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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 4863

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
August 31 2016 15:33 GMT
#97241
Yeah this Nieto meeting is very interesting. Imagine if it's live and Nieto just reams him and says get out.

Vicente Fox blasted Trump today and then Trump said on Twitter that Fox invited him to visit last year. Smart money is on that being a lie from Trump...
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
August 31 2016 15:38 GMT
#97242
On August 31 2016 23:53 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:


Waiting for this to show up on the front page of Yahoo and CNN...
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-31 15:44:51
August 31 2016 15:44 GMT
#97243
[I]n the two weeks since Bannon took the helm, Trump’s campaign has been rocked by a string of allegations against the media firebrand, including a decades-old domestic-abuse charge. And the bad press isn’t stopping.

The latest of Bannon’s past transgressions to come to light is a comment he made in a five-year-old interview, in which he calls progressive women “dykes.” In a 2011 radio interview with Political Vindication Radio, Bannon said that conservative women—such as Ann Coulter, Michele Bachmann, and Sarah Palin—are an “existential threat to the progressive narrative” and as a result “there are some unintended consequences of the women’s liberation movement. That, in fact, the women that would lead this country would be pro-family, they would have husbands, they would love their children,” he said, as BuzzFeed News first reported. “They wouldn’t be a bunch of dykes that came from the Seven Sisters schools up in New England. That drives the left insane and that’s why they hate these women,” Bannon continued.

[...]

As Bannon’s past has come back to haunt him, the Trump campaign has begun to distance itself from the chief executive. When asked about Bannon and his connections to the controversial “alt-right” movement in an interview on Fox News Sunday this past weekend, Conway remarked that Trump “chose me to manage his campaign, and I report directly to him.” Chairman of the Republican National Committee Reince Priebus evinced a similar ambivalence toward Bannon in an interview with NBC’s Meet the Press. “I think Kellyanne is doing a phenomenal job. I don’t know Steve Bannon, to tell you the truth, very well."


Vanity Fair

{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-31 15:45:33
August 31 2016 15:45 GMT
#97244
So apparently the State Department told Trump and Co. not to travel to Mexico as it was dangerous and not enough time to plan security etc.

He ignored them and is on his way.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 31 2016 15:48 GMT
#97245
Not shocked. Hopefully nothing happens and no one gets hurt. His decision to do this is more likely to put one of his security or staff in danger than him.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France7917 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-31 16:45:39
August 31 2016 16:44 GMT
#97246
On August 31 2016 23:04 Morfildur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 31 2016 22:45 Plansix wrote:
Left and right are horrible flawed way to discuss political opinions. The fact that is so heavily enforced in our culture is due to the way news coverage has leaned into it since the 70s in an effort to increase news ratings.

The Best of Enemies is a documentary on the creation of the “Left vs right” talking pundits with the first of their kind: Gore Vidal and William F. Buckley. It is a good watch for those who want to see how our media got to this “left vs right” style of coverage. Because it didn’t evolve out of no place.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_of_Enemies_(film)


I hate the left and right classification with a passion.

You can easily be pro-LGBT, anti-abortion, pro-guns, pro-marijuana and anti-immigration at the same time. On the left-right spectrum you'd be both left and right simultaneously. Political opinion is a 20-dimensional field and people are far too quick to flatten it to a single dimension, because it makes it much easier to hate on people with different opinions. "If you aren't on the same side as me, you're a bad person. You have a wrong opinion, so you are on the wrong side."

Left-right classification needs to be banned from all political discussions.

Hmm, I think they really do match a certain set of philosophical axioms about how you see the world and politics. The detail of one's opinion is not entirely dictated by those but it doesn't mean they don't exist or are not relevant.

French philosopher Jaques Rancière for example talks about how a society is always in a state of tension between the will to keep intact or strengthen vertical power structures and the will to subvert them. That's a very, very good definition of right and left in my opinion and it transcends cultures and time.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
August 31 2016 17:17 GMT
#97247
Plus the growing body of research on a biological basis for some of the views (in a very approximate way)
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-31 18:04:32
August 31 2016 18:04 GMT
#97248
I would not advocate that we put a Muslim in charge of this nation. I absolutely would not agree with that.

- B. Carson, 9/20/15


[Carson rises in the polls and a Fox News poll on 10/13/15 shows him virtually tied with Trump]


He’s been getting a lot of ink on the Muslims and other things...And I guess people look at that and they probably like it. Some people thought they wouldn’t like it, but they probably do.

- D. Trump, 10/14/15


[San Bernardino shooting happens, 12/3/15]


[We need] a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on.

- D. Trump, 12/7/15


So how often is Trump making policy proposals based on what he believes will get him press coverage? Consider that his position on the Muslim ban is hard to actually determine. What does he believe, and what would he do as president?
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14045 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-31 18:47:25
August 31 2016 18:25 GMT
#97249
You can actually blame the french for the left/right dicomony of argument as they are the ones that invented it during their revolution to group people who sat to the left or right of the speaker.

On September 01 2016 03:04 Doodsmack wrote:
Show nested quote +
I would not advocate that we put a Muslim in charge of this nation. I absolutely would not agree with that.

- B. Carson, 9/20/15


[Carson rises in the polls and a Fox News poll on 10/13/15 shows him virtually tied with Trump]


Show nested quote +
He’s been getting a lot of ink on the Muslims and other things...And I guess people look at that and they probably like it. Some people thought they wouldn’t like it, but they probably do.

- D. Trump, 10/14/15


[San Bernardino shooting happens, 12/3/15]


Show nested quote +
[We need] a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on.

- D. Trump, 12/7/15


So how often is Trump making policy proposals based on what he believes will get him press coverage? Consider that his position on the Muslim ban is hard to actually determine. What does he believe, and what would he do as president?

See this is the problem I have with you. Its hard to tell when you're just being snarky or when you really don't think through anything at all that you post.

this post is you showing how the trump campaign comment of "banning Muslims entering the united states" until we have a policy of how to fix the problem of them coming in came from. You did the research and matched up the times of the comments that led up to it. All you had to do next was to say

"Trump obviously doesn't mean half the shit that he says because everything he says is just bullshit to get free ad space on television. Hes a legitimate danger to the country because hes never said anything of substance that he will do nor anything that hes for or against other then low level rabble rousing."

and you'd have a post where people would look at it and think "hey thats a good point heres what I think about it" or "I don't think that hes made as much points as Obama did during his hope and change campaign".

Your questions are msnbc level commentary. I don't think there is a worse insult.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
August 31 2016 18:54 GMT
#97250
"Trump obviously doesn't mean half the shit that he says because everything he says is just bullshit to get free ad space on television. Hes a legitimate danger to the country because hes never said anything of substance that he will do nor anything that hes for or against other then low level rabble rousing."

"So how often is Trump making policy proposals based on what he believes will get him press coverage? Consider that his position on the Muslim ban is hard to actually determine. What does he believe, and what would he do as president?"


I don't understand why you see those two quotes as profoundly different. Your quote that you suggest is actually pretty hyperbolic and opinionated. Mine asks questions. But you say yours is the better route to generating discussion and getting people to open their minds? Even if my questions were loaded and rhetorical, they would be expressing an opinion and therefore equal to your suggested statement of opinion.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 31 2016 19:01 GMT
#97251
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
August 31 2016 19:18 GMT
#97252
On September 01 2016 04:01 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/benfergusonshow/status/771059657582514177

For the first time in forever. Of course if Hillary ever said she'd be issuing a statement followed by questions, the press might faint from shock.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14045 Posts
August 31 2016 19:24 GMT
#97253
On September 01 2016 03:54 Doodsmack wrote:
"Trump obviously doesn't mean half the shit that he says because everything he says is just bullshit to get free ad space on television. Hes a legitimate danger to the country because hes never said anything of substance that he will do nor anything that hes for or against other then low level rabble rousing."

"So how often is Trump making policy proposals based on what he believes will get him press coverage? Consider that his position on the Muslim ban is hard to actually determine. What does he believe, and what would he do as president?"


I don't understand why you see those two quotes as profoundly different. Your quote that you suggest is actually pretty hyperbolic and opinionated. Mine asks questions. But you say yours is the better route to generating discussion and getting people to open their minds? Even if my questions were loaded and rhetorical, they would be expressing an opinion and therefore equal to your suggested statement of opinion.

OFC you wouldn't understand the difference thats the whole point of someone pointing out the problem they have with your posting.

The first sentence isn't a question its a statement that you added a question mark at the end to cache it in debate like you want to plant the obvious answer in peoples minds as they read it. The second is an ambiguous statement that actually has credibility with the research you did and posted but you throw that away and hide it for no determinable reason. You should be making that sentence the focus of the end of your post and either the result of the questions you ask or the beginning of your summary argument based on the other stuff you posted and put effort into.

And then your last sentence is so basic it blows my mind. Its literally the question the whole campaign is suppose to answer from the primary to the general. You literally just made a post making a point well grounded in statements and logic answered that question in regard to Muslims.

When you give evidence and then ask questions with an obvious answered in light of the evidence your not discussing anything your just giving commentary.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-31 19:30:05
August 31 2016 19:29 GMT
#97254
The press Corp that usually follows Trump in a charter flight was "mistakenly" routed to Phoenix.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21945 Posts
August 31 2016 19:30 GMT
#97255
On September 01 2016 04:29 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The press Corp that usually follows Trump in a charter flight was "mistakenly" routed to Phoenix.

Haha I would love it if that was done on purpose.

Such a Trump thing to do.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 31 2016 19:35 GMT
#97256
On September 01 2016 04:29 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The press Corp that usually follows Trump in a charter flight was "mistakenly" routed to Phoenix.

Of course it was. And the press won’t at all report on how strange that is.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 31 2016 19:39 GMT
#97257
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
August 31 2016 19:40 GMT
#97258
On September 01 2016 04:39 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/sierraclub/status/771068572885975044



now the question becomes is there enough time to make it clear what is and isn't allowed so people actually can vote? cause usually even if the laws get declared unconstitutional it still effects turnout
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-31 19:43:52
August 31 2016 19:42 GMT
#97259
Also I have a feeling an impeachment might be coming. I wish we had the europe thing where people resign

After leaving an obscene voicemail for a state legislator, Maine Gov. Paul LePage has apologized to that lawmaker, waffled on whether he would consider resigning, and stood by his widely criticized comments characterizing drug dealers as overwhelmingly black and Hispanic.

LePage also has told reporters he will never again speak to the press.

You might remember that the Republican governor left a remarkably vulgar message for Democratic Maine Rep. Drew Gattine last week.

LePage has repeatedly characterized Maine's drug problem as being caused by people of color coming into the state to sell drugs — invoking offensive stereotypes and non sequitur references to "white girls" as he does so. Gattine had described these remarks as racially charged and unhelpful.

In response, LePage repeatedly deployed a vulgarity referencing fellatio, called the lawmaker a "little son-of-a-bitch socialist" and said, "I am after you." He instructed Gattine to record the voicemail and make it public. LePage also told reporters he wished it were 1825 so he could shoot Gattine in a duel...

LePage called Gattine and left his obscene voicemail after a TV reporter had asked the governor how he would respond to people who criticized his remarks...



Asked on Wednesday whether he would change any of his behavior moving forward, the governor said, "I will no longer speak to the press ever again after today. And I'm serious. Everything will be put in writing.

"I am tired of being caught — the gotcha moments," he said.




http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/08/31/492096543/maine-governor-apologizes-to-lawmaker-vows-never-to-speak-to-press-again

"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
August 31 2016 20:01 GMT
#97260
how often is it that people "joke" about shooting their political opponents in US politics oO
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
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