EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 4290
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On July 16 2016 08:39 oBlade wrote: You probably won't like this, but since you asked, I doubt he was talking about US citizens, that's the BBC's interpretation. He also talked about making visiting websites a felony, so I think he's reacting after a tragedy. But testing people's specific beliefs is a practical refinement, and it would be good inasmuch as the rest of the world would follow the example of the US. + Show Spoiler + That is a very thick layer of spin you just laid on. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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oBlade
United States6119 Posts
The BBC article has also already been spun, you just don't know it because you already accepted it as the default. Here's a video of him elaborating his ideas. No, you don't have to watch the whole half hour if you don't want, I've gone through it for you. The relevant material starts around 5:00, or you can go straight to 10:30 to find him telling us what all normal people, including Sean Hannity and the former Speaker of the House, already know, which is that you don't and can't "deport" citizens. (Although, as an aside, we occasionally blow them up with drones.) https://www.facebook.com/newtgingrich/videos/10154305282629197/ + Show Spoiler + In general, I've found it a lot more freeing to just listen with a cool head to what people say directly rather than be fed outrage from a media that has a vested interest in getting you to believe people from the other side want to reopen concentration camps and bring about the end of the world. On July 16 2016 09:19 Doodsmack wrote: But it's good to know you think testing people's religious beliefs in order to deport (will you give us the right answer for us to deport you lol?) is such a good thing that other countries imitating it would be the main benefit. The US is definitely not the country most affected by problems relating to immigration from the Muslim world, but other countries do regularly follow their lead. It'd be a good screening measure. Immigration officials interview people now. And they do lie now, people do make up fake backstories of persecution to get refugee status. Does that mean you want to throw the whole system out? Of course not. But their ideas should be also be factors to consider. So if people believe, for example, that gays and apostates should be executed, I wouldn't consider that a protected religious belief that gives the person an inalienable right to access a country, no. | ||
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Dan HH
Romania9207 Posts
On July 16 2016 10:24 oBlade wrote: or you can go straight to 10:30 to find him telling us what all normal people, including Sean Hannity and the former Speaker of the House, already know, which is that you don't and can't "deport" citizens. When has that ever stopped populism? You can't do half of Trump's platform according to ACLU. Maybe it was simply poor phrasing, it happens even to best orators from time to time, but suggesting that everyone that doesn't interpret "every person here" as 'immigrants only' is spinning the quote is a bit much. | ||
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acker
United States2958 Posts
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/election-update-10-questions-about-where-the-2016-race-stands/ | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 16 2016 08:18 Cowboy24 wrote: Pence is boring, a little weak-willed, and pretty hard-line social conservative; but he is also really popular with the Ted Cruz crowd, is acceptable to the Establishment, is young, and doesn't represent any major dangers. Trump is already pretty centrist (no one really believes he is "strongly" pro-life, or that he doesn't like gay marriage), and that is a huge sore point among the Ted Cruz crowd. Mike Pence can help lock up the Mark Levin demographic, which has been teetering on jettisoning Trump. I'm not entirely convinced that there was a "Ted Cruz crowd" more than just "people who voted for Ted Cruz because he's not Donald Trump". | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
On July 16 2016 12:25 TheYango wrote: I'm not entirely convinced that there was a "Ted Cruz crowd" more than just "people who voted for Ted Cruz because he's not Donald Trump". Oh there was. Well, in addition to the aformentioned #NeverTrump-ers who held their noses to vote for Cruz. The heavily social conservative/evangelical crowd were his demographic. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On July 16 2016 12:25 TheYango wrote: I'm not entirely convinced that there was a "Ted Cruz crowd" more than just "people who voted for Ted Cruz because he's not Donald Trump". As nice as that is to believe Ted Cruz had a very legit crowd. | ||
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acker
United States2958 Posts
On July 16 2016 12:02 LegalLord wrote: RNC convention is about the biggest bump he is going to get. He'll probably lead in the polls for a week until the DNC convention. After those initial bumps, we can only guess where it's going to go. I'm worried that he's two major terrorist attacks away from actual parity. Or maybe Europe splits in two. Or some other catastrophic event that cannot be accounted for. | ||
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
With Pence, Trump plays to win The running mate is experienced, disciplined, conservative – everything the GOP nominee is not. In picking Indiana Gov. Mike Pence as his running mate, Donald Trump showed he’s capable of listening to more than his own gut, that he can forgive past sins and, most of all, that he actually wants to win. A businessman who has carefully built a public image of himself as an instinctive decision maker, Trump clearly labored over this decision, appearing to vacillate as he ran his final choices through a weeklong made-for-TV melodrama of public appearances, private meetings and family get-togethers, all of which were leaked to the media. The final episode that played out over the past 24 hours was, not surprisingly, crammed full of twists and turns: Trump hastily canceling Friday’s scheduled rollout after Thursday’s terror attack in France, pushing back on myriad early reports of Pence’s selection in television interviews Thursday afternoon, then tweeting the news Friday morning (10 minutes before the canceled news conference with Pence was originally set to take place). In the end, though, the final scene belied the setup: a no-drama politician emerging as the winner of Trump’s drama-filled veepstakes. I am of the mind that all these conservatives would have been voting for him over Hillary anyways so I still don't get the Pence pick. “Trump’s profile is not the normal partisan profile. He’s getting 80 percent of Republicans, but has 20 percent holding back,” Black said. “Pence can help with that and maybe even bring in some of those conservative donors who’ve been holding back. Trump is getting a lot of blue-collar Democrats, so he’s less in need of a running mate with crossover appeal.” The pick drew wide praise Friday from mainstream Republicans, with everyone from Speaker Paul Ryan to his predecessor John Boehner and Florida Sen. Rubio, who lashed out at Trump in the final weeks of his own campaign, signaling their support for the choice. Ryan, who has been one of Trump’s toughest Republican critics in the period between his securing the nomination and officially accepting it next week, was notably effusive about Pence—an indication of just how much mainstream Republicans viewed him as the best of Trump’s limited VP options and as a running mate who is, in many ways, the antithesis of the presidential nominee. “Mike Pence comes from the heart of the conservative movement—and the heart of America,” Ryan said in a statement Friday. “I can think of no better choice for our vice-presidential candidate. We need someone who is steady and secure in his principles, someone who can cut through the noise and make a compelling case for conservatism. Mike Pence is that man.” Source | ||
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RenSC2
United States1090 Posts
It also pushes away more independents, especially the types who thought Trump was just pandering to the right on abortion and gay rights issues, but is actually a centrist. Now he's made another clear indication that he isn't a centrist on those issues anymore. Personally, I agree with Templar and think Trump would have been better off with Flynn as a true outsider ticket and a stronger push towards the middle. With Flynn, he could have picked up more independents and even anti-establishment super-left democrats. Conservative Republicans wouldn't be happy, but they'd still pick Trump over Clinton and could rally around a military man for the patriotic push and foreign policy advice. The Pence pick makes my vote for Clinton even easier, but I was already strongly leaning that way. | ||
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Cowboy24
94 Posts
On July 16 2016 08:27 farvacola wrote: 4 years ago, we heard practically the same thing (from some of the same people, no less) about Romney and how none of us liberals actually understood the Republican Party well enough to make an accurate prediction vis a vie voter turnout. History will repeat itself  Paul Ryan as VP had nothing to do with losing 2012, so I fail to see the connection. Anyway: Go to 538 "What it Takes to Flip States in 2016" Keep everything the same, except move the "Non-College Educated White" to 68-68 or above. That is Trump's basic plan. Write off the minority vote because it is already lost. Forget running after the non-existent "moderates" because the vast majority of them are college-educated voters who made their decision months ago and are usually just trolling for the attention when they claim "undecided". Focus on turnout among non-educated Whites and run on a platform specifically appealing to their demographic. They are by far the largest voting bloc and they have relatively low turnout so you can maximize your gains. Minority and college-educate white turnout are already close to maxed (record turnout for Obama among minorities, and college whites always vote in high-numbers). Try to make up any lost ground with white-women by hyper-targeting white men (helpful that he's running against a woman). I'm not saying it will work, but it definitely is a somewhat novel strategy. Ignore the ideological battle of Conservatives vs. Liberals with Moderates in the middle; instead focus on demographic voting; and focus on the largest, most lucrative demographics. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
On July 17 2016 00:27 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: This is amazing. https://twitter.com/EmmyA2/status/754331608036077568 Rofl poor Trump... I wonder who he wanted if it was purely up to him | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28797 Posts
Note that I have no idea whether Trump actually wanted Pence or not, maybe he did. Maybe he's just trying to be ambiguous about this also, to allow those who don't like Pence to have the impression that Trump doesn't either. Or maybe the song selection is just completely random, and he really had to pee. I mean, he was standing next to Palin when she did her rambling endorsement - how could this be any worse? | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
I do not know how to explain what I just watched. It should be easy. Donald Trump introduced Indiana Governor Mike Pence as his running mate. There it is. One sentence. Eleven words. But that doesn’t explain what happened any better than "I spent a few hours letting lysergic acid diethylamide mimic serotonin in my brain" explains an acid trip. What just happened was weird, and it was important. Back in May, EJ Dionne wrote that the hardest thing about covering Donald Trump would be "staying shocked." Watching him, day after day, week after week, month after month, the temptation would be to normalize his behavior, "to move Trump into the political mainstream." But today helped. Donald Trump’s introduction of Mike Pence was shocking. Forget the political mainstream. What happened today sat outside the mainstream for normal human behavior. It began in irony. Before Pence, before Trump, there was an empty podium, and the Rolling Stones blasting through the speakers. It had been widely reported that few top Republicans were willing to serve as Trump’s running mate. It had been widely reported that Trump was unsure about Pence, that he had regretted the decision almost as soon as he made it, that he had sought ways to reverse himself. Hours before the announcement, Trump tweeted that Pence was "my first choice from the start!", which is a thing presidential candidates typically do not need to say. So there we were. Waiting for Trump and Pence to emerge. And what Rolling Stones song did the campaign choose? What did we all hear, over and over again, as we waited for Trump to introduce Mike Pence, his "first choice from the start!"? "You can’t always get what you want..." Source | ||
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