid out in the campaign memo). Position abandoned. He will try to half walk this back today and tomorrow, but it won't work, just like his mass deportation walk back. 2) I can hold the following two positions and remain consistent: A - Trump's wall is foolishness and his plan to make Mexico pay for it is both a lie and foolish B - Trump is a deeply inconsistent flip-flopper who flips positions on a minute by minute basis to appease whoever he is talking to at that moment (see him not bringing up wall)
How did you dismiss the idea that they just didn't talk about it like he said? It's their first ever meeting, he's still a candidate, they probably talked about many things. I doubt your post would be any less negative if he had come out and said he gave them the ultimatum.
The "memo" is not some kind of secret that you revealed him abandoning, it's his publicly advertised position, all the info is on his campaign page.
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On September 01 2016 07:01 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2016 06:47 CannonsNCarriers wrote:On September 01 2016 06:40 oBlade wrote:"Who pays for the wall? We didn't discuss," Trump said when asked by a reporter during a news conference following their meeting in Mexico City. "We did discuss the wall. We didn't discuss payment of the wall. That'll be for a later date." How does this become a "flip flop" and "total Trump capitulation." And how would a "flip flop" even be negative if you don't like the wall? 1) Trump said Mexico would pay for the wall (see campaign memo). Given the chance, he didn't bring it up (or any of the acts laid out in the campaign memo). Position abandoned. He will try to half walk this back today and tomorrow, but it won't work, just like his mass deportation walk back. 2) I can hold the following two positions and remain consistent: A - Trump's wall is foolishness and his plan to make Mexico pay for it is both a lie and foolish B - Trump is a deeply inconsistent flip-flopper who flips positions on a minute by minute basis to appease whoever he is talking to at that moment (see him not bringing up wall) How did you dismiss the idea that they just didn't talk about it like he said? It's their first ever meeting, he's still a candidate, they probably talked about many things. I doubt your post would be any less negative if he had come out and said he gave them the ultimatum. The "memo" is not some kind of secret that you revealed him abandoning, it's his publicly advertised position, all the info is on his campaign page.
Perhaps a (EDIT: 6-second) video presentation would make this more clear.
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On September 01 2016 07:01 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2016 06:47 CannonsNCarriers wrote:On September 01 2016 06:40 oBlade wrote:"Who pays for the wall? We didn't discuss," Trump said when asked by a reporter during a news conference following their meeting in Mexico City. "We did discuss the wall. We didn't discuss payment of the wall. That'll be for a later date." How does this become a "flip flop" and "total Trump capitulation." And how would a "flip flop" even be negative if you don't like the wall? 1) Trump said Mexico would pay for the wall (see campaign memo). Given the chance, he didn't bring it up (or any of the acts laid out in the campaign memo). Position abandoned. He will try to half walk this back today and tomorrow, but it won't work, just like his mass deportation walk back. 2) I can hold the following two positions and remain consistent: A - Trump's wall is foolishness and his plan to make Mexico pay for it is both a lie and foolish B - Trump is a deeply inconsistent flip-flopper who flips positions on a minute by minute basis to appease whoever he is talking to at that moment (see him not bringing up wall) How did you dismiss the idea that they just didn't talk about it like he said? It's their first ever meeting, he's still a candidate, they probably talked about many things. I doubt your post would be any less negative if he had come out and said he gave them the ultimatum. The "memo" is not some kind of secret that you revealed him abandoning, it's his publicly advertised position, all the info is on his campaign page.
God forbid Trump do something reasonable like actually be a statesman when meeting with a foreign dignitary for the first time by focusing on common ground issues instead of the antagonistic ones.
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Um....the modern republican party has been milking the southern strategy for like 4 decades. Them claiming the Democrats are racist is super rich since their party is actively trying to repress black voters in several states. Not in the past during the civil rights movement. Like right now, today.
I definitely disagree with this statement, assuming you're referring to voter ID laws (you may not be). I've seen much of this discussion earlier in this thread, but requiring an ID is all about preventing voter fraud, not a conspiracy to hold down black voters. I simply don't believe that the bank teller is racist, or the liquor store clerk is racist because they make me show ID. It's to ensure I'm eligible to be there and participate.
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On September 01 2016 07:04 CannonsNCarriers wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2016 07:01 oBlade wrote:On September 01 2016 06:47 CannonsNCarriers wrote:On September 01 2016 06:40 oBlade wrote:"Who pays for the wall? We didn't discuss," Trump said when asked by a reporter during a news conference following their meeting in Mexico City. "We did discuss the wall. We didn't discuss payment of the wall. That'll be for a later date." How does this become a "flip flop" and "total Trump capitulation." And how would a "flip flop" even be negative if you don't like the wall? 1) Trump said Mexico would pay for the wall (see campaign memo). Given the chance, he didn't bring it up (or any of the acts laid out in the campaign memo). Position abandoned. He will try to half walk this back today and tomorrow, but it won't work, just like his mass deportation walk back. 2) I can hold the following two positions and remain consistent: A - Trump's wall is foolishness and his plan to make Mexico pay for it is both a lie and foolish B - Trump is a deeply inconsistent flip-flopper who flips positions on a minute by minute basis to appease whoever he is talking to at that moment (see him not bringing up wall) How did you dismiss the idea that they just didn't talk about it like he said? It's their first ever meeting, he's still a candidate, they probably talked about many things. I doubt your post would be any less negative if he had come out and said he gave them the ultimatum. The "memo" is not some kind of secret that you revealed him abandoning, it's his publicly advertised position, all the info is on his campaign page. Perhaps a (EDIT: 6-second) video presentation would make this more clear. https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/771088055080026113
Man Speaks Differently To Enthusiastic Rally Than To Press At Official Meeting (AP/Reuters)
I think a clue that your outrage could be misplaced is actual supporters aren't reacting as you are.
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On September 01 2016 07:11 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2016 07:04 CannonsNCarriers wrote:On September 01 2016 07:01 oBlade wrote:On September 01 2016 06:47 CannonsNCarriers wrote:On September 01 2016 06:40 oBlade wrote:"Who pays for the wall? We didn't discuss," Trump said when asked by a reporter during a news conference following their meeting in Mexico City. "We did discuss the wall. We didn't discuss payment of the wall. That'll be for a later date." How does this become a "flip flop" and "total Trump capitulation." And how would a "flip flop" even be negative if you don't like the wall? 1) Trump said Mexico would pay for the wall (see campaign memo). Given the chance, he didn't bring it up (or any of the acts laid out in the campaign memo). Position abandoned. He will try to half walk this back today and tomorrow, but it won't work, just like his mass deportation walk back. 2) I can hold the following two positions and remain consistent: A - Trump's wall is foolishness and his plan to make Mexico pay for it is both a lie and foolish B - Trump is a deeply inconsistent flip-flopper who flips positions on a minute by minute basis to appease whoever he is talking to at that moment (see him not bringing up wall) How did you dismiss the idea that they just didn't talk about it like he said? It's their first ever meeting, he's still a candidate, they probably talked about many things. I doubt your post would be any less negative if he had come out and said he gave them the ultimatum. The "memo" is not some kind of secret that you revealed him abandoning, it's his publicly advertised position, all the info is on his campaign page. Perhaps a (EDIT: 6-second) video presentation would make this more clear. https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/771088055080026113 Man Speaks Differently To Enthusiastic Rally Than To Press At Official Meeting (AP/Reuters)I think a clue that your outrage could be misplaced is actual supporters aren't reacting as you are.
So who are the Useful Idiots here?
The mainstream Republicans who are discounting everything that Rally Trump says?
XOR
The Trumpkins who are discounting everything that Teleprompter Trump says?
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EPT
