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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7890 Posts
On August 31 2016 22:18 zlefin wrote: it does help, ty. and I didn't really mind, I should've indicated I was being somewhat, uh, facetious I think would be the right word, or close to it. Basically not serious and humorous. Geez, I start to feel really guilty. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
The internet in general tends to prize discourse above all things. The opt in nature of discussion puts an expectation that people should just not participate if the discussion bothers them. But that leads to an enviable tactic of attrition and passive aggression in an effort to “win”. We are all guilty of it and it’s a problem in our discussions. But being aware of it helps everyone not take those moments to seriously. Edit: On the subject of being better informed and more open minded, I find that seeking out politically themed reporting to be a poor way to do that. I gain more insight into how the world works and the politics of those areas from podcasts and stories that are not related to politics in any way. 99% invisible, Reply-All, Vs. Science, The Adam Savage Project and Pop Culture Happy Hour generally keep me better informed about the world than any current event reporting. But that information is gleened over a long period of time, rather than in a single day of reading. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6209 Posts
On August 31 2016 22:05 Biff The Understudy wrote: TL is pretty right wing in general I think. At least by european standards. You find VERY few really left wing posters, more centre left/right, or liberals in the american sense. That being said, I have way more patience with right wingers in real life than on TL. Probably because I avoid talking politics with them altogether. And the internet gets the worst out of us. Depends on perspective I guess. What you call centre left or American liberal is still left to me. I can see the difference between for example WhiteDog and other posters but I'd still classify both as left. I guess that's one of the huge flaws with the terms left and right. The fact that christian conservatives, neo nazi's and (classical) liberals are considered right wing shows how bad the term actually is and I guess the same goes for the left. Anyway I'm going off on a tangent. The reason why I follow these threads on TL is that you meet a lot of different points of view which are reasonably well thought out. Before I went to TL I had literally never met a leftist to seriously discuss anything. I live in a village where people vote for a (christian) party because their parents did. So TL gives me the ability to meet different points of view to my own and that was prerty eye opening for me even. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
The Best of Enemies is a documentary on the creation of the “Left vs right” talking pundits with the first of their kind: Gore Vidal and William F. Buckley. It is a good watch for those who want to see how our media got to this “left vs right” style of coverage. Because it didn’t evolve out of no place. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_of_Enemies_(film) | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On August 31 2016 22:45 Plansix wrote: Left and right are horrible flawed way to discuss political opinions. The fact that is so heavily enforced in our culture is due to the way news coverage has leaned into it since the 70s in an effort to increase news ratings. The Best of Enemies is a documentary on the creation of the “Left vs right” talking pundits with the first of their kind: Gore Vidal and William F. Buckley. It is a good watch for those who want to see how our media got to this “left vs right” style of coverage. Because it didn’t evolve out of no place. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_of_Enemies_(film) I hate the left and right classification with a passion. You can easily be pro-LGBT, anti-abortion, pro-guns, pro-marijuana and anti-immigration at the same time. On the left-right spectrum you'd be both left and right simultaneously. Political opinion is a 20-dimensional field and people are far too quick to flatten it to a single dimension, because it makes it much easier to hate on people with different opinions. "If you aren't on the same side as me, you're a bad person. You have a wrong opinion, so you are on the wrong side." Left-right classification needs to be banned from all political discussions. | ||
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Dan HH
Romania9118 Posts
On August 31 2016 22:57 On_Slaught wrote: What does Trump possibly have to gain from going to Mexico? Speaking with a deeply unpopular president on issues that are irreconcilable. As soon as the wall comes up, and who is paying for it, which will happen in the first few minutes, the conversation will be over. They won't butt heads, expect it to be a vague discussion full of pleasantries and appearing to make progress on the irreconcilable issues to score some 'he's a deal maker' points | ||
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a_flayer
Netherlands2826 Posts
For example, I don't think it is wise to decide on which economic (or whatever...) policy to support based on "which way you lean". I understand that these things are often seen as being connected (ie. the left wants to accept immigrants based on the idea that they are suffering and will be better off here, while the right argues that it costs us money and thus we are worse off) but it seems mental to me as a voter to approach any of this in that manner. I can't oversee the action-consequences situation behind these things at all. I would want to vote for someone who I can trust will approach the problem in the most coherent and comprehensive way possible on my behalf. But not only that, I would want them to keep the rest of the nation in their mind as well (not just me), because if the nation is doing well, then I will feel I will be better off as well. That's why these days I go to the voting booths and hand in a blank note (or as I did in one case, drew a giant middle finger on it because I am just an asshole like that - well, I guess it was for my own amusement, really). | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10126 Posts
To be of the Left or to be of the Right is to choose one of the many ways available to people for being an idiot; both are, actually, forms of moral hemiparesis | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
When TV was first invested and regulated by the government, the networks were allowed to use the airwaves for free(the US people as a whole “own” the airwaves and regulate their use). But in return they were required to devote a single section of the day to keeping the public better informed. They could try to make a profit off that section, but they could never totally remove it. That is how modern, broadcast news was created in the US. And it was always when people turned off their TV unless there was something amazing going on. Because most people had read the news paper that morning. Left vs right is a construct, creative my modern media to turn political discussion into something that comes close to pro-wrestling. The pundits that are up there are not the best in their field, but people who are in show business. The goal of the shows they are on isn’t to make the public better informed, but to entertain. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15689 Posts
In the end, what happened? Tim made a stink and caused some trouble, but ultimately, nothing happened. Tim will not have a lasting impact. This is not the first time I have found myself reflecting on something principled, yet ultimately fruitless pertaining to Bernie. Bernie focused too much on principle and never had the sense to make sure his movement was successful. I hope "Our Revolution" is able to do something different, but as long as Weaver in involved, I don't see that happening. On August 31 2016 22:59 ticklishmusic wrote: I read that it's possible Nieto invited both candidates and figured Hillary might show up and Trump wouldn't. I would not be surprised to see him ream Trump for some approval points though, Nieto's ratings are kinda low and that would be a bit of a win. Is there any situation where Trump can benefit? I am having a hard time believing Nieto would say or do anything remotely favorable towards Trump. Trump isn't very popular in Mexico. With Nieto's ratings being what they are, he is in a position where he needs to desperately fight for approval. Publicly shitting on Trump seems like a great idea for him. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
It also fits into the trump plan of dominating the news cycle all the time. I still think Trump is a publicity-eating demon. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On August 31 2016 23:25 zlefin wrote: if nieto shits on trump, that'll be good for trump, as his people take umbrage when he is attacked. It also fits into the trump plan of dominating the news cycle all the time. I still think Trump is a publicity-eating demon. Still, it would be master negotiator and tactician Donald Trump walking right into a reaming by the Mexican president... maybe he tweets something dumb, directly insulting a foreign head of state would be a new occurrence at the very least On August 31 2016 23:31 Nevuk wrote: Trump has a 2% favorable rating in Mexico. Not very popular is a bit of an understatement Trumps' ratings among Latinos in the us is about 20-30%. He's 10x more popular among those who know him! | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Dan HH
Romania9118 Posts
On August 31 2016 23:25 zlefin wrote: if nieto shits on trump, that'll be good for trump, as his people take umbrage when he is attacked. It also fits into the trump plan of dominating the news cycle all the time. I still think Trump is a publicity-eating demon. Given his reactions to even the mildest criticism, I don't see Trump ever willingly subject himself to that even if it were a politically smart decision. I expect this to be very tame. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15689 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On August 31 2016 23:16 Mohdoo wrote: Tim canova is a good example of the poor leadership Bernie has shown throughout his attempt at a revolution. Canova turned out to be inexperienced, inept and just a generally poor candidate. He lacked crucial understanding and ended up getting blown up in the midst of DWS' worst events. Bernie endorsed Tim and didn't make sure Tim was someone that could and would win. Tim helped spread the Bernie message, kind of. For a bit. But he ultimately lost and now it is business as usual. In the end, what happened? Tim made a stink and caused some trouble, but ultimately, nothing happened. Tim will not have a lasting impact. This is not the first time I have found myself reflecting on something principled, yet ultimately fruitless pertaining to Bernie. Bernie focused too much on principle and never had the sense to make sure his movement was successful. I hope "Our Revolution" is able to do something different, but as long as Weaver in involved, I don't see that happening. Honestly, after looking into that district, I didn't see Medusa losing her primary. She's a star example of "hated by the country, loved by the district that elects her" that makes Congress such a poisonous institution these days. But I could definitely see that she was pretty well-liked and very involved within her own district and would be brutally hard to actually unseat. | ||
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